• 3

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    It's not moot, for two reasons- it shows how long we the customers have been strung along, and thus why we are so upset. And it shows a pattern.


    For all intents purposes, while both Minecraft teams worked for the same company they're two separate entities. The first team before the release had a development lead that lied and forgot about the API for the most part. The second team has been actively working on an API almost since their lead has had the reins of control. Complaining about the first team at this point is beating a dead horse. It's not going to get anything done. However, the second team does not, by any fair standard, deserve your ire.

    Quote from fredklein

    I understand that.

    However, I also understand that other people, people not associated with Mojang (and thus with less knowledge of the code), people working on their own time (thus not paid to do it), have come out with things like Forge and Bukitt. I would expect the actual employees to do better than the hobbyists, but maybe that's just me....


    What Forge and Bukitt do is not the same as what Mojang wants to do. What the current Minecraft development team wants to do. Both Forge and Bukitt break after each update if I'm not mistaken. It is my understanding that Mojang wants their API to never ever break. The goals are different and Mojang's goal of having a modular, unbreakable API apparently requires a lot of work and coding in the background. Please read some of BC_Programmings posts in this thread and the "Is Mojang Getting Lazy?" thread for what exactly a the development team has to do. He has way more technical knowledge on the matter than I do.

    Quote from fredklein

    I never said it was. They have been relatively quiet about it for a while now, which is fine. They need to work on it, and release it when ready, and just not make promises they can't keep.


    They are working on it. They haven't made promises. Like I said, one member of the current development team optimistically posted a deadline before a planning meeting. The job turned out to be bigger than expected.

    Quote from fredklein

    But by adding new features, they cause more bugs, that then need to be fixed... and those fixes cause more issues... etc.


    Most bugs are tiny, unnoticeable, and honestly, I haven't seen nearly half as many bugs as the tracker has posted. That's even if I discount repeat reports.

    Quote from fredklein

    Thus "incompetent" instead of "mean" or "evil".


    Again, optimistic deadlines is not incompetence. IT'S NOT THE SAME. They have the skill just more work in front of them than they thought. I will say that posting a deadline before a meeting or outright lying is not professional. However, that's not the same as incompetent. Again, you're using the word wrong. Even when you posted the definition of incompetent I told you how you used the word wrong.

    Quote from fredklein

    And as I said, I'm fine with that. They should have done that from the beginning. "We're working on it, no idea when it'll be done."


    They should have. We can't change the past though. Be happy with what you have because Mojang is not obligated to give us an API. We bought the game "as is."

    Also, I thought you were going to leave the thread.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 3

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    You're making my point for me. Notch (and by extension, Mojang) "didn't work on the API".



    Again, you're making my point.


    I'm only making part of your point. Everything said while Notch was in charge is moot at this point. We are talking about two development teams now. The first one that made the promises to being with was Notch in charge and, from my understanding, telling Jeb what to program. The second, and most current team, involves Jeb as the lead and Dinnerbone working with him. They also have other members (the other former bukitt guys) working on background, not too visible stuff.

    Yes, the first team leader lied. That's not what I"m disputing. I'm saying that the second team has been actively working on the mod support. It's a bigger job to get what they want to be the API to be out. They've literally "delayed" it twice, once because a non-lead employee said it would be in 1.3 before they actually had a planning meeting, the other because overall goal for 1.4 was changed or decided. As for the title of this thread, as I posted previously, the Mod API was never promised to be in 1.5.

    Quote from fredklein

    When you first said you'd put a fireplace in, it was 2 years ago, and the roof wasn't rotten. But now that you've delayed so long....


    The fireplace analogy is not necessarily comparable...Code does not degrade over time.

    Quote from fredklein

    Then they need to stop raising people's expectations on stuff they can't deliver. That's all. Why is that so unreasonable?


    It's not so unreasonable. However, they haven't said when the API is going to be released since last September when Jeb tweeted that the API wasn't going to be in 1.4.

    They aren't intentionally doing this. I honestly believe that the post you keep quoting about putting off features to 1.4 wasn't supposed to tell a deadline. It was just saying that the API isn't going to make it in. Most people probably just read it wrong or it was badly communicated.

    Quote from fredklein

    So, in the common idiom, they're writing checks their programming skill can't cash?

