• 2

    posted a message on Blockology - The study of the world of Minecraft
    Quote from MeowCat50»

    This is so confusing! :blink:


    Correct.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on The Jeb who stole Minecraft

    The OP has some valid points. While I don't agree with everything he has said, I do agree that Minecraft did feel different back in the day. Let me try to articulate it a bit.


    One of the most common descriptors of "Old Minecraft" was a "cozy" feel (most of these descriptors are aesthetic, and are very hard to pin down). I think that was mostly from our own play-style however, as well as the general feel of the community. Recently I had an interesting experience where I somehow got that feeling back playing on a 1.8 whitelisted vanilla survival server. The server had recently had a hard drive failure, and so the whitelist was wiped out. I was one of the first to be re-added, and so for a while, I was playing on an essentially empty server, but anticipating the return of old friends. I was also playing differently than I normally do. I wasn't trying to dominate the world, or become powerful. My goal was to create a cool looking castle (I am no good at building, but I've practiced a lot throughout the years). I don't know exactly how this all fits together, but that was my experience.


    Another part of that old feel was somewhere between wonder and fright. The world seemed limitless, but as time went on, for most, it became... smaller. As we learned, the world became less magical.


    The OP pointed out villages, and I think he has a fair point here. Before the introduction of structures like villages and mineshafts, the world was untouched by human (or testificate) hands. It was all your's (or yours' if you're with friends). I think having these "manmade" structures in the world takes away from the original feeling. Admittedly, this can also be disabled in the world settings, but you do lose out on core game mechanics such as getting to the end or setting up spawner traps. (as a sidenote here, I somehow feel that dungeons are exempt from this. I can't quite put my finger on why though)


    Somewhere along the line, the terrain generator was mentioned. Now, I never played in beta/alpha (I began in 1.1), but from what I've watched on YouTube and such, the world was freaking beautiful. Related to this point is the balance of realism to fictionalism. The best way I've heard to describe old Minecraft is an abstract/distorted view of reality. With this in mind, you can see why things like giant mushrooms in a forest seem a bit out of place. On the flip side of that, when every mountain biome now looks the same, that is too realistic.


    One more issue is a change in community. The devs really had nothing to do with this, but later in the games development, the demographic of Minecraft's fanbase shifted more toward the pre-teen/young kid age range. Now nothing against them (especially considering this is about when I started), but they definitely have different tastes than the generally older "Minecraft vets". They want a faster, more goal driven game. They don't care so much about building or redstone (again, this is speaking in general, I know there are some very mature people out there in this age range), or the, for lack of a better word, finer aspects of the game.


    I think the killer of old Minecraft though was... goals. I know that sounds weird, but Minecraft was never really supposed to have a goal (well, I guess Notch actually originally intended the game to be a dungeon crawler, but ignoring that). Achievements were added, the End was introduced, as well as a lot more "late game" content. Not saying late game content is bad, but I think it detracts from the core aspects of Minecraft, as stated on their website "Minecraft is a game about breaking and placing blocks". It always has been, but I think many of us have lost sight of that. I think that's why I had so much fun building that castle. I wasn't trying to get prot V diamond gear, because I didn't care about that. I wasn't trying to make fully automatic redstone farms, because I liked doing the farming myself. I just wanted to build. That is Minecraft.



    P.S. To those saying that you can just downgrade your version using the launcher: have you considered that the OP might actually want the game to update someday, but they're just displeased with the way the current updates are going? If you just downgrade you never get new content.

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [New World !]Best Vanilla Server ever!|Survival| NO PVP| NO Griefing|
    Quote from Wizkof»

    IGN(in game name): Wizkof
    Age: 16
    Planet: Earth
    Have you ever been banned?: Nope
    What are you looking for in a Minecraft SMP server?: A good community, making big projects with other people.
    What are you hoping to avoid?: Griefers
    Why do you want to join this server?: I want to know more people to play that are not cheaters or griefers
    Tell us something about yourself (the more you tell us, chances of been accepted increase): I played in this server before, but there where some renovations i guess and I am not whitelisted anymore :(
    Do you know whats Team speak (if not just ask, will help you get, it is free)? I do


    Readded. Welcome Back! :D
    Posted in: PC Servers
  • 7

    posted a message on Blockology - The study of the world of Minecraft

    This thread is a continuation of another started a while ago, but the OP went inactive, so we needed a new thread. You can find the original here:

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/discussion/194680-blockology-the-study-of-real-physics-to-minecraft


    Okay, lets begin. Blockology is the study of Minecraftia. In this thread, we are seeking to discover the underlying principles of how Minecraft works.


