So, let me get this straight, you think that the minecraft forum is a court of law, and not a place to express ones own opinion?
Yes, it is a place to express one's opinion. However, when one touts their opinion as fact, then they deserve to be called out on it and evidence should be demanded. Why should a forum board be any different than a court in this regard? If you make a claim, back it up or admit that it is your opinion. You have expressed your opinion as fact and therefore I have called you on it. You didn't like that my view was different than your own, so you proceed to insult me and make lame attempts to throw out red herring arguments.
Definition of OPINION
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a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
Hmm, I guess if you believed that minecraft forums were based on definition 3, I could be wrong. But if you have any ****ing sense at all, I'm guessing that definition, and the "COMMON ****ING SENSE" you claim, will tell you that the minecraft forum is a place to express opinion in the mindset of the first two definitions.
Deliberately attempting to skew my point to add strength to your own argument? I see how this works.
Anyway, what I was saying is that it is only common sense to expect someone who makes a claim to back it up with evidence. No one on any side of this argument has done so, least of all Notch. However, idiots like you defend him in spite of the fact that there is a glaring lack of evidence, making your opinions on the matter your opinions. Nothing more. No amount of aggrandizement by bringing red herrings and straw mans, nor insulting those who do not buy into the ******** will change that. Again, you have zero evidence that any of Notch's claims are true, so that by definition makes your personal judgment a biased opinion. You cannot escape that fact.
Or did you think everyone who came on the forums was trying to write the laws of the universe?
*cough*strawman*cough*
Pardon my logic, I'm sure it's getting in the way of your ignorant dribble.
Circular logic? Okay, I guess I can pardon that so long as you know it's an intellectual fallacy.
Sorry, but your ******** deserved to be called out.
And pray tell, exactly what is it that I have said that is ********? Or is it the fact that you simply don't like what I have to say?
I hope you people realize that when/if Yogscast releases their "statement" it will be a video that makes them money. So if you don't want them making money off this then don't watch any of their videos.
I don't think matters. Blind Yogscast supporters and those who are wanting to hear all sides will watch it regardless and blind Notch supporters have already made up their mind on Yogscast's guilt, so they probably won't.
Wow, I feel so picked apart and defeated. Basically, you leveled your assumptions that Notch's tweets aren't true, against my assumptions that they are. Yet your argument is some how more valid?
Alright, first, the presumption of innocence is the way things work. In courts, in science, basically everywhere, when one makes claims, they must back them up with evidence. Notch has not done so. Ergo, the assumption must be made that Notch's tweets aren't true until we see more evidence. All we have to go on is Notch's tweets, which are a very biased source. So yes, the assumption that the tweets aren't true, by method of not only science and law, but COMMON ****ING SENSE, is automatically more valid than the assumption that they are true. This may change as we get more evidence, but not until then.
Not only that, learn to tell the difference between someone who is trying to point out how stupid your posts are and someone who actually opposes your point of view.
Look, I destroyed your post without using multiple quotes, or a huge post. Do I win an internet now?
Ooh, I am so ****ing scared. You used sarcasm without substance to destroy my post! Oh God what do I do now?
On another note, the Yogscast site is down. I don't know how regularly this happens for them, but it is a tad interesting to note given the current situation.
Sure, they are friendly guys that I would NEVER pass up to meet. But that doesn't prove anything. You can be nice and arrogant at the same time. Being disrespectful doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad person.
Now, you are missing a major point once again. They need to know their place at a kids convention. You know what you are doing when there are 6 year old kids in the audience.
And saying that they made minecraft popular is a HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE thing to do. I almost lost ALL repect for them. Learn your place, yogscast.
EDIT: Does anyone notice that the yogscast has also displayed substantial ignorance in this situation? Lots of biased views here, including me, of course. They need to apologize before trying to defend themselves.
You know, I really hope you are being sarcastic to prove a point because if you really believe this, well, that's just pathetic, especially your edit.
Social Media is not a paid job, and if you're expecting money for it, you should probably negotiate those terms up front, instead of trying to use leverage on the back end of the whole thing.
Who says this is what happened? No one. This is a non-point.
