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    posted a message on I don't like Minecraft 1.18 terrain generation

    I'm mostly satisfied with the new generation. Maybe just because it's new and I was tired of the old generation after 8 years.


    The only thing I don't like is rivers, which are too wide and they don't look like rivers anymore... They look more like lakes or reservoirs, and now building bridges from one side to the other is not very appealing anymore, because either you make a huge bridge like this one which was massively upvoted the other day on Reddit, or you'd better not try to make anything:



    Yes, an impressive job, but not doable on survival for most players.


    Just to clarify, most 1.18 rivers are like these ones:



    They are so wide that sometimes almost overlap each other like in this image.


    I think the problem has to do with the transition between a regular biome and the river biome... In previous versions, the regular biome ended where the water started, and the river biome coincided with the extension of the water... In 1.18, however, the river biome starts in the middle of the river, so that only half of the water you see in the image is actually the river biome, while the water near the mesa biome is actually part of the mesa biome. And that happens with all the rivers and all the biomes.


    It looks like a bad implementation of rivers to me, like if they have given up after many tries.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on I don't like Minecraft 1.18 terrain generation
    Quote from Wedhro»

    I'm under the impression Mojang thought people don't go spelunking because it's too scary, while they don't because it's (arguably) less efficient than strip-mining. And, as usual, their solution creates more problems to not fix an non-issue. Unless someone at Microsoft told them to make the game even more child-friendly, an hypothesis that might be a little far-fetched but, hey, they're running a business, not a hippie commune.


    Maybe they reduced the mob spawning rates underground just for performance reasons and to preserve mobs spawning on the surface... When you have huge caves underground, you may end up with hundreds of entities below in a few minutes, reaching the mob cap and getting no mobs on the surface (and in the rest of the server in multiplayer).

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on exploring snapshot Java Edition 1.18 Release Candidate 4

    According to my experience flying around in Creative on the new 1.18 snapshots, now Woodland Mansions can spawn closer to the center of the world than in previous versions... That's the reason you have found one of them flying in creative without needing to fly across 20.000 blocks to find one as it used to be.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on I don't like Minecraft 1.18 terrain generation
    Quote from TheMasterCaver»

    I've seen plenty of "hilly" plains in 1.6.4; for example, these plains have hills reaching y=83 (the small patch of dirt near the center of the leftmost image is the highest dirt layer below the surface grass block layer) and they can likely get even higher (Plains has 1/5 the height "variation" of Extreme Hills so this is equivalent to Extreme Hills reaching around y=160 if they were not limited by the terrain height limit (y=128), which reduces the amplitude of peaks in the noise field above around y=100):mountain)


    Yes, I guess so... But if you compare 1.6.4 generation with 1.7-1.17 generation, the former is generally much flatter than the latter... That's probably the main problem of 1.7-1.17 generation, which also affects to a certain extent the new 1.18 generation: the increased height limit destroys the flatness of certain biomes intended to be really flat, like beaches and swamps... In 1.6.4 (and I think that in your mod TMCW as well), beaches look like proper beaches and swamps look like proper swamps. In the new generation from 1.7 onwards, you see those ugly beaches climbing mountains everywhere, with sand reaching around y=75 or even more:



    The same happens with swamps: small hills everywhere that shouldn't be present in a proper swamp:


    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on I don't like Minecraft 1.18 terrain generation
    Quote from Gakusangi»
    But having any sort of level area to build a decent base and all your farms? Not without a LOT of terraforming.

    Meh, that isn't true... There are plenty of flat areas to build your stuff... I would even say that some biomes provide even flatter areas than in the previous generation... For example, in the new "Sparse Jungle" biome the other day I saw flat areas where you could walk like 50 blocks without a single unevenness. I didn't see such flatness since the old 1.6.4 generation, because from 1.7 onwards, even Plains were not completely flat at all and you needed a lot of terraforming to flatten an area.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.18 Update Opinion Thread
    Quote from SirDaddicus»

    You can use all the charts you want to, but they're irrelevant. If there are 30000 blocks (about one chunk's worth), you have some percentage of that which is resources. If a cave spawns in part of that volume, ALL of the resources that would have been in that cave are replaced by air (or water or lava, for aquifers). That's 100%. Every single block that was a resource is gone. if, for example, 10% of that volume is a cave, then only 90% of the resources remain.

    IT DOES NOT MATTER whether you can SEE other resources (in the walls, floor, or ceiling). The resources IN THE CAVE, that would have been present, are GONE.


    That would only be relevant if you played on a very small world. If you play on a normal world with no limits, the only relevant factor is air exposure (assuming that the most profitable way to get ores is cave mining, of course).

