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    posted a message on Food fatigue (new statistic to solve "steak problem")
    Generalization. I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of the Minecraft community would dislike the idea, so I'm able to use words reflecting that. The slight exaggeration is to make my argument stronger. Sure, you agreed with the idea,but out of the seven commenters minus OP, you're the first to agree with it.





    Generalization is a fallacy. How do you know that you are slightly exaggerating? You might be significantly exaggerating. You would need to be circular in order to assume that you are correct from the get-go. The majority of posts here are perhaps negative feedback (that is not to say they are not constructive!); but appealing to these comments as support for your generalization is supporting a general proposition with anecdotal evidence, which is another fallacy. It could be that most people who read this post agree with OP but haven't spoken about it.


    Even if the majority of players are generally on your side, appealing to them would be to appeal to population; another fallacy. Minecraft should not be built solely on what the population wants. The game would have no backbone. It would turn into a mess of unbalanced systems because different people want different things, and we cannot please everybody. There needs to be a single large coherent balanced vision that Minecraft develops towards.


    Isn't that the point of suggesting things? To change parts of the game you don't like?





    Not necessarily, but I believe my point went over your head.


    And what do you mean by "objective"? Downside (in this case) is a synonym for downgrade.
    Consider this: iron swords do six damage and 200-something durability. Diamond swords do seven damage and have a whopping 1561 durability. Iron swords cannot be "objectively" better. Likewise, the idea removes the easiness that comes from sticking to one type of easily-obtainable food for the sake of making the game more difficult and requiring more planning. Since the idea is changing the core mechanics of the game in an unavoidable way and only exists to punish the player with absolutely zero incentives to stick to the system aside from maintaining the old default values, it is considered a direct downgrade. Like using a butter knife to cut a steak.





    "Objective", meaning: Absolute (relating to values); not relating to opinions nor feelings. "Downside", meaning: Increased difficulty; less immediate player benefit.


    "Objective downside" (as it was used in this case) example:


    John: "They changed the sword damage value from 6 to 5, what an objective downside!"


    Dustin: "Yes, but overall, they brought balance to other weapons; now the stone sword is no longer obsolete! This is an objective upside, but in another sense. Focus on the bigger picture, John!"


    So you take a complete 180 and say I can only criticize it if I support the idea?





    No, I did not say this. I believe my point went over your head. I remained logically consistent and said what I said above.


    I beg to differ. Minecraft has a very casual playerbase. Your average non-Wiki-hounding player wouldn't understand how this works. Furthermore, it would tank the difficulty of Minecraft in one of the worst ways possible. Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food.





    Instead of focusing what is best for the balance of the game, you are concerned with how you think casual players are going to stumble. This is where we differ. There is a casual fanbase, and there is also a technical fanbase who wants to see this survival game thrive with a solid balanced structure. If the casual people are casual, then will they even mind this technical suggestion?


    Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food? They can learn. If they don't learn, then they can still live on one type of food. Those who learn systems are rewarded. Case closed. That is my opinion, and I am happy that you have yours.


    I've created Hardcore worlds where I build as large a farm as I can and still struggle to create bread every few days. So when that bread vanishes...





    ...Hopefully this system will be in place.


    I've read this at least eight times now, yet I still can't process what you're saying here.





    That is, I would implement a system similar to this suggested system, and then I would refine things for purposes of difficulty relative to how the game plays with the new system. I would not strive to keep the hunger system balanced with how it currently stands. In a nutshell and to run with an analogy you already used: The player has too many steak knives. We may need to take some away in order to fix balancing issues; but that is alright, because we are focusing on building a foundation with new standards.


    It's nice that you find it fun, but you're not the majority of the community. Minecraft has never been about mechanics like these.





    Of course it has. That is why Minecraft has a hunger system.