People often forget that times are changing rapidly in society. Yogscast is nothing more then a social media outlet, just as notch on twitter is the same. If I start posting on twitter about a game I like, and become popular, should I then demand money for my services?
No, but I do see where you're going with this and it is one hell of a stretch, even for making a straw-man argument, but I will get to that.
Think if you'd like a service man show up at your house one day, and start remodeling your home, without talking with you, or presenting a contract or etc. Then, when the house comes out really nice, and the neighbors like it, he hands you a bill, and demands that the only reason you're popular with the neighbors, is because he had the good sense to remodel your hideous house for you.
Irrelevant. You are effectively equating a series of crimes with arrogant (but perfectly legal) behavior. Try again.
Blogging doesn't entitle you to compensation, period. If you get compensated, great, however, demanding or expecting it, and being offended if it doesn't happen, is just plain stupid.
And it is your assumption that this happened. There is zero evidence of this.
The fact that people are upset at notch for using his social media outlet, to address the issue of another social media outlet, is just crazy. Yogscast basically used the stage at minecon as a weapon, yet notch posting on twitter is a no no. Makes perfect sense.
Um, no. Notch used his social media outlet to level (thus far) baseless accusations against Yogscast. Notch used his social media outlet as a weapon to defame and possibly commit libel. Yogscast merely used the stage at Minecon to poke a bit of good-natured fun, something which anyone with a sense of humor would have found funny, or at the least, good-naturedly satirical.
Sounds to me like notch and Mojang didn't spell out the terms and conditions for minecon, and yogscast didn't use the best judgement or discretion.
This is perhaps the only sensible thing you say in this post.
You really shouldn't need to tell two grown men, how they need to behave in front of a public audience that includes children, you also shouldn't need to tell them that they aren't entitled to ANYTHING without a prior agreement with Mojang.
Okay, again you are assuming that events occured that there is no evidence of. Moreover, it is starting to become evident that you haven't even watched the panel. I suggest you go and do that.
Nobody was ever forcing yogscast to do this, nobody asked them to continue, they did it of their own free will. Their invitation to minecon was likely extended due to the popularity of the yogscast, and if they had expected to get paid, they could have declined to attend. Instead they chose to show up, and put a half assed effort into it, and insult the game, it's creators, and the fans.
I am starting to think you're just a troll, but just in case you really do believe what you say, I have this. You are making the assumption that Yogscast chose to attend Minecon without pay for the sole purpose of insulting the Minecon, Mojang and fans of both. Wow, that is pretty low. Good thing there is zero evidence of that being the case.
Notch could have kept quiet about the whole thing, and not said a word on twitter, but it wouldn't have changed a single thing, it would have just delayed the entire issue.
Actually, no. He could have handled the thing quietly and not made a big deal out of it. Yogscast simply would not have had a panel at the next Minecon (assuming there is one) and this could have been handled professionally and with class. Notch could have put himself on a level above the perceived wrongs of Yogscast. Instead he chose to go down to that level.
Unless someone can come up with a contract between yogscast and Mojang, it sounds to me like Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, and acted like asshats when they didn't get their way.
Yup, Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, just like you are assuming that Notch's tweets are 100% accurate.
Now, either you are doing one hell of a job trolling or you've got blinders the size of sails over your eyes. Either way, that post deserved to be picked apart.
I would be happy if this turned out to be a major misunderstanding or bizarre troll on Notch's part, pleased as punch. But until either that or an apology from Notch he's in the wrong here.
He's in the wrong only so far as airing this in public is concerned. For this fiasco reaching the heights it has, Notch has sole blame. Everything else is unproven one way or the other. If you look back to my first post on this topic (it's only a few pages back) I have said that no matter what Yogscast's crimes are (if any) that Notch is still to blame for posting anything about his grievances on Twitter at all. The two are related, but separate, matters.
As for his accusations, that's all they are at this point. There is no real evidence to their veracity one way or the other. Now people have their suspicions as to what happened (as I do but I am keeping silent until we see more), but that is all those are. Suspicions equal to little more than opinions and some people here have some heavily biased opinions, largely based on their like/dislike of Yogscast.
As for the bizarre troll, that is looking more and more unlikely, especially with the report of the Notch fan harassing Yogscast at the airport. Whether or not the incident took place, that report should have had all parties come forward and admit the trolling or at least have seen someone say "hey, look, that **** is not okay, don't repeat that behavior".
