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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from PillowTalk »
    Can't spiders climb walls?


    Currently in MC, no.
    But this is also a feature I'd really like to see implemented.
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from PillowTalk »
    Besides, locking yourself in a box with supplies, even with a 100% impenetrable fortress, would still require you to gather more supplies once you run out.


    You could always have fortified walls with an open interior, and a farm inside, like the good'ole medieval days.

    But even then, you've got to stock up for winter while sustaining yourself.

    Here's hoping Notch puts in flying mobs. :wink.gif:
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Cameras and Journals [Hear me out]
    This is the kind of sketch style that I imagine you'd do in a journal.

    But you know...blockier.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from Superlagg »
    A simple solution would be to put the basic hunger survival mechanics in Hard difficulty, and the deeply complex thirst-disease-heal-etc in a new Very Hard difficulty.


    Best idea in this thread so far. :tongue.gif:
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from PillowTalk »
    Good ideas all around. However, I think we can take it further and add temperature in the mix. On hot days or in hot areas (such as a desert), you should become thirsty more often, and can suffer from heat stroke without water or shade. In the snow, and other extremely cold environments, you need to wear either warm protective clothing, have shelter, or a fire to give you enough warmth so that hypothermia/frostbite don't set in.


    I agree entirely! :iapprove:
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from Swingerzetta »
    ...having hunger AND thirst is, from a game play perspective, redundant. Having two things to monitor and take care of is no more fun than just having one thing, and although it's realistic, I think it would get annoying. In my opinion, hunger is the only element necessary for a hardcore survival game.


    If anything I'd think that water should get the priority, as even going without it for a single day can be extremely detrimental. But really, like coal and red dust being in tonics, it's a means of forcing the player to make critical survival decisions, especially with a reduction of inventory. It also makes the creation of arable farmland a much more considerable investment, and encourages players to congregate where there is water.

    I do get what you're saying though, and the thought of just having a "sustenance" meter is what first crossed my mind, but a lot of dynamics are lost if you reduce it to a single requirement.

    Quote from Swingerzetta »

    I like that mushrooms are used in curing disease, since mushroom and mushroom soup is rather difficult to aquire, compared to pork or wheat. I think that other food types could work well at providing temporary boosts.

    The main reason I support hunger is the same reason why I support food spoilage... It forces the player to plan ahead. Building farms is now a necessary part of Survival, and this, if you ask me, is completely appropriate.

    (Although food spoilage AND hunger would just be annoying)


    I think food spoilage would be interesting as well. If anything this idea for thirst, hunger, sickness, and spoilage is to step away from the "Behold my glorious and impenetrable self-sustaining fortress" and more towards, "live off the land to survive"
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Phases of the moon
    Nothing but cool ideas in this thread. :iapprove:
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    Quote from ConflagratedCanine »
    You should NEVER immobilize a player unless it's for a very short period of time.


    Trust me, if they're dehydrated, starving, AND sick, it will be a short period of time. :Skeleton:

    Quote from ConflagratedCanine »

    In addition, the system should be rather lenient, so it's not a constant nag to the player while they're moving around.


    I'd imagine making it something reasonable, like 1 action (swinging a tool, moving a tile, jumping, swimming, etc) being on a 1/1000 scale with consumption. That is, you'd have to perform 1,000 actions before losing 1 thirst and hunger.

    But that's something that would really need play-testing to balance appropriately.
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on Cameras and Journals [Hear me out]
    It could also be that you use a certain tool (say, a pencil, or quill pen) in conjunction with a book, and when you do you create a sketched image of whatever you are observing.

    Sorta like Darwin in the Galapagos.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Steam Publishing
    Quote from PillowTalk »
    I know that publishing a game on Steam requires the developer to purchase a license, which is generally quite steep (roughly $10,000).


    Doesn't sound tough for Notch: he quite literally made that much money in just the past 48 hours! :iapprove:
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Hunger, thirst, and survival
    "I'd rather make the game too difficult than too easy"
    -Notch

    Running along with the very words of Notch in mind, I have a few suggestions for Survival mode that I think should be considered. Some of these ideas have already been tossed around, but I felt it would be best to post a new topic to avoid resurrecting dead threads.

    This suggestion pertains to the Alpha version of Survival mode.

                                                    WARNING: READING AHEAD



    = = = = = = =Hunger and Thirst= = = = = = =

    Main point of support: All of these ideas, primarily hunger and thirst, are only present on the Hard difficulty setting.

    Many say that their experience of Survival mode would be ruined if they had to constantly leave their mine to get food, as it would convolute the process of building. But remember: building is not the primary goal of this mode, but a benefit of it. Survival is the real goal of the game, and we build structures because it protects us from the environment and its fauna.

