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Mar 31, 2011Yeah, you ninja'd my edit with this one. I'll work out a solution and post it later.Posted in: Survival Mode
Mar 31, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from smurfsahoy »Whoops, I thought I fixed that. Try this version. I made the interior wall thicker near the entrance. If you can still break through, I'll try adding another lava shaft to restrict where you can take a boat.
In general, lava shafts are not good design choices here.
They can always, with sufficient suicide runs, be blocked above with dirt or whatever. Making whatever you were trying to protect with them actually more vulnerable, since now you have a big shaft the person can stand up inside of to stage their next move...
Have you tried it? The lava shaft is sealed inside the wall. You'd have to use a boat to phase through, but lava destroys boats.
Ah, well, turns out you can get into the shaft in the current design by phasing into the wall next to in and running through. I think I can fix that problem, though.
Mar 31, 2011@qwerty: You can probably defend against this in a completed prototype, but in this version of the mechanism, you can sneak through in a boat. I don't think there's any way around the fact that one block of TNT detonated at the junction would permanently lock you out, though.Posted in: Survival Mode
Mar 31, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from Grizdale »ok i think i finally found a system that is unbreakable
simply put a minecart takes up slightly more space than the block it is on, the result being that in the set up below you are able to click and enter the mincart
----this is a birds eye view of the model
----the minecart is represented by iron due to lack of smilies
   
   
   
  
   
  
of course you can set up boosters that would move and remove the minecart from that spot and without any actual holes of any size in the set up it is perfectly possible to make a perfect vault
i would like to see some one find a way to get into a perfectly sealed vault like this without hacks
The only problem is that you can use a boat to phase through that corner. If you can defend against the boats, though, you've got something.
Mar 31, 2011@wcmp:Posted in: Survival Mode
Here's the fixed version of my vault.
Quote from itg »Quote from wcmp »Quote from itg »I suppose no one was interested in my last vault because of the shoddy workmanship on the prototype, so I built a more polished version. The new vault uses the same door mechanism (which no one has beaten yet), but it's easier to relock, since you only have to mine out a little cobblestone, instead of obsidian, and you don't have to replace the lava. Also, there's a consistent exit, so you can take a look in side, relock the vault, then try to break in. The exit may turn out to be a weak point. If it is, let me know and focus on breaking through the front door.
I got through your entrance by pushing the boat up against the left corner and getting in then getting out while running forward.
Whoops, I thought I fixed that. Try this version. I made the interior wall thicker near the entrance. If you can still break through, I'll try adding another lava shaft to restrict where you can take a boat.
Quote from wcmp »
How did you get around the up slope at the end without blowing up the hidden track past it?
I am probably gonna have to add more layers of security to the vault. I'll just start mass including designs.
I don't even remember there being a hidden track past the upward slope, to be honest. It's possible I fixed it while blindly resetting the track. If you could draw a diagram, I might be able to tell you.
I don't think to mass-including designs into your next vault is the right direction to take. Sure, it'll be harder to break, maybe a lot harder, but multiple flawed mechanisms in series do not make a flawless design.
Mar 31, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from wcmp »My vault is on its second day undefeated. As far as I know, if someone has broken it they haven't told me. Five bucks says it will make it through the week uncracked.
I take it you missed my post from Tuesday? Or did I miss another update?
Quote from itg »@wcmp: I still managed to break in (I curved the entrance track to get around the block you said you forgot to remove). I think the superimposed minecart glitch still works on the v4 design, but I tried something else: TNT. It turns out you can blow up the hidden track pieces that make reconfiguring the track so difficult. After clearing those obstacles, it's just a matter of blindly laying a straight track into the vault. It's tedious and painful to do, but still doable.
Also, have you tried the fixed version of my vault? For now, let's assume I built it at sky level so the soul sand glitch doesn't work on it.
Mar 30, 2011@photoloss: If you'd like to make a thread on self-destructing vaults, I'm all for it. I can't say I find them particularly interesting, though, since I'd never store my stuff in one. Better to have your valuables stolen than destroyed. At least then you can try to steal them back.Posted in: Survival Mode
My vault design based around boats and lava is highly griefer resistant, by the way. If I built it properly, it's 100% immune to TNT. Try to ruin it!
Mar 30, 2011@Hans Lemurson: That's pretty creative. I like it! I don't immediately see any way past this, although I'll keep looking. However, one TNT block detonated at the end of the hall and you're locked out, too. The explosion passes through the diagonal gap and breaks the junction piece. In some ways, that's worse than if you just got robbed.Posted in: Survival Mode
@smurfsahoy: I don't think you understand the mechanism. Either that or I don't understand your method of breaking in. The bend doesn't exist until you press the "password" button.
Mar 29, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from Grizdale »heres a pretty simple design i just thought up and i gave a quick test run i cant find any way in
the iron ingot represents a minecart which can get to that postion how ever you wish
  
