@taschneide I don't think CTM plugins would be a thing. I don't feel like installing a mod that causes me to get a message whenever I place a wool. No point, to lazy to install. Installing mods for your own use is something different then playing with it on the server already.
The point was not "get a message when you place a wool". The point was "potential central CTM server with easy-to-access popular maps publicly available" a la RMCT. "Get a message when you place a wool" is a possible feature, but I was talking about an easy place for people to play a CTM map together without home-hosting or buying a server, a place for new people to get into CTM maps, a sort of unofficial face of the community. Heck, we could have a "mapmaker" subsection where all the people who like to do all their work with VoxelSniper, WorldEdit, etc. can collaborate on making maps more easily. It's something we don't have, and could potentially benefit greatly from in my mind.
So, I just got into an interesting discussion on Heliceo's thread... About 2 years ago, someone called SeeD419 created a Bukkit plugin intended to manage CTM maps - stuff like detect if the correct block is on the monument and so on. Now, SeeD419 is back, and expressing interest in continuing the project. Of course, it's significantly easier to detect blocks on a monument these days, what with /testforblock and all, but it raises an interesting question: Is there any way to improve CTMs that can't be done in vanilla, but that a Bukkit plugin could help with?
One prominent example of a plugin that supports a community massively is the RMCT/Race for Wool community's AutoReferee plugin. It basically does what it sounds like it should do. Now, maybe we don't need a plugin all that much for ingame functionality, although it might be cool to have a plugin that detects wool obtaining and placement. Where I really see the potential in this is in terms of meta-CTM. Basically, we could do what the RMCT community does, and have a server set up for the express purpose of hosting CTM maps. AutoReferee has the capability to run multiple RFW matches at once on the same server... We could end up with something like (and maybe this is a bad example) the Hypixel server, which makes adventure maps like Herobrine's Mansion publicly available to the masses. This leads me to a...
Community Question:
What would you think of a Bukkit plugin that manages CTM maps? Could it potentially lead to something like what the RFW community has? Would this be a good thing? I think that if it works, it could grow the community by a fair amount - which may be a good or bad thing. But seeing as we're getting towards the end of summer, and I anticipate a bunch of people dropping out of the community to focus on schoolwork, I think it'd be nice to have some fresh faces. Thoughts?
So, to all scrubs that weren't in the Limited Engagement show tonight, you guys missed out. To all who were, thanks for coming by, I had a great time, and I know the guys from LtdEngage too!
To tasch... I thinks that's actually a great 1.7 solution. You can testfor the amount of players every now and then, and make the amount of clocks running compatible to that... Goes up to 15 players, should be enough I think.
oh, I always seem to forget about LE until it's too late
and yeah, the way I was thinking of for making that system work for an arbitrarily large number of people would be insanely slow the more people there were... it would work fine for small numbers of people, but might still be a bit slow. It basically involved testing to see if any player had a PlayerNumber greater than 1, and then decrementing everyone's PlayerNumber by 1. That way, a single "/effect @a[score_PlayerNumber_etc]" command block could test a player and apply the effect if they needed it, and then shift to the next player up the PlayerNumber list (actually shifting the entire list, rather than changing the numbers in the command-block setup). Every time the list is shifted, add 1 to another total, and when you have reached the end of the list, shift the list back to the start using that total. The problem, of course, is that the one command-block assembly needs to test each PlayerNumber before it can start over, and since the shifting has to be done after the /effect test is done, it can't all be done instantaneously.
...I suppose the process could be sped up by combining the two approaches... Set up 5 of those command-block setups, testing PlayerNumbers 1-5, and when it comes time to shift the list, it shifts the list by 5. That way it processes 5 players at once. It will still get slower the more players there are, but only at 1/5th the speed.
