Minecraft is a blocky game. The current Steve is blocky. The old Steve was not. I was playing the game when there was still Ranna and such, and i really did not like them. They didnt match a t all. It felt like I was playing animal crossing.
Incredibly original. I've heard nothing to that effect since I started this thread. Thank you, kind sir, for your refreshing insight.
Quote from manomow »
Your trying to shove the concept that "the old steve would be best for the game" down peoples throats.
No, as a matter of fact, I'm not. If I was trying to shove anything down anybody's throats this thread would have been locked long ago. You are not obligated in any way to even read the thread, so you analogy fails. I'm simply defending my opinion. You on the other hand are made uneasy by the fact that I'm not accepting your line of thinking and so project this intolerant persona on me so you can be at ease with the knowledge that I'm just a rude and ignorant simpleton who will never accept the "simple facts".
Quote from manomow »
Dock made the models, notch added them, the community didnt like them, Notch took them out, Dock got fired.
No, that is not the reason Dock left at all. Notch was not use to having to wait on someone else for something for his game i.e. the animations. Notch decided to go it solo and so cut Dock loose. But because he didn't want to deal with the difficulty of figuring out what he'd owe Dock from then on, he just removed all of Dock's stuff to make it easy: nothing.
One thing I like about cube-shaped models and low res textures: with a little ingenuity and pixel art skill you can trick the human eyes into seeing different shapes, e.g. applying shadow, noise and gradients to make a cube look like a ball with spikes. Complex models and high res textures will pretty much annihilate this possibility.
I even tried to make those cubic hands to look like real hands, as you can see here:
BTW the model needs more animation; the recent sneaking (and dog sitting) "animations" prove it's possible even without adding bending knees and elbows
First. I greatly appreciate the civility with which you made your point. It's much more appealing than the thinly veiled ad hominem responses that I'm accustom to.
However, what you are saying is not new. Not new to this thread, not even knew to the internet, or computers in general. This is a well known an and established fact from the time of 2D platformers and sprites. But the point is we've move past it. Long past it. We sought to have better renditions of our imaginations than 8bit sprites. Perhaps the only reason such things were tolerable back then was because they were a step above black and white text, just as we wouldn't accept the graphics of a Nintendo 64 on any of our modern platforms. As much detail can be lavished on a scene through the written word as it can be with ink or pixels. Yet we are not crying out for a text based version of Minecraft. The point is, your argument sounds little better than rationalizing, I'm sorry to say. Like saying, "We don't need a door, we have dirt blocks".
And there certainly are significant limitations to what can be articulated on our model. You cannot create circles. At least not without devoting a large portion of the model's torso for the illusion. You might cite the eyes, but the only reason we would make that leap is because we already associate eyes with circles, and with their location on a human, etc. It's essentially a cognitive bias. So it is with just about anything you attempt to create. It's only because we are already familiar with what you are attempting to convey that it is recognized. Remove your experiences from your perception and your ruse becomes quite a bit less clever. But nobody mistakes the real thing for anything but that, so why should we settle something so far removed?
I respectfully, but adamantly disagree. In what ways are we NOT limited?
Quote from khashai »
But I feel that ultimately the arguments against updating the model outweigh the arguments for.
Really? So far all I've heard are a few people whine how it will temporarily and mildly inconvenience them because their current skin won't work on a new model. Cry me a river. As I've said before, it's resistance to change. Nothing more. That argument doesn't validate my requested change, but neither does it invalidate it. It's just an inarticulate way for someone to say they're too lazy. Though I'd be willing to bet that if there was a sudden drastic change to the model, that nobody would flat out stop playing. Or stop playing at all for that matter.
Minethiests.
God:None.
These people believe in no god. They believe in the "Multi-World Theory" and "Programming Theory"
Multi-World Theory = Different worlds are created at very frequency and random rates. No two worlds are the same, there is no known way to cross from one to another.
Programming Theory = Worlds are created and maintained by a complex system of data and coding. This system determines what exist and it's properties and behaviors in MineCraft.
Ok to do:Depends.
Not ok to do:Depends.
Fixed.
Also.
Name: Netherians
God: Anúba'al
Description: Nergal is worshiped almost exclusively by pigmen who, not being part of Notch's divine plan, seek to extend their short lives in Tartarus (The Nether in the human languages). Those devoted enough to Nergal live a semi tormented live in the Nether, where they plot the overthrow of humans and their increasingly distant "Notch" so that Nergal may take take his rightful seat over Minecraft.
