It's one of my favorite games of all time, and it has the potential to become, IMO, the perfect game. Yes, it has a very steep learning curve, but it's absolutely worth it. You know in the Matrix how somebody says after a while, you don't see the symbols anymore, just people or whatever they represent? It's like that with DF. I think if you stick with it, you'll learn to appreciate it--if you haven't thrown up your hands and walked away yet, you have the potential.
Also, if not for DF, Minecraft probably wouldn't exist. It was the first inspiration before Infiniminer.
Quote from steric »
Are you on the DF forums? Is it as useful as the minecraft forums?
You can't even compare the two--the DF community is far better than Minecraft's. They're far more mature and helpful (probably because of the steep learning curve that weeds out the morons and the impatient) than most communities.
Also, that picture of learning curves is originally about EVE Online (which I also play), though it applies very well to DF. Gotta give credit where it's due, though.
There is a disturbing lack of understanding of Minecraft's history in this thread.
Dwarf Fortress was the original inspiration for what is now Minecraft. The 3D blocky visual style is from Infiniminer, yes, but the original idea came from Dwarf Fortress.
If you don't believe me, read the quotes:
There was a thread on it on the TIGSource forums about the same time as I was playing around with 3d tile based builder game from an isometric perspective. It was supposed to be a lightweight Dwarf Fortress. Kinda like if DF and Rollercoaster Tycoon had a baby. I made a blog post on the origins of Minecraft here.
The visual style of Infiniminer is a really interesting one, since it both leaves a lot up to the imagination, and is highly representative (if a bit iconic in style), and suits tiny development teams very well. Not to mention it makes it possible to display millions of blocks at high framerates!
"The original idea was to make a game similar to Dwarf Fortress in tone, but with a Rollercoaster Tycoon type interface," Persson explained. "As I was playing around with a first person mode I stumbled upon a game called Infiniminer that used low-res textures in a 3D environment, and I realized that that was a perfect fit for both my artistic skills and the type of game I wanted to make.
I really have no idea, but I do know Java can't handle moving light sources.
Try to have some clue what you're talking about before posting next time, kthxbye.
Quote from BC_Programming »
I've never understood the impression that Minecraft has "retro" graphics to begin with.
It doesn't have "retro" graphics, they're just simple graphics made by a programmer, not an artist. Most of the people calling it "retro" probably weren't alive yet when actual retro games were being made, so they think if it's doesn't look like Black Ops, it's "retro".
Minecraft looks nothing like any retro game I've ever played and I've been playing games since the early 80s. A block-based engine and low-res textures doesn't make something "retro".
Also, where are you guys pulling half these arguements from?
"Peaceful was for debugging!"
"Peaceful was a stage in development!"
Took me about 20 seconds in google to find this in an interview:
For example, when I added more complex game rules to the basic game engine, it turned out a lot of people really liked the free building from the engine test, so I kept it around and called it ‘creative mode.’”
There you go directly from Notch--creative mode was just an engine test. It was never intended to be just a pure building sandbox.
Minecraft is not based off dwarf fortress it based off infiniminer
If you're going to say stuff, try to know what you're talking about first.
It took me about 10 seconds to find this:
Q: What inspired you to create MineCraft?
A: I left my day job as a flash game programmer, and wanted to do something accessible and fun. I was playing Dwarf Fortress at the time, and got the idea to do a similar game, except with an interface similar to that in Rollercoaster Tycoon. I was implementing an experimental first person mode when I found Infiniminer via the Tigsource forums, and I fell in love with the visual style.
DF was the original inspiration, but Infiniminer inspired the visual style. You are wrong. Good day, sir.
I love "surviving" in minecraft, not that you actually ever really do that. I guess it is mainly the lack of resources in the early game that I love. You can't just say, hmm, I need some iron, I guess I'll go to my chest with 17 stacks of iron ingots and get some. I don't know why, but I love the feeling of fighting to carve a foothold. That doesn't really happen much in minecraft though- you can usually be pretty well set up a couple days in, once you've found a good cave system. So I had some ideas on how to enhance the survival aspect of minecraft.
