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- NEMUSUS
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Member for 12 years, 9 months, and 26 days
Last active Mon, Sep, 17 2012 20:29:59
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Sep 9, 201212
Kaulquappe posted a message on Too much coal or ironYou should study grammar and then come back in a year.Posted in: Survival Mode -
Jun 11, 2012172
Insurrection posted a message on Survival can, and should be, improved (Part 2: Electric Boogaloo)4a: The Terrain and Biomes.Posted in: Survival Mode
The mere idea that a game has actual terrain in it, and not polygons used to form something that looks like terrain is nothing short of astounding. This is something that needs a great amount of props- even if none of it was intentional, the mere idea of it is something that needs much more appreciation amongst... everyone. It really is a great concept. That aside, however, we need to objectively look at Minecraft's terrain generation- and how it can be improved. In order to realize what needs to be improved, of course, we need to understand its flaws.
Firstly, the terrain in Minecraft is reliant upon its biomes- this is something that's loosely based on real life, and is pretty nice, as it separates things out a bit more. Unlike real life, biomes are more "pre-set" than just being the result of something else. Because of this, biomes often feel rather... dull, because a jungle can look a lot like other jungles just with randomized placement. Or, a desert can still look like other deserts, just with different amounts of cacti, hills, etc.
Part of this is due to the fact that there isn't really enough content to work with. There aren't things like different types of sand, or a variation in jungle tree types, or different types of "ground" or etc. The list goes on and on- so ultimately, there won't be all too many variations between biomes of the same type. Sure, hills might look pretty, or there may be the random floating island, or etc- but these again aren't intentional. That's sort've the point when it comes to terrain generation, admittedly. However, the occasional "cool terrain" caused by random generation isn't the only thing that can be done to biomes- there's much, much more that can improve the generation.
Especially when it comes to actually useful things. Right now, a lot of biomes are full of lots and lots of stuff, but most of that stuff isn't all that useful. They don't contain a wide selection of things you can't find in other biomes- at most, they contain around 2-3 things. Even then, the unique things they offer aren't particularly useful still- cocoa for cookies (one of the worst food types), lilypads (no real use outside of allowing the player to walk on it), emerald ore (you can get emerald just by trading), etc.
Most other times, you're just getting more of what can be found in other biomes already- plains just offer more seeds (useless once you get your first wheat farm going), forests/taigas offer more wood (saplings allow you to grow trees almost anywhere), deserts offer more sand (beaches usually give plenty for any regular glass needs), and so on.
The actual terrain generation method has gone through a number of changes- it used to be pretty average (around early alpha and stuff), then it became crazy (alpha through beta), then it became... what it is now (beta 1.8, I think). The current system, though, seems to lack something that made the alpha-beta generation a lot better: its height generation is much less dynamic. Hills basically need to connect to one another through at least one block, by one block now- I'm pretty sure that "prerequisite" for hill generation wasn't there before. Furthermore, there's a set minimum and maximum- before, it was possible to have desert with hills completely on its own. Now, deserts have a technical biome called "desert hills". It's much more... static this way, thus going against the idea of "unintentionally cool things being generated".
This ultimately leads to every biome feeling the same- sure, one set of plains may have a lava pool in it, but that hardly makes up for the lack of dynamics. At best, you get a village, but those aren't terrain- they're structures. Structures and terrain are fundamentally different. Terrain is random, chaotic, and often very dynamic. With structures, you expect symmetry- things are usually more "intentional", and the shapes are (intentionally) repetative. So, villages don't quite make up for the lack of terrain variation (especially not across all biomes).
Still, the idea of a more "systematic" generation of biomes is actually a good thing- the problem is its lack of utilization. Biomes are still chaotically placed, so you have things such as deserts next to taigas, tundras next to jungles, and so on. This is a lot of potential being wasted- you could very easily come up with a flowchart of which biomes should be generated next to eachother, allowing for more organization and sensible placement. This would require a good amount of biomes to be created (Savannas, Subtropical Forests, Bogs, etc), but that's hardly a bad thing.
Speaking of under-utilization, the new-ish height limit of 256 isn't used for terrain generation. At all. There's simply a cut off point at 127- blocks cannot (and thus, will not) generate above this. So you have 129 blocks worth of space simply not being used for anything. The official explanation given is "it gives more breathing room". This is... frustrating, as that's made to appeal to people who make massive structures. Which, it's often best to go to creative mode for that, anyway.
All of these things are elements of terrain generation- and all of them are flawed to some degree. Thus, one can make the fair assessment that terrain generation is flawed (and therefore, should be improved). Even if it's "fine", again, why not make it better?
4b: How to fix it.
Make the biome minimum and maximum height be pseudo-random. By this, I mean add a randomized number between X and Y, then add a static number to it, and get the sum of these two numbers for the minimums and maximums. The random number should be re-made for every individual biome in the world. This allows you control over the height of things, but still allows for dynamic amounts of height- so you'd have generation similar to alpha-beta, but with a lot more control.
Next, there needs to be more variations of the simple stuff- more types of stone, sand, clay, etc. Things like additional trees also helps. Really- even though they're "useless" additions, they don't take much effort, either. With this, make it so that biomes choose which "sub-type" of stone, sand, and/or clay (or other new sub-type blocks) to use, and then it sticks with it consistently. So one desert might be a red sand desert, another could be saffron colored, another the current sand color, etc... this is mostly for aesthetic variation, but that's never a bad thing (so long as actual features are also added)
More importantly, of course, is the useful additions. Things like lilypads, only... actually useful. I don't think I need to explain why it's never a bad thing to have more unique things per biome- this is really something you can almost mindlessly add tons of things to, and as long as they fit the bill (being actually useful), I really can't think of any reason not to have tons of content for this. I've said it before, but I'll say it again- use potion making if you need to. Lilypads, for example, could be used for a "potion of water walking".
They don't need to be only for potion making, of course- really, the possibilities are endless. As long as the content introduced doesn't become "Same thing as other things, but worse", there's really no reason I can see not to add more things. It's not as though it would over-complicate things for the average player, either- you wouldn't be forced to use any of the things introduced. They'd just be there if you wanted more content.
Another important thing to consider, more so than items/blocks offered by a biome, are the actual gameplay mechanics a biome uses. For example, I earlier talked about reducing the maximum light level for spawning mobs- this would already make plains and deserts something unique in terms of gameplay. It also meant forests and jungles would be more dangerous than them. These kinds of things are fantastic- they add extra layers of gameplay, which again, is never a bad thing (as long as it's not forced upon the player). Granted, not EVERY SINGLE BIOME needs to have ~super unique amazing things times a thousand~, either. But it'd be nice if I went to a desert and found a lot more things than just... more of the same stuff I could get in other places, or get better versions of.
