But with Mysify's idea does it make infinite skies possible too?!? :biggrin.gif:
Infinite sky shouldn't pose nearly as many problems. For one thing, if a new chunk was created in the air, it would'nt have to calculate new lighting because air blocks are invisible and neither produce light nor hinder it. It could probably be generated a bit faster, too, since it's nothing but a cube of one type of block. And the same rules Mystify made for indefinite falling or whatever you want to call it could apply to this as well. :wink.gif:
How about....you can place a spawn point where ever you want. BUT it cannot be below water level.
It can be on a mountain if you want, but its a sure way that a player cannot, just dig down and spawn where they so choose. But still be close to where they want to be.
Water level of course being the ocean upper most block of water.
This just solve the problem of abusing them in cave, but not when they're just traveling on surface (nothing stops them from just dotting the surface full of spawn point, making them invulnerable on surface).
EDIT: Also note that placing those restriction (and others to prevent abuse) may make them look arbitrary to players. That's why I propose having spawn-point generate by the game, so it can follow those restriction without the player being made too aware of it. And if you want to be able to travel across the map without worrying about dying, there's always peaceful mode.
I don't like it. One freedom I want from a placeable spawn is to put my base wherever I feel like and have the spawn near it, instead of having to put it next to the initial spawn. This does open up the possibilities by having multiple points, but they are still arbitrary points, and limit the freedom of the player.
You need to balance between giving player freedom and letting player abuse that freedom. The thread I linked to in my OP has a long discussion about the issue with player placed spawns. Most of the issue boils down to is its too easy, player will abuse it. Too hard, then it defeated the purpose of promoting exploration.
The game already limited the freedom of players in many ways, but they're there to pose a challenge.
Additional logic can be added to ensure the spawn-points are located such that no point is further then a certain distance from an existing spawn (say, 50 blocks). In short, any base you want to make will be within 50 block of a spawn-points. And if the spawn point happens to be on a location that you like, then great. If not, the spawn-point will still be within 50 blocks from you, and you can figure out how best to get from there to your base.
Quote from Mystify »
You also have a end-game (tier-wise) recipe to activate the spawn point. You have it so you need multiple diamonds to change your spawn. This still limits initial exploration and prevents nomads. A lot of the time I want to relocate my initial base to an area more conducive to mining. Having to already mined before I can do this defeats the point.
That's a valid point, this can be changed to tiered system.
1. Right clicking/walking over an in-active spawn point activates it. You'll re-spawn back at the closest point when you die (or maybe the last point you visited). In short, it's free to activate the spawn point as just a basic spawn.
2. Placing spawn block on spawn-points grants additional bonuses. Such as saving and storing some of your items when you die (or activating special spawn points).
In short, the change here is that you don't need a spawn-block to use the spawn point, but having a spawn block gives certain bonuses/safety.
Quote from Mystify »
It also feels very arbitrary and unnatural. Minecraft feels like a living world as it is. Its definitely not the real world, but it is a world. The terrain is believably natural, and the mechanics are immersive. These reinforce the game aspect, instead of the immersion aspect.
I don't think that it break immersion more then a spawn-point that you can place almost anywhere. The game already contained magical artifact (notably, the mob-spawner), skeleton, zombies, infinite water source, infinite magma source, block-shaped creature, and floating island. Having a magical area that can resurrect you won't seem that out of place.
Beside, it doesn't have to be a glowing spot. It just needs to be something that's identifiable that indicate to the player that "This is a spawn point". For example.
1. A small house.
2. A wrecked boat.
3. Small camp.
The main point of my suggestion is to solve the problem with player abusing movable spawns (they can place it right before entering a dangerous area, or nearby enough that if they die, there isn't much penalty). This system prevents player from abusing it (they can't decide where the spawn is), at the same time, it allows player to advance forward in the world as they discover and activate more and more spawn points (spawn point is generated as player explore further out).
To start off with. Since you can turn 9 pieces of string into a block, why not the other way? So you can get string from sheep aswell. Something like a spinning wheel (for realizm if anyone cares enough).
Second idea, the ability to mine/combine your own TNT without having to kill Creepers. I figured it'd be a block that could be mined just like gravel/sand with the same basic idea. The recipe, not quite sure yet but maybe something like this?
Original as we all know is
So maybe something like
The coal is really just to make it add something else alittle more valuable. The yellow would be the new block.
Somehow that seems more problematic compared to the automaton...
Which one?
The digger?
The remote pilot?
The complicated programming system (I agree, thou the question was how do you program a compressed red-stone circuit)?
Yeah Fubar, like that... but I think it would be better in minecraft if the lip at the bottom was taller. So you could still see the grass overhang and dirt below it.