Yes, let's take one side of the story and prosecute the "villain" of that story with out giving said "villain" an chance to defend their selves.
But seriously, you guys have no idea what has happened besides some rage tweets from notch, speculation, and in general crowd effect.
I for one, while only really starting to watch Yogscast quite recently, will stick to it that they are innocent until proven guilty.
This is basically what I am saying, though certain assholes keep seeing me as supporting one side or the other depending on what preconceived biases that they already hold.
It kind of sucks to be in the position of being insulted and bullied because of other people's flaws.
I don't think he was trying to insult you. At least I didn't get that from his post.
Well, assuming that I think a certain way then saying that I am "either a troll or really dumb" for thinking the way he assumes I am thinking certainly falls clearly into that category for me. I don't know about anyone else.
How dare they ask for money for plane tickets that are going to cost thousands and thousands of dollars for a round trip from the multi-millionaire so they can promote his game.
If you can't understand why the Yogscast would not only want but need compensation for this and deserved compensation for this you're a troll or just really dumb.
Ok, at what ****ing point did I say it was wrong for them to ask? I never did, not once. I have only stated that payment should depend on what agreement was reached. If you have a problem with the concept of a contract, then that's your problem. Not mine.
In the future, I strongly suggest that you think before you insult someone.
Considering Notch was referring to the deliberations over payment in the past tense on his tweets, it sounds like payment had been agreed upon, he was just having sour grapes about it, not that Yogscast had rolled into the con and greeted him with "WHERE MAH MONEY AT *****" out of the blue.
Deliberations over payment might very well have just been a discussion on if payment was to be rendered or not. It might have been that Yogscast asked and Notch was wrankled by the fact that they even asked for payment.
Exactly what I was thinking. However, I'd go one step further and say that everyone who did a panel at Minecon should have been compensated for their expenses, and maybe gotten something extra for their time.
For me, the "should have been" depends on what agreement was made. Now I will say I believe the offer should have been given for payment, but payment should not be automatic. As I said before, this is stuff that needs to be worked out before anything else happens.
1
Yes, it is a place to express one's opinion. However, when one touts their opinion as fact, then they deserve to be called out on it and evidence should be demanded. Why should a forum board be any different than a court in this regard? If you make a claim, back it up or admit that it is your opinion. You have expressed your opinion as fact and therefore I have called you on it. You didn't like that my view was different than your own, so you proceed to insult me and make lame attempts to throw out red herring arguments.
Deliberately attempting to skew my point to add strength to your own argument? I see how this works.
Anyway, what I was saying is that it is only common sense to expect someone who makes a claim to back it up with evidence. No one on any side of this argument has done so, least of all Notch. However, idiots like you defend him in spite of the fact that there is a glaring lack of evidence, making your opinions on the matter your opinions. Nothing more. No amount of aggrandizement by bringing red herrings and straw mans, nor insulting those who do not buy into the ******** will change that. Again, you have zero evidence that any of Notch's claims are true, so that by definition makes your personal judgment a biased opinion. You cannot escape that fact.
*cough*strawman*cough*
Circular logic? Okay, I guess I can pardon that so long as you know it's an intellectual fallacy.
And pray tell, exactly what is it that I have said that is ********? Or is it the fact that you simply don't like what I have to say?
3
I am glad I am not on trial for murder with a jury made up of those assholes.
0
I don't think matters. Blind Yogscast supporters and those who are wanting to hear all sides will watch it regardless and blind Notch supporters have already made up their mind on Yogscast's guilt, so they probably won't.
0
Alright, first, the presumption of innocence is the way things work. In courts, in science, basically everywhere, when one makes claims, they must back them up with evidence. Notch has not done so. Ergo, the assumption must be made that Notch's tweets aren't true until we see more evidence. All we have to go on is Notch's tweets, which are a very biased source. So yes, the assumption that the tweets aren't true, by method of not only science and law, but COMMON ****ING SENSE, is automatically more valid than the assumption that they are true. This may change as we get more evidence, but not until then.
Not only that, learn to tell the difference between someone who is trying to point out how stupid your posts are and someone who actually opposes your point of view.