    I would have no problems if they simply said "We're working on a MOD API, don't know when it'll be done."

    But that's not what happened. They repeatedly said it would be released... and then pushed it off, and pushed it off, and pushed it off. And, as a paying customer, this annoys me. And I think that annoyance is justified.


    I don't believe they are. They're working on the API. They haven't mentioned when it's going to be released in months. They've only said that it's not in 1.4 and that they didn't say it was going to be in 1.5. They literally haven't given us any information within the last few months about when it will be released.

    As the for being justified...No you're not. Here's a snippet from the Minecraft Terms of Use.
    "When you purchase Minecraft you do so as is, be it in the early stages of development or already fully released. Subsequent updates are only an added bonus and not a guarantee, as icing on a cake."
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    I HAVE READ THE LINKS.


    Well, you obviously missed the one that I reposted from Notch's blog that admits that he didn't work on the API and that it fell through the cracks. I know you've missed this, twice, because you still post nonsense like this.

    Quote from fredklein

    I'm out of here. Copious evidence has been presented that the API was planned for years, even coded up to the point where they were "finishing it up" for the next release. Time after time it has been pushed back, again and again. These are facts. Certain people just don't want to face up to the truth, because it makes Mojang look bad.


    FACT: Notch didn't make anything for mod support during his tenure as lead developer. FACT: It's been pushed back twice since the current lead developer took control. FACT: Mojang is being really ambitious with the API to the point that they're working on many background changes to allow the API to work. FACT: I'm glad you're gone now. You obviously show little understanding of how projects (programming and otherwise) work. It's why you come off as entitled.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 3

    posted a message on Is Mojang getting lazy?
    Quote from Herogx

    Several people who worked for bukkit now work for mojang(I don't know the exactitudes and don't are to(Ie: I skipped reading your post, as I can guess what it says)), it's kind of clear based on a large quantity of people playing servers that it should be the focus and it's just not, which is stupid. Argue it however you like, minecraft is run incorrectly. Don't mean to start some sort of..I don't know, quote war? But too many people get outright bothered by the way they do things, I happen to be one of them.


    *Sigh* <<-----(I seem to be doing a lot of this lately)

    You don't listen to a person yet respond to them. That does not help any discussion. That's the opposite of discussion.

    You might be bothered by how Mojang does things but that doesn't mean that it is justified. As BC_Programming said, it is not Mojang's responsibility to help another entity's product. However, the last few Bukkit builds have apparently been released the same day as the update due to Mojang releasing "pre-release" snapshots.
    Posted in: Future Updates
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    ::sigh::

    http://www.mojang.co...o-snapshot-w27/
    Minecraft 1.3: The Ugly
    A couple of problems and expected features have been pushed to Minecraft 1.4. The most notable problem is the lighting issues causing black regions in the terrain. We’re looking into ways to solve this, but lighting is a very expensive calculation and we are struggling with finding a solution that doesn’t hurt framerate.
    And the most notable missing feature is the modding API. Throwing out single-player was the first step in order to make the API possible, and that’s done now. We decided to release 1.3 without the API, because otherwise it would be an even longer wait for a Minecraft update.

    So, it WAS planned to be in 1.3, but they "decided to release 1.3 without it" (if it was never planned for 1.3, they wouldn't have to "decide" anything, now would they?). It and a couple other things "have been pushed back to 1.4".

    And here we are, 1.4.7, and no API. 1.5 is out soon, and... NO API.


    Getting damn tired of quoting myself to you. READ THE LINKS.

    Quote from Xinkc

    After that post, there apparently was a meeting that decided that there was a ton of work to do, such as the merge. The Mod API was then pushed back to, as many of us believed, 1.4 when that apparently wasn't the intent. https://twitter.com/...75831037202432

    As for 1.5, Dinnerbone stated that they never said the API was going to be in it. https://twitter.com/...733076738682881


    Within a month of 1.4 development, Jeb said the API was not going to be in 1.4 which seems to imply that the post from the Mojang website was interpreted wrong and it wasn't their intent to release it exactly in 1.4. That's about a month into development of 1.4 or 3 snapshots until that was announced.

    Also, as Dinnerbone stated in the other tweet, they never said that the API was going to be in 1.5. Unless you find a source more current that that one, please stop about these promised releases.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    They weren't re-writing the lighting engine 18 months ago, when they were "finishing up" the API, were they?