How would you handle the current hill (namely, one continuous 1-to-1 slope)?
Or do those slope only occur when user place them (in short, a separate tool that trigger them to slope)?
I would say it can be used as an item lifter.
A pump block will cause water to "fall" upward for several blocks (5~7?) before stopping and try to spill over. Items inside the stream would also get pushed upward.
Problem:
In Single player, the current re-spawn system put the player right back at where they first started, regardless of how far they have explored. This create a negative reward for exploring as the further out you go, the more likely you will be able to return to that area in any reasonable time.
Previous Solutions:
A solution presented in the thread above is a spawn point that user can make a place. However, this causes a lot of issues in terms of abusing the mechanism that, effectively, allow you to to next to invincible near your spawn point.
Proposed Solution:
Have the map generator create multiple spawn points as player branch out. The spawn-point should be space that there's a minimum and maximum distance required between spawn point.
Spawn Point Locations
A new spawn point will appear no closer then 100 blocks (can be changed) from existing spawn point. And at most 200 blocks away from existing spawn-points. The spawn point will appear on the block that can receive sunlight (the top most, non-transparent, block). This mean that most of the spawn-point will be on surface (if you add/destroy blocks, you'll shift the spawn-point up/down.
Spawn Point Appearance:
Several ideas, however I settled on the spawn point appearing as a faint 3 blocks high flame with a white color (faint enough so its difficult to spot at day time, much easier at night). The flame will appear on highest block available for that point (it won't appear in caves, unless you dig that block all the way down into it).
The flame is only visible when the player is within a certain distance towards it (start to fade in at 20 blocks, max visibility at 10). The flame causes no damage, and lit up very little area around it (brightness of a red-stone torch).
Locating New Spawn Point:
Here's a list of what can be used to help player highlight spawn point (undecided, but I'll rate them how appropriate they seem).
1. Beam of Light (low) - At midnight, every night, a faint beam of white light will project from the sky-box down to a new spawn point for 15 seconds before fading (doesn't actually project light, just visible).
2. New Compass (medium to setup, easy to use) - A new compass that will always point toward the nearest "non-active" spawn points. Old compass will always point toward the nearest "active" spawn points. - Redstone dust.
[] []
[] []
Activating Spawn Point:
A new block is need to "activate" the spawn point.
Spawn Totem (should be moderately expensive, but not prohibitively so). - Redstone dust. - Slime-ball (well, gotta find uses for it. I think of it as a source of life.)
The block will be a black obsidian 3/4 block on top of a 1/4 stone-like block, with the obsidian part covered in redstone dust patterns that light up when the block is active (placed correctly on the spawn point). The spawn-block is active when the following conditions are met.
1. It's on the spawn-point (of course).
2. It can see the sky (glass above spawn is acceptable, the important part is it can receive sunlight).
3. Has a valid spawn point (see the section on respawning below).
The totem can recycled by mining it with a diamond pickax. Allows player to reposition and block if they accidentally placed it somewhere they shouldn't (or to leap-frog them across the map if they have two). The reason is to accommodate player who simply like to explore further and further without spending time bogged down in an area looking for materials.
Respawning:
When a player dies, they'll re-spawn at the nearest active spawn totem. The player will spawn on the nearest block within a 11x11 area center on the spawn totem that...
1. Can receive sunlight.
2. Can spawn a player (has at least 2 block of air space above them).
3. On solid ground (sand and gravel counts as solid in this case).
(If no valid position was found, then the spawn totem should have been invalid).
If there are no valid position, then it search for the next nearest spawn totem. And if no active spawn totem exist with valid spawn point, player will spawn from their starting position (assuming that spawn point will keep fanning out until it finds one).
Final Thoughts:
I believe my idea is sufficiently different from previous suggestion. Although my spawn-point is a place-able building, it differs in that the in game world have mechanism that strongly limits where I can place those (which should minimize abuse). At the same time it achieves the objective of promoting (or at least, not greatly hinder) exploration.
Additional Features:
Other things that might make this more interesting.
1. Totem "Inventory":
Add an inventory (3x3 block?) to each totem block. Which will allow interesting additions...
2. Re-spawn crystals.
Require user to construct a special crystal...
[] []
[] []
Placing the crystal will "register" that you to that spawn point. If you die with a crystal (doesn't have to be the same one) in your inventory, you'll re-spawn back at the "registered" totem (of course, only 1 totem can be registered at any moment).