Absolutely agree. The game is too easy as it is. Struggling to surviving in a hostile world is fun. If you don't like it, go play sissy peaceful mode.
Quote from Obedai »
First, the most obvious thing to do is to add hunger. Simple really.
I think this should be in regular vanilla survival mode. I mean, it's called survival mode.
Quote from Obedai »
Fourth, Make monsters essentially unkillable in groups. An individual monster should be a tough fight that requires preparation. Monsters would have to spawn less densely for this to work obviously.
Same with this.
Quote from Obedai »
Seventh, bows should not shoot rapid fire. You should have to hold down the mouse click to pull back the string, then release. The longer you pull, the more power the shot has. This way, bows are less overpowered, since they are not sniper machine guns, but realistic bows, that don't hit the same spot every time and take time to shoot.
Same with this.
Quote from Obedai »
Eighth, Animals should run away from you, and run quickly. You actually have to hunt them, they don't just come to you.
Same with this.
Quote from Obedai »
Ninth, we need daytime enemies. The easiest thing to do would be hostile wild animals, like bears. That would be intimidating, beating back an enormous bear that could kill you in one swipe.
Same with this.
Quote from Obedai »
Tenth, the possibility of death from exposure. Maybe you would have to drink water as well as eat, and if you are in a desert and don't drink enough, you die very fast. If you are in a cold place, you need clothes (armor, or maybe just regular clothes made of wool). Rain and snow would intensify cold effects, and to dry off you need fire or sunlight.
Same with this.
Quote from Obedai »
Last, no more healing with food. Food would just be for hunger. Instead, your health will regenerate slowly over time if you bandage yourself, or you can heal instantly using very resource-intensive potions.
Same with this.
The rest would be neat in a mod, but probably not in the main game.
Of course, there's always Dwarf Fortress, which is about as similar (ie: not very), far superior (but much harder to get into), and it was the main inspiration for Minecraft.
This thread is off-topic, though. I wouldn't be surprised if the poster was someone making the game.
I want hostiles to walk through my caves, but I dont want to be zombie-seiged, so I play on easy. By the way: Peaceful is how it meant to be. It was used to be a more creative game, not a adventure game.
Wrong, it was originally intended to be similar to Dwarf Fortress. He also said that he'd rather the game to be too hard rather than too easy. Read an early interview--he said he wanted to make Dwarf Fortress except simpler and with graphics.
Creative mode only existed because he was working on the basic engine before he started on the main game.
Despite what many people think, the game was meant to be challenging, not just a Lego sim.
I've done this before. Hell, I delete and remake worlds almost every time I play.
Sometimes I intentionally go really far from my spawn point in a random direction so if I die I have to effectively start over. If I happen to find an old fortress, I'll pretend it's ruins that I've discovered. Sometimes I don't really build at all; I just dig a small shelter for the night and then move on at sunrise.
I agree that it is fun. People get way too attached to stuff in Minecraft. Delete your world and start over and try something new--it's fun.
Quote from Shaniqua Rotanesha »
You can't be nomadic because you eventually will run out of inventory space which means you need to make a chest which can't be carried with you so you have to stay around your chest or you will lose it if you go out to far. So eventually you gonna be forced to make a base. This is why everyone always ends up making a base.
Who says you have to carry all that stuff with you? O_o Just carry what you need.
I know they're pretty different and it's kind of silly to compare them, but they do have their similarities, and DF was a major inspiration for MC.
Here's what each developer is currently working on.
Notch - maps (they sound cool, don't get me wrong)
Toady One - Aside from some general busy-ness, I managed to bump my head up against the wall a bit trying to get the dungeons and catacombs and sewers and underground layers and topography and rivers and buildings to all play nice together, but I think I've got it working now. I need to mess with the dungeon layout a little more and then that'll finally be done. World gen tracks crops of the dead now, numerically and by cause for each site, so if all the starved dead from the last hundred years in a city happen to be raised, it can only happen once, and the catacombs should reflect their populations correctly.