    The idea partially serves to make farming much more useful, but primarily to bring in other survival elements to challenge players. This way people who enjoy Survival as it is now can still enjoy its current form by playing on normal difficulty, and those wanting a more engaging/challenging/realistic/torturous experience of survival can play on the Hard difficulty. Everybody can have the experience they desire. :Notch:

    Furthermore, the game mode is called survival, and as such I think hunger and thirst would complete the list of fundamental necessities for survival.
    -Food
    -Water
    -Medicine
    -Shelter

    - - - -How Hunger and Thirst (Could) Work- - - -

    Hunger would be represented with 10 miniature bread icons located above the health. [The air/bubble bar would be moved up above it]
    Thirst would be represented with 10 miniature water-droplet icons located above armor.

    1 point of hunger is lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.
    1.5 points of thirst are lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.

    Beyond that, hunger and thirst degrade in a manner similar to tool usage. In this case a "use" is considered to be any action the player takes within the world. Moving 1 tile. Jumping. Swinging a tool. Placing a block.
    Any actions taken in the inventory would have no effect on sustenance degradation. Just how many "uses" are within a point of hunger and thirst, I leave to Notch.

    [It has also crossed my mind that this would inhibit the rate of griefing, as they would need to spend time and effort sustaining themselves]

    - - - -Effects of Starvation and Dehydration- - - -

    Starvation would take effect when the player has 5 points of hunger.
    Dehydration would take effect when the player has 7 points of thirst.

    If you are only affected by one of these, you will have the following symptoms:
    -Slow movement speed
    -Slow use of tools
    -Slow rate of healing (from resting, which is discussed in the next segment)

    If you are suffering from both of these, you will have the following symptoms:
    -(Even) Slower movement speed, staggered footsteps
    -Slower use of tools
    -Slower rate of healing
    -Hallucinations [blurred vision, flowers might look like pieces of pork, some tiles look like water until you approach them, friendly mobs might appear as hostile ones and vice versa until approached, hearing the sounds of friendly/enemy mobs]
    -[Other effects? There's room for ideas]

    If your Hunger or Thirst reach zero points, you die


    - - - -Other Ideas to Compliment Hunger and Thirst- - - -

    First off, a simple one: make sunlight distinguished from any other source of light, such that plant-life will only grow when it has the proper lighting. Trees should also only yield 2-3 saplings.
    You'll see how this kicks in at the end.

    Secondly, cut the player-inventory (including item-slots along the bottom) in half.

    Healing items would need to be introduced in the form of bandages [made from cotton, silk-string, papyrus] and tonics (discussed further on).
    You could also heal from having rest (rest = you are not damaged for 1/2 of the day), regaining somewhere between 1 to 2 hearts per period of rest. Bandages would only serve to increase the effects of rested-healing, and would not grant instantaneous health.
    Tonic would grant instantaneous health, and fight/cure different forms of sickness [covered further on, and also with the hope that Notch puts in venomous creatures/plants]


    Food items would grant no healing upon the user, and only refill hunger.
    Mushroom soup would restore 2 points of hunger.
    Cooked pork would restore 1.5 points.
    Bread, 1 point.
    Uncooked pork, .5 . However, eating uncooked meat would run a chance of contracting sickness.


    Water could be contained in a bowl, or in a bucket. Collecting water in a bowl functions the same way as a bucket.
    However: a bucket of water would no longer carry a spring of water (or lava, for that matter). Rather, a single pale of water could only take/carry 1/4 of the water contained in a spring (which implies that you need 4 buckets of water to create a single spring).
    A bowl would carry the smallest measurable quantity of water .
    Drinking the water contained in a bucket restores 2 points of thirst.
    Drinking from a bowl restores 1 point of thirst.
    If you find water and right-click with your bare-hands, you drink the water in slurps, and recover thirst as you would drinking from a bowl.

    Water quality would also be present.
    Generally speaking, any body of water that is touching terrain is impure.
    You can still drink the water, but you have some percentile chance of becoming sick.
    Purifying water is as simple as cooking a pale or bowl of water over a fire.


    Sickness can be contracted from eating uncooked meat, drinking impure water, being in extreme elements for prolonged periods (desert, tundra), and being attacked by a creature that is either venomous or diseased. It comes in three forms: general-sickness, venom/poison, and disease.

    Overcoming general-sickness [from uncooked meat, impure water, or being randomly contracted] would depend on your overall well-being. That is to say, your percentile-chance at overcoming the illness (as well as prevention of contracting it) in each period of rest [half-day] is based on your current health, hunger, and thirst.

    Or, put simply as an equation: [( Health + Hunger + Thirst ) / 30 ] x 100 = % Chance of Aversion/Recovery

    However, drinking any Tonic will help fight general-sickness.
    General-sickness can be spread between any entities within the game (meaning you can catch it from mobs, and other players).
    Otherwise, a nice hot bowl of mushroom soup and a night indoors ought to set you straight.

    Overcoming venom/poison [from something such as a Spider's bite] is different, in that your percentile-chance of recovery is reduced (the degree of which depends on the poison), such that you must either cure the illness or outlast it. Venoms/Poisons would have a specified duration period for which they last. Some might last a day, some for more. To be reasonable, I'd say the most potent venom/poison would last 10 days.
    Some tonics may reduce the venom to a general sickness, another may increase your chance of overcoming it, and a few can outright cure it.