NOTE: This may not be necessary, thou, as a player can deactivate all current spawn by placing a dirt block above them (blocking the sunlight). However it will require 2 trips if a player wants 1 spawn active and don't want to risk accidentally dying and going back to origin (activate new spawn, go back deactivate old one, go back to new and start exploring). And also prevent an accidental spawn-point destruction that causes player to respawn all the way at the beginning (which would suck for leapfrogging).
2. Different spawn points with different activation (white is the simplest one, and also featureless). Special spawn point will have have a small flame at the bottom of the totem.
A. Red Flame Spawn (hell) - Red Spawn point activation is difficult/interesting by by requiring the player to be near the newly place spawn before becoming active. During which time player will attract all hostile mobs to his location, forcing him to have be ready to put up a lot of fight (if the player fails, he'll have to recycle the totem and place it again). The event can be made to be significant when it darkens/reddens the sky (allowing zombies and skellies to survive). Running away from the spawn cancels the activation and the environment returns to normal (skellies and zombie will catch on fire).
The advantage of this spawn is that WHEN you die and this is your spawn point you'll spawn at, you'll end up in a hell biome with all your equipment intact and at full health. You'll be on a relatively small island (100x100?) surrounded by lava sea, with you on one side and a portal on the other, with many hostile mobs between you and the portal. Your objective now is to reach the portal without dying. If you succeed, then you're rewarded by being re-spawned with your inventory intact (if you pick up stuff in hell biome, they also stay with you, a good way for infinite lava source, if you can survive). If you die, you re-spawn with nothing (as what currently happens, I think).
B. Gold Flame Spawn (treasure) - This spawn activation is simpler, but potentially expensive and maybe time consuming (if you aren't prepared). When first placed, the totem will be inactive, opening the inventory and you'll notice it filled with faded item pictures (gold, obsidian, diamond, redstone, etc) with a number next to it. In order for this totem to be active, you must fill the inventory slot with the right items and the right number of items. When you've done so, the items in the inventory is lost and the totem becomes active).
The effect of this spawn point is that if you die and this is your spawn point. You'll end up on an island surrounded by water. You'll lose all your items but in front of you there are 3 locked chests within which your items are randomly distributed (but roughly evenly across). The only way to get at the item is to punch the chest until they break. At which point the two other chest will disappear or break themselves, leaving no items.
Effectively, this spawn point guarantee that you can keep about a third of your item.
C. Blue Flame Spawn (oasis/sanctuary) - Similar but simpler then the gold flame spawn, it will require a bucket of water, a bucket of lava, and a red-stone dust to activate. This spawn point also has a unique property, its the only spawn point that can occur under ground (a spawn point
It doesn't offer anything new to re-spawn, however, when activated, the spawn point will "terraform" any surface tile within 7 tiles, horizontally, into a grassy tile. Surround itself with water tiles (in a 3x3, ring, carved into the ground to form a 3x3 pool ringing the spawn). And will spawn and maintain a number of sapling and mushroom (of both type) periodically (perhaps one or 2 mushrooms every few days). It also provide a unique light source in that every tile within that 7 tiles radius area behaves as if the sun is shining on it (won't stop creepers and spiders, but zombies and skellies are toast).
The good part would be in SMP you and a friends in a small building with zombies trying to get threw it would be funny as hell XD
The bad part it could destroy most of the freedom of this game in building and would just rain alot of buildings
To solve this this should be a mod like a zombie siege :>D
in single player if you just want the fun of building cute stuff you can just slide to peaceful so you dont have to worry about zombies breaking it. If you don't want to do that, instead of trying to build the better flying castle, try to build the better flying castle with a zombie murdering machine defending it.
I know of a way.
Moat with cactuses in a checkerboard pattern.
Since cactus cannot be set right next to a wall, make a saw-tooth ring around the wall with 1 air block below.
SideView: [] [] [] [] [] [] --> Repeat as needed.
@UberFubarius: You're probably right about auto generated spawn points - perhaps on a per-chunk basis, and you respawn at the nearest one.
I thought about that, except I want to avoid respawning at the nearest one as that can completely disorienate players (more of, "Where the heck is this?") In short I want players to at least have some control over where they spawn.
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Well, we can also have a taller mountain.
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Siege weapon? Ballista.
Handheld weapon? Arbalest (it's one of the large, steel crossbow, capable of piercing heavy armor).
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Can work with jukebox, standing near jukebox while stationary for a few second will cause you to start dancing.
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This just solve the problem of abusing them in cave, but not when they're just traveling on surface (nothing stops them from just dotting the surface full of spawn point, making them invulnerable on surface).
EDIT: Also note that placing those restriction (and others to prevent abuse) may make them look arbitrary to players. That's why I propose having spawn-point generate by the game, so it can follow those restriction without the player being made too aware of it. And if you want to be able to travel across the map without worrying about dying, there's always peaceful mode.