    It's not the same type of survival game as something like ARK or Don't Starve. Minecraft is first and foremost a sandbox game.
    This system would simply cripple adventuring further than 1.13 did by adding Phantom random encounters when you don't sleep. Ever since Phantoms were added, players have had to either take a bed with them and risk losing their gear and spawnpoint or simply face the wrath of multiple flying biters spawning and chomping down on them. Phantoms changed the core mechanics of the game by setting the standard for mobs spawning from triggered events. Did they make the game more enjoyable? No.





    I understand your point regarding Phantoms. However, when discussing what is enjoyable, it is often beneficial to remember that "enjoyable" is subjective. Phantoms likely make the game enjoyable for many people, even if those people do not speak out.


    Phantoms were voted into the game, were they not?


    You admit this system adds no upsides then call it a direct upgrade?





    No upsides in a sense and relative to the old system. It is a direct upgrade because it solves balancing issues and gives many obsolete items a strong purpose.


    How can it perform better than the current system if there are no additional mechanics that allow it to perform in the first place?





    There are additional mechanics; the fatigue mechanic.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Food fatigue (new statistic to solve "steak problem")
    Quote from Jancrash»

    As much as I personally enjoy having to farm for multiple types of food, this suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current hunger system. It'd just make hunger management more tedious. Give it some kind of benefit system. Maybe eating a food (possibly anything from the whole category) you haven't eaten much of recently gives it a massive saturation boost? Maybe it gives off some kind of new potion effect? Nobody will want to support it if it's only downsides. The hunger bar itself had benefits such as enabling health regeneration and sprinting.


    And please, let the food fatigues be hidden mechanics, not potion effects. Potion effects can be cleared with a simple bucket of milk (this even applies to things like Bad Omen and Hero of the Village), and I don't want my screen cluttered with Fatigue timers every time I open my inventory.





    I disagree with your comment about nobody wanting to support it if it is only "downsides". If you read my post further up the thread, I already expressed support.


    I support your idea of keeping the fatigue a hidden mechanic as opposed to being a potion effect.


    Consider the "This suggestion only brings downsides" argument. This suggestion may bring objective downsides to Minecraft regarding Minecraft's current system, but Minecraft's current system is why we are suggesting a change in the first place.


    The current system could use rework because it is out of balance. Once balance is brought between the food items, the new system may be considered a "downside" from the old system in regards to immediate player benefit, but the main point of the suggestion is to rework the system with little to no concern for matching it's standards with the current system. Whether or not this suggestion makes Minecraft easier or harder in the long run is not as important as bringing balance to the food items.


    If I were in Mojang, I would bring balance by setting new standards, and then refine difficultly based on the new system and how it relates to other in-game systems, as opposed to matching difficulty with the old hunger system. Forget the old system, it was broken to begin with, and too easy in my opinion.


    I am not opposed to adding "upsides", but this "downside" suggestion alone does not "just make the hunger system more tedious"; it sets new standards that fix the current unbalanced hunger system. Of course, what is tedious is subjective; for me this suggestion would make the hunger system more fun.


    In regards to the overall Minecraft survival experience, this system is a straight upgrade from the current hunger system. It needs to be refined.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Food fatigue (new statistic to solve "steak problem")

    Sooooo... a system that if you don't eat a diversified diet it introduces your Player Character to Depression?


    No thanks. I already have that IRL. I don't need my game character suffering from it too. :-)



    It is more that the Minecraft hunger system is currently suffering from depression, and OP put forth a system that cures it by bringing balance to the food items. :-)

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Food fatigue (new statistic to solve "steak problem")
    Quote from BloodyPhoenix»

    All this would do is make the food mechanic annoying while adding nothing to it. Instead of just steaks or golden carrots, now people will be lugging around steaks, pork, and golden carrots.


    I believe you are mistaken.


    You say this suggestion would add nothing to the food mechanic (system), but if you read the OP carefully, you could see that this suggestion adds a fatigue system within the food mechanic system.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Food fatigue (new statistic to solve "steak problem")

    This is a great idea, I support it.