It seems to me like an elegant solution, but it's easily screwed up. What if a player disconnects from the server during the test? Things fall apart; you probably will end up with two people with the same PlayerNumber. It's probably just easier to put around 5 of those single-testing setups in your map and say "Multiplayer is not supported beyond 5 players". (Really, multiplayer won't be supported beyond 5 players anyway; it would be hard to balance loot.)
Basically, I'm trying to test if a certain player has an effect, clear that effect, and then give him a different one. Problem is, my map is in 1.7 and I want this to be multiplayer friendly. Does anyone have any idea how to do this?
See, the only issue there is "multiplayer friendly". Otherwise, you just need to /effect @p [effect] 0, hook up a comparator, and have its output activate more command blocks to give a different effect. In multiplayer, though, things get a bit more complicated. You need to have the command blocks that give the other effect only give the effect to players who had the first effect. This is hard to accomplish: The /effect command can't test for NBT tags like status effects already on players, and neither can the /scoreboard command. What you have to do is give each player something that the /effect command CAN test for. Namely, a scoreboard value.
Each player has to have a different value for a scoreboard objective (let's call it PlayerNumber). Player A has a score for PlayerNumber of 1, player B has a score of 2, etc. Then, you have a series of command blocks, one for each player. Each set of command blocks needs one command block with /effect @a[score_PlayerNumber=1,score_PlayerNumber_min=1] [effect you want to take from the player] 0. Then add a comparator as an output from that command block, which leads to a command block that gives the effect you want the player to end up with (the command in this case should be /effect @a[score_PlayerNumber=1,score_PlayerNumber_min=1] [effect you want to give the player] [duration] [amplifier]). Then just set up one of those with a different "score_PlayerNumber=x,score_PlayerNumber_min=x" for each potential player your map could have. Naturally, this limits how many people can be playing the map in any given playthrough, but it's rare to have more than 4 or 5 players playing the map in one playthrough anyway.
Hang on, though. I've got an idea for how to get around this... let me look into it and get back to you. Assuming you really want the capability for more than any arbitrary number of players to be playing your map.
I've been working on a map recently, and whenever I work on aesthetics I always seem to have difficulty with color combinations and what looks good with certain blocks. So my question is which block combinations are more pleasing to the eye?
There are a lot of color combinations that work well. There are also a lot that don't. Got any examples or ideas?
BTW still haven't figured out how to get orange wool particles on /paticle blockcrack... wiki says "blockcrack_(id|(data<<12))" so uhhh... what does "data<<12" mean to do >_>
Well, I just did a little bit of testing. You know what the command "/particle blah [etc.]" outputs? "Unknown effect name (blah)". But do you know what the command "/particle blockcrack_35_2 [etc.]" outputs? "An unknown error occurred while attempting to perform this command". Which means that "blockcrack_35_2" is being recognized as a particle that exists, but it can't create the particle for some unknown reason. Which to me screams "submit this as a bug". If you're lucky, they'll see it and fix it for 1.8.
Also, everyone else may be interested in this: I now have access to a laptop, after over a week without anything but my phone. Also, this computer is mine, not my father's, as was the case for the preceding week. What this all means is that I can resume progress on any and all mapmaking efforts in which I was previously involved. Yay!
@CQ: As I was reading Rubisk's reply, I thought of something. While all these new features can make maps much more interesting, new features are not a substitute for good design. My biggest worry about CTM as a genre is that mapmakers, in trying to fit in all of these features, will lose sight of what CTM really is. Don't neglect the soul of your map just to put in all of these fancy command block gimmicks. Of course, it's best if you can add cool gimmicks to already-good design, but these new features are mostly just icing on the cake, and if the cake itself tastes bad then nobody will eat it.
In terms of the Pantheon speedrun, the ProjectCTM thread specifies in the rules: "Do not leave the boundaries of the map and go into normally generated Minecraftterrain." To me, this means going on the map ceiling is totally okay. I don't think item duplication is ever okay.
Oh, and by the way people, I'm officially on my way to college. Don't know how involved in the community I'll be able to be from here on out, but I'll do my best. After all, I've still got so much unfinished business to attend to.