    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Found a geode on the surface of a 20w46a snapshot world

    I don't like geodes so exposed above ground level... The structure is always the same shape and finding them continuously on the surface may get old extremely fast... IMO they should decrease the max height level for them to spawn. When you find a geode underground you don't notice the repetitive pattern so easily.


    And they could by the way add different geode patterns like in real life and not only the spheric one:


    https://www.google.com/search?q=amethyst geode

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread

    Wow, I was not aware people were against such things. I could understand thinking the bat in particular is a bit annoying, but not much else. Not everything needs a unique drop which makes unique new items to provide new mini gameplay loops for the game; new ambient mobs are fine too. It's not like most of them are useless so a few for that purpose is fine, and some biomes need spruced up and those serve as a good way to do that. I like polar bears.


    Indeed... More ambient mobs are needed... I particularly miss the following mobs: birds (they already have written the code of a good amount of flying mobs like bats, parrots or bees, so I don't think it would be hard to implement a few species of birds with hundreds of color combinations like those of tropical fishes, it's mostly code recycling and 90% of the work is entity modelling), frogs in swamps, and owls and crickets at night... I say these particular animals because they would add a lot to the ambient with their sounds while you play... Right now nights are not real nights without the "hoo-hoo" of an owl and the chirps of a cricket.

    The problem I see is that the addition of those gigantic bees seems like a ultimate barrier to a future addition of birds... Because birds being smaller than bees? I don't see it. And birds being even bigger than bees? I don't see it either.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread

    Finally a very convenient change I've been waiting for a long time... Grass paths can be now made not only on grass blocks, but also on dirt... It was very annoying when you made a path and accidentally you broke a path block, or a creeper exploded and blew up the path and then you had to rebuild the path and wait for the grass to grow... Now you don't need to wait.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread

    I don't agree with the first thing; that's pretty much variation, which you're saying you're against, only it's random and tied to nothing which is even worse. If it's going to vary, tie it to something identifiable. Hidden mechanics are bad mechanics in my opinion (it's understandable to have certain things a bit less clear, but not the bigger things).



    I, on the contrary, would like more random generation.


    After playing hundreds of Minecraft games, you find that the game has too much predictable patterns and behavior... For example, you need to get diamonds, and you always go to the level Y=10 or Y=11 and start branch mining there... Or you find a desert temple, and the TNT is always placed the same way and you always deactivate the trap the same way. And so on.


    There are too many things predictable in Minecraft, which is a sandbox game with procedural generation that could use seed numbers much better to make more random and less predictable worlds.


    I'd like this upcoming release to improve unpredictability of what you find underground... It seems we'll get variations in caves, but I'd like also variations in mineshafts and dungeons, variations in ore rarity and placement (depending on the underground biome would be logical, since it's not the same a biome with large caverns where many ores are unveiled than a biome with narrow caves where you need to break stone to reveal ores), etc.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread

    I'd like some variation in ore rarity and placement depending on the underground biomes, but I guess this is asking too much.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread
    Quote from TheMasterCaver»

    Likewise, the problem with swamps, if you mean like hills rising well above water, is due to the addition of a "hills" variant, not changes to the terrain itself; otherwise, the "base depth noise" (the same thing that caused dry rivers) determines whether a given swamp/area of swamp is mostly water or land:

    https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Swamp#Swamp_Hills


    Nope, swamp hills are not only due to the addition of a hills variant... Hills are present in flat swamps too... The image in the article you provide is a good example:


    This is a "flat swamp"... As you can see, now flat swamps can have hills up to 7 layers, maybe even 8 or 9... Prior to the 1.7 update, a swampland biome rarely exceeded 2 or 3 layers above sea level, making swamplands more like real swamplands... The same applies to beaches.


    As you already know as a mod maker, prior to 1.7, a maxHeight of 0.1 and minHeight of -0.1 in a biome meant a difference of x blocks, whereas in versions 1.7 and later, this means 2x blocks.


    That's the problem, that they only changed one value to increase max height generation from Y=128 to Y=256, without thinking about how to correct side effects like beaches and swamps becoming less beach-like and swamp-like.


