I havnt been around since spellbound released, and about 300 new pages of posts has popped up since i was last here so hopefully im not just asking something thats already been hashed out but is fallen kingdom still a thing? I know its still on the front page but I watched a vid you released a while ago and you were in a new map called inferno mines.
Just didnt want to see such an awesome idea like fallen kingdom go to waste, since I personally think you are one of the best survival/CTM map makers around, and I really think you would do it the justice it deserves.
Not pressuring you to work any faster on things either, I hate it when people do that, and you should only d things while you enjoy doing them and take a break when your not, otherwise doing things you dont enjoy or even hate doing makes the quality of work drop dramatically.
Oh well, I hope its still a thing anyway. I loved Kaizo, Legendary, Nightmare Realm, Spellbound and Infernal Sky I and II. Ill get to the others some day Im sure. Other than sunburnt Islands, I really dont like the beach, or sand.
Hey Vechs, just wondering what the specs on the new laptop you bought are? Looking to get one myself and I am terrible with knowing things about computers so am just comparing a few
Am i the only one who really enjoyed the fact that spellbound caves had sort of an underlying story aspect? More or less just the arcane schooling sort of thing but I really like it, should do more!
Ah bugger it, I'm bored as so i thought i may give my own little review of each of the maps so far in the super hostile series. Ive been here a while i suppose, but reviews seem to becoming all the rage and vechs seems to appreciate them.
So:
Sea of Flame(II): I never really full on. I did watch zisteau play some of the original but i didnt get minecraft untill around the time black desert came out. I have sort of played the original, and i thought it was great fun as a survival-island esque map. I get alot of enjoyment out of survival island maps, but i also lose intrest in them alot quicker too with the lack of a clear goal. I stomped through number II for about 10 minutes so didnt get a huge impression of it. It looked good, no doubt, but i didnt really do much.
Endless deep: I really dont know what the **** was going on here haha, I started this after fire had been nerfed so nothing really happened at the beginning, the extent of my play was just swimming down the monument then to a ship somewhere and drowning. Without a clearer water mod this map isnt fantastic, and i think its true calling is being more survival that CTM. But really not much to review on.
Infernal Sky(II): This was the first map I made a legitimate attempt to play. I loved it because the original really did have the "zen" feeling to it. It was relaxing and enjoyable. I'd have to say it was pretty far from the super hostile genre from which it gets its name, but i really did like it alot. The sprint for the tree and the first house sort of thing was alot of fun. The most frustrating thing was actually losing everything when you fell off the edge, so you couldn't just go grab it off the floor. I learned alot of how to survive from this map, as dying had a true consequence in this map. Well for me it did, i died alot considering it was an easy rating, yet it was my first real custom map to play. I like the revamp alot aswell, but with the addition of all the extra areas it lost alot of its zenniness. I wont spoil much but i did hang around in the clouds area (cloud seven was it called?), as even though it was nothing at all like the original, it was the biggest throwback for me, in terms of feeling anyway. I'm about 9 or 10 blocks into number 2 i think, but its on indefinite hiatus, and has been for a while now.
Kaizo Caverns: This is defiantly my outright favorite map of the series. I played it back when most of the traps weren't broken, so it was still a bit challenging, yet I knew about what nearly the entire first half of the map entailed before i played it, because I was watching zisteau play it while i played infernal sky. I owe alot of actually finishing this map to zisteau, because even if i stopped watching his playthrough from when he found intersection 3 so i could beat the rest myself I wouldnt have had the willpower to actually beat the map. I honestly dont know what it is about kaizo either. It frustrates me, makes me swear and break things yet i absolutely love it. Im currently playing the revamp of it and I'm very cose to returning all silverfish blocks to stone, because they are ruining the map for me. The biggest beef i have with notch and minecraft is the inclusion of silverfish. their not hard to avoid, i know, but there just annoying. Its nice seeing it with a new coat of paint though, makes me feel like hes still loved....by others anyway.
Black desert: Ive also only had a short stint on this map. 2 actually, the first time i played i only went underground, and it was pretty incredible i must say. Its enjoyable, but open world isnt really for me. I like maps like kaizo and legendary where its still open world, but several of them linked by a central chain. Completing it wasnt a huge goal for me in Black desert, I find completing a map thats open world alot harder than linear-branching. Its harder to stay focused and be committed. Im one of those easily distracted guys who finds something, 3/4 finishes it then starts something else. I did really like the design of the map though.