Just want to ask what tools do you use to make these maps? Because certainly McEdit can't make all of it.
I mostly use MCEdit, with occasional switching to WorldEditWrapper (including the Terraforming Toolkit craftscripts). You can do a lot with MCEdit filters. Everything else, I do ingame; I also know enough about NBT tags that the 1.8 give command and the NBTEdit filter are sufficient for custom loot.
ohai lots of mobs, MH, and gameplay discussion... very good thx, I wanna make sure to do those things right this time... In other news, dancing armor stand nonsense should make a monument area pretty funny. Maybe they start dancing or jumping after you complete the monument or something... I can't decide how crazy I want the congratulations to be at the end though... Fireworks, big letters in the sky, particles everywhere, text spam, 50 flaming supercharged creepers that have 26 minute fuses... should be pretty hilarious
I just had visions of a monument where, when completed, the wools all start jumping around. Relatedly, I just had the most trolly idea ever: Once a couple of wools are placed, then every time the player leaves a certain area around the monument, the wools' positions are switched. I bet some people wouldn't even notice. Minor differences can be the most irritating things to the people who notice them, though.
You have to admit, though, that using an NBT editor is a lot harder than using some of the simpler tools around. Heck, even I don't have most of the NBT tags memorized. That would be difficult.
Also, why does it seem like every monster hunter map ever is some variety of open world? What is wrong with a traditional cave map where all your resources come from mobs? I feel like too often, open world MH maps suffer from BD2 syndrome. Vast, somewhat barren landscapes without anything interesting to do but fight the custom mobs. Not saying your map is going to be anything like that, Infinity, but that seems to have been the pattern.
Okay let me clarify a few things: I did intend with that question what Rubisk said, but furthermore, I intended for it to ask also this: how should the player deal with things after death? Should we make it be so it's super easy to re-gear, should we make it be so you'll only have decent gear that isn't like your previous gear but you can use it and keep yourself alive, etc.
To give a better example of this, let me say my answer to this question: I think how it should be is that the player has enough xp bottles and decent gear so he'll be able to die a few times in a row, but not enough to do constant death runs with them. I want the player to have space for mistakes, so after death, he may rage a bit but not need to go grind for forty days and forty nights to get gear at the same level the gear he had before was. This is actually one of the reasons I like MH so much: (nearly) everything is renewable, so dying will at most only set you at most a bit back with your gear level, because there'll nearly always be a good set of gear that's obtainable from mobs/trading what the mobs drop/ using the mobs drops to acquire it.
Even if the gear *is* renewable, you still have to grind the mobs to get it. Most maps, you can get loot from loot chests, and grind a little if you really want more gear. The reason I dislike MH as a concept is that most of the time, the whole point of the map is that you *have* to get your gear from the mobs. What you have to do to make sure your MH map is good is to make it involve little to no grinding. And I don't really see any good ways to do that. I would love to see you prove me wrong, though.
You can balance everything. Provide a path up, reduce the delay. Balancing can be done in a 1000 ways.
I think this is the easiest way to balance, though. Sure, I could put the spawners on a huge delay, but at that point what would the difference be between that and a /summon command block (maybe on a long timer)? I also want the mobs spawning in very specific locations; they are paths over the void, after all. I suppose I could shrink the range of the spawners, but I feel like it'd just be simpler to /summon the mobs. Keep in mind I only want the mobs spawning once, probably when the player presses the "start map" button, and it's only really for the starting area. Although I may extend it to other areas if I think it's appropriate.
Or just light the area up at the ground, and put the spawners up high?
p-p-p-p-p-page get.
Breaking or lighting up spawners that are in the air is much harder, y'know... and besides, I'm trying to make my map a fairly easy one, at least to start. I don't want CTM noobs being overrun with spawner spawns in the very first room because they're going too slowly.