    Like alxgvr mentioned, this system would encourage players to plan ahead before going on long trips, and that is one of my favorite benefits from this suggestion. It needs to be refined.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Improved Animal Behavior

    Improved Animalistic Behavior


    Problem:
    • Minecraft hunting is too easy. Animal Behavior needs new standards. Consider this Cause and Effect suggestion.


    Cause:
    • Wild animals flee from Steve.


    Effects:
    • Improved hunting mechanic is introduced into Minecraft


    • Long ranged weapons are more useful


    • Fishing rods are more useful


    • Survival is more challenging, especially early game


    • Hype for new hunting blocks and items is generated


    Thoughts:

    • Wild animals should be temporarily tamed by food and leads. Recently fed animals are relaxed. Leaded animals are relaxed. How can we have farms with calm animals? Keep them fed. Introduce a feeding trough into the game.


    What are your thoughts?

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Suggestion: Stone gets more difficult to break as you go down
    Quote from Radiated_Ronin»

    I have seen this suggestion before and I always counter with this question: In real life, does stone get harder the further into the Earth you go? No, it doesn't. Modern mining companies don't have to change out their drilling equipment when they hit a certain layer, diamond bits are the standard. Certain areas can be seen as being harder to dig through, but that is because the mineral composition changes. It could be denser, or an entirely new mineral altogether.


    Let's put this into Minecraft terms. Since each 'block' is supposed to be about 3 feet square (roughly a meter), going down to 'bedrock' in Minecraft is only 60 meters, or 180 feet (using the average ground level of 60). Your average diamond mine goes down 625 meters! So, to make this analogue work in Minecraft, we would have to go down to level -565. No one is going to play this if you have to dig down 500 levels to get to 'the good stuff'.


    Like I said, I see where this suggestion is going, and I appreciate the thought out suggestion. Please understand I am not bashing or attacking the thread, just stating that it isn't really feasible. You also mention the irritation of having even more types of stone to sift through. That is another huge point, Inventory is only so big!


    I would prefer to dig down 500 levels to 'get to the good stuff'.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on De-crafter

    Do you think worn tools should work in the de-crafter? If so, how exactly?

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Dolphins should rescue drowning players

    I support this idea.

    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Improved Animal Behaviors

    I am currently studying Java to develop mods for Minecraft, but I am here to post my ideas in the meantime in the hopes that someone passionate about Minecraft will take this project and make it a reality.


    Problem:
    • Minecraft hunting is too easy. Animal Behavior needs new standards. Consider this Cause and Effect suggestion.


    Cause:
    • Wild animals flee from Steve.


    Effects:
    • Improved hunting mechanic is introduced into Minecraft


    • Long ranged weapons are more useful


    • Fishing rods are more useful


    • Survival is more challenging, especially early game


    • Hype for new hunting blocks and items is generated


    Thoughts:

    • Wild animals should be temporarily tamed by food and leads. Recently fed animals are relaxed. Leaded animals are relaxed. How can we have farms with calm animals? Keep them fed. Introduce a feeding trough into the game. Traps and other blocks are a great possibility as well.


    What are your thoughts? I intend to expand on details in the near future.

    Posted in: Requests / Ideas For Mods
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    posted a message on Improved Animal Behavior

    Improved Animalistic Behavior


    Problem:
    • Minecraft hunting is too easy. Animal Behavior needs new standards. Consider this Cause and Effect suggestion.


    Cause:
    • Wild animals flee from Steve.


    Effects:
    • Improved hunting mechanic is introduced into Minecraft


    • Long ranged weapons are more useful


    • Fishing rods are more useful


    • Survival is more challenging, especially early game


    • Hype for new hunting blocks and items is generated


    Thoughts:

    • Wild animals should be temporarily tamed by food and leads. Recently fed animals are relaxed. Leaded animals are relaxed. How can we have farms with calm animals? Keep them fed. Introduce a feeding trough into the game.


    What are your thoughts?

    Posted in: Suggestions
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