0
You need to balance between giving player freedom and letting player abuse that freedom. The thread I linked to in my OP has a long discussion about the issue with player placed spawns. Most of the issue boils down to is its too easy, player will abuse it. Too hard, then it defeated the purpose of promoting exploration.
The game already limited the freedom of players in many ways, but they're there to pose a challenge.
Additional logic can be added to ensure the spawn-points are located such that no point is further then a certain distance from an existing spawn (say, 50 blocks). In short, any base you want to make will be within 50 block of a spawn-points. And if the spawn point happens to be on a location that you like, then great. If not, the spawn-point will still be within 50 blocks from you, and you can figure out how best to get from there to your base.
That's a valid point, this can be changed to tiered system.
1. Right clicking/walking over an in-active spawn point activates it. You'll re-spawn back at the closest point when you die (or maybe the last point you visited). In short, it's free to activate the spawn point as just a basic spawn.
2. Placing spawn block on spawn-points grants additional bonuses. Such as saving and storing some of your items when you die (or activating special spawn points).
In short, the change here is that you don't need a spawn-block to use the spawn point, but having a spawn block gives certain bonuses/safety.
I don't think that it break immersion more then a spawn-point that you can place almost anywhere. The game already contained magical artifact (notably, the mob-spawner), skeleton, zombies, infinite water source, infinite magma source, block-shaped creature, and floating island. Having a magical area that can resurrect you won't seem that out of place.
Beside, it doesn't have to be a glowing spot. It just needs to be something that's identifiable that indicate to the player that "This is a spawn point". For example.
1. A small house.
2. A wrecked boat.
3. Small camp.
The main point of my suggestion is to solve the problem with player abusing movable spawns (they can place it right before entering a dangerous area, or nearby enough that if they die, there isn't much penalty). This system prevents player from abusing it (they can't decide where the spawn is), at the same time, it allows player to advance forward in the world as they discover and activate more and more spawn points (spawn point is generated as player explore further out).
0
0
We want to get more TNT to experiment with.
0
Which one?
The digger?
The remote pilot?
The complicated programming system (I agree, thou the question was how do you program a compressed red-stone circuit)?
0
0
How would you handle the current hill (namely, one continuous 1-to-1 slope)?
Or do those slope only occur when user place them (in short, a separate tool that trigger them to slope)?
0
A pump block will cause water to "fall" upward for several blocks (5~7?) before stopping and try to spill over. Items inside the stream would also get pushed upward.
0
In addition to displaying, you can also use it.
It will shatter the moment you try to use it.
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"The current death-spawn mechanic discourages exploration."
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39153&start=150
Note: In my attempt to search for similar ideas, I'm unable to find one that's similar to mine.
Problem:
In Single player, the current re-spawn system put the player right back at where they first started, regardless of how far they have explored. This create a negative reward for exploring as the further out you go, the more likely you will be able to return to that area in any reasonable time.
Previous Solutions:
A solution presented in the thread above is a spawn point that user can make a place. However, this causes a lot of issues in terms of abusing the mechanism that, effectively, allow you to to next to invincible near your spawn point.
Proposed Solution:
Have the map generator create multiple spawn points as player branch out. The spawn-point should be space that there's a minimum and maximum distance required between spawn point.
Spawn Point Locations
A new spawn point will appear no closer then 100 blocks (can be changed) from existing spawn point. And at most 200 blocks away from existing spawn-points. The spawn point will appear on the block that can receive sunlight (the top most, non-transparent, block). This mean that most of the spawn-point will be on surface (if you add/destroy blocks, you'll shift the spawn-point up/down.
Spawn Point Appearance:
Several ideas, however I settled on the spawn point appearing as a faint 3 blocks high flame with a white color (faint enough so its difficult to spot at day time, much easier at night). The flame will appear on highest block available for that point (it won't appear in caves, unless you dig that block all the way down into it).
The flame is only visible when the player is within a certain distance towards it (start to fade in at 20 blocks, max visibility at 10). The flame causes no damage, and lit up very little area around it (brightness of a red-stone torch).
Locating New Spawn Point:
Here's a list of what can be used to help player highlight spawn point (undecided, but I'll rate them how appropriate they seem).
1. Beam of Light (low) - At midnight, every night, a faint beam of white light will project from the sky-box down to a new spawn point for 15 seconds before fading (doesn't actually project light, just visible).
2. New Compass (medium to setup, easy to use) - A new compass that will always point toward the nearest "non-active" spawn points. Old compass will always point toward the nearest "active" spawn points.