As mentioned, one thing about biomes that seems to go ignored is how they generate in relation to one another. You have the system set up for this to work ("Hills" will only generate in their "parent" biome, extremehills edge will only generate outside extremehills, etc), but it's not used at all. First, I suggest introducing a lot more biomes- ones you'd not only find IRL, but would just add to the variation, and (ideally) gameplay. A lot more transition biomes- Savanna (Plains/forests to deserts), Bogs (Swamps to Taigas), Subtropical (Forest to Jungle), and so on. Not only would be they be transitional, but you could add things that are loosely based on IRL- bogs could contain pools of acid (a new liquid type, tons of possible uses), etc.
You can also have more sub-type biomes- biomes that sort of "branch" off the existing ones, but are considered the same for the previously mentioned organization system. Things like a "Wispy forest" with lots of creepy stuff (and spiders), or a "Canyon desert" with lots of hills and ravines, and so on. Again, variation with existing biomes is never a bad thing.
Lastly, the height limit. Just... make more use of it. Extend the "sea level" (thus, cloud level, and everything) to be ~90 blocks instead of 63. 63 is pretty short, to be honest, and doesn't give enough room to make really awesome layered caves. Next, allow things to generate higher. Extremehills need to be renamed to "Mountains", and then be allowed to generate all the way up to a height level of 200 (which, even with the higher sea level, would be higher than existing extreme hills). That leaves 56 blocks to build with, which is plenty. And that's just from the peak! People can still build alongside the mountain and have Dracula style castles if they really want to.
Those are just some ideas, too. Terrain generation, I feel, is one of the most under-utilized aspects of Minecraft- and there's not much of a reason for it. It doesn't force more upon the player. They don't need to learn more things to appreciate variation and content. It's just variation and content- the only people it would possibly annoy are those who literally cannot accept change. But then, why consider those people? Why let them hold back development for something that could be legendary? Again, no reason to.
5a: Lack of Player Character Choices
Currently, the game only contains a very small amount of choices for your player character. You have swords (which are tiered, so there's effectively only one), bows (literally only one), ender pearls, and snowballs (don't do any damage except to 2 mobs in the game, even then not much) for weapons. For armor, you only have whichever tier you have access to, and pumpkins (which only serve an immensely niche purpose). For direct controls, you can only: walk (a given), jump (also a given), sprint (double tapping, which is rather frustrating to use), and sneaking. That's about it.
By any game standards, this is fairly low. There isn't some technical limitation (items actually have more ID numbers than blocks) for why there's a lack of equipment. And there definitely isn't a technical limitation for why there's a lack of player ability (It's not a 2D game, or made in 1998). They just aren't there.
Sure, one can argue "But you can't consider something to be lacking if it never meant to have other things in the first place". Just the same, you could argue "You can't consider anything a flaw, because they wouldn't be there if they weren't meant to be there". I'm pretty sure any reasonable person wouldn't make that second argument (and frankly the first, but hey). The thing is, both of those arguments are virtually the same. You'd basically be saying "Everything that exists is perfectly fine, as they are already there". Just because something exists doesn't mean it can't be better- and it definitely doesn't mean that because it exists, it's good.
With that out of the way, we can then point out that there indeed can be more to this game in terms of player choices- and that something can, indeed, be lacking (even if they were never intended to be included). So first, let's point out what this game lacks- things that would add so much to it in terms of both gameplay, and just general enjoyment.
First off, it lacks equipment choice. Sword, bow, and armor- that's really about it. Ender pearls are just an escape mechanism, and snowballs are way too niche. Just because "it's fine as it is" doesn't mean there can't be more. Especially if none of the extra equipment choices are forced in any way (imagine if snowballs were the only way to kill blazes- that'd be annoying). They'd just offer variation in your approach to things (because ideally, they'd be balanced). Which is important- a game like Minecraft relies almost entirely on user control to do things, yet there's a significant lack of options for literal control over your character.
I can understand not having flying and stuff in survival, of course- it'd be overpowered. So it's not just a lack of control- if you have too much control over what you do, there's no true sense of satisfaction when you overcome the game's challenges. However, when you have too little control over your character, it can be frustrating when you die simply because you couldn't do X thing. It's like really old videogames with clunky controls- the only difference is that Minecraft isn't limited by any hardware or the like.
Especially when you have a mod like Smart Moving. This mod proves that you can very easily make the game much more enjoyable with just a few more additional mechanics. However, it doesn't break the game- sure, a few of the more meta things might be rendered less useful (fences in SMP servers need to be reinforced), but that's going to happen when you introduce new things. Instead of simply plopping certain mechanics into the game, of course, the things it "breaks" can still be overhauled as well. So instead of refusing to put smart moving in "because it breaks fences in SMP", why not make reinforced fences that can't be built over?
Once you instill the idea of "Anything added to player abilities, so long as they're not inherently overpowered, can be aided by editing other things where necessary, especially if it breaks things", you don't have to worry about adding new player abilities and the like. Of course, you shouldn't go overboard- adding too many controls can end up throwing a lot into the face of a player, and frankly I'd probably be annoyed at anything more than Smart Moving. Which, I'd like to say again- Smart Moving is fantastic. It shows precisely how movement can be better.
Anyway, the next point I'd like to cover is equipment. Tiered equipment is a flawed concept for game balance- why use X when Y is the same as X but better? Minecraft isn't TOO bad with this, but wood and gold are effectively useless. Sure, gold mines faster, but diamond is hardly slow- plus, it breaks way quicker, and etc... there could be more uses for gold equipment, yet there isn't.
The same goes for armor- why use leather when I can use iron? Or better yet, why not use armor? Especially if you have a surplus of iron (which really isn't hard to get). Armor gives you tons of defense (up to 80% reduction in damage with full diamond) with no drawback. The only thing it does is add more things you can potentially lose, but that argument extends to anything remotely rare- and rarity is not a balancing factor, so yeah.
In general, the existing weapons and armor don't offer much either- swords hit things and block (despite blocking being pretty meta, given that no mobs have cues for their attacks), and bows... well, bows are alright, but still. Armor just reduces damage- it doesn't offer anything more, nor does it have any other stats that allow the developer to diversify armor types. Again, this is "fine" from the sense that it's a bare minimum, but there can be more.
5b: How to fix it.