Canopy Carnage: I havnt so much played this map as i have explored it. Ive spent hours just running across the forest floor (pre-void-fog) and just seeing everything it has to offer. The enormity of the forest is amazing and i must say, the actually artiness and design this map is probably my favorite. The sheer size and diversity of the trees, and how each one has their own significant trait and function is pretty cool. The weird oil rig thing though can get F**ked. Man, that was the one part of the map i actually tried to accomplish, and i never really got close. Clould you imagine that place with every second spider spawner being baby spiders??? I like the map, but more or less from a visual and art standpoint. Im not committed enough to beat an open world map.
Legendary: This is the third map I legitimately completed, but not until very recently. I downloaded it the day it came out and played all the way into the nether (you can still see me posting about it in around page 85, i made a curse account just to talk about this map), but then just completely lost interest in this map and put it on hiatus. After doing that is when i explored canopy carnage and black desert, and i didnt play (and beat) legendary until after nightmare realm came out. I love this map though, its size, and the variation of the environments within is really something that cant be fully appreciated unless you play it yourself. I hate peaceful lake, ****ing hate it so much, but past that i really did enjoy this map. I spent more than half my time playing in the east commons alone though. I spent nearly a whole week simply repairing the abandoned village. I dont know why, but i rebuild everyhting (leaving what was there already, and using wood. I really liked how it gave it a "patched up" look), and even converted the building opposite the general store into a train station. The huge fun-box in the nether was over-rated though, to be honest, with a few stacks of cobble and arrows its not that hard at all. Taco was harder i think (f**cking lava cheese).
Nightmare Realm: This is the second map I legitimately played and beat, and much like kaizo being owed to Zisteau, I owe beating nightmare realm to Joe Hills. This is the only Open-World map i have actually been able to focus on and play properly, and i really enjoyed it. I beat the map well before joe finished his videos, yet if I wasnt watching them i probably wouldn't have ever finished it. Overall im not sure if its really deserving of the "ROMhack" difficulty, because even though my concept of difficulty changing alot as i play, nightmare realm was harm at times, but it was never ROMhack. The very beginning is the only part of the map truly worthy of the title i think, but the rest of the map isnt unfair enough, you dont get ripped off anywhere near enough. I beat heart of the swarm without releasing a single silverfish (from blocks anyway). There needs to be more outright "********" in this map i think, things that are blatantly unfair, like the fort in east commons, and the loot within. Personally i didnt feel ripped off enough, and have the olds stack against me enough for it to be overall romhack. Dont take me saying that in the way that i didnt love this map, because i did, things like never touching actual ground in swarm, or building an enormous structure around the monument to protect it, and an expansive railway connecting all the supply rich areas all made the expernce of this map that much better for me.
Sunburn islands: I have only played this briefly, and from what ive seen, LPer or not, I dont know if i could find this map enjoyable. I dont like the whole numbered dungeon diving escapade it had going on, which is something i didn't mention about sea of flame 2 that i didnt like either. Not everything is going to please everybody, and i know some people in the community and in really life who have enjoyed this map. Its sad for poor old sunburn though, hes kind of a mixture of everything i dont love, dungeon diving (yet i love diablo.... pfffffft????), open world (again, diablo) and sandy beaches. Its not his fault he was born this way, how can he change who he is? But yeah, i have nothing against it, but i just didnt find a great deal of enjoyment out of this map.
Wow, this turned out to be a huge review, I was planning on this being maybe a paragraph, or two. Guess not.
A couple of side notes covering the whole super hostile maps, or just some extra things i think stick out to me.
anyway:
The nether: The way it was included in legendary really suited the map, it was kind of like a theme building the a huge crescendo, it was the big explosion at the end of a Micheal bay film, The map was ROMhack, and it slowly built to the point where then end of the map, and its diffuculty deserved to be played in hell. That very much suited the map.
But I dont like how its used at all in a map like Infernal Sky II, To be honest it feels really out of place there. The undersky made sense, and that was pretty cool, but i just didnt think the inclusion of the nether in that map was really comfortable. Im reviewing this, not making the map, so this is a purely opinionated standpoint, but its just like this jutting scar on the map. Sure the entrance is 4x5 blocks big but its an essential, integral part of the map that dosnt feel like it need to be there.
