You are being incredibly ignorant. I give you unequivocal evidence with benchmarks and you give a response that is completely untrue. There are plenty of cases in that benchmark that did poorly and some did great. And then you continue to presume I hate the cases you listed or I think the Enthoo Pro is vastly superior to them. You have no idea what you are talking about and even though you try to take an objective approach, you fail. You have provided no benchmarks and only talk about it being bad at air cooling in theory, which even then is poorly supported.
If you refuse to provide objective results, I'm concluding this conversation. The Enthoo Pro is an acceptable case choice for air cooling, whether you think so or not.
The Corsair 500R is running about $150 to $120, except for the white model, which is currently being marked off. These prices are directly off the cheapest options on pcpartpicker. I said about $130 because I forgot I left tax on my preferences. Still, more expensive. Exact same situation with the 530, whose white option is also on sale.
Effective fan placement and good fan design is usually far more important than the mere amount of fans. The FT02 can do with three fans what the Blackhawk Ultra needs nine to do.In that matter, it's obvious that the Pro isn't designed for air cooling and therefore just adding more fans will not bring it up to par with the class-leading 530 or Thor v2 in that respect.
Yes, I agree effective fan placement is good. I fail to see what the Pro lacks in fan mounts. It doesn't have a side fan mount, but thats about the most useless placement of a fan on a case, other than maybe the bottom. It has room for three 140mm on top or one 200mm. Since the 200mm in front will be pulling enough air for the system, I'd probably put a 200mm or 140mm on the top of the pro as exhaust.
That doesn't change the fact it's a gimmick feature.
A gimmick feature is useless to most people. To most people having a case for your screws is useful. By that logic, why don't we call everything that makes your life easier on a case a "gimmick feature".
That's my point though: the case is designed to be extensively modified and upgraded to fit the user's needs, rather than being a stellar out-of-the-box solution for every job.
Its more than adequate out of the box.
Yes, I believe we established that already.It's a single intake fan and a single exhaust fan placed tremendously far from the PCIe slots. I highly doub that'll feed multiple GPUs well.Adding more fans won't necessarily make it compare favorably with the 530/Thor v2, and now you also have cost to deal with.
I've seen miniITX cases take far more daunting tasks than just two GPUs and those have far worse cooling options. The fans are also relatively large, so they will pull a decent amount of air.
Define the term "user experience". Just building in it? Well, that's certainly subjective.
Building in it, upgrading it later, doing cable management. It means what it means. User experience is any time the user has used the case for anything. Its not subjective at all.
But comparatively speaking, each of these specialized enclosures is better at what they do than the similarly specialized Enthoo. The 500R and Arc Midi are highly expandable air cooling enclosures. They're not designed to fit an absurd number of radiators similar to what the Enthoo can do. The Phantom 530 and Thor v2 are similarly designed, however they work better out of the box and offer more space to work with should you need that. Unlike the Enthoo, they can handle a multi-GPU setup on air with stock cooling, no problem. The Deep Silence is (unsurprisingly) designed for absolute silence, and it does that job very well. But you can't just take it and turn it into a fully moddable water cooling case like the Enthoo. It's not designed for that.
I don't think the 500r and Arc midi cool that much better than the Pro. You bring up fan placement, but the 500R only allows you to place a 200mm fan on the side, which is unbelievably stupid. You also bring up how the exhaust is too far from the PCI-E slots, but I don't think that makes that big of a difference when heat rises anyway, it'll move to the exhaust on its own. I realize that these cases are not designed for everything, but the Enthoo Pro has plenty of options for air cooling. They have more than enough mounts that are in good placement and the two fans included are enough for even the above average build.
Benchmarks show the Enthoo Pro performs not that far off from the cases you listed. So maybe you shouldn't assume it has "bad design" in air cooling due to the number of fans.
All of those can easily be found for around $100 like the Pro except for the 530, which typically goes for around $115-120 and offers probably the best air cooling you can get at that price (excepting the Thor v2).
The only times I found those cases at $100 was when they were on a deal, and only in one color. I see them usually going for around $130.
Not quite.
A man of many words I see. You plan to explain or just say no?
So does everything else I listedmultiple places for to use the SSD brackets,Phantom 530
I'm not comparing cases, I'm addressing you calling it mediocre in everything but water cooling. Yes, those cases also have many of the things I listed.
Although cool, I fail to see its practical use
Organization. Plastic baggies are easy to misplace, lose, or misuse.
Which just means if you're going to extensively mod [aka water cooling] it's a good enclosure.
The modding community does far more than water cooling.
So does everything else I listed.
Again, not comparing those cases, just addressing that it is a good case.
Ignoring water cooling, the only thing you would need a full tower over a mid tower for is multi-GPU configurations, and the Pro definitely can't handle those thermally.