Implement Smart Moving. Right away, this adds an extra layer of gameplay- you really feel like you're in the game world. Climbing just makes so much sense. Crawling, swimming (you can swim into 1x1 areas), and so on just... feel right. I can't explain it- just go DL it and play with it for awhile until you're used to the controls. You'll see what I mean. It's a really, really amazing mod and deserves a lot of attention.
With that in place, you have more options for balancing out armor- as I said, armor is a little imbalanced. There's no real reason not to wear armor, and especially no reason to wear lesser armor (like leather). I suggest an "armor weighting" system, where every piece of armor has a variable weight (IE: Iron boots are 3, but leather boots are 1, etc). Straight away, you have two stats now to diversify the existing pool of armor- armor points, and weight. Ideally, things that give more armor points are heavier (for gameplay purposes- not lolrealism).
Next, make armor weight actually do something. First, increase the default sprinting speed- then, have heavier armor reduce your sprinting speed, up until flat out disabling sprinting when using a full set of the heaviest armor (diamond). Then, after certain points of armor weight, some of the smart moving abilities would be disabled- IE: going over a weight of X disables charge jumping, going over a weight of Y disables the ability to climb vines, etc. More and more abilities would be disabled, until you're essentially only able to move like pre-1.8 beta (as in, not able to sprint, etc) at the max possible weight. On another note, inventory/etc shouldn't add to weight- that's just arbitrary and annoying. It should only be for armor, for the sake of gameplay balance- not because of "realism".
With this system, you can apply different weight to different types of armor, and essentially split them into different categories (light, heavy, and in between). Wearing no armor would give the most freedom, leather armor gives a fair amount of freedom but also some armor, gold armor gives a bit more armor with a bit less freedom, chainmail is even more armor but heavier than gold, etc. This would offer a great balance system, honestly.
Another thing that can be added to armor is knockback resistance- right now, you get knocked back the same regardless of the armor you're wearing. I'd expect to be able to hold my ground better if I was wearing a full suit of iron armor- besides, it adds another variable for considering what armor pieces to choose. Again, more choice can only make things more enjoyable.
Furthermore, with these 3 stats, you now have the ability to easily add in unique armors, too- and then reduce/increase any of the 3 stats to balance it out. More balancing factors make it easier to add in unique things, since adding in a new armor that does something special that simply has less armor wouldn't be able to fit within the current armor types under the current system. With weight and knockback resistance, you could make things like a fire-resistant armor that has as much armor as chainmail, but is a bit heavier than chainmail with the same knockback resistance. Things like that are now very easily possible, as they wouldn't be imbalanced to add, and a system would be in place to allow you to easily add them without needing to make up a drawback.
Pretty much the same can be applied to weapons, too- add in attack speed and knockback as stats instead of just damage, and suddenly you have 3 new stats to work out and adjust where necessary. This can be applied to not just new weapons, but material types- gold is slower than iron, but knocks back farther, or something. From there, you can naturally make new weapons with unique secondary abilities (as in, right clicking)- maces that can be charged up for more damage and knockback, spears that can be thrown, etc. New weapons can of course have additional passive abilities, as well- spears can hit farther, battleaxes can cause a "bleed" effect that attracts zombies (someone here suggested this, forgot who, but it's a neat idea) and does slow damage over time, etc.
There's just so many things you can do- and in the end, it's not like you'd have to consider a ton of things just to make sure you pick the "right" weapon- if you don't care, all you need to do is just make a sword still, and it'd still work the same way. You wouldn't even be forced to use the additions in smart moving. Ideally, there wouldn't be mobs that can only be killed by X weapon, or the like- that forces you to carry certain weapons, especially if that mob is common. I'd hate to do that, and while a minor thing, is something that videogames do that's rather annoying (use the green whip to kill this enemy, and the purple whip to kill that one!).
6a: Graphic Design
Graphics in Minecraft is a subject that a lot of people like to bash, but aren't really specific as to why they're bad. I'm not sure if it means that they're so aware of the flaws that they feel other people should too, or that they don't have very good reasons- but either way, there isn't much of a proper deconstruction as to why the graphics are flawed.
Now, before we get started with this section, I need to explain a very fundamental aspect of videogames graphics before I get started- technical graphics are different from graphic design. Technical graphics are the things like texture size, polygon count, shaders, all those things. Technical graphics are often "capped" due to hardware limitations- or else, the game will grind to a halt trying to render things. They're not things that immediately turn into graphics, either- instead, they're things used almost exclusively for graphic design. Graphic design is the actual placement of colors, the artistic overlay over the polygons, the "shape", the overall artistic design, and so on. Think of technical graphics as a lump of clay, and graphic design as the end product. Sure, the graphic design requires a certain amount of technical graphics, but they're still very different aspects.
It's the kind of thing people complain about when they go on about "brown n' bloom" in modern videogames- it's nothing more than a simple bit of technical graphics (shaders, and such) that's simply tacked onto the game. It's also why it's still possible to find older videogames that actually look really good, despite their age- Ecco the Dolphin, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Metal Slug, etc. They all employed graphic design- artistic talent that makes use of the hardware and software they're given, and work within their limitations to provide an objectively good looking, unique product.
Minecraft, unlike a lot of older videogames, is limited in quite a different way. Rather than being limited by hardware or software (well, java, but still), it's limited by the fundamental concepts it employs- there's a reason the textures aren't higher than 16x16, as that can cause a fair amount of lag due to rendering every single block you can see individually (at the very least- it usually needs to render more than just that). However, it's not immediately limited by hardware- while Minecraft is now on mobile and 360, those are still ports. At its heart, it's a PC game, and PC consumers have variable hardware specs- which continually improve every year, if not every couple of months.
In the years Minecraft has been in development, hardware averages have improved considerably- however, Minecraft hasn't really done much of anything to even give players more options for a better looking game. The only things that come to mind (I may be skipping over a few things- apologies if I have) is when they implemented smooth lighting (quite a while ago), and the Advanced OpenGL rendering thing (Forgot what this is called... occlusion?). Mojang hasn't really made much of an effort to improve the game's technical graphics. I can understand why- it's not a game for technical graphics at all (although it can always use improvement). However, that's where the other problem comes into play- it severely lacks graphic design. It's been using programmer art even through its official release.
Let's explain what the term "programmer" art means. Programmer art is when the programmers create very simple art for the sole purpose of moving along the development of the actual game engine and game mechanics. This happens because graphic design can take a fairly long time, so waiting for them to work on things can take far too long for any reasonable development time. It's just a temporary thing- they're not meant to be in the actual game itself. They often employ bright colors to make things easy to recognize while hunting down bugs, and ensuring that everything is where it's suppose to be. Afterwards, a graphic design team is meant to apply the actual art to the product.