I think (again, see, opinion) you have stated to find your footing with how to use it in the revamped kaizo. The "we now interrupt your" thing was really good I think, yet it would have been even better if you didnt include wool at all in there (Im up to this point, havnt beaten the castle yet, but since the portal is exactly where the wool use to be im guessing its going to be).
I dont know if you have, but i would assume you would have played Diablo2: LoD. (c'mon, who hasnt played that?). To me I see the nether like this. In Act 5 as your climbing the hill through armies of monsters you come across those abandons, or gates to hell or whatever you call it. The were right there, in the middle of the road, yet they had no importance on the advancement of the game at all, they were entirely optional dungeons with exceptionally hard monsters in there, that when you conquered them gave you some sweet bonus loot. Thats how I (I cannot stress how opinionated this is, im not saying anything is wrong or right, i know you probably get tat already but...urgh) see it working so well in you maps. Just random portals around the map that lead to small yet exceptionally difficult areas the when beaten, give you some epic loot, something that makes the game a bit easier, yet if you walked past it ans saved yourself an hour yet the map itself is still very possible to complete.
And lastly, silverfish: **** silverfish man, **** then, that **** is ********. **** them. URGH! **** NOTCH! (Sorry little kiddies, but man i hate those little pricks).
Well thats my two....or seven thousand cents on you super hostile maps anyway. Like i said before this turned out way, what bigger than i thought but oh well. Nobody is forced to read this crap. I suppose it gives you a better idea on how to please 1 in the 100000 people who play your maps now days anyway. In grand total, i love these maps in all its ego-stroking glory, and i can only hope you love making them as much as we do playing them. Or that you start getting paid to make them, so that way theres plenty of more fun to be had by everyone in the future.
I eagerly await your new "spellbound caves" map, as i have no friends to play any of the multiplayer maps with.
Oh yeah (****), btw, id like to say i really like the MCedit tutorials. I doubt you remember, but about 500 pages ago i tried to convince you to make a post apocolyptic city survival/CTM map cause i had no chance in hell of making it. Well with every tutorial you make makes me that much more educated on how to make maps that hopefully somebody enjoys.
Ill say it, because not alot do, THANKS VECHS!And to you^^^ up there, blazes are also bad, but i just nurse a pet hate for silverfish and their extreme ability to mess **** up, spread their bullshittyness and lag the absolute crap out of my game. All i wanted to do is dig a house dammit!Fuuuuuuck me thats a long ass post
Apparently Notch is gonna make it so you escape The End by defeating the Enderdragon. It'd be a hassle to have to try fight him every time we drop off a piece of wool.
I dunno, i dont spose its called super hostile for nothing. And is this defeating the ender dragon to escape a confirmed thing? or is it just another rumour people are putting around. If it is, is there a source? cause i havnt seen anything offical said about it.
Was it already exploded when you got there? Or did it explode when yu were there? If it was exploded when you got there, then yeah, that was tough. Endermen ruined it. If you were there, there were no endermen and the trap activated, then you activated the trap. Hey, at least in that case you can only blame yourself for triggering a trap.
It exploded as i got there. there were broken signs and crap on the ground near a bedrock box so i assumed that something blew it up. I can gaurentee it wasnt me, but i dont think i did anything to set it off as i wasnt even in the room. I decided to do it the lock war, i rewent to the sanctuary to get a red flower, regot another peice of white wool and made the red, as i did work my way down to the bottom of the jesters area i feel a bit ripped off not being able to complete the monument. So i have offically finished, ill post a pic soon.
Edit: On a side note, am i the only one who thinks it would be an awesome idea for vechs to put the victory monument in The End for the next map? As the only way out is dying, youd have to be careful what you took or you may lose it. Just another eway for him to trollface us i think, and it would be funny
If you're playing v1.1, there is an alternate route right next to the original wool room. If you're playing v1.0, sorry man, start over.
wow, thats ****. definatley not starting over as its the final wool i needed for the monument. Well, i have an excess of white wool, and dyes from balesteins..........
But in all fairness, romhack hard or not its pretty annoying that he trapped the hardest wool chest so you cant win if it detonates.