    Guideline on how to help Blockology:


    The first step in creating a scientific theory is to create a law. A law is simply a mathematical observation about how things work. Example: All entities, along with Sand, Gravel, Anvils, and the Dragon Egg, accelerate downwards.


    The next step would be to create a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a possible explanation for the phenomenon described in the law. Example: There is a force in Minecraftia called "ponditism" that only effects certain objects that have a large amount of a property called "pondity".


    Finally, that hypothesis must be able to stand to criticism and testing and still prove valid to become a Theory. If there is a flaw in the hypothesis, try to go back and modify the hypothesis to make it fit the new observation, do not try to defend the same flawed idea.


    One thing we have to avoid at all costs: assuming Minecraftia works like our world. It doesn't. It can't. In order for blockology to work, we must start with simple laws and work up from there instead of relying on theories from real life.

    Also, no wiki, only experiments :D.


    Laws:


    The Sun and Moon seem to always be on opposite sides of Minecraftia.


    Minecraftia is a plane (based on geometric proof).


    Minecraftia cannot be rotating fast enough to explain the "orbit" of the two bodies without creating a huge centrifugal force that would rip the plane of Minecraftia apart.


    Some objects, such as entities, sand, gravel, anvils, and dragon eggs, accelerate toward bedrock.


    Blocks seem to be fixed to a well defined grid of exactly one meter per unit.


    Lava and water can create cobblestone, stone, and obsidian when they come into contact.


    Redstone can transmit a signal up to 15 blocks away, and cause effects on the world around it.


    The Elytra. 'Nuff said.


    Objects disappear entirely when they enter the void.


    Mobs and players (even players with different video settings) "see" in totally different ways.


    Objects tend to move in a straight line, while slowing down over time.


    Hypotheses:


    Tritron Color Theory:


    Everything in Minecraftia is made up of subatomic particles known as "tritrons" (tri- meaning "three", a reference to the three dimensional nature of cubes" and -tron as a suffix for particles). There are four type of tritrons: Red, Green, Blue, and White. These particles combine in different ways to create all the phenomena in Minecrafia.

    Predictions:

    • Lava has an excess of Red and Green tritrons, while water has an excess of blue. When they touch, they exchange tritrons, creating more neutral blocks in the middle, such as cobblestone, stone and obsidian.
    • Air is the absence of tritrons
    • Dark colors are created by combining the RGB tritrons with an absence of white.

    Evidence:

    • All color can be explained this way
    • Elegantly explains water/lava interaction

    Problems:

    • How does redstone work?
    • Can something so tiny exist?
    • Why do things disappear when they enter the void?

    Relation Hypothesis:


    This stems from the original posters theory on how thing work in Minecraftia. The claim was that the primary governing Minecraftia was one called "Relation". It is designed to work with the Blockule Hypothesis.

    Predictions:

    • Relation tends to cause things to become similar
    • One property of Blockules is their Cubular Temperature Energy (CTE). CTE tries to spread itself evenly among all blockules using Relation. This causes the water lava reaction. (In the combined Blockule-Tritron Hypothesis, the Tritron explanation of water+lava is used). This is essentially because of diffusion.
    • Areas of the world that are similar (ores, dirt veins, biomes, etc.) are caused by relation as the world is being created. This is due to the fact that relation causes nearby objects to become "similar" to each other.
    • Redstone power is carried by Relation over a small distance [why a small distance? Can someone explain?]
    • "Power" is another property used primarily when dealing with redstone.
    • The force of Relation is much stronger in the Void, essentially destroying whatever enters it. The tiny particles seen in the void are blockules responding to the raw power of Relation. Relation tears apart anything that enters it when it is this powerful. The player is able to resist this force for about 64 meters below bedrock before even they succumb. [why do players last longer?]
    • Relation allows portals to be created. Within an obsidian frame, relation created by fire (perhaps fire is simply a manifestation of relation? That would explain why it causes blocks to disintegrate, similar to the void) is able to open a two way portal to the nether, with similar particles to the void particles being displayed. Because the moon/End is farther away, you need a much more sophisticated portal to contain the relation to travel there, but the portal is basically one sided (bedrock is used on the other side to create the way back, which is much stronger than obsidian).
    • The void around the Nether and End create even more relation that that around Minecraftia. This massive amount of relation creates a huge, one way portal around each of them, allowing them to be seen as the sun and moon from Minecraftia, but not the other way around.
    • The world would fail to generate without relation.

    Evidence:

    • Provides a fairly elegant solution to a wide variety of problems, such as the dirt patches.
    • Yeah, that's basically it, but it's pretty good evidence.