Yeah, it's a survival game. Find a way to survive.
So much this. People that expect their creations to be permanent and to be able to build them in complete peace really annoy me. This game was never intended to be a Lego sim.
With so much stone available, you shouldn't have made buildings out of wood. That's the lesson you should learn from this.
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Also, if not for DF, Minecraft probably wouldn't exist. It was the first inspiration before Infiniminer.
You can't even compare the two--the DF community is far better than Minecraft's. They're far more mature and helpful (probably because of the steep learning curve that weeds out the morons and the impatient) than most communities.
Also, that picture of learning curves is originally about EVE Online (which I also play), though it applies very well to DF. Gotta give credit where it's due, though.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Quest:_Quest_for_the_Crown
I remember that game! I played it on my PC jr. :biggrin.gif:
And yeah, apparently most of the people that play Minecraft are kids--I can't believe people are listing Xbox and PS2 games as their first games. O_O
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Dwarf Fortress was the original inspiration for what is now Minecraft. The 3D blocky visual style is from Infiniminer, yes, but the original idea came from Dwarf Fortress.
If you don't believe me, read the quotes:
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Try to have some clue what you're talking about before posting next time, kthxbye.
It doesn't have "retro" graphics, they're just simple graphics made by a programmer, not an artist. Most of the people calling it "retro" probably weren't alive yet when actual retro games were being made, so they think if it's doesn't look like Black Ops, it's "retro".
Minecraft looks nothing like any retro game I've ever played and I've been playing games since the early 80s. A block-based engine and low-res textures doesn't make something "retro".
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Took me about 20 seconds in google to find this in an interview:
There you go directly from Notch--creative mode was just an engine test. It was never intended to be just a pure building sandbox.
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If you're going to say stuff, try to know what you're talking about first.
It took me about 10 seconds to find this:
DF was the original inspiration, but Infiniminer inspired the visual style. You are wrong. Good day, sir.
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The 3D block-based visual aspect yes, but DF was the first inspiration as far as the concept.
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Absolutely agree. The game is too easy as it is. Struggling to surviving in a hostile world is fun. If you don't like it, go play
sissypeaceful mode.I think this should be in regular vanilla survival mode. I mean, it's called survival mode.
Same with this.
Same with this.
Same with this.
Same with this.
Same with this.
Same with this.
The rest would be neat in a mod, but probably not in the main game.
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This thread is off-topic, though. I wouldn't be surprised if the poster was someone making the game.
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Wrong, it was originally intended to be similar to Dwarf Fortress. He also said that he'd rather the game to be too hard rather than too easy. Read an early interview--he said he wanted to make Dwarf Fortress except simpler and with graphics.
Creative mode only existed because he was working on the basic engine before he started on the main game.
Despite what many people think, the game was meant to be challenging, not just a Lego sim.
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Sometimes I intentionally go really far from my spawn point in a random direction so if I die I have to effectively start over. If I happen to find an old fortress, I'll pretend it's ruins that I've discovered. Sometimes I don't really build at all; I just dig a small shelter for the night and then move on at sunrise.
I agree that it is fun. People get way too attached to stuff in Minecraft. Delete your world and start over and try something new--it's fun.
Who says you have to carry all that stuff with you? O_o Just carry what you need.
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Here's what each developer is currently working on.
Notch - maps (they sound cool, don't get me wrong)
Toady One - Aside from some general busy-ness, I managed to bump my head up against the wall a bit trying to get the dungeons and catacombs and sewers and underground layers and topography and rivers and buildings to all play nice together, but I think I've got it working now. I need to mess with the dungeon layout a little more and then that'll finally be done. World gen tracks crops of the dead now, numerically and by cause for each site, so if all the starved dead from the last hundred years in a city happen to be raised, it can only happen once, and the catacombs should reflect their populations correctly.
Just made me lol, thought I'd share.
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So much this. People that expect their creations to be permanent and to be able to build them in complete peace really annoy me. This game was never intended to be a Lego sim.
With so much stone available, you shouldn't have made buildings out of wood. That's the lesson you should learn from this.