Hey vechs, i dont know how much you read the forums anymore, hopefully you do, but you once sent me a PM explaing something to me and I sent you a reply just before with a little idea i had. You must get people giving you ideas and stuff for your maps all the time so i get if you'd ignore it but i just wanted you to know that my ego is telling me that my idea isnt terrible, and isnt a huge unachevable idea either.
Its just a small little ironic and funny thing that would only take 5 minutes or so to do anyway. And its not advice on how to make things better or some crazy redstone machine that will revolutionize the world, but i though it would fit your persona quite well. :smile.gif:
So i have every wool bar 3 in nightmare realm, and i think they're in the snowy place. Cant get to them though because every time i go near that place my game crashes. :|
You know what i would think would be good, if you made Kaizo Caverns II. Not to replace the original kaizo in the same way infernal sky and sea of flame has, but like the continuation, the real part II. I just like the feeling of the small underground clastrophobic rooms like lonely lava cave and legacy of contemp opening up to the later, more spacious areas like spine forest and vavern of sky.
It probobly wont happen, but kaizo was the first map i actually beat, start to finish. Its also the thing that first introduced me to zisteau, who i now see as among some of the best most entertaining people on youtube. It sounds kinda stupid sometimes as its just a map in a video games but i have some good memories in this map, and id like to see another round of it.
And not even something thats more epic like legendary or nightmare realm, but a true sequal. Something that dosnt set out to diminish its predecesour but build on it and become its own thing.
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Unconquerable?
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Just didnt want to see such an awesome idea like fallen kingdom go to waste, since I personally think you are one of the best survival/CTM map makers around, and I really think you would do it the justice it deserves.
Not pressuring you to work any faster on things either, I hate it when people do that, and you should only d things while you enjoy doing them and take a break when your not, otherwise doing things you dont enjoy or even hate doing makes the quality of work drop dramatically.
Oh well, I hope its still a thing anyway. I loved Kaizo, Legendary, Nightmare Realm, Spellbound and Infernal Sky I and II. Ill get to the others some day Im sure. Other than sunburnt Islands, I really dont like the beach, or sand.
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So:
Sea of Flame(II): I never really full on. I did watch zisteau play some of the original but i didnt get minecraft untill around the time black desert came out. I have sort of played the original, and i thought it was great fun as a survival-island esque map. I get alot of enjoyment out of survival island maps, but i also lose intrest in them alot quicker too with the lack of a clear goal. I stomped through number II for about 10 minutes so didnt get a huge impression of it. It looked good, no doubt, but i didnt really do much.
Endless deep: I really dont know what the **** was going on here haha, I started this after fire had been nerfed so nothing really happened at the beginning, the extent of my play was just swimming down the monument then to a ship somewhere and drowning. Without a clearer water mod this map isnt fantastic, and i think its true calling is being more survival that CTM. But really not much to review on.
Infernal Sky(II): This was the first map I made a legitimate attempt to play. I loved it because the original really did have the "zen" feeling to it. It was relaxing and enjoyable. I'd have to say it was pretty far from the super hostile genre from which it gets its name, but i really did like it alot. The sprint for the tree and the first house sort of thing was alot of fun. The most frustrating thing was actually losing everything when you fell off the edge, so you couldn't just go grab it off the floor. I learned alot of how to survive from this map, as dying had a true consequence in this map. Well for me it did, i died alot considering it was an easy rating, yet it was my first real custom map to play. I like the revamp alot aswell, but with the addition of all the extra areas it lost alot of its zenniness. I wont spoil much but i did hang around in the clouds area (cloud seven was it called?), as even though it was nothing at all like the original, it was the biggest throwback for me, in terms of feeling anyway. I'm about 9 or 10 blocks into number 2 i think, but its on indefinite hiatus, and has been for a while now.
Kaizo Caverns: This is defiantly my outright favorite map of the series. I played it back when most of the traps weren't broken, so it was still a bit challenging, yet I knew about what nearly the entire first half of the map entailed before i played it, because I was watching zisteau play it while i played infernal sky. I owe alot of actually finishing this map to zisteau, because even if i stopped watching his playthrough from when he found intersection 3 so i could beat the rest myself I wouldnt have had the willpower to actually beat the map. I honestly dont know what it is about kaizo either. It frustrates me, makes me swear and break things yet i absolutely love it. Im currently playing the revamp of it and I'm very cose to returning all silverfish blocks to stone, because they are ruining the map for me. The biggest beef i have with notch and minecraft is the inclusion of silverfish. their not hard to avoid, i know, but there just annoying. Its nice seeing it with a new coat of paint though, makes me feel like hes still loved....by others anyway.