   
  
the position your in means you can only click on the minecart (when theres a minecart there) you cant place any blocks inside the vault which means you cant grief it either and water placed in the 1*1 opening will fall down the gap
as for getting out i was thinking a separate system would be best
1. place minecart tracks up to the 1x1 hole
2. boost through
Mar 29, 2011@wcmp: I still managed to break in (I curved the entrance track to get around the block you said you forgot to remove). I think the superimposed minecart glitch still works on the v4 design, but I tried something else: TNT. It turns out you can blow up the hidden track pieces that make reconfiguring the track so difficult. After clearing those obstacles, it's just a matter of blindly laying a straight track into the vault. It's tedious and painful to do, but still doable.Posted in: Survival Mode
Mar 28, 2011Yeah, you're right, of course. But hey, we're already assuming the attacker has multiple lives and is willing to sacrifice full suits of diamond armor for the mere chance of breaking in. We may as well assume he's got 3-4 minions willing to die at his command, too!Posted in: Survival Mode
Admittedly, designs that require manual relocking, like my most recent vault, are more vulnerable to this technique, but a good delay mechanism should be a more than adequate defense.
Mar 28, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from thedryness »Quote from itg »I dunno, some people can be pretty darn persistent. I would take the delay idea even farther. You could set it up so entering a false combination causes a dispenser inside the vault to drop a piece of dirt on a wood plate. As long as that plate is active, no combination will register as correct. Effectively, you'd only be able to try the lock once every five minutes.
hmm.. thats seems a lot simpler and friendly to implement, but i would be pretty damn annoyed if at any point i was locked out of my own vault for 5 minutes because someone else locked it. but i'm still fairly certain that an 8-lever would deter even the most patient lock pick attempts if they had to walk to the other side of the vault to test each combo.
You could have a secondary 3- or 4-lever override on the pressure plate delayer. Assuming the dispenser/plate was out of earshot, thieves would have no way to tell whether they had successfully disabled the delay mechanism. But you wouldn't have to put up with it.
Quote from thedryness »
another interesting question this all would raise though would be; how hard would it be to design a redstone circuit that systematically checks every combo on a lock? (the timed thing would obviously make sense to deter this i concede.) i'm not a master at circuitry so i really don't know.
Basically you'd need to build an 8-bit counter (which is basically just a bunch of T flip-flops) with the outputs wired to repeaters placed where the levers used to be. Depending on the vault design, you'd probably have to monitor the counter as it worked and cut it off the instant it guessed the right combination, though.
Mar 28, 2011It would be an interesting challenge if zombies carried diseases. Maybe each time you get hit by one you'd have a 5% chance of being infected. Diseases mights affect things like your walking speed or carrying capacity, and you'd have to craft some kind of medicine to cure yourself. Maybe Notch could retcon mushroom soup to serve the purpose.Posted in: Survival Mode
Mar 28, 2011I dunno, some people can be pretty darn persistent. I would take the delay idea even farther. You could set it up so entering a false combination causes a dispenser inside the vault to drop a piece of dirt on a wood plate. As long as that plate is active, no combination will register as correct. Effectively, you'd only be able to try the lock once every five minutes.Posted in: Survival Mode
Mar 28, 2011Posted in: Survival ModeQuote from wcmp »
Quote from itg »@wcmp:
You new design is better, but it's still beatable by glitched minecarts. I probably ought to have explained. First, build a circle of track with four pieces. place 3 carts in the circle. They should boost each other around the track and then "merge." At this point, if you let them off the track, they'll just keep going.
I can use this glitch to break into your vault by knocking out the curved tracks that trap intruders with water, then riding the glitched carts over the bare bedrock.
I don't understand. Two things; are you using my V3 or V2 because, V2 is not secure and, if you are doing this on V3 please post a picture because I don't get it.
Man, this thread is getting hard to keep track of. Sorry I missed this post, earlier. I broke into v3 with this method, but I haven't tested it on later versions. I believe this method can be defended, in any case. But for future reference, here's how I did it:
Set up a track like this:
place three carts in the circle, let it run for a while, then hit the lever. If you did it right, they'll shoot off the track and keep going until they hit something.
Edit: to clarify, I broke into v3 by connecting the straight track to the entrance after using water to remove all but the first couple interior track pieces. I believe you can prevent this trick from working by forcing the user to take a ladder up a 1x1 shaft to a hallway 1-block wide.
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