    That's why I'm really worried about what they seem to plan to do with mountains... Knowing the lazy approach they used in the 1.7 update, it's very likely that they simply modify the Fracture Vertical and Fracture Horizontal values to make more rounded and realistic mountains:



    I hope they don't just reduce Fracture Vertical and Fracture Horizontal values to make boring rounded mountains like those on the upper left of the picture above.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on Minecraft 1.17 Update Opinion Thread
    Quote from ZaffreAqua»


    Now's the part where I'm slightly less excited and more cautious/worried. The cave generation they showed it pretty cool, but I hope that it's not all vertical drops down from the surface like ravines, and I hope that the smaller, narrower caverns of old are retained. I liked exploring the labyrinthine caves of old. Judging by some of the statements, it sounds like they're being kept at least in some regard, but I'll wait and see. I hope the mountain generation gets spiced up to have some exciting features. I still miss the pre-1.7 extreme hills. As it looks right now they look a lot more like mountains, but they don't look terrible exciting to find a spot to build on. I guess I'll warm up to it. Hoping floating islands and all that crazy stuff sticks around... The large size of the caves is cool, but I find myself having reservations about it as well. I suppose scaffolds will find continued use if I can find a jungle. Building underground is both going to be much better and a serious pain in the neck, depending if you wanna hole up in a cavern wall or in a cave-free area.

    Overall looks great, I just hope that my worries are relieved. A wish in me hopes that lush caves also get to also be the underground for jungles on top of being found near azalea trees.




    Exactly my concerns, too...

    If the new big caverns coexist alongside the old small caverns, like different underground biomes, it will be a great update... However, if the new big caverns simply replace the old ones, it will be an awful update, and people will start saying that they miss the old cave system sooner than later.

    The same goes for mountains... If the new rounded mountains coexist alongside the old abrupt mountains, it will be a great update... Contrarily, if the new rounded mountains simply replace the old abrupt ones, it will be a big mistake and many people will miss the old relief.


    In this second regard I'm more pessimistic... Mojang's development team has demonstrated in past updates a rather poor understanding of how terrain generation works... In the 1.7 update, they increased terrain generation above y=128, but at the cost of destroying sea-level biomes like swamplands and beaches... I hope this time they don't destroy cliffs and the occasional overhangs that give place to a lot of building ideas.

    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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    posted a message on True Random Terrain Generation
    Quote from TheMasterCaver»

    As I like to say, with mods anything is possible; somebody just needs to write a mod that does it, and if Forge is too limited you can directly modify the game, as I do in part because of the difficulty in modifying vanilla code with Forge (though this means none of my mods are compatible with any other mods or even Forge itself, with the exception of Optifine, which itself is a "jar" mod for similar reasons, including efficiency as using hooks can greatly slow things down in performance-critical areas).

    Also, the Customized world type in 1.8-1.12 partly implemented this by letting you randomize the settings, although not all the things you mention could be changed (e.g. you can only have one or all biomes). However, 1.16 is re-adding custom world generation in a vastly more powerful form by using json files so you can use a tool to create a file with randomized settings (sort of like the datapacks that randomize block drops or recipes), and it appears to allow you to customize biome frequencies, not just one biome or all biomes, including at least some of their individual parameters, and even add new dimensions:

    https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Custom

    Unfortunately, there are still some serious (IMO, fatal) omissions; the Wiki makes no mention of caves whatsoever (seriously, a game called Mine-craft needs the ability to customize cave generation).


    I think the best approach would be that the seed actually mattered... No pure randomness, but more diversity in procedural generation based upon a seed number, so that people could share seeds saying: "I found a seed where the world is mainly a jungle with lots of spiders and almost no zombies, and iron is scarce.", or "Guys, check out this seed where the world is mainly a wasteland and 90% of villages are zombie villages".


    I don't know, it would be nice that every seed was a surprise other than what your starting biome is.

    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on True Random Terrain Generation

    Do you think it's possible to make a mod that massively enhances the randomness of Minecraft's terrain generation?


    When you generate a Minecraft world, it doesn't matter the seed you use; there are too many things that never change: biomes are always the same size, biomes have always the same max/min heights, biomes like swamplands or jungles are less likely to appear than biomes like plains or forests, NPC villages and certain structures always spawn in the same biomes, diamonds can be found always in the same layers... And so on and so forth...


    I've been wanting a mod that implements true random terrain generation since forever, where the seed actually matters...


    With this mod, maybe in one world there are only tropical biomes like jungles and savannas, and no snowy biomes... Maybe in another world the contrary is true... Maybe one world is made of a massive, infinite continent with small oceans... Maybe another world is a massive, infinite ocean with archipelagos and an occasional large island scattered in the ocean. Maybe in one world diamonds can be found between level 15 and level 30 instead of the vanilla layers, or maybe it depends on the biome and you never can be sure... Maybe in one world only 50% of NPC villages are inhabited and the other 50% are zombie villages... And so on.


    I'd like a mod like that... Do you think it's technically possible? Probably a modder would need a lot of new hooks in Forge to implement that kind of true randomness in terrain generation.

    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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