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    posted a message on "red stuff" logic gates
    oh, cool, i had just posted my XOR gate in another thread then i saw this. a full adder should be easy now!

    how long before we have fully computerized fortresses?
    Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
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    posted a message on match+wire science (logic gates)
    AWESOME! i was actually going to make this same thread, but while i was making my XOR gate you posted this thread.

    i can't post results as they are too large apparently....

    however, placing glow sticks on the sides of blocks will save me a TON of space, so i am going to go rebuild it anyhow!

    here is my XOR diagram from the top:


    :brick: = wire
    :soil: = dirt
    :tnt: = red torch
    [gold] = output/input
    [iron] = empty

    [iron] [iron] [gold] [iron] [iron]
    [iron] [iron] :tnt: [iron] [iron]
    [iron] [iron] :soil: [iron] [iron]
    [iron] [iron] :tnt: [iron] [iron]
    [iron] :brick: :soil: :brick: [iron]
    [iron] :tnt: [iron] :tnt: [iron]
    :brick: :soil: :brick: :soil: :brick:
    :brick: [iron] :tnt: [iron] :brick:
    :brick: :brick: :soil: :brick: :brick:
    [gold] [iron] [iron] [iron] [gold]

    this functions properly where the output lights up if one of the 2 inputs is lit up, but not if both are lit up.

    this + an AND gate = half adder

    that x 8 = an 8 bit adding machine

    ...add some registers and....i am never going to sleep again
    Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
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    posted a message on *Cries*
    so did this portion of the map get saved to hard drive and then improperly loaded when you went back?

    looks like it could be an infinite map bug
    Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
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    posted a message on open letter to notch on infinite maps
    notch, i think you need to change your plan for infinite maps.

    loading chunks on the fly is too ambitious, and it makes too many problems with generation and updating of maps, as well as rendering (bigger maps but with shorter view distances feel smaller)

    instead what if you were to use the current existing map format, and then asynchronously generate additional maps to represent the maps at the edge of the current map. finally, once one of the edge maps is done generating and it is all stored to the hard drive, you can load only a few rows of blocks from it and render them at the edge of the current map in memory.

    this way the rendering and updating should work 100% normal, and when the player gets to the edge of the map they see a transparent wall with some blocks on the other side. by walking across the wall their computer will be triggered to load the next map and store the current one.

    sure, we all have to see load screens, but all this really does is divide one vast infinite world into an infinite number of block shaped instance worlds. the community already loves everything block shaped, but they hate everything distance fog and static(at least i do).

    the other idea i had was to keep a timer for each map you have previously visited (a single floating point number) so that when you re-load that map you could potentially run a single huge update pass to simulate the passage of some time. (trees and crops could grow, grass could spread)

    the best part in my view: you can make maps above and below the current map, and they could even be floating island maps above or hell maps below, and it would work more or less on the code you already have.

    love splad <3
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on news from dwarf fortress land
    Quote from kholhaus »
    Pretty sure they're only talking about the 3D-Visualizer that's built in. It only shows terrain.

    Also, if you want real **** blown out of your pants, try the iso-viewers and 3D-viewers made by the mod community there.

    EDIT: And also, that's not graphicssss, it's codinnnnng. RRRGGGGG.


    well right now the community has just re-written the original UI using opengl and sdl. so yeah, it looks exactly the same. but the problem before was that those 3d viewers or those real time iso-viewers required you to either save the game and drop your save files into the viewer for rendering, or you had to point the program at minecraft executable and it would use an array overflow to break into minecraft's allocated memory regions so that they could be read/written to. when i read that that's how they were doing it, i avoided those programs like the plague.

    now it is plausable that we could actually get a UI overhaul for the system maybe? one that doesn't require hacking DF's memory? also, just the fact that it uses opengl is amazing enough for me, now you can have things like transparent tiles, or scale the resolution without causing seg-faults.
    Posted in: General Gaming
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    posted a message on news from dwarf fortress land
    http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44829.0

    forum thread where they are discussing the new graphics development. apparently the writers of dwarf fortress have decided to release the source for their graphics engine to community development.

    expect to see 3d dwarf fortress soon
    Posted in: General Gaming
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    posted a message on infinite maps = big questions
    i wonder if notch has considered making it switch a whole map at a time. it seems like either we are going to see lag spikes every xx steps in the same direction, or we are going to be walking through a thick fog all the time, and since no block can know if it is going to be updated or not you can't even attempt to run a simple simulation of the passage of time.