Black desert: Ive also only had a short stint on this map. 2 actually, the first time i played i only went underground, and it was pretty incredible i must say. Its enjoyable, but open world isnt really for me. I like maps like kaizo and legendary where its still open world, but several of them linked by a central chain. Completing it wasnt a huge goal for me in Black desert, I find completing a map thats open world alot harder than linear-branching. Its harder to stay focused and be committed. Im one of those easily distracted guys who finds something, 3/4 finishes it then starts something else. I did really like the design of the map though.
Canopy Carnage: I havnt so much played this map as i have explored it. Ive spent hours just running across the forest floor (pre-void-fog) and just seeing everything it has to offer. The enormity of the forest is amazing and i must say, the actually artiness and design this map is probably my favorite. The sheer size and diversity of the trees, and how each one has their own significant trait and function is pretty cool. The weird oil rig thing though can get F**ked. Man, that was the one part of the map i actually tried to accomplish, and i never really got close. Clould you imagine that place with every second spider spawner being baby spiders??? I like the map, but more or less from a visual and art standpoint. Im not committed enough to beat an open world map.
Legendary: This is the third map I legitimately completed, but not until very recently. I downloaded it the day it came out and played all the way into the nether (you can still see me posting about it in around page 85, i made a curse account just to talk about this map), but then just completely lost interest in this map and put it on hiatus. After doing that is when i explored canopy carnage and black desert, and i didnt play (and beat) legendary until after nightmare realm came out. I love this map though, its size, and the variation of the environments within is really something that cant be fully appreciated unless you play it yourself. I hate peaceful lake, ****ing hate it so much, but past that i really did enjoy this map. I spent more than half my time playing in the east commons alone though. I spent nearly a whole week simply repairing the abandoned village. I dont know why, but i rebuild everyhting (leaving what was there already, and using wood. I really liked how it gave it a "patched up" look), and even converted the building opposite the general store into a train station. The huge fun-box in the nether was over-rated though, to be honest, with a few stacks of cobble and arrows its not that hard at all. Taco was harder i think (f**cking lava cheese).
Nightmare Realm: This is the second map I legitimately played and beat, and much like kaizo being owed to Zisteau, I owe beating nightmare realm to Joe Hills. This is the only Open-World map i have actually been able to focus on and play properly, and i really enjoyed it. I beat the map well before joe finished his videos, yet if I wasnt watching them i probably wouldn't have ever finished it. Overall im not sure if its really deserving of the "ROMhack" difficulty, because even though my concept of difficulty changing alot as i play, nightmare realm was harm at times, but it was never ROMhack. The very beginning is the only part of the map truly worthy of the title i think, but the rest of the map isnt unfair enough, you dont get ripped off anywhere near enough. I beat heart of the swarm without releasing a single silverfish (from blocks anyway). There needs to be more outright "********" in this map i think, things that are blatantly unfair, like the fort in east commons, and the loot within. Personally i didnt feel ripped off enough, and have the olds stack against me enough for it to be overall romhack. Dont take me saying that in the way that i didnt love this map, because i did, things like never touching actual ground in swarm, or building an enormous structure around the monument to protect it, and an expansive railway connecting all the supply rich areas all made the expernce of this map that much better for me.
Sunburn islands: I have only played this briefly, and from what ive seen, LPer or not, I dont know if i could find this map enjoyable. I dont like the whole numbered dungeon diving escapade it had going on, which is something i didn't mention about sea of flame 2 that i didnt like either. Not everything is going to please everybody, and i know some people in the community and in really life who have enjoyed this map. Its sad for poor old sunburn though, hes kind of a mixture of everything i dont love, dungeon diving (yet i love diablo.... pfffffft????), open world (again, diablo) and sandy beaches. Its not his fault he was born this way, how can he change who he is? But yeah, i have nothing against it, but i just didnt find a great deal of enjoyment out of this map.
Wow, this turned out to be a huge review, I was planning on this being maybe a paragraph, or two. Guess not.