    You can't use the current state of the game (lighting engine being re-written) to excuse them not releasing the API over a year ago. But nice try.


    Quote from Xinkc

    You can't say they've been working on this for two years. Regardless of earlier evidence you posted, Notch never worked on an API. He admitted that he let that slip a few days before the release. http://notch.tumblr....2848184253/soon

    The next we hear about it is that Jeb wants to get it done by last March, I believe. He then started testing the waters as lead developer by making a couple of updates. After 1.2.5, the initial plan, as stated by Dinnerbone, was to complete it by 1.3. After that post, there apparently was a meeting that decided that there was a ton of work to do, such as the merge. The Mod API was then pushed back to, as many of us believed, 1.4 when that apparently wasn't the intent. https://twitter.com/...75831037202432

    As for 1.5, Dinnerbone stated that they never said the API was going to be in it. https://twitter.com/...733076738682881


    The second quote is my response to you from a day or so ago. You seem to have ignored it since it shows that work as only really started about a year ago...at least Notch's blog shows that it wasn't worked on prior to release.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from Divinius

    If they really are working on it now, and putting a concerted effort into it, with the intent to actually get it done sometime before we all die of old age, then that's great. But you're going to have to forgive me if I choose not to believe it until I see it.


    Fair enough.

    Quote from murphmaster01

    The post above has what you're looking for.

    I guess that means Notch lied then. Happy?


    I'm actually disappointed he didn't read my post. Anyways, Notch did lie. He certainly didn't have mod support as a high priority as evidenced by him not actually working on it.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    My point is, by not being able to properly and accurately estimate how long it will take (and continuing to do so over and over and over for 2 years!), they are "not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task". Thus, they are incompetent.


    You're using incompetence wrong. Since they are working on things that directly relate and, as stated by them, are needed to get the type of API they want up they cannot logically be called incompetent.

    Optimistic with estimated time of completions early on, yes. Unprofessional with stating said estimated completion time before a major planning meeting or without intending to work on it (Notch), also yes. But to say the current team is incompetent while they're working on it is ridiculous.

    Seriously, if your definition of incompetence involves not making reasonable estimates on when things will be completed you're going to find life is filled with "incompetent" people.

    Quote from fredklein

    I mean, if they said it would be out in version 'x', then had to delay it it version 'x+1', that's fine. Stuff happens.
    If they then delayed it to version 'x+2', I'd be understanding- it is a lot of work, and they underestimated it.
    A third delay? Harrumph. They need to get their act together over there.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Two+ years later. They have missed every single goal they have set, even after announcing they were 'almost finished' with it. They have made several announcements that they will 'focus on it' for the next release, only to not do so. Combine this with all the other features that they were going to add, but never did, and...

    Incompetent.


    You can't say they've been working on this for two years. Regardless of earlier evidence you posted, Notch never worked on an API. He admitted that he let that slip a few days before the release. http://notch.tumblr....2848184253/soon

    The next we hear about it is that Jeb wants to get it done by last March, I believe. He then started testing the waters as lead developer by making a couple of updates. After 1.2.5, the initial plan, as stated by Dinnerbone, was to complete it by 1.3. After that post, there apparently was a meeting that decided that there was a ton of work to do, such as the merge. The Mod API was then pushed back to, as many of us believed, 1.4 when that apparently wasn't the intent. https://twitter.com/...75831037202432

    As for 1.5, Dinnerbone stated that they never said the API was going to be in it. https://twitter.com/...733076738682881

    So, since Jeb took the reins, we have about one or two direct statements of delay. Notch's quotes do not count since he obviously wasn't working on it when he was in direct control of the game. So, the API has only been worked on for about a year.

    Quote from fredklein

    Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. I just think the programmers need to focus more and actually DO they stuff they say they are going to do. Is that a bad thing?? Does that make me a bad person??