    on the other hand loading screens suck.

    but because these 2 things are about equally sucky, i would guess there are a lot of people who might prefer the option that's not being considered. i for one would, because moving between cube shaped regions in a world made entirely out of cubes is not going to spoil my immersion any.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on limiting infinity
    Quote from vede »
    Quote from splad »
    Quote from Conundrumer »
    3. Decrease in geographic features
    As a player travels further away from the center, the geographic features of the map will decrease, meaning the map gets more plain. The less complex a map is, the less memory it takes up. Eventually, the map will end up being flatgrass, flat desert, plain ocean, plain lava, nothing, etc, which really takes up very little space. The player will have the option of continuing on into eternity, but it will be extremely dull. In addition, anything built in the outer lands can be automatically erased.

    this is the main statement i wanted to respond to. unless you know about some form of map compression that i havn't heard about, the map format is not going to take any less memory for a flat plain or even empty map. a map of 64/64/64 of empty space is represented as 262144 memory blocks all holding the value that represents empty space, and takes exactly the same amount of hard drive space


    This shows that you don't really know how compression works.

    Minecraft maps are very easy to compress because they tend to have very, very long stretches of identical data. With compression, you can change "oooooooooooooooooooo" into "o20" (it would actually be more complex than this, but it's just a simple illustration). So for Minecraft maps, those huge strings of "air" for the area above the ground, and especially near the top of the map, could be compressed from 64x64x15x2 bytes (for example) to just "122880 blocks identical to this one", which, in a more computer-readable format, could be less than 20 bytes.

    You remember that all Minecraft maps are gzipped? That's compression. Why do you think a standard 256x256x64 map isn't 8MB when you save it to disk? Compression. The simpler a map is, the less space it will require on the hard drive.

    EDIT: Partially ninja'd by Conundrumer, I guess.


    if anything, it shows that you didn't read my response.

    "unless you know about some form of map compression that i havn't heard about"

    i have written compression algorithms, i did not know there was one built into the map format. don't flame me brah

    edit: spelling
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on infinite maps = big questions
    some interesting questions that came up when thinking about the implications of having infinite maps ingame.

    1: transitions with the sky and the floor.
    will these be possible? if they are, have you considered generating floating island maps in the sky at Z+1 and hell type maps at Z - 1? would that require too many graphics state changes between map transitions?

    2: macro terrain randomness.
    if you are going to distribute the world over more then 1 map, it starts to make sense to have larger terrain features on a single map because that way the noise is distributed over the sum of all the maps. this could lead to a single coastal map, or a map representing a mountain range, instead of having a general distribution on every map that looks more or less the same

    3: where will we respawn
    will it be in the map we died in? or back at our start location?

    4: simulation of the passage of time
    it is unreasonable to update the entire map when it is stored to the hard drive, but couldn't you keep a timer for each stored grid and then run a single big update pass when we return to a grid? or would you not seperate the map into discrete grids?

    5: map transitions
    i think a lot of people are assuming you would get to the edge of the current map and see the next map pop into existance, but from what Notch said it sounded like it might be more continuous. if there is more then 1 option here, people might want to debate having fog vs having a load time between zones?
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on limiting infinity
    Quote from Conundrumer »
    So everyone's coming up with all sorts of ideas and possibilities going alongside with the proposal for infinite worlds.
    People are also repeatedly bringing up how infinite worlds will eventually get too big, or quickly fail from wanderers.
    Obviously, worlds can't be truly infinite. So there needs to be some sort of limit.

    the maps you are not on would be stored on the hard drive, not in memory, so the size of an infinite map would be bounded only by hard drive space...that's close enough to infinite for me, i have a terabyte hd

    Here are some ideas for limiters:
    1. Set world size
    Pretty straightforward. The person generating/hosting the world sets a limit on how big the world will be. If a player attempts to cross the edge of the world, he will encounter an invisible force, like what is currently in /indev/.

    good idea for multiplayer if the server has to update every active zone, pointless for singleplayer

    2. Torus (doughnut) shaped world
    No, the world will not actually be shaped like a doughnut. Basically, the maps wrap around, meaning going past one edge will cause you to end up at the opposite edge.