[]
[]
Activating Spawn Point:
A new block is need to "activate" the spawn point.
Spawn Totem (should be moderately expensive, but not prohibitively so).
The block will be a black obsidian 3/4 block on top of a 1/4 stone-like block, with the obsidian part covered in redstone dust patterns that light up when the block is active (placed correctly on the spawn point). The spawn-block is active when the following conditions are met.
1. It's on the spawn-point (of course).
2. It can see the sky (glass above spawn is acceptable, the important part is it can receive sunlight).
3. Has a valid spawn point (see the section on respawning below).
The totem can recycled by mining it with a diamond pickax. Allows player to reposition and block if they accidentally placed it somewhere they shouldn't (or to leap-frog them across the map if they have two). The reason is to accommodate player who simply like to explore further and further without spending time bogged down in an area looking for materials.
Respawning:
When a player dies, they'll re-spawn at the nearest active spawn totem. The player will spawn on the nearest block within a 11x11 area center on the spawn totem that...
1. Can receive sunlight.
2. Can spawn a player (has at least 2 block of air space above them).
3. On solid ground (sand and gravel counts as solid in this case).
(If no valid position was found, then the spawn totem should have been invalid).
If there are no valid position, then it search for the next nearest spawn totem. And if no active spawn totem exist with valid spawn point, player will spawn from their starting position (assuming that spawn point will keep fanning out until it finds one).
Final Thoughts:
I believe my idea is sufficiently different from previous suggestion. Although my spawn-point is a place-able building, it differs in that the in game world have mechanism that strongly limits where I can place those (which should minimize abuse). At the same time it achieves the objective of promoting (or at least, not greatly hinder) exploration.
Additional Features:
Other things that might make this more interesting.
1. Totem "Inventory":
Add an inventory (3x3 block?) to each totem block. Which will allow interesting additions...
2. Re-spawn crystals.
Require user to construct a special crystal...
[]
[]
Placing the crystal will "register" that you to that spawn point. If you die with a crystal (doesn't have to be the same one) in your inventory, you'll re-spawn back at the "registered" totem (of course, only 1 totem can be registered at any moment).
NOTE: This may not be necessary, thou, as a player can deactivate all current spawn by placing a dirt block above them (blocking the sunlight). However it will require 2 trips if a player wants 1 spawn active and don't want to risk accidentally dying and going back to origin (activate new spawn, go back deactivate old one, go back to new and start exploring). And also prevent an accidental spawn-point destruction that causes player to respawn all the way at the beginning (which would suck for leapfrogging).
2. Different spawn points with different activation (white is the simplest one, and also featureless). Special spawn point will have have a small flame at the bottom of the totem.
A. Red Flame
The advantage of this spawn is that WHEN you die and this is your spawn point you'll spawn at, you'll end up in a hell biome with all your equipment intact and at full health. You'll be on a relatively small island (100x100?) surrounded by lava sea, with you on one side and a portal on the other, with many hostile mobs between you and the portal. Your objective now is to reach the portal without dying. If you succeed, then you're rewarded by being re-spawned with your inventory intact (if you pick up stuff in hell biome, they also stay with you, a good way for infinite lava source, if you can survive). If you die, you re-spawn with nothing (as what currently happens, I think).
B. Gold Flame
The effect of this spawn point is that if you die and this is your spawn point. You'll end up on an island surrounded by water. You'll lose all your items but in front of you there are 3 locked chests within which your items are randomly distributed (but roughly evenly across). The only way to get at the item is to punch the chest until they break. At which point the two other chest will disappear or break themselves, leaving no items.
Effectively, this spawn point guarantee that you can keep about a third of your item.
C. Blue Flame
It doesn't offer anything new to re-spawn, however, when activated, the spawn point will "terraform" any surface tile within 7 tiles, horizontally, into a grassy tile. Surround itself with water tiles (in a 3x3, ring, carved into the ground to form a 3x3 pool ringing the spawn). And will spawn and maintain a number of sapling and mushroom (of both type) periodically (perhaps one or 2 mushrooms every few days). It also provide a unique light source in that every tile within that 7 tiles radius area behaves as if the sun is shining on it (won't stop creepers and spiders, but zombies and skellies are toast).
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I know of a way.
Moat with cactuses in a checkerboard pattern.
Since cactus cannot be set right next to a wall, make a saw-tooth ring around the wall with 1 air block below.
SideView:
Bam, no zombie getting through!
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I thought about that, except I want to avoid respawning at the nearest one as that can completely disorienate players (more of, "Where the heck is this?") In short I want players to at least have some control over where they spawn.