    They are doing what they say they're going to do. Part of the problem is that people mishear, misinterpret, or get information from hearsay. It's not a bad thing but you're playing with an incomplete deck when it comes to quotes. That's what is affecting your judgement. I've seen your previous posts, you don't even mention or quote Notch's blog post that I've posted or the other twitter links. That doesn't make you a bad person, I'm not sure why you even mentioned it. It just makes you incompetent at research and misinformed. ;)
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Confused.Really Really Confused
    Quote from TormenDerp

    Yea so how to fix?Thats my problem :l


    There is no fix. It looks like you're complaining about how Minecraft is supposed to work. You're problem is that you aren't spending time getting used to inventory-based mechanics. The solution is to practice.

    Simply put, left click is supposed to pick up the highlighted stack, all of it. Right clicking on a stack splits it in two. Right clicking in empty inventory space or on a stack of less than 64 (or whatever the maximum for a particular item is) while holding a stack of items places one of the items.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mojang Planning Hunger Options?
    Quote from blackfire853

    Overall I think a hunger option is a terrible idea, it's a huge part of the game now and is it would be as ridicules as an option to remove creepers spesifically.


    Truth be told, I love how we already have optional hunger but I'm the only one in this thread to mention it. Yes, the hunger option is tied with difficulty which people view as "not a real choice" due to having hunger disabled also disables aggressive mob spawning, but it's still an choice. Really, I think that some people just want hunger to have it's own toggle but just aren't able to articulate that desire.
    Posted in: Future Updates
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    So, your position is they aren't lying, just incompetent?

    (If you object to that term, then what do you call saying the Mod API would be out in the next release, then dealying until the next release, then the next next release, then the next, next, next release, for 2 years? I call it incompetence.

    incompetent [ɪnˈkɒmpɪtənt]adj
    1. not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task; incapable)


    They aren't lying, just optimistic about how much time it would take to get the project done the way they want it to be. It's not incompetence, it's underestimating how much time the task and sub-tasks take to complete. It appears like the background parts of the updates are gearing towards the overall goal of having a supposedly amazing module-like API. They're able to carry out the task, its just taking long than expected...like many things.

    I will admit that on a professional level, that maybe the Minecraft development team (mostly Jeb and Dinnerbone) shouldn't post musings on when such an anticipated feature is going to be released. Mojang has been unprofessional in that regard.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mod API still in 1.5?
    Quote from fredklein

    ... each and every time they said the API was going to be inthe next version.

    Exactly how many time does some one have to be 'wrong' before you start thinking they are LYING? Because they reached that point for me about a year ago.


    If you're an optimist, never. Lying requires intent. Besides Notch admitting he hadn't worked on it before the release came out, all I've seen is optimism from the team.
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mojang getting lazy?
    Quote from manu3733

    I can call them lazy when the amount of time between updates increases a ton and when Mod the API kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed because they never actually do any work on it. Even when they say, "Yup, this is the update where we are gonna release it and put the majority of our time on it" they just add stupid stuff and then, unsurprisingly, they release the version and delay the API to the next version.


    The problem with making an API is not with coding. I'm sure the Mojang Minecraft team could pound one out that doesn't fulfill their goals within a week. However, it seems like they want to make sure that the API they produce will NEVER break or need to be fixed...or if it does, maybe only once or twice.

    When Dinnerbone posted that the API was going to be in 1.3, he also mentions that they're meeting on it the next week to plan it. Obviously, Dinnerbone was overly optimistic, as Mojang has been with this, since it was retracted well before 1.3 came out. All the "promises" we've gotten are highly optimistic estimates. The project and everything related to it turned out to be bigger and more complicated than they estimated. From my understanding, the Minecraft team already has a person working on rendering which is apparently a criterion for actually getting an API up. In the meantime, we're getting newer features that are kind of nice to have.

    Also, the OP is wrong. We've had 4 major updates in the year since Minecraft came out with snapshots introducing new features most weeks. Seems less lazy than most of the Beta updates to me.
    Posted in: Future Updates
  • 0

    posted a message on Is Mojang Planning Hunger Options?
    I thought hunger was optional...It's just tied to difficulty. Currently it's, don't want hunger? Well then, you don't get mobs.
    Posted in: Future Updates
  • 0

    posted a message on [16x][1.5] Isabella II 1.5v2 - I Got Yer Redstone Here! + Fixes (March 15, 2013) (FINAL UPDATE)
    With 1.5 just around the corner I want to say that I'm looking forward to see what you do with the quartz blocks and new devices.

    It will be a depressing period waiting for your update though.
    Posted in: Resource Packs
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.