Lore: In the beginning Notch made Minecraft, the humans, and the pigs. There was no death, and the humans were happy. But the pigmen were not, for Notch had made the humans to rule over the pigs and pigmen, that humans might eat of the flesh of the pig and pigmen. But whispers the pigmen heard, from deep in the world. And Nergal gave them visions of things to come. And so the pigmen, who knew of human greed, tricked humans and told them of wealth below the unbreakable black stone. And humans dug deep into the earth in search of this wealth. But what they found was Nergal, who brought black death into Minecraft so humans would fear for their lives, and their wealth. Notch saw what was done and was displeased, but raced to save his humans. A great battle was waged but Nergal could not vanquish Notch, nor could Notch dispatch Nergal. Both grew weak. But Notch, in with what strength remained him, banished Nergal beneath the unbreakable black rock, to the land of fire and molten stone. But Nergal still reaches the minds of men, and whispers the secrets of obsidian portals and the promises of glowing stones, luring them to their death. And so regains his strength one soul at a time, until the blessed day when he might break his great adminium prison and strike down the false gods.
What say, ye? Probably more of a WIP than a finished product. I got a little carried away I think, but it's okay so far, I believe.
While I agree with this completely (especially grabbing a ledge), I was only posting on what is currently in game.
There are many other things I would want, such as some animation/reaction for when you fall a long distance (drop 20 meters, and run off normally? Yeah, don't think so), reaction for taking damage in general, climbing ladders, actually shooting a bow, not a minigun of arrows, swinging a sword, not waving it like a wand and dealing damage, etc.
But for now, keeping it simple, having some joints and basic animations would be great for this game.
And I can respect that people wouldn't necessarily want Steve back. The title was just to grab attention. What get's me is how people can't even concede that adding anything to our current model would be anything but a bad thing. But, it's just fear of change is all.
Agreed. Its not like you're saying we need 100 animations either.
I would love to have an elbow and a knee...
And something that looks like swimming...
And something that looks like jumping...
3 animations (including the fix to the regular walking), the game is still "blocky," and the character isn't doing some half retarded slide-walk everywhere he goes.
I would add crawling and ledge grabbing as well. Not simply to see them, but because those two animations would add incredible depth to our already deep experiences, especially Adventure maps. What's would be more scary than to enter a room, from which the sounds of zombies can be heard, on all fours in a position you can't possibly defend yourself in until you are clear to stand up.
And the ledge grab would give us just a hair more reach in game. Currently you can only leap two blocks over, or one over and one up. I've managed two over and one up, but the timing has to be PERFECT. However, in both of these cases you MUST land flat on your feet. It just seems ridiculous that if we were to jump from one ledge to another perhaps three blocks over, or maybe one above our head, that we are prohibited from using our hands (or whatever the Minecraft equivalent is) to assist us.
I'm not quite sure. I do absolutely hate our model having 1 basic animation of swinging arms back and forth for everything, but I am not sure I like the old one too much either. Might be a little bit of "it doesn't feel... minecrafty," or maybe just the proportions are weird, but not fond of him either.
And I can respect that people wouldn't necessarily want Steve back. The title was just to grab attention. What get's me is how people can't even concede that adding anything to our current model would be anything but a bad thing. But, it's just fear of change is all.
OK I'm about to bring in an opinion into here that i haven't seen ONCE, and ill let you all know that i read this whole forum very thoroughly. First i should say that it seems to me that you are all being very hostile towards this guy who just put his opinion out there.
Now for my opinion. A long while back after i had already been playing minecraft for a long time, I went to a place called "Minepedia" ooooh. And there i found the removed mobs section. I discovered Steve, and when i got a good look at him, I INSTANTLY fell in love with the character, maybe because of my strong inner child that really likes that kind of style. Well, after i saw him, i looked back at the character we have now and thought to myself "Wow, our character is f***ing ugly" Now i do agree with some of these people in the sense that a curvy character might not be the best thing for minecraft, but we do definitely need some improvements on the one we have. Perhaps one that doesn't look like a 3D version of a 5-year olds drawing. And how can you people think a more detailed character wont be customizable? You people should play more computer games, because in even some of the most detailed games, people find ways to change how their character looks, and a new character would still use a flat color template.