They can store more drives usually. Not to mention more space to work with in your build. I'd say that you are underestimating the cooling a bit too much. Is it great cooling? No, but I think it could handle multiple GPUs as long as you have something more than a reference cooler and you aren't buying two R9 290Xs, in which case you probably have enough money to buy enough fans to make the case run way cooler.
Uh, how?
You listed "mediocre in everything else", when obviously this case has great user experience.
The 500R is one of the easiest enclosures to assemble in period, and I doubt the other two (having actually assembled my current setup in the AMR2)
When did I say the 500R is hard to assemble. I like the 500R, I also like the Enthoo Pro. I never once bashed any of those cases. Quit assuming, I am being quite straight forward with what I'm writing.
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Do you need a definition?
You can technically say that about any case though.
The Deep Silence 1 probably has it beat on noise and the Phantom 530/500R/Arc Midi R2 have it beat on all out cooling.
It's designed for water cooling and mediocre at everything else.
All those cases are more expensive than the Enthoo Pro, except for the Arc Midi R2. If Phanteks added more fans, it would drive up the price. Add a fan, boom, basically equal cooling for the same price. However, I think the current air cooling in the Pro is more than good enough.
I wouldn't say its "mediocre" at everything else. So far, all you have listed is air cooling. I'd say it has amazing tool less design, it has a built in PWM fan hub, multiple places for to use the SSD brackets, a great plastic brushed aluminum look, it actually includes a box to organize your screws, uses screws instead of rivets for modders, has some of the best cable management options with both zip ties and nice looking velcro, and you are getting a full tower. For the price, its hard to beat. While I agree cooling and objective measurements are important, you are looking over user experience, ease of use, and modularity. Not to mention subjectivity to looks plays a large role in the choice of cases.
Off topic tangent: Haven't been on in a while, but decided to revisit as I'm getting a new build soon. At least some people are still here helping with builds though, so that's good.
Well I haven't defined X in x*2x, but I can say it's 2x2.
No, he meant you gave us a vague expression. You didn't tell what x equals or if we're solving for x, taking the derivative, etc. And yes, you can post math here.
Chances are right now you have a low grade job so please come back to me after you get some education and a decent job....
Anyone with a decent job wouldn't join your game dev team. I know people jobless who wouldn't join it either. Unless you can offer 40K a year (bottom level), you won't get any educated programmers.
You prove to have no opportunity for people. In fact, what is your job? Other than to find "game developers"? Can you program? Graphic design? Anything? You have no serious ideas presented in this thread.
I usually don't post anymore, but the amount of ignorance in this thread is ridiculous.
In high-quality game development, C++ can squeeze out extra optimization where memory-managed languages like Java and C# can't.
For indie developers, the only reason you might want C++ over Java is if you didn't want to rely on the users installing (the correct version of) Java and instead wanted a native program that doesn't require additional software.
That's mostly who I was targeting. My statement was too broad. I really meant only in relation to small time developers/amateurs/beginners. My bad.
Google Nexus 5. Not too many people have it, reliable phone, stock android. $350
If you want a phone from some hipster brand, good luck. It takes a big company to make a successful phone. BTW, Nokia is considered a big company. They used to be the number one phone seller. Though that was partly because they have a huge market in India.
The only real big company in android is Samsung if you look at the numbers. They hold about over 60% of the android market share. HTC holds a measly 6%.
Why do you care if you have a "unique" phone? Just go try to find a phone with Tizen if you want to feel real special. Android is just way too mainstream
My assumption was the fact you spent less than $100 on the headphones, and don't already have a sound card. My apologies.
If you care about your audio, I'm sure you'll want to get better ones in the future. Would be worth it to get a sound card now then, imo.
The amount you spend on headphones has nothing to do with it. If that would be the case, the whole mid level audio gear would be beats by dre. No. I've seen $50 cans that can wipe the face off $200 cans. Fostex T50RPs, for example, are great headphones for $100, especially if you modify them. By money standards, modified ones start at about $300 because they sound so good.
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If you refuse to provide objective results, I'm concluding this conversation. The Enthoo Pro is an acceptable case choice for air cooling, whether you think so or not.
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The Corsair 500R is running about $150 to $120, except for the white model, which is currently being marked off. These prices are directly off the cheapest options on pcpartpicker. I said about $130 because I forgot I left tax on my preferences. Still, more expensive. Exact same situation with the 530, whose white option is also on sale.
Yes, I agree effective fan placement is good. I fail to see what the Pro lacks in fan mounts. It doesn't have a side fan mount, but thats about the most useless placement of a fan on a case, other than maybe the bottom. It has room for three 140mm on top or one 200mm. Since the 200mm in front will be pulling enough air for the system, I'd probably put a 200mm or 140mm on the top of the pro as exhaust.
A gimmick feature is useless to most people. To most people having a case for your screws is useful. By that logic, why don't we call everything that makes your life easier on a case a "gimmick feature".