    Overcoming disease [from something such as a Zombie's bite] absolutely requires Tonic to cure. There is no percentile-chance of recovery for disease. When I say disease, think of being bitten by a Komodo Dragon [though to be fair, a Komodo Dragon carries disease AND has venom. How vicious is that!].
    More so, diseases require the strongest of Tonics to cure. Even then, some of them only reduce the disease to a sickness. Similar to general-sickness, some diseases can be spread between entities within the game, making them extremely dangerous.

    General-sickness would cause a loss of 1 Thirst during every period of rest.
    Venom/Poison would cause a loss of 1 Thirst and 1 Hunger during every period of rest.
    Disease would cause a loss 1.5 Thirst, 1.5 Hunger, and 1 Health every period of rest.
    It is possible to be affected by any combination of sicknesses simultaneously


    Tonics are remedies which imbue different properties of healing, depending on what they are concocted from. They generally have 3 ingredients of which to combine:
    -Purified water (in a bowl)
    -A herbal element: flower, sapling, mushroom.
    -A mineral element: coal [it's really charcoal that can purify, but this is close enough], red dust. However, a mineral is not necessary to make all tonics, it just makes stronger tonics.

    And to save some time and detail, here is a graph illustrating an idea of the effectiveness of tonic combinations.



    In the case of the Brown Mushroom and Red Dust tonic, it deals with disease and venom by reducing it to general sickness. Red Mushroom and Red Dust outright cures diseases and venoms.


    With all of these things in mind, if you are starved, dehydrated, AND sick you are exhausted, and become immobile. You can do everything except move. At this point though it is likely that if you can't "McGuyver" your way out, or find help from another, you are going to die.

    = = = =What does it do for the game?= = = =

    This, coupled with the idea of Biomes and Seasons would complete the lego-frontiersman feeling that Minecraft is inclined towards.

    -With trees withering in the winter (meaning no saplings) as well as exposed farm-land being covered with snow (meaning no wheat), players will need to judiciously portion their time and resources and how they choose to invest them. Before winter arrives you'd better stock up on food, firewood, and medicine, because all of it will be nigh attainable once the snow starts to come down.

    To that degree the usage of coal, red dust, and saplings as resources for health are entirely intentional. It is intended to create a push and pull between general survival, and expansion/construction.

    -Exploration becomes a dangerous but necessary endeavor.

    -Cooperation among players greatly increases the chances of survival, encouraging people to work with one another. So goes the saying, "Many hands makes a light load."

    The End!
    Thanks for reading all that text, and if you have any thoughts please share them!

    If you have ideas on how to make survival mode be about survival, share'em!

    If you see ideas you don't like or think need changing, speak your mind!
    Just don't start any unnecessary flaming!
    :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV: :VV:
    Posted in: Alpha - Wish lists
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    posted a message on WEAPONS MASTER LIST! - New and Improved
    There should also be flails, similar to the one used by the "Ball-and-Chain" Soldier of Link's Awakening.


    -Hold right-click to start swinging the flail
    -The flail cannot attack unless it is swinging
    -The player cannot move while attacking with the flail, only while swinging it, or doing nothing with it.

    -When the player starts swinging the flail, it circles around their head 1-tile adjacent to them, at a rate of 1 revolution per second.
    -If the flail collides with a terrain object, it stops.

    -When swinging, if the player presses/holds the left mouse button, it begins the attack sequence.
    -When the attack sequence begins, the flail will now circle the player at 2 revolutions per second, for 3 revolutions. The player cannot move during this time.
    -The longer the l.m.b. is held, the further the chain of the flail extends when released, up to a maximum of 4 tiles.
    -If the l.m.b. is clicked (and not held), this will only initiate the sequence, but not the attack itself.
    -After the attack sequence is finished, the revolutions return to normal.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Repairing tools with other tools
    Quote from mightyvvhitey »
    personally, i think you should be able to build a "hammer" item that lets you repair. the hammer only repairs items that are the same grade as it. so iron hammer for iron tools, diamond hammer for diamond tools. ect.


    This.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on POLL 3D
    I would use it if it were coded properly.

    The spacing between both images of a single body is not properly spaced at anything beyond a short distance.

    If Notch could fix this though, I'd play only in 3D.

    [And yes, I've got the 3D-specs]
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Biome and Season Ideas
    Great ideas Pikimon, I like them all.


    I must also say, in my opinion, biomes and seasons are further reasons that sustenance should be required.

    The mode is survival, and Notch has said he'd rather have the game be too hard than too easy.

    But, y'know, something reasonable like you have to consume 1 bucket of water and 3 food items each day.
    3 food items isn't hard to get, hell, just by turning around sometimes I'll have 6+ pigs appear.

    But when seasons come around, o-hoho, the game gets fun my friend. :iapprove:
    Posted in: Suggestions
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