    no opinion here, just that it will be user preference if they prefer a wall or a wrap

    3. Decrease in geographic features
    As a player travels further away from the center, the geographic features of the map will decrease, meaning the map gets more plain. The less complex a map is, the less memory it takes up. Eventually, the map will end up being flatgrass, flat desert, plain ocean, plain lava, nothing, etc, which really takes up very little space. The player will have the option of continuing on into eternity, but it will be extremely dull. In addition, anything built in the outer lands can be automatically erased.

    this is the main statement i wanted to respond to. unless you know about some form of map compression that i havn't heard about, the map format is not going to take any less memory for a flat plain or even empty map. a map of 64/64/64 of empty space is represented as 262144 memory blocks all holding the value that represents empty space, and takes exactly the same amount of hard drive space

    4. Increase in difficulty
    As a player travels further away from the center, the maps will increase in difficulty, meaning the terrain will be more difficult to cross, and the mobs will get stronger and more advanced. Survival will be difficult in the outer lands. A single player attempting to survive in the outer lands will probably get killed quickly. If a player goes far enough, there can be mobs that can destroy blocks (eg creeper queen that spawns creepers that explode in a specified location or something), meaning building a quick soil house will not be sufficient to hide from the mobs. However, this also allows clans to make an effort to expand to the outer lands. Taking over an outer map will be difficult, and it will take a while until the world gets too big.

    i don't know why, but i kinda like this idea. it reminds me of harder and harder dungeons in a typical hack and slash rpg

    5. Edge of the world
    Same as 1 except without invisible forces pushing the player back. The player will eventually reach a map where half of the land is empty, literally marking the edge of the world. The player can jump to his death, or he may attempt to expand on platforms. However, if the player somehow gets pass the gap, he will discover nothing but...emptiness in the next map. Expansion will be exceedingly difficult, so the world getting too big will take a long time.

    this statement made me think: how will transitions between the sky and the floor work? floating islands maps and hell maps should be there imo


    ok, now i'm all excited about making a tower to the heavens, or digging to deep and falling into hell
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on red mushroom + fire = psychedelic trippy minecraft
    Quote from Jeffman12 »

    Oh, and 'African' doesn't mean 'Black'.


    so what you're saying is that not all of them inferior african types have dark skin?

    the original statement was interpreted as: "i was retarded, therefore i must be african." the implication was that africans are retarded.

    what point are you trying to make? specifically, could you clarify which group (out of all african people) that you think are inferior?
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on red mushroom + fire = psychedelic trippy minecraft
    Quote from Pimpmastaphlex »
    Quote from splad »
    the trick is that if you don't cook them right they are poisonous, but if you cook them just right...you will see some crazy colored blocks


    No, Just no. You're a dumb ass. Evidence:

    1. Burning shrooms then eating them won't do ****. In fact, It will kill any thing in them.

    2. We don't need virtual drug experiences.

    3. You are most likely African.

    Do I need to continue?


    of all of these points...it seems most important to point out that we indeed DO need virtual drug experiences, as this is clearly your most misguided statement
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Huge Carnivorous Vine Plant Monster
    i think the trick would be finding a good algorithm for propagation. something like

    for (int x = 0; x < mapXdimension; x++)
    for (int y = 0; y < mapYdimension; y++)
    for (int z = 0; z < mapZdimension; z++)
    {
    if(map[x,y,z] == blocktype.lolvine && lightMap[x,y,z] > TOO_DARK)
    {
    <check to see if it's at the end of the vine> //in other words it shares a face with only 1 other vine block
    <check to see if it's next to any other blocks>
    if(not at end)
    <small chance of making new branch>
    else
    <make a random number>
    <use random number to sometimes curve and sometimes grow straight>
    }
    }

    that's just what i was thinking initially, but it sucks because it doesn't address the idea of sometimes destroying the blocks that make up your house, and it makes vines act wierd when there are 2 of them next to eachother

    edit: nooooo it ate my indentation!
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on red mushroom + fire = psychedelic trippy minecraft
    the trick is that if you don't cook them right they are poisonous, but if you cook them just right...you will see some crazy colored blocks
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on More Than One Type Of Crop?
    Quote from kholhaus »
    I hear the labor is cheap.


    japanese labor? who told you that?
    Posted in: Suggestions
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