If you've ever seen someone model something in 3D, they often use temporary textures or even just flat colors. Sometimes, their models will contain multiple colors- this is often to essentially say "This is what this part is going to be, this is what that part is going to be" so that you can apply textures to it appropriately. This is why bright colors are used for programmer art- it allows for a much smoother time for the graphic design team.
However, Minecraft doesn't have a graphic design team- pretty much all of Notch's programmer art is still in the game. Although a few of the textures have been (slowly) changed through the development of the game (Grass, cobblestone, and more recently, gravel), they still don't have a dedicated graphic design person (or team). This is frequently the point that people such as myself mean when we say "The graphics in Minecraft could be better" (assuming it's said that nicely- it usually isn't).
This doesn't extend to just textures, either- the models are all also temporary, or at least were. There was a period of time where someone named "Dock" had actually been working to fix this, but he ended up leaving the team... and the current models just stayed. Again, a few things have been improved (Pig nose, etc), but they're very few and far between- and to be fair, they don't have a dedicated modeler on hand, either.The thing is, Mojang makes a lot of money. And I mean a lot. They're not against the idea of hiring new people to do certain tasks (Dinnerbone, Jon, etc). They're not even against hiring people from the community (*sigh* Minecraftchick, etc...). When it comes to art, though, they seem to actually be content with the programmer art.
This is something that actually angers a lot of people (myself included). And not just dumb people- most of those types only complain about the lack of technical graphics. Mojang has the ability to employ an amazing team of graphic designers to help overhaul the graphic design of the game, yet they don't. There is nothing limiting them- they can still work within the (self-inflicted) limitations of the game. They simply choose not to- either due to laziness, or because they believe it truly is the best it could be. I don't think it's the latter, though- they're not against changing graphics as they see fit (Grass, gravel, pig nose), or even making relatively more advanced graphics and animations (Enderdragon) for new content. Rather than point fingers and name call, let's attempt to figure out what would be the best approach for fixing the flaws in the game.
6b: How to fix it.
At the very least, hire some of the people who have worked on some really good texture packs. If not texture pack artists, then go all the way and hire professional artists. Not to straight up implement the texture packs they've designed, but to help create a generally better looking game. Some of the things in texture packs can be silly- a "creeper" moon, or the like. And that's fine- they're for texture packs. It's just that they shouldn't be put straight into the game, and often times texture packs are really just for preference.Still, this doesn't mean an objectively good looking design can't come about. Frankly, I feel as though the game would do better to really go all the way with the "simple" design idea. Right now, a lot of the textures are actually very "noisy", and honestly look like greatly downscaled textures from other sources. Instead, I suggest going for a more "Wind Waker" approach- intentionally simple graphics with a cel-shaded look (it doesn't actually have to be cel-shaded, but you get the idea).
Grass should be less "noisy", ores should all have different textures, and so on. There's lots of things that would need to be adjusted, and in fact the whole game's looks would require an overhaul to truly match a new artistic direction. But this isn't bad- the game is in need of one. This is one of the perks of having an "always in-development" game- you can do stuff like this. Really, outside of people who would complain about change solely on the basis of it being a change, why not make the game look better? And surely, having an actual art design team come up with a new direction would make things look at least as good as it currently is (at least...). There isn't miuch reason not to overhaul the game's graphics- outside of the subjective viewpoints of some people (but then that's not reason).
More than just textures, models also need an overhaul- along with animations. It can retain a cuboid look (I like this idea, actually), as Dock had shown was possible. However, they really aren't very good looking right now- most of them are awfully low polygon, making it hard to do much in terms of animation (though Smart Moving managed). At the very least, the models should be as good as the Enderdragon's- again, I'm not suggesting that they be akin to Call of Duty or Crysis or whatever. They can still be cuboid, and don't even need to be very high polygon or super realistic to look good- just a bit more detailed than they currently are.
As I also pointed out, there's a lack of choice for higher technical graphics. It can't be that hard to implement an optional water shader, optional realistic shadows, optional higher resolution textures, and so on. I know there's mods already for it, and while they'd probably punch a hole in a system, they should be optional still- so they wouldn't kill my computer. Options like these are great to have- sure, they're aesthetic, but it's not like Mojang lacks the money to hire people. Especially since it'd make the game look objectively better if implemented right (again, no brown n' bloom, please).
If these 3 things (Textures, models, technical graphic options) were implemented, the game could easily look way better. And you wouldn't even need to make it lag more! So it'd definitely work out nicely.
7a: The Community, and Mojang's Consideration of Such
"Oh boy", you say. "This is where I can safely dismiss everything this guy says. Every community sucks. Duh.". The thing is, for one, no- not every community is absolutely terrible. Even then, there are many things about the Minecraft community that can't be disputed- there's a distinctly large amount of people who ignore rules even on the forums (Constant server advertisements in the Survival section, asking for help on things that are already answered in the various support sections, etc). Every community has its idiots, sure, but they all come in different percentages- I can't in all good honesty say that the Minecraft community has a large majority of good, intelligent people in it.
Even THEN, one should be able to ignore stupid people in a community (regardless of the percentage of the community they make up), right? They're not flooding into my singleplayer survival and teabagging people while trying desperately to be considered a "troll" when they're just annoying, or anything. They're "contained", right? They stick to the forums, or their servers, or whatever. They're not breaking down my door and screaming about ponies or regurgitating year old memes in a shrill voice that one can only stand for roughly 1 second before going insane. They're harmless, right?
Well... that's not the problem. The problem is that, even if they're a minority, they are very vocal about their opinions. They outright flood the forums with silly, nonsensical ideas ("crying obsidian armor", "giant creepers", "super TNT", etc). Sometimes, even mods come about from these things- they drown out the good content with their objectively terrible ones. They borderline spam Jeb & co's twitter to get things done in the game that no reasonable person would listen to.
And it works. Mojang's progress on this game has significantly slowed since around Alpha. Content creation has become exceedingly sparse, and often ends up being appeasement (dogs, cats, etc) rather than artistic design. While content has still been created, again- it's very slow. It takes them a long time to add things in for some reason or another- and I don't think it's because they're lazy, or because it's particularly hard. It's because they want to appease their fanbase.