    Problems:

    • Uses many logical leaps that seem a bit like assumptions to me.
    Blockule Hypothesis:

    This hypothesis attempts to explain what makes up the Minecraft world by defining tiny particles known as "blocktoms"

    which make up "blockules". The pixels we see on blocks are actually blockules. One possible explanation is that "blocktoms" are actually tritrons (i.e. tritrons make up blockules. See Tritron Color Theory), demonstrating a possible cause for color. The hypothesis originally was meant to work with Relation.

    Predictions:

    • Blockules can be altered by relation to become more similar to each other.
    • Each block may contain 16x16x16 blockules, although some would have less. This point has been contested seeing as it has not been proven that blocks are not hollow.
    • Attempts to explain that blockules "fail to interact" very far (30,000,000 blocks) from spawn. It does not explain sufficiently why this occurs.
    • Blockules have a property called "Cubular Temperature Energy" CTE. CTE diffuses from hot to cold, explaining the cobblestone creation process. In the combined Blockule/Tritron theory, the tritron explanation is preferred.
    • In contradiction with Tritron hypothesis, this hypothesis claims that there are different elements that blocktoms can be, and these combine to make compounds. (Iron is mentioned as an element)

    Evidence:

    • Yeah, I got nothing.

    Problems:

    • Very vague explanation of the far lands
    • Blocks may be hollow

    Anything I missed?

    Nether Sun:


    Perhaps the "sun" is actually the Nether, and the "moon" is actually the End. As an extension, the stars might possibly be the outer islands of the End. Alternatively to the star hypothesis, the dark spots on the moon may be void between the islands.

    Predictions:

    • The moon must be much farther away than the sun (exact number pending)

    Evidence:

    • You cannot travel directly from the Nether to the End or vice versa (Minecraftia is directly between the two).
    • The Nether is flooded with lava, so it should glow.
    • The moon has spots on it that look similar to the obsidian pillars.

    Problems:

    • Doesn't well explain the outer end islands
    • Why can't you see Minecraftia from the End? (You can't see it from the Nether because the nether is enclosed)

    Celestial Bedrock Sphere:


    Explains how the sun and moon can orbit Minecraftia opposite of each other. Based on old Geocentric models of the universe where the sun moon and planets were thought to be embedded in crystalline spheres that were rotating.

    Predictions

    • The Sun and Moon are embedded in a massive bedrock sphere surrounding Minecraftia. The sphere is rotating creating the motion we see.
    • The stars may be holes in the sphere, giving us a glimpse of something beyond.

    Evidence:

    • The Sun and Moon are always precisely opposite of each other.
    • They rotate around Minecraftia at a constant rate.

    Suffocation Based on Pressure:


    There is no positive evidence that air exists, so we need another explanation for why players suffocate.

    Predictions:

    • When a block enters the head space of a living entity, it squeezes that entity with enough force to cause damage.
    • Water also exerts a pressure on the player, but less so, so you can last longer in it.
    • A certain type of helmet can help negate that pressure

    Evidence:

    • Living entities take damage faster when in blocks than when in water.
    • Respiration helmets can help you last longer.

    Problems:

    • Water breathing potions.

    Block Energy Level:


    Similar to how electrons in real life must exist at whole number energy levels, so to must blocks exist as whole number distances from 0,0,0

    Evidence:

    • Blocks exist at exact multiple of one meter from 0,0,0

    Problems:

    • Slabs and smaller blocks still prove a problem
    • Why are entities not affected by this? Maybe for the same reason other subatomic particles don't follow this rule IRL?

    Void Core (Disproven):


    At the core of a spherical Minecraftia is an area known as the void that is analogous to the core of Earth.

    Evidence:

    • There is an extremely hard material surrounding the core (similar to the core of iron on Earth)
    • There is lava right outside the core (again, similar to Earth)

    Problems:

    • Directly contradicts the flat Minecraftia proof
    • Relies on a concept of pressure that hasn't yet been explained.

    Notch Length (disproven):


    By definition, the Notch Length is the smallest possible length in Minecraft. The initial idea was that the Notch Length was one meter, but that doesn't seem to be right.

    Predictions:

    • Objects can only more in 1M increments.

    Evidence:

    • Blocks fall into a one meter grid.

    Problems:

    • Things can exist in lengths smaller than one meter, such as slabs, mobs, etc.

    Theories:


    Ponditism:


    Pondity (from Latin pondus, meaning weight), is a basic property of everything in Minecraft. It helps explain why some objects fall and others don't and also why blocks are fixed to a grid.

    Predictions:

    • "Entities" have a high pondity, "falling blocks" have a medium pondity, and other "blocks" have no pondity.
    • Things with pondity are pulled downward
    • Pondity also causes something analogous to inertia, but in reverse. Objects with a low pondity are locked to a grid and require a much greater force to escape that grid. Objects with a high pondity are able to escape the grid much more easily.