Personally i thought Steve was awesome, and i wish i could have been there to play during his short time in minecraft. And the truth is though, a character exactly like Steve shouldn't be implemented, but a character better than "Steve?" should be. And better animations all around for the character would be amazing no matter what the character looked like. Also, just to finish off, I want real hands and feet damnit!!
Thank you. Very eloquent. I can now say I have three whole supporters. lol.
Quote from Robosprog »
Use barely cuboid shapes that would render every skin made obsolete and use a model that does not fit the theme instead?
No thanks.
If you have the time, place TNT under their floor, and have a random pressure plate in the middle of their floor.
Put a sign up over the plate that reads "Step on Me".
Lawl Festival.
O.o That's the best you can come up with?
No, the humor scales with the trap's complexity. Any nimrod can deactivate a bit of TNT tripped by a single pressure plate. Have you ever watched as a a player confidently begins disarming your trap, only to find that you put multiple redundancies and dummy traps into it? Watching as the act of disarming what they think to be the actual trap actually sets off a series of hidden and unexpected batches of TNT. Now THAT is hilarious.
It's mostly about the limitations of the platform, flash. Since we are creating a huge map for even one layer, multiple layers will cost multiple data (every single terrain + block data that is about 512*512) storage and it's not feasible right now.
Well even if you can't make more than one layer this could turn out to be a pretty cool game. You could make it into a more accessible version of DF. If you add some simply friendly AI to assist the player and then add in enemy AI that comes in waves to kill them all. It would be much like the survival test of MC. No real goal, players just seeing how long they can survive the hordes.
Some notes though. You need to have a way to pick up and place whole stacks. Half stacks would be usefull too, but whole stacks is a must. It's a pain in the ass having to place each item individually, and then if you accidentally go over you have to start over.
It also might help to place the item count in the top left or right corner. I only say this because when you have an item picked up you can't tell how many of it you have in your hand. A minor problem because you should know how much you picked up, but just something I noticed.
So this isn't entirely new but I want some new perspective.
When 1.4 came out and Notch said that you can now sneak on a ladder to stop moving, the very first thing I went and tested was to see how low on a ladder I could get before I fell of. Sadly I feel off just before I could see the underside of the block the ladder was on. But it's an improvement. At least we can get that far. But what, if anything, do you think Notch could do to the game to allow us that extra half block so we can build things from the top down? There must be a way and I'm sure someone out there has a simple idea that could reach that goal. Thus far all I can think of is allowing us to hang on to ladders longer, but I'm not sure how that would work. Any ideas?
And don't say the water method. It's clumsy and tedious. Not to mention the ridiculousness that is our ability to swim up a waterfall to do construction.
Sappers have to bear in mind having 2 TnT placed next to each other wastes much explosive power. It's not like overlapping blasts explode any harder.
I don't even use strips as even then explosive power is wasted, I use a grid with 3-4 spaces in between each TNT trying to arm them with redstone so they go off all at once, Unless I want to make a large cluster bomb.
That's what I've mostly found. Unless I'm using them to build a tunnel, it's best that their respective explosions not overlap the least little bit, in the interest of maximizing the damage (and minimizing the cost to you, of course).
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Incredibly original. I've heard nothing to that effect since I started this thread. Thank you, kind sir, for your refreshing insight.
No, as a matter of fact, I'm not. If I was trying to shove anything down anybody's throats this thread would have been locked long ago. You are not obligated in any way to even read the thread, so you analogy fails. I'm simply defending my opinion. You on the other hand are made uneasy by the fact that I'm not accepting your line of thinking and so project this intolerant persona on me so you can be at ease with the knowledge that I'm just a rude and ignorant simpleton who will never accept the "simple facts".
No, that is not the reason Dock left at all. Notch was not use to having to wait on someone else for something for his game i.e. the animations. Notch decided to go it solo and so cut Dock loose. But because he didn't want to deal with the difficulty of figuring out what he'd owe Dock from then on, he just removed all of Dock's stuff to make it easy: nothing.
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First. I greatly appreciate the civility with which you made your point. It's much more appealing than the thinly veiled ad hominem responses that I'm accustom to.
However, what you are saying is not new. Not new to this thread, not even knew to the internet, or computers in general. This is a well known an and established fact from the time of 2D platformers and sprites. But the point is we've move past it. Long past it. We sought to have better renditions of our imaginations than 8bit sprites. Perhaps the only reason such things were tolerable back then was because they were a step above black and white text, just as we wouldn't accept the graphics of a Nintendo 64 on any of our modern platforms. As much detail can be lavished on a scene through the written word as it can be with ink or pixels. Yet we are not crying out for a text based version of Minecraft. The point is, your argument sounds little better than rationalizing, I'm sorry to say. Like saying, "We don't need a door, we have dirt blocks".