Its more than adequate out of the box.
I've seen miniITX cases take far more daunting tasks than just two GPUs and those have far worse cooling options. The fans are also relatively large, so they will pull a decent amount of air.
Building in it, upgrading it later, doing cable management. It means what it means. User experience is any time the user has used the case for anything. Its not subjective at all.
I don't think the 500r and Arc midi cool that much better than the Pro. You bring up fan placement, but the 500R only allows you to place a 200mm fan on the side, which is unbelievably stupid. You also bring up how the exhaust is too far from the PCI-E slots, but I don't think that makes that big of a difference when heat rises anyway, it'll move to the exhaust on its own. I realize that these cases are not designed for everything, but the Enthoo Pro has plenty of options for air cooling. They have more than enough mounts that are in good placement and the two fans included are enough for even the above average build.
Benchmarks show the Enthoo Pro performs not that far off from the cases you listed. So maybe you shouldn't assume it has "bad design" in air cooling due to the number of fans.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2014/05/06/phanteks-enthoo-pro-review/3
Fair enough, it may not be that practical, but if you want to take the drive cage out, or anything like that, that option is there.
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The only times I found those cases at $100 was when they were on a deal, and only in one color. I see them usually going for around $130.
A man of many words I see. You plan to explain or just say no?
I'm not comparing cases, I'm addressing you calling it mediocre in everything but water cooling. Yes, those cases also have many of the things I listed.
Organization. Plastic baggies are easy to misplace, lose, or misuse.
The modding community does far more than water cooling.
Again, not comparing those cases, just addressing that it is a good case.
They can store more drives usually. Not to mention more space to work with in your build. I'd say that you are underestimating the cooling a bit too much. Is it great cooling? No, but I think it could handle multiple GPUs as long as you have something more than a reference cooler and you aren't buying two R9 290Xs, in which case you probably have enough money to buy enough fans to make the case run way cooler.
You listed "mediocre in everything else", when obviously this case has great user experience.
When did I say the 500R is hard to assemble. I like the 500R, I also like the Enthoo Pro. I never once bashed any of those cases. Quit assuming, I am being quite straight forward with what I'm writing.
Do you need a definition?
Last time, I'm not comparing.
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All those cases are more expensive than the Enthoo Pro, except for the Arc Midi R2. If Phanteks added more fans, it would drive up the price. Add a fan, boom, basically equal cooling for the same price. However, I think the current air cooling in the Pro is more than good enough.
I wouldn't say its "mediocre" at everything else. So far, all you have listed is air cooling. I'd say it has amazing tool less design, it has a built in PWM fan hub, multiple places for to use the SSD brackets, a great plastic brushed aluminum look, it actually includes a box to organize your screws, uses screws instead of rivets for modders, has some of the best cable management options with both zip ties and nice looking velcro, and you are getting a full tower. For the price, its hard to beat. While I agree cooling and objective measurements are important, you are looking over user experience, ease of use, and modularity. Not to mention subjectivity to looks plays a large role in the choice of cases.
Off topic tangent: Haven't been on in a while, but decided to revisit as I'm getting a new build soon. At least some people are still here helping with builds though, so that's good.
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No, he meant you gave us a vague expression. You didn't tell what x equals or if we're solving for x, taking the derivative, etc. And yes, you can post math here.
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Anyone with a decent job wouldn't join your game dev team. I know people jobless who wouldn't join it either. Unless you can offer 40K a year (bottom level), you won't get any educated programmers.
You prove to have no opportunity for people. In fact, what is your job? Other than to find "game developers"? Can you program? Graphic design? Anything? You have no serious ideas presented in this thread.
I usually don't post anymore, but the amount of ignorance in this thread is ridiculous.
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That's mostly who I was targeting. My statement was too broad. I really meant only in relation to small time developers/amateurs/beginners. My bad.
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Let me ask this: What do you do in C++ for game development that can't be done in Java?
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Why would you even bother doing that though? Neither of those give you any advantage over java, at all, on the android platform.
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Google Nexus 5. Not too many people have it, reliable phone, stock android. $350
If you want a phone from some hipster brand, good luck. It takes a big company to make a successful phone. BTW, Nokia is considered a big company. They used to be the number one phone seller. Though that was partly because they have a huge market in India.
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Good point.
The only real big company in android is Samsung if you look at the numbers. They hold about over 60% of the android market share. HTC holds a measly 6%.
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ALL the choices? Think for a moment exactly how many choices there might be. More than can ever be listed or have ever been listed.
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The amount you spend on headphones has nothing to do with it. If that would be the case, the whole mid level audio gear would be beats by dre. No. I've seen $50 cans that can wipe the face off $200 cans. Fostex T50RPs, for example, are great headphones for $100, especially if you modify them. By money standards, modified ones start at about $300 because they sound so good.