Ooh, I am so ****ing scared. You used sarcasm without substance to destroy my post! Oh God what do I do now?
0
0
Really? I would think there's a better example of a pretentious asshole that you could compare Notch too. Letterman maybe?
In his defense, I have seen them pucker a few times, but that's it.
0
Edit- It's back up. Must have been a glitch.
0
You know, I really hope you are being sarcastic to prove a point because if you really believe this, well, that's just pathetic, especially your edit.
0
Who says this is what happened? No one. This is a non-point.
No, but I do see where you're going with this and it is one hell of a stretch, even for making a straw-man argument, but I will get to that.
Irrelevant. You are effectively equating a series of crimes with arrogant (but perfectly legal) behavior. Try again.
And it is your assumption that this happened. There is zero evidence of this.
Um, no. Notch used his social media outlet to level (thus far) baseless accusations against Yogscast. Notch used his social media outlet as a weapon to defame and possibly commit libel. Yogscast merely used the stage at Minecon to poke a bit of good-natured fun, something which anyone with a sense of humor would have found funny, or at the least, good-naturedly satirical.
This is perhaps the only sensible thing you say in this post.
Okay, again you are assuming that events occured that there is no evidence of. Moreover, it is starting to become evident that you haven't even watched the panel. I suggest you go and do that.
I am starting to think you're just a troll, but just in case you really do believe what you say, I have this. You are making the assumption that Yogscast chose to attend Minecon without pay for the sole purpose of insulting the Minecon, Mojang and fans of both. Wow, that is pretty low. Good thing there is zero evidence of that being the case.
Actually, no. He could have handled the thing quietly and not made a big deal out of it. Yogscast simply would not have had a panel at the next Minecon (assuming there is one) and this could have been handled professionally and with class. Notch could have put himself on a level above the perceived wrongs of Yogscast. Instead he chose to go down to that level.
Yup, Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, just like you are assuming that Notch's tweets are 100% accurate.
Now, either you are doing one hell of a job trolling or you've got blinders the size of sails over your eyes. Either way, that post deserved to be picked apart.
0
He's in the wrong only so far as airing this in public is concerned. For this fiasco reaching the heights it has, Notch has sole blame. Everything else is unproven one way or the other. If you look back to my first post on this topic (it's only a few pages back) I have said that no matter what Yogscast's crimes are (if any) that Notch is still to blame for posting anything about his grievances on Twitter at all. The two are related, but separate, matters.
As for his accusations, that's all they are at this point. There is no real evidence to their veracity one way or the other. Now people have their suspicions as to what happened (as I do but I am keeping silent until we see more), but that is all those are. Suspicions equal to little more than opinions and some people here have some heavily biased opinions, largely based on their like/dislike of Yogscast.
As for the bizarre troll, that is looking more and more unlikely, especially with the report of the Notch fan harassing Yogscast at the airport. Whether or not the incident took place, that report should have had all parties come forward and admit the trolling or at least have seen someone say "hey, look, that **** is not okay, don't repeat that behavior".
0
This is basically what I am saying, though certain assholes keep seeing me as supporting one side or the other depending on what preconceived biases that they already hold.
It kind of sucks to be in the position of being insulted and bullied because of other people's flaws.
0
Well, assuming that I think a certain way then saying that I am "either a troll or really dumb" for thinking the way he assumes I am thinking certainly falls clearly into that category for me. I don't know about anyone else.
0
Ok, at what ****ing point did I say it was wrong for them to ask? I never did, not once. I have only stated that payment should depend on what agreement was reached. If you have a problem with the concept of a contract, then that's your problem. Not mine.
In the future, I strongly suggest that you think before you insult someone.
0
Deliberations over payment might very well have just been a discussion on if payment was to be rendered or not. It might have been that Yogscast asked and Notch was wrankled by the fact that they even asked for payment.
OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
Wait, nevermind, that's just the gap in Simon's teeth. I should really know better. I used to react the same way to my own gap until I got used to it.
0
For me, the "should have been" depends on what agreement was made. Now I will say I believe the offer should have been given for payment, but payment should not be automatic. As I said before, this is stuff that needs to be worked out before anything else happens.