Now, why wouldn't they? It makes them money (to some degree), and unfortunately, everyone likes money. Well... I shouldn't have to explain that doing things solely for the intention of getting more money is an awful thing to do, but more than that, it's actually bad for them in the end. Their content won't be nearly as memorable, and devolves into a "fad". At best, it's senseless pandering when you listen to either the unreasonable majority or the vocal minority- at worst, it causes you to completely lose focus of what allowed you to gain such a following in the first place.
Allow me to direct you to the Japanese animation industry for an example of what I'm talking about- during the 50's, it became a booming market. It lead to the creation of what we now call "anime"- a very artistically diverse industry. Many a fantastic series have come about with insightful, beautiful, and downright amazing elements to them. Critically acclaimed films have also come about, such as Miyazaki's works. However, it also created an insanely faithful fanbase of the industry- commonly known as "otaku". "Otaku" essentially formed a subculture within Japan (and even outside Japan), with an exceedly high dedication to the industry's works.
Over time, however, the animation industry has hit a few "low points"- as any industry does. To keep their numbers (read: profits) high, they sought out their otaku fanbases more and more. They appealed, appeased, and in some cases flat out pandered to them. The term "fanservice" came about to describe this process- sometimes it was in small amounts, sometimes it filled an entire series. Over time, fanservice became more and more common- in fact, nowadays, it's hard to find an anime without some form of fanservice.
This lead to the alienation of many people outside the otaku culture- a culture that wasn't critical whatsoever, and actually are very accepting of what the industry has to offer (most of the time). One would figure "What's wrong with appeasing people who are easy to please?". The thing is, when you do this, you often lose out on a very important aspect of artistic design- criticism.
People who are almost unnaturally accepting of a product will lead the industry that creates said product to be content. They make their money, and they don't have to put much work into their product. When this happens, they often feel they don't need criticism. If it's not intentionally ignored or dismissed, it's often missed due to the outcry of support from the dedicated fanbase they either intentionally or unintentionally created. This outcry drowns out the critical responses from other people- especially in the internet age, where virtually anyone can voice their opinions, thus creating a massive amount of feedback that is virtually impossible to see the entirety of.
This, indeed, happened within the Japanese animation industry. They slowly lowered their average content quality, as they no longer needed to appeal. They had a dedicated fanbase they could appease already. Although the occasional gem surfaced throughout the years, the average quality stagnated a lot- not just in the technical aspect of their products, but in the overall artistic sense. Creativity became the exception instead of the driving force. Because of this, they started to lose general appeal- the majority of people in the world who are aware of anime will dismiss it due to their perception of it being low in quality (regardless of this being true or not).
Unfortunately for the "anime" industry, their viewers actually weren't as easy to please as one might think. Although overly accepting of content they like, over the years they evolved. Some of them simply stopped being otaku- because they either had to commit more time to work (thus lacked the time to watch anime), school (thus lacked time and often money), or they just stopped liking the general content.
What otaku remained, however, continued to become more and more "bloated"- much like a child who had been fed too much candy and became overly obese, the otaku fanbase had wanted more and more of what they were being given. After a point, they simply ignored things that weren't what they liked- they didn't necessarily hate or complain about these things, but they didn't pay any mind, either.
Because of this, the Japanese animation industry had essentially dug itself a hole- and not just through the efforts of one entity, but multiple entities. It would be like if a group of hundreds (thousands, even) people all worked together to dig a massive hole. After some time, some people may have realize the futility of their efforts, and got out before the hole was dug too deeply- others remained too long, and were unable to easily escape from the hole (if not completely incapable). The rest continued to dig.
Not unlike that analogy, the animation industry has taken a sharp decline in its profits- many studios have had to take massive budget cuts, and thus, their animation teams are almost criminally underpaid for the work they put in.
Not unlike THAT analogy, Mojang is also digging itself into a hole. They may be putting in effort, and they may be getting a crowd of people telling them "Keep digging!"- but soon, they'll reach an undesired consequence of continuing to dig.
Remember, Mojang- you never dig straight down.7b: How to fix it.
Stop enabling those people. At the same time, stop digging yourself into the hole that those people keep telling you to dig. At this point, this is strictly directed at Mojang- the community can't fix itself, much like a child constantly being given candy cannot stop itself from eating said candy. Mojang needs to put its foot down in order to prevent Minecraft- a truly amazing concept with amazing potential- from becoming the videogame equivalent of an obese, unhealthy child. Yes, it's that simple- it won't be easy for Mojang, and a lot of people will complain- but it truly is that simple.
To go the extra step, though, you need to actually listen to criticism. You can't just stop progress- you need to work a bit to climb back out of that hole. Communities that are largely critical should be listened to- places like /v/ are great for criticism. Obviously, the stupid ideas there should be just as ignored as any others- but I guarantee you that /v/ will come up with better ideas (in larger amounts) than any communities based around recognition, "+1"ing, or any similar systems.
Other intelligent gaming communities should be considered as well- Something Awful comes to mind. I'm not entirely sure of what their gaming sub-community is like, but from what I've seen, SA is fairly intelligent. At the very least, you'll get a few nice ideas and well written posts without much stupidity to sift through. Again, I'm mostly basing that off of what I've seen from other aspects of Something Awful- but I can't imagine that their videogames part is too horrible.
Outside of those two, I'm sure there are many more areas you can look for criticism- just make sure they're communities that aren't overly accepting of everything (/v/), or are fairly strict in terms of moderation and post content (SA). Or, even better, both.
This section is, honestly, the most important one. If you had to choose one out of 7 of these sections to really listen to, make it this one- it's vitally important for any real progress to be made in Minecraft. None of the previous ideas will be able to be put in without you losing focus on why they'd be good to add. It'll also set the stage for other people to get their ideas through to you- Mojang- and help this game reach its true potential.
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If you've read all of this, thank you. I don't know if Mojang has, or ever will, read this- but if they never do, then let this be an eye opener to the kind of content they look over.
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FAT's (Frequently Answered Things)
"You keep saying that building is for creative, and that survival isn't meant to be easy. Building isn't just for creative! Creative makes it feel cheap. Right now, survival gives you more of a sense of accomplishment when you build amazing things! If your suggestions were implemented, it'd be too hard to enjoy Minecraft peacefully!"
That's why I suggest creative mode have a lot more options- optional health, optional hunger, etc. Make it possible to have all the features of survival. All of them. As it stands, you basically have it this way in survival, anyway- the peaceful mode button makes it insanely easy, and now with optional cheats... yeah. This way, it'd be virtually the same (the argument of "Play as you want" would strongly apply to creative), but for creative instead of survival.