4
The point was not "get a message when you place a wool". The point was "potential central CTM server with easy-to-access popular maps publicly available" a la RMCT. "Get a message when you place a wool" is a possible feature, but I was talking about an easy place for people to play a CTM map together without home-hosting or buying a server, a place for new people to get into CTM maps, a sort of unofficial face of the community. Heck, we could have a "mapmaker" subsection where all the people who like to do all their work with VoxelSniper, WorldEdit, etc. can collaborate on making maps more easily. It's something we don't have, and could potentially benefit greatly from in my mind.
1
One prominent example of a plugin that supports a community massively is the RMCT/Race for Wool community's AutoReferee plugin. It basically does what it sounds like it should do. Now, maybe we don't need a plugin all that much for ingame functionality, although it might be cool to have a plugin that detects wool obtaining and placement. Where I really see the potential in this is in terms of meta-CTM. Basically, we could do what the RMCT community does, and have a server set up for the express purpose of hosting CTM maps. AutoReferee has the capability to run multiple RFW matches at once on the same server... We could end up with something like (and maybe this is a bad example) the Hypixel server, which makes adventure maps like Herobrine's Mansion publicly available to the masses. This leads me to a...
Community Question:
What would you think of a Bukkit plugin that manages CTM maps? Could it potentially lead to something like what the RFW community has? Would this be a good thing? I think that if it works, it could grow the community by a fair amount - which may be a good or bad thing. But seeing as we're getting towards the end of summer, and I anticipate a bunch of people dropping out of the community to focus on schoolwork, I think it'd be nice to have some fresh faces. Thoughts?
1
oh, I always seem to forget about LE until it's too late
and yeah, the way I was thinking of for making that system work for an arbitrarily large number of people would be insanely slow the more people there were... it would work fine for small numbers of people, but might still be a bit slow. It basically involved testing to see if any player had a PlayerNumber greater than 1, and then decrementing everyone's PlayerNumber by 1. That way, a single "/effect @a[score_PlayerNumber_etc]" command block could test a player and apply the effect if they needed it, and then shift to the next player up the PlayerNumber list (actually shifting the entire list, rather than changing the numbers in the command-block setup). Every time the list is shifted, add 1 to another total, and when you have reached the end of the list, shift the list back to the start using that total. The problem, of course, is that the one command-block assembly needs to test each PlayerNumber before it can start over, and since the shifting has to be done after the /effect test is done, it can't all be done instantaneously.
...I suppose the process could be sped up by combining the two approaches... Set up 5 of those command-block setups, testing PlayerNumbers 1-5, and when it comes time to shift the list, it shifts the list by 5. That way it processes 5 players at once. It will still get slower the more players there are, but only at 1/5th the speed.
It seems to me like an elegant solution, but it's easily screwed up. What if a player disconnects from the server during the test? Things fall apart; you probably will end up with two people with the same PlayerNumber. It's probably just easier to put around 5 of those single-testing setups in your map and say "Multiplayer is not supported beyond 5 players". (Really, multiplayer won't be supported beyond 5 players anyway; it would be hard to balance loot.)
This is the sort of stuff I do in my free time.
2
See, the only issue there is "multiplayer friendly". Otherwise, you just need to /effect @p [effect] 0, hook up a comparator, and have its output activate more command blocks to give a different effect. In multiplayer, though, things get a bit more complicated. You need to have the command blocks that give the other effect only give the effect to players who had the first effect. This is hard to accomplish: The /effect command can't test for NBT tags like status effects already on players, and neither can the /scoreboard command. What you have to do is give each player something that the /effect command CAN test for. Namely, a scoreboard value.