A couple of side notes covering the whole super hostile maps, or just some extra things i think stick out to me.
anyway:
The nether: The way it was included in legendary really suited the map, it was kind of like a theme building the a huge crescendo, it was the big explosion at the end of a Micheal bay film, The map was ROMhack, and it slowly built to the point where then end of the map, and its diffuculty deserved to be played in hell. That very much suited the map.
But I dont like how its used at all in a map like Infernal Sky II, To be honest it feels really out of place there. The undersky made sense, and that was pretty cool, but i just didnt think the inclusion of the nether in that map was really comfortable. Im reviewing this, not making the map, so this is a purely opinionated standpoint, but its just like this jutting scar on the map. Sure the entrance is 4x5 blocks big but its an essential, integral part of the map that dosnt feel like it need to be there.
I think (again, see, opinion) you have stated to find your footing with how to use it in the revamped kaizo. The "we now interrupt your" thing was really good I think, yet it would have been even better if you didnt include wool at all in there (Im up to this point, havnt beaten the castle yet, but since the portal is exactly where the wool use to be im guessing its going to be).
I dont know if you have, but i would assume you would have played Diablo2: LoD. (c'mon, who hasnt played that?). To me I see the nether like this. In Act 5 as your climbing the hill through armies of monsters you come across those abandons, or gates to hell or whatever you call it. The were right there, in the middle of the road, yet they had no importance on the advancement of the game at all, they were entirely optional dungeons with exceptionally hard monsters in there, that when you conquered them gave you some sweet bonus loot. Thats how I (I cannot stress how opinionated this is, im not saying anything is wrong or right, i know you probably get tat already but...urgh) see it working so well in you maps. Just random portals around the map that lead to small yet exceptionally difficult areas the when beaten, give you some epic loot, something that makes the game a bit easier, yet if you walked past it ans saved yourself an hour yet the map itself is still very possible to complete.
And lastly, silverfish: **** silverfish man, **** then, that **** is ********. **** them. URGH! **** NOTCH! (Sorry little kiddies, but man i hate those little pricks).
Well thats my two....or seven thousand cents on you super hostile maps anyway. Like i said before this turned out way, what bigger than i thought but oh well. Nobody is forced to read this crap. I suppose it gives you a better idea on how to please 1 in the 100000 people who play your maps now days anyway. In grand total, i love these maps in all its ego-stroking glory, and i can only hope you love making them as much as we do playing them. Or that you start getting paid to make them, so that way theres plenty of more fun to be had by everyone in the future.
I eagerly await your new "spellbound caves" map, as i have no friends to play any of the multiplayer maps with.
Oh yeah (****), btw, id like to say i really like the MCedit tutorials. I doubt you remember, but about 500 pages ago i tried to convince you to make a post apocolyptic city survival/CTM map cause i had no chance in hell of making it. Well with every tutorial you make makes me that much more educated on how to make maps that hopefully somebody enjoys.
Ill say it, because not alot do, THANKS VECHS!And to you^^^ up there, blazes are also bad, but i just nurse a pet hate for silverfish and their extreme ability to mess **** up, spread their bullshittyness and lag the absolute crap out of my game. All i wanted to do is dig a house dammit!Fuuuuuuck me thats a long ass post
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I dunno, i dont spose its called super hostile for nothing. And is this defeating the ender dragon to escape a confirmed thing? or is it just another rumour people are putting around. If it is, is there a source? cause i havnt seen anything offical said about it.
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Edit: On a side note, am i the only one who thinks it would be an awesome idea for vechs to put the victory monument in The End for the next map? As the only way out is dying, youd have to be careful what you took or you may lose it. Just another eway for him to trollface us i think, and it would be funny
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But in all fairness, romhack hard or not its pretty annoying that he trapped the hardest wool chest so you cant win if it detonates.
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Its just a small little ironic and funny thing that would only take 5 minutes or so to do anyway. And its not advice on how to make things better or some crazy redstone machine that will revolutionize the world, but i though it would fit your persona quite well. :smile.gif:
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It probobly wont happen, but kaizo was the first map i actually beat, start to finish. Its also the thing that first introduced me to zisteau, who i now see as among some of the best most entertaining people on youtube. It sounds kinda stupid sometimes as its just a map in a video games but i have some good memories in this map, and id like to see another round of it.
And not even something thats more epic like legendary or nightmare realm, but a true sequal. Something that dosnt set out to diminish its predecesour but build on it and become its own thing.