    Evidence:

    • Objects that fall are not locked to a grid, objects that do not fall are locked to a grid.
    • Seems to explain the interaction flawlessly.

    To do:


    MDNA

    Bonding Energy

    Evasitism

    Sufflamism

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Blockology - The study of the world of Minecraft
    Quote from UnknownASA»

    ._. Wow, everyone really loves fictional Minecraft science.


    Yeah lol, and this is actually the second thread. There are like 50 more or so posts on the original.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Blockology - The study of the world of Minecraft
    Quote from Hexalobular»



    That's 30,000,000 and 60,000,000 blocks!

    I don't see why we should assume that the sun and moon are the Nether and End.
    But even if we do, surely the empty part of the End would not be visible? Just the relatively small island in the middle, which isn't always square is it?
    Does the moon appear larger in 1.9? Or split up in parts indicating being composed of several islands?

    When you calculate the distances to the sun and moon add in the observation that you can teleport to a height of more than 1E308, that's a 1 with 308 zeros after it, without the visual size of the sun/moon changing noticably!

    I don't think the math will add up.


    Sorry for the error in the numbers. That was my bad. Anyway, I'm not saying that we have to assume that, I'm saying that if we do, it gives us a possible way to calculate the distance (hence the "maybe" in the post). My theory for the outer end islands is that those are maybe the stars? Although, that is a bit of a stretch.

    This does bring up an interesting point though, what do we do with discrepancies between versions? The laws of physics surely can't just change, can they?

    As for the teleportation, again, does cheating count as a scientific analysis? I'm going to have to say no to that, even though it pains me to have to get rid of the void below Minecraftia and the Nether.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Blockology - The study of the world of Minecraft
    Quote from Hexalobular»

    I aggree that mass is a more basic concept than weight, though weight is normaly easier to measure, but my objection applies to mass as well as weight.
    If there is such a thing as mass it certainly doesn't work the same as in IRL-world.
    Since vision and hearing are the only senses that seem to work and we don't seem to have any way of weighing anything or cutting/disassembling blocks it seems we are limited by what we can see.
    And X-ray glitches seem to imply that blocks are hollow (or possibly invisible except for outer surfaces exposed to air).
    Mobs also appear hollow but their inner surfaces are visible.
    We just can't see (and thus have little evidence for the existance of) anything except for the solid block surfaces nearest to us (and anything transperant nearer to us) and if, for some reason, those surfaces aren't visible we can see all the way to the nearest cave or surface features.

    Blocks being hollow would explain how we can collapse 2304 blocks and stick them in our pockets.
    But there is also the matter of dropped blocks appearing much smaller than placed blocks and also the combining of multiple drops of the same kind.

    My proposal was to use math, not measurement, to find the blocks weight. Read the post more carefully and reply back if it doesn't make sense (which very well may be the case). I don't love using X-ray glitches as evidence, as that basically says that we have to treat all unintended features as legitimate. IMO, I think that glitches shouldn't count toward Blockology. Now, seeing the inner surface of mobs, that I can get behind (get it, behind the surface), although we've already established that sight is weird, so idk. I like the inventory idea though.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on The Story Behind Minecraft

    One thing to note here about guardians. They seem to be the exact opposite of endermen. Endermen cannot touch water, while guardians cannot live without it. Endermen hate being looked at, guardians use it as a weapon.

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on The Blood Moon event
    Quote from teesee»

    I suppose that would fix it.


    Also, it's not a flame war, just an argument. If it was a flame war, it would look like this:

    Suggester: CHANGE RENDAR DISTANCE!!!!!!! YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON
    Me: NUUUUUUUU!!! GET REKTTT!!

    Okay, so that's a bit of an exaggeration, but this is still nothing close to a flame war.

    Lol. I guess flame war was a bit of an exaggeration. My point thought was just that the last couple of posts seemed a bit pointless. :D
    Posted in: Suggestions
  • 1

    posted a message on Is a democratic survival a good idea?

    I'm just going to put this out there. I've played on a semi-vanilla anti-grief multiplayer server for a couple of years, and eventually I was chosen as the leader of a semi-communist organization/nation thing called multi base. At the beginning, I tried to implement a democratic government, where the laws were strictly made by the people and you needed a majority vote to put laws into effect. However, I noticed something after a while that threw a wrench in those plans. Because people tend to not be online a lot, I had trouble getting anything done in government, because I could never get enough people to vote on it. Eventually I was forced to switch to a more authoritarian government for the sole purpose of actually getting things done. Anyway, my point here is that democracy, at least in my experience doesn't work too well in the realm of Minecraft.

    Posted in: Discussion
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