"I don't really like the Enderman curse idea. It's too annoying."
I already addressed this with an edit, but still, I know. It was just an idea- the core of the idea was that Endermen start to become more hostile after you beat the Enderdragon. How to go about this- like every other suggestion- is open for discussion. -
Jun 11, 2012
122
Insurrection posted a message on Survival can, and should be, improved (Part 2: Electric Boogaloo)EDIT: I do actually have a mod in progress. I'm primarily waiting for 1.4/the modding API, but here's a blog for future reference: http://abetterminecraft.blogspot.com/Posted in: Survival Mode
Minecraft is a game that a lot of us (obviously) appreciate very much. It's a game of nearly infinite terrain generation, nearly infinite possibilities, and nearly infinite enjoyment. It has a lot of concepts, ideas, and general gameplay to appease nearly everyone. With those aspects alone, one could say "Holy crap". One could also say "It can't possibly be a better game".
Unfortunately, that's not the truth- Minecraft can very well be a better game. Yes, it has many things to it already- but it's got so much potential, too. It has such a layout that would receive massive amounts of content very well. However, it lacks direction- the developers seem to take a few steps in one direction, and a few steps in another, without really ever committing to any one idea. While it may be "fine" (depending on your point of view), there is one indisputable fact- it can still be better. ANYTHING can always be better.
Furthermore, it's not without its flaws- yes, everything has flaws, and even Mojang is aware of a few of them. However, if these flaws are never pointed out, Mojang may very well miss out on them. Even if they're aware of every single thing pointed out in this thread, at worst it will give them a second opinion.Regardless, this thread is here to provide a (hopefully) objective analysis of the problems within the game. Not only that, I will also offer my own personal suggestions and ideas on what content could not only help remedy said problems, but also improve the overall gameplay. Obviously, my suggestions can't possibly be the best solutions, but I don't expect anyone to receive them as such. I fully endorse anyone modifying my ideas to improve them, or even suggesting better ones. This thread is meant to spark discussion, criticism, and generally help us- the playerbase- understand what is wrong with the game, and how to make it better.
Before we begin, a few side notes:---
This thread (and/or the person posting it) may seem familiar- well, you'd be right. I posted a thread similar to this, only with a much more harsh and critical tone. If you didn't read it, the thread is still here (although locked), but be warned. The following thread contains a lot of harsh criticisms- both of Mojang, and of the community. It contains a lot of language, and a generally ****-ish tone. If you're easily offended, don't bother looking at the following thread at all. It will likely offend you. Consider yourself warned:http://www.minecraft...damental-level/
Furthermore, I kindly ask that any of the things said in that thread not be brought into this thread. It's simply there to view- a sort of "uncensored" or "raw" version of this thread you're reading right now. The points are ultimately the same (although I may very well expand on them in this thread, if not add more points), but if you're going to reply to the points made in the previous thread, reply to equivalent points brought up in this thread. If I forgot to re-write a really vital part of the previous thread, please PM me. I want this to be the same thread, but better.---
I ask that the general tone of this thread remain calm, intelligent, insightful, and most of all, relevant. Please don't regurgitate arguments that have been stated multiple times throughout the thread- if you want to continue to discuss a certain point, pick it up where it was last left off. Make sure you're not repeating what's already been said by someone else in this (and especially the previous) thread.---
Please don't reply to massive posts by quoting the whole thing in its entirety. It's one thing to "dissect" a person's post by quoting specific points and replying to them as such (as I frequently do), but replying to a giant post going "i agree" while quoting it is really, really annoying. Don't do that.---
A lot of this is thread will be, yes, opinion. This doesn't mean, however, that it's all irrelevant- generally speaking, criticism can still contain opinions. And while this is technically a rant in many regards, it still has points, as well. This doesn't mean that the criticism or points brought about are also opinions- it just means they contain opinions. So don't respond to "yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, man". I'm well aware of what my "opinion" is, and I assume other people's critical posts are, too. If I flat out state something wrong, please point out where I'm wrong and why. I may be a ****, but I don't want to be ignorant.Also, just because you have an opinion doesn't inherently make you right or wrong. When it comes to two opinions clashing, that's called an argument (or a debate, depending on your point of view). In either of those, it's usually good practice to explain why your opinion should be considered over the other person's.---
Pointing out what Notch, Jeb, and/or Mojang "intended" is rather irrelevant. Even if you provide proof of where they actually said what their intentions are, this thread is a criticism of flaws. Generally speaking, no one ever intends to create flaws. That's why they're called flaws- why they're synonymous with accidents. Most of the time, flaws are unintentional. However, if it's an intentional flaw, then it needs to be changed even more.If you want to argue on whether or not something is a flaw, feel free. That's what this thread is for- to figure out what is and isn't flawed. Just be sure to be objective about it- simply because you enjoy the flaw doesn't mean it's perfectly fine. That goes against the whole idea of criticism and objective analysis.---
Understand what it means to be objective. If you're not aware/too lazy to look up the definition, it essentially means to be unbiased- to be logical, fair, and to disregard both other's and even (or rather, especially) your own subjective viewpoints, personal opinions, and so on. Just because you like/dislike something does not mean it's a valid point.---
If you choose to ignore/deliberately dismiss the previous notes, don't expect anything more than a "**** off". If you disagree with the foundation of the "guidelines" (I can't force them, so they're not "rules") I just stated (about objective criticism being required in the thread, and all that), feel free to explain why you disagree. However, I still ask that you follow those guidelines- yes, even to explain why those very guidelines are bad. You're not a "rebel" for deliberately ignoring/dismissing guidelines when pointing out why said guidelines are flawed- you're just ignorant and dismissive.---
Pretty much this entire thing is about the vanilla survival game. It is not about the lack of mods. Even if mods were mind bogglingly easy to install and create, the point of not considering mods is that this rant is directed at the vanilla survival game. If you want to make the argument of "go get mods", please don't. The same exact argument could be made if all of my suggestions were to hypothetically be added, anyway- you could get "mods" to change whatever it is that you'd dislike, too.However, my ideal situation isn't to add "what I want". It's to make the game better- which is why I highly encourage discussion and modifications of my ideas where necessary. I want to make the game better- not suit only my tastes.---
Please don't just shoot down all the things proposed in this thread, then never suggest better ideas. If you're going to defend the current vanilla survival mode, at least state how it compares to the suggestions proposed in this thread, and why they trump the proposed ideas. Simply saying "Because it already works" really isn't a good enough response- don't make me state why "It's always been this way, therefore it is fine" is a poor defense.---"Imbalance" in game design doesn't refer to someone being able to beat you in a videogame. It refers to a situation where a choice is noticably less useful than another choice. When I refer to something as "overpowered", "useless", "useful", "imbalanced", or etc, I'm referring to it in this sense- not whether or not I can beat other people with it.