And there certainly are significant limitations to what can be articulated on our model. You cannot create circles. At least not without devoting a large portion of the model's torso for the illusion. You might cite the eyes, but the only reason we would make that leap is because we already associate eyes with circles, and with their location on a human, etc. It's essentially a cognitive bias. So it is with just about anything you attempt to create. It's only because we are already familiar with what you are attempting to convey that it is recognized. Remove your experiences from your perception and your ruse becomes quite a bit less clever. But nobody mistakes the real thing for anything but that, so why should we settle something so far removed?
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I respectfully, but adamantly disagree. In what ways are we NOT limited?
Really? So far all I've heard are a few people whine how it will temporarily and mildly inconvenience them because their current skin won't work on a new model. Cry me a river. As I've said before, it's resistance to change. Nothing more. That argument doesn't validate my requested change, but neither does it invalidate it. It's just an inarticulate way for someone to say they're too lazy. Though I'd be willing to bet that if there was a sudden drastic change to the model, that nobody would flat out stop playing. Or stop playing at all for that matter.
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Fixed.
Also.
What say, ye? Probably more of a WIP than a finished product. I got a little carried away I think, but it's okay so far, I believe.
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Indeed.
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I would add crawling and ledge grabbing as well. Not simply to see them, but because those two animations would add incredible depth to our already deep experiences, especially Adventure maps. What's would be more scary than to enter a room, from which the sounds of zombies can be heard, on all fours in a position you can't possibly defend yourself in until you are clear to stand up.
And the ledge grab would give us just a hair more reach in game. Currently you can only leap two blocks over, or one over and one up. I've managed two over and one up, but the timing has to be PERFECT. However, in both of these cases you MUST land flat on your feet. It just seems ridiculous that if we were to jump from one ledge to another perhaps three blocks over, or maybe one above our head, that we are prohibited from using our hands (or whatever the Minecraft equivalent is) to assist us.
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Huzzah!
And I can respect that people wouldn't necessarily want Steve back. The title was just to grab attention. What get's me is how people can't even concede that adding anything to our current model would be anything but a bad thing. But, it's just fear of change is all.
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Thank you. Very eloquent. I can now say I have three whole supporters. lol.
Not big on reading, are you?
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O.o That's the best you can come up with?
No, the humor scales with the trap's complexity. Any nimrod can deactivate a bit of TNT tripped by a single pressure plate. Have you ever watched as a a player confidently begins disarming your trap, only to find that you put multiple redundancies and dummy traps into it? Watching as the act of disarming what they think to be the actual trap actually sets off a series of hidden and unexpected batches of TNT. Now THAT is hilarious.
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Well even if you can't make more than one layer this could turn out to be a pretty cool game. You could make it into a more accessible version of DF. If you add some simply friendly AI to assist the player and then add in enemy AI that comes in waves to kill them all. It would be much like the survival test of MC. No real goal, players just seeing how long they can survive the hordes.
Some notes though. You need to have a way to pick up and place whole stacks. Half stacks would be usefull too, but whole stacks is a must. It's a pain in the ass having to place each item individually, and then if you accidentally go over you have to start over.
It also might help to place the item count in the top left or right corner. I only say this because when you have an item picked up you can't tell how many of it you have in your hand. A minor problem because you should know how much you picked up, but just something I noticed.
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I meant legitimate ways.
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When 1.4 came out and Notch said that you can now sneak on a ladder to stop moving, the very first thing I went and tested was to see how low on a ladder I could get before I fell of. Sadly I feel off just before I could see the underside of the block the ladder was on. But it's an improvement. At least we can get that far. But what, if anything, do you think Notch could do to the game to allow us that extra half block so we can build things from the top down? There must be a way and I'm sure someone out there has a simple idea that could reach that goal. Thus far all I can think of is allowing us to hang on to ladders longer, but I'm not sure how that would work. Any ideas?
And don't say the water method. It's clumsy and tedious. Not to mention the ridiculousness that is our ability to swim up a waterfall to do construction.
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That's what I've mostly found. Unless I'm using them to build a tunnel, it's best that their respective explosions not overlap the least little bit, in the interest of maximizing the damage (and minimizing the cost to you, of course).