A lot of people are complaining about Survival Multiplayer, which is currently unfinished.
Take a look at this screenshot of the multiplayer page, and read what it says.
I hope this clears up some issues and complaints about SMP.
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Nov 4, 2010ToxsikKilla posted a message on I would like to clarify something with everyonePosted in: Alpha - Survival Multiplayer Discussion
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on A reason against infinite MP maps.Ever played TF2? Or any other source game for that matter?Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
Want to know why it is incredibly difficult to hack? Because all movement is handled server-side. In fact, the server does pretty much everything, all the client does is render the current game session and "predict" how the client will move.
The only way to go faster in a game like TF2 would be to modify a server cvar, which cannot be done by a normal user without sv_cheats on.
So, basically, the simple fix to this speedhack problem would be to make most calculations server-side, and include client-side physics prediction. If someone uses a speedhack, they would begin moving very quickly, then the server would say "you are here" and you would be instantly warped back to where you should be every game tick.
Therefore, hacking would be a very nauseating experience, with jittery movement and frustrating controls.
If you would like to read more about how the source engine handles internet gaming, just read up on their netcode on the valve developer website. I learned quite a bit about how internet gaming works there. :smile.gif:
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on To those hating on Land-Claim FlagsWhat about capturable flags? I dont see too many problems with it, but yes, there are still problems with them, as with anything. With them, I can destroy those gigantic penises by blowing a hole in your penis, capturing the flag, and then removing the penis. Happy now?Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on To those hating on Land-Claim FlagsI agree with you, I believe that the community is split on the issue, but we can't really know whats best until some proper play-testing is done. Land claim flags shouldn't be disabled immediately on release of multiplayer, and if they are disabled, it must be clear to the users of the server. Otherwise, new players may join a server with them then join another without and get very confused and frustrated.Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on "Official" Multiplayer Survival Griefing Discussion ThreadI believe that there is nothing wrong with stealing, I think it is a good and fun game mechanic that arises from the ability to use chests. But it shouldn't be easy for one person. Therefore there should be some sort of balancing system to make it worthwhile for both the attackers AND defenders. Right now it is just FAR too easy for an attacker to beat the defender, we need some sort of balancing system, I have suggested using capturable land claim flags as a way to balance the gameplay a bit, and settling blocks is another good idea, maybe have blocks settle based on the weight applied on them from above? (higher walls = stronger bases)Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
Basically, I think thieving/raiding is a terrific idea, and I have never thought contrary to this. It just has to be balanced so that it is fair for everyone.
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on In SMP There is NO GRIEFINGUm, I don't know if you guys agree, but if someone joins a server, makes a wooden pickaxe, mines your cobblestone wall away, walks into your base and steals everything from your chests that you worked hard to get. Would you not call that griefing? They have invested no time in the server, yet have everything they need to more than survive, but THRIVE.Posted in: Discussion
They could just throw the stuff into lava and then just join another server to do it again, is THAT not griefing?
0Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from DEElekgolo »Gameplay would be more of a conquest rather than actual survival.
Would people who have claimed land be able to share it with someone?
Yes, you would be able to share with fellow team mates, and sharing could possibly increase the size of the claim.
0Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from Flaky »Quote from ToxsikKilla »EDIT: I just realised something, this land claim flag scenario adds to the winnings if you do manage to successfully capture a building. Along with getting all the goodies in the chests, you can also steal the ENTIRE CREATION! That may be a good or bad thing, but the ability to steal someones sky fort or diamond mine adds to the gains that can be attained by capture of a flag. That could play out to be an interesting and fun mechanic, or a very bad one.
So, it's cool to let anyone take their entire base but not just the stuff inside it. What.
With how this works, you can take the entire base and the stuff inside it, but it is more difficult to do so, and the previous owner/owners of the base can also reclaim their land. Or prevent their land being taken in the first place if they block the capture.
It certainly isn't very nice to have someone take your creation, but at the same time, it makes it worthwhile to both build and defend, and attack and steal.
Long capture times could help with the defending, and this time could be tweaked very easily to balance gameplay for both attackers and defenders (I'm a TF2 player, maybe my ideas are a bit off of that, it is a VERY well balanced game.)
I will certainly look at the other threads on the debate about this, thanks for telling me about them. :smile.gif:
0Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from lucain »
Really? Really? someone who finally agrees with me everything you say is true and to add to that in public games theres probably going to be around 20-40 people a server. So regular non griefers would build a great city lets say then a griefer joins the server then he starts punching your wall..... not much damage huh? so instead the griefer starts to build wooden things and does more damage to your castle but still not a lot? So the griefer makes a mine looks for iron builds a house then attacks again and you know what that means? the griefer isn't a griefer hes a raider who has put actual time into the game if you see my point so griefers cant just go into your server and destroy all your hard work in seconds it actually takes A LOT of time to do anything now there if you see my point griefers wont work all that well since they usually get bored in a couple of seconds if they dont cause destruction so the only people you have to worry about are the hackers who give them selfs limitless tnt.
There is just one problem with your raider argument.
Griefer joins server
Griefer punches down tree
Griefer creates wooden pickaxe
Griefer mines wall of your base
Griefer steals everything
See, this player has not invested much time in the server, yet has still managed to cause damage, and can now leave the server with all of your goodies.
EDIT: I just realised something, this land claim flag scenario adds to the winnings if you do manage to successfully capture a building. Along with getting all the goodies in the chests, you can also steal the ENTIRE CREATION! That may be a good or bad thing, but the ability to steal someones sky fort or diamond mine adds to the gains that can be attained by capture of a flag. That could play out to be an interesting and fun mechanic, or a very bad one.
0Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from Flaky »Oh my god, can we for one single day not talk about this? I mean really, we're cluttered every day with these topics about these magical beings that can detonate the world with one click and can rob everyone of all their possessions from the gigantic landscape in a single night. I've said it before and I'll say it again, any good SMP server will have a registration process at one point or another, may it be in-game or at an external website. Not only that, SMP will be about leveling up. Not with EXP, but with tools, weapons, houses, and armor. Without those you're a punching bag for mobs. You'll have to survive, thus SURVIVAL Multiplayer, get it? People will group up to survive, starting towns and cities, if enough people are on the server. Yes, a loner living in his own little castle can be robbed pretty easily, but if he's a loner he should just play normal survival. Anyone else would be living with multiple people (At least 2 others) who would have build a defense that would be strong enough to stop anyone unwanted. It's survival of the fittest, not survival of the RP wannabes. Land Claim flags will never, ever work in the public. The only place they should ever be allowed is in the "Spawn City" for servers who have them, that's it.
Flaky, I know you may be frustrated by my topic of choice, yet it is an important part of gameplay that MUST be fleshed out before SMP, Notch may just implement what he decides is best though, lets help him get the right ideas.
A registration process is a bit far fetched for most servers. The majority of people are just pubbers who want to have a fun game, lets not make this some clone of some random MMO with private servers and the like.
Yes, people will group up, but what if a loner just sneaked in through a hole in the ground and stole all of your stuff? You do have a good argument that this shouldn't be some kind of RP, but RP uses abstract thought, not gameplay mechanics, to decide who gets to destroy what.
Quote from TacticsAndNiblics »Wait, if it doesn't allow non-owners to place blocks.. how would you have citizens? You need to be able to give someone trust to build something.
Tactics, that is true. But maybe you could give varying levels of trust for varying areas of your establishment.
Quote from VIROS »With the "tenants" system anyone that is added to the list can build and destroy. Maybe if one of the "tenants" is online, the land can be destroyed/built upon then? This means that there has to be at least one owner on for the land to be damaged.
Viros, if no one is online, restricting damage would be silly. But a workaround seems to evade my perception. I have no idea how to fix this problem, anyone else have any?
EDIT: Fixed for clarity.
0ToxsikKilla posted a message on Offence is easier than defence = not goodPosted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from Duke 2.0 »The can't guard it properly seems more a gameplay issue than a user issue. And remember:
Quote from Revan »Plus anything that restricts gameplay or imagination in a sandbox game is just straight up full retard(indestructible blocks, area flag claims, etc)
This is a sandbox game, yet the restrictions on gameplay are not mechanical, but player made, we must help curb these restrictions with gameplay mechanics that restrict everyone in a fair and just way.
You cannot have a completely free game scenario when the allure of stealing something is so great. There must be something to make defending a place easier. I like the settling blocks idea to be honest. :smile.gif:
0Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single PlayerQuote from Eylk »I actually like the idea here, mate. THe only problem I see is your fomula; Such a thing would grant Absurdly large amounts of land to one flag : /
And that is why I am suggesting that you make a better one, because there must be some sort of calculation involved (after all, it is a computer game, computers can't abstract "fair" amounts of playing area without knowing how to calculate fair. :tongue.gif:).
0I see a lot of people on these forums talking about SMP griefing. Yes it is a serious matter, and yes, it will need to be countered by how the server works and not how people play the game itself.Posted in: Alpha - Survival Single Player
Griefers are unavoidable in the context of an online game, they will always be there. So there must be a game mechanic which can work against these fiends in their quests of block destruction.
The goals of a land claim flag system is this
1. Prevent griefing
2. Prevent destruction and placing of blocks (with the exception of TNT perhaps)
3. Allow players to capture the land claim flag (important goal!)
4. Lock chests in the area to the owners of the flag, furnaces are not locked!
5. Have a fair sized area of capture, and allow multiple captures of the same area (teams sharing a flag)
5a. Perhaps to this effect, increase the size of the capture area depending on the number of players?
The land claim flag can reduce griefing of a base by preventing people from climbing over walls, and tunnelling through them. Yet who have spent enough time to amass a large quantity of TNT can easily break through, yet these people will likely be raiders and not griefers.
But what do people do when they break into a castle? They cant do anything at all! They can't steal from the chests, so they can't be rewarded for successfully entering the stronghold! Thats where capturing the flag comes in. They can find the land claim flag and stand near it (perhaps the owner of the flag can be notified, therefore a small group of people can't wipe out a huge base without a counterattack). Once they have captured the flag, they can raid the chests and destroy the castle! How can you prevent this? You can build the locking system you have always dreamed of. :smile.gif:
Locking of chests will prevent thiefs from stealing your items before capturing the area. Furnaces shouldn't be locked, to keep players on their toes.
A fair sized area of capture, well, what is fair? That is a good question for all of us here. Perhaps "fair" is the ( size of the SMP map / the number of players ) * number of owners of the flag - a certain amount.
Perhaps land claim flags may be what we really need, to make SMP fun for all players without becoming unfair for new users. Of course, I might be wrong, and this idea of how the mechanic could work is up for debate.
This is my first post, after seeing all the heated discussion about how SMP will work to stop griefers, I had to post. I hope I am welcome here. :smile.gif:
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