---
Now then, with all of that out of the way, let's get started.
1a: The Lack of Tutorial, Introduction, or etc.
Minecraft, straight away, lacks an introductory period whatsoever. Now, this might be one of its charms- but it's still rather unprofessional. The game contains a fair amount of complex mechanics- it's not very kind to new players who are entirely unaware of how the game works. One may make the argument of "It's supposed to be like that- the game is hardcore", but honestly, why does this need to be "hardcore"? Other games might do it, sure- that doesn't mean Minecraft does, too.
I'm well aware that the wiki, youtube videos, and so on exist- however, I shouldn't have to work just to try and enjoy a game. This notion is rather... counterproductive. Even if one finds enjoyment in being thrust into a world with no idea what to do, there are much better ways to do this. The core intention of being "thrust into a world with no idea what to do" is that it sets up tension- it's sort of a "crash landing in the wilderness, have to fend for yourself" kinda thing. Yes, IRL you wouldn't have a wiki- but the thing is, it's a videogame. There are many things you know how to do in real life that don't translate into a videogame at all- especially for a really actually very simple game like Minecraft.
The basic idea of a videogame is to be entertainment. Yes, the concept of "being thrust into a world" is definitely awesome- but a distinct lack of information on how to do very simple things leads this idea astray, and actually turns it into work almost. I have to figure out very simple mechanics- not because I'm dumb, but because it's a videogame. Sure, a smart person can figure things out eventually, but why do I need to take the time to figure things out? I play videogames for entertainment. Not so I can feel like I'm working.
Again, one may find the idea of "guideless survival" to be awesome. Frankly, I do too- but when you can't figure out how to do things like crafting basic tools (something that does not translate from IRL to the game) simply because you're not told in any shape or form, the void of ingame information simply becomes annoying on some level. Maybe you went to the wiki and figured it out instantly- maybe you're smart and figured it all out on your own. Either way, you had to put in extra effort to learn very simple game mechanics. Yes, the wiki, youtube videos, and so on exist- but it's an outside source. It's essentially the same argument against using mods- why do I need extra things that aren't directly included in the game just to enjoy it?
Videogames are supposed to be a pretty sound package of entertainment- there's a reason people are getting frustrated with "DLC". Why do I need to piece together a game with different aspects of content simply to enjoy what I paid for? Even if the pieces don't require money and are instantly available all the time, the fact is that I need to do multiple things first in order to experience what I intend to experience. Which is, entertainment.
I'm not trying to say that Minecraft is somehow terrible just because it lacks a tutorial, or something. I'm saying that the lack of introduction, tutorial, or any such thing for basic game mechanics is a flaw- one of many. It's not "more" or "less" important than other flaws- it just is a flaw. And like any flaw, it should be fixed. It should have, frankly, been fixed a long time ago. Yet it hasn't- there's still no real "push" in the right direction when it comes to very basic game mechanics. Achievements exists, sure, but they don't get the job done. They don't teach you how to build a crafting table, or how to make a pickaxe, or how to make a door, or how to make a furnace, or etc. They just say "Hey, if you do make those things, we can tell you that you did them!". There are certainly much better ways to explain the fundamental basics of Minecraft.
1b: How to fix it.
A simple explanation for how the basic gameplay mechanics work would be ideal. It can be a book that straight up tells you that's accessed from the inventory screen. Or, it can be a sort of "nudge" in the right direction while still allowing the game to progress (ala Portal 2, or the like). Anything that's simple to learn, but gets the points across will do.
It shouldn't be a long winded "storybook" or some tacked on nonsense- and it definitely shouldn't explain every item, mob, and general gameplay mechanic down to the last 1's and 0's. It doesn't need to do that- it just needs to explain the very basic things to get you going- things like how to get wood (yes, yes, erections- har har), make a crafting table, how to make a pickaxe (along with implying that there are other tools), how to make a door, and maybe a few other key elements I may be forgetting. Just the really basic things.
It can also explain the general gameplay idea (whatever the idea is- this may need to change depending on how the game is shaped). It doesn't need to go into great detail here, but it's also nice to subtly told what the flow of the game is like. Again, I refer to Portal 2 (I'll likely use Portal 2 as a reference point- sorry if it's not the best one)- it sets up the idea that it's a puzzle game quite nicely. You don't do a particularly hard puzzle and don't tackle the entire game right away, but it sets up the "tone" of the game. It doesn't force you right into the middle of the game, and it doesn't inadvertantly have you consult a wiki or other outside sources to figure out what to do.
Now, I do understand that Minecraft is an open-ended sandbox game, so it's a little harder to implement things similar to Portal 2 (as Portal 2 is a linear puzzle game). But it's still very possible- you can nudge people into the right direction, and appropriately set the tone of the game without throwing the player directly into the middle of everything.
Personally, I suggest just having the "achievements" thing replaced with a similar "Do X. In order to do X, do Y". Progress from "Find wood. Hold down left click to break down trees!" to "Access the inventory. Press &--#60;bound inventory key&--#62; to open it!" to "Turn the wood into planks. Drag the wood anywhere onto the crafting grid!", and so on. Obviously, don't have it take up 50% of the screen- but it should be fairly visible, too. When necessary, just highlight certain things (IE: the 2x2 crafting grid) and have the highlights slowly flash (rapidly is annoying).
This is pretty standard, but works very well. It'd be even better if you aren't then told "Now you're ready to explore the world. Go forth, and conquer!" or whatever- if it just eventually (and slowly) took off the training wheels, and let you ease into the world, that'd be perfect. It's not too complicated to do that.Obviously, the guide/tutorial/whatever should be optional upon starting a world. You also shouldn't have to manually turn it off every time you create a new world- once you've done the guide, it should default to off (but still allow you to choose whether to have it on or not- incase you forget anything, etc). This is pretty simple to do, but important for not annoying the crap out of people who create new worlds regularly.
2a: The Difficulty.
Difficulty in Minecraft is rather... shaky. On one hand, the mobs are immensely easy to fight off- all you need to do is hit them lots of times to kill them. Sure, sometimes they hit you from a distance (Skeletons), or teleport behind you (Endermen), but ultimately, the formula remains the same- hit them until they die, and try not to be hit yourself. On the other hand, the game can instantly kill you in the most random ways- you can be walking along, and then accidentally fall into a pool of lava, die, and lose all of your stuff. Again, this might be one of Minecraft's "charms", but charms aren't enough to make a game truly good or complete from any objective standpoint.