Each player has to have a different value for a scoreboard objective (let's call it PlayerNumber). Player A has a score for PlayerNumber of 1, player B has a score of 2, etc. Then, you have a series of command blocks, one for each player. Each set of command blocks needs one command block with /effect @a[score_PlayerNumber=1,score_PlayerNumber_min=1] [effect you want to take from the player] 0. Then add a comparator as an output from that command block, which leads to a command block that gives the effect you want the player to end up with (the command in this case should be /effect @a[score_PlayerNumber=1,score_PlayerNumber_min=1] [effect you want to give the player] [duration] [amplifier]). Then just set up one of those with a different "score_PlayerNumber=x,score_PlayerNumber_min=x" for each potential player your map could have. Naturally, this limits how many people can be playing the map in any given playthrough, but it's rare to have more than 4 or 5 players playing the map in one playthrough anyway.
Hang on, though. I've got an idea for how to get around this... let me look into it and get back to you. Assuming you really want the capability for more than any arbitrary number of players to be playing your map.
0
There are a lot of color combinations that work well. There are also a lot that don't. Got any examples or ideas?
0
Well, I just did a little bit of testing. You know what the command "/particle blah [etc.]" outputs? "Unknown effect name (blah)". But do you know what the command "/particle blockcrack_35_2 [etc.]" outputs? "An unknown error occurred while attempting to perform this command". Which means that "blockcrack_35_2" is being recognized as a particle that exists, but it can't create the particle for some unknown reason. Which to me screams "submit this as a bug". If you're lucky, they'll see it and fix it for 1.8.
Also, everyone else may be interested in this: I now have access to a laptop, after over a week without anything but my phone. Also, this computer is mine, not my father's, as was the case for the preceding week. What this all means is that I can resume progress on any and all mapmaking efforts in which I was previously involved. Yay!
4
0
1
*ahem*
Oh, and by the way people, I'm officially on my way to college. Don't know how involved in the community I'll be able to be from here on out, but I'll do my best. After all, I've still got so much unfinished business to attend to.
0
I mostly use MCEdit, with occasional switching to WorldEditWrapper (including the Terraforming Toolkit craftscripts). You can do a lot with MCEdit filters. Everything else, I do ingame; I also know enough about NBT tags that the 1.8 give command and the NBTEdit filter are sufficient for custom loot.
0
I just had visions of a monument where, when completed, the wools all start jumping around. Relatedly, I just had the most trolly idea ever: Once a couple of wools are placed, then every time the player leaves a certain area around the monument, the wools' positions are switched. I bet some people wouldn't even notice. Minor differences can be the most irritating things to the people who notice them, though.
0
You have to admit, though, that using an NBT editor is a lot harder than using some of the simpler tools around. Heck, even I don't have most of the NBT tags memorized. That would be difficult.
Also, why does it seem like every monster hunter map ever is some variety of open world? What is wrong with a traditional cave map where all your resources come from mobs? I feel like too often, open world MH maps suffer from BD2 syndrome. Vast, somewhat barren landscapes without anything interesting to do but fight the custom mobs. Not saying your map is going to be anything like that, Infinity, but that seems to have been the pattern.
0
Even if the gear *is* renewable, you still have to grind the mobs to get it. Most maps, you can get loot from loot chests, and grind a little if you really want more gear. The reason I dislike MH as a concept is that most of the time, the whole point of the map is that you *have* to get your gear from the mobs. What you have to do to make sure your MH map is good is to make it involve little to no grinding. And I don't really see any good ways to do that. I would love to see you prove me wrong, though.
0
I think this is the easiest way to balance, though. Sure, I could put the spawners on a huge delay, but at that point what would the difference be between that and a /summon command block (maybe on a long timer)? I also want the mobs spawning in very specific locations; they are paths over the void, after all. I suppose I could shrink the range of the spawners, but I feel like it'd just be simpler to /summon the mobs. Keep in mind I only want the mobs spawning once, probably when the player presses the "start map" button, and it's only really for the starting area. Although I may extend it to other areas if I think it's appropriate.
0
Breaking or lighting up spawners that are in the air is much harder, y'know... and besides, I'm trying to make my map a fairly easy one, at least to start. I don't want CTM noobs being overrun with spawner spawns in the very first room because they're going too slowly.