In a way, Minecraft is very hardcore- you're thrust into the world, and you have no sense of direction or anything. Suddenly, monsters start spawning at night, and OH GOD WHY DID THAT GREEN THING EXPLODE. It's neat- but again, it's simply a charm. This certainly goes hand-and-hand with the previous bit about the lack of tutorial, but even for more experienced players, it still happens. There's no sense of difficulty scaling, and the majority of the game (not all of it) is thrown at you at once. Part of this is due to a lack of content, but another is just how it currently works. You're thrust into the overworld, and the overworld spawns everything the same regardless of how long you've been in the world.
This actually is intentional, to an extent- Notch has outright said he never wants to make the game "progressively" more difficulty through tacked on means like spawning more/harder enemies as the game progresses. And I understand his point of view, actually- it's almost facetious how it works in a lot of games. "So you're riding along AND THEN SUDDENLY THIS GIANT ALIEN APPEARS. It's always been there, and there's no reason why it couldn't be where you were, but it's here now.", However, that's not the only way to do progression- especially not for a sandbox game. It's acceptable for a linear game like Half Life (2), but not so much for an open world game such as Minecraft, as you end up going "Wait what the, why are these things here all of a sudden?". It detracts from the idea of a living world.
Still, there's other ways to add a learning curve. They're even slightly explored in the game already- the Nether offers different challenges (not necessarily more difficult ones), the End has a boss, and so on. However, like many facets of Minecraft's gameplay, they didn't take more than a few steps in this direction. They can, and honestly, should.
Now, "should" is a pretty strong word- but I'm not saying they "should" just because I want it. I'm saying they "should" because it would greatly expand and solidify the Minecraft gameplay flow. You'd no longer be thrust into the middle of the game if you don't want to. It would actually work towards the idea of "Play at your own pace"- something that is very highly valued. It also wouldn't rely on much more arbitrary mechanics like a difficulty slider or button- which currently exists in the game.
That's another thing- the difficulty button. A lot of players are actually used to (ab)using the difficulty button mid-game so they can play at the pace they want, when they want. This goes back to the argument of "Needlessly adding extra steps to do simple things" brought up in the "Lack of Tutorials" section of this post. Why do it that way when there's a quicker, more sensible method that does virtually the same thing?
Of course, the difficulty levels themselves are very artificial- with the exception of zombies breaking down doors in hard, all they do is add to the health and damage of mobs. This is a very frequent trope used in a lot of videogames (even good ones), and I don't see why Minecraft follows it. It essentially just takes what's there, and bloats it. Why do that? You can add more game mechanics, smarter AI, and maybe even more mobs per difficulty level. There are many methods to increase difficulty.
Now, some people might be unaware of what gameplay difficulty is exactly- and might even believe it's an overly abstract concept that is impossible to pin down the exact definition. While there are many definitions of difficulty, gameplay difficulty isn't all too hard to describe when you really get down to it. I'll offer my own definition of gameplay difficulty.
Gameplay difficulty contains 5 distinct elements that essentially work on a scale- all of these elements work together simultaneously. These elements are:
-The amount of times it’s acceptable to fail before you’re punished.
-The chance you can fail at a given task.
-The influence of skill on the chance to fail.
-The severity of the punishment.
-The increasing severity of punishment for failing multiple times.
Furthermore, this doesn't apply to the whole game necessarily- it can apply to individual tasks in the game, as well. For example, the task of "mining" in Minecraft is very simple and easy- but fighting a mob might be entirely different. I would say that a game's overall difficulty is determined by combining all of those factors- obviously, this means that it's actually kind of complex to determine what the whole game's difficulty is, as you need to consider every single task within the game and add up the total "score" of all of them. This is probably why the idea of "gameplay difficulty" is often seen as an abstract thing- it requires a very hefty analysis of the game to accurately determine.
That's why I say Minecraft's difficulty is "shaky"- some tasks are rather difficult (not dying when in lava), but others aren't really difficult at all (not falling in lava in the first place).There's also the fact that a lot of Minecraft's (well, survival, but by now it should be obvious I'm talking purely about survival) "difficulty" lies in sheer choice. When given the choice to do something difficult or not, that doesn't mean the game itself is difficult. It's an intentional choice to place yourself in dangerous situations in Minecraft- a large majority of the time, you're not forced in any way to encounter difficult situations. You can create an impenetrable safehouse where nothing can get in, and have a perfectly renewable supply of food.
Yes, forcing someone to do something is annoying when done wrongly, but it's also necessary to make the game progress in some way. By "force", I mean either punish or don't reward the player by avoiding the intended situations. For example, in a regular linear game (like Portal or Half Life), nothing happens. The punishments is basically boredom and that there is literally nothing to do but move forward. You're not rewarded at ALL for simply standing there doing nothing. Alternatively, you can be forced by having things generate that can punish you (harm/kill/etc) if you stand around too long. This is more frequently done in horror-style games or action games, but it's still one method.
Now, Minecraft sorta does both of those- standing around in the middle of nowhere causes mobs to attack you (well...). You'll also lose hunger, and eventually die. Or, you'll be bored to tears simply standing there doing nothing.
However, it also rewards you once you do very simple things. Once you make a shelter (incredibly easy to do), you now have the choice to encounter mobs or not. Once you get wool (also easy to do, albeit random due to sheep frequency), you can get a bed and outright avoid 90% of mobs to do things when you want. Once you find seeds (also very easy to do), you can plant wheat which grows without any interaction from you once placed. You can be rewarded for doing nothing, as wheat (food) will grow. It may be boring, but you still get rewarded. Especially when you get an infinite water source- which is also very easy to do once you have a bucket (really not hard to get, as iron is all over the place).
All of the things that can "punish" the player (Reduction of hunger, reduction of health) can be almost entirely avoided through very simple methods. If you play your cards right, you can often avoid mob interaction almost entirely- yes, they generate all over the place at night, but you can skip nighttime. Getting food is immensely easy- there's virtually no challenge or need to go out of your comfort zone very early on in the game, nor much needed to set up an environment where you can create an infinite supply of food. Lastly, you can just turn the game to peaceful. At any time.
Now, does this mean the game is objectively bad because it lacks an overall sense of difficulty? Nope! It just means it's not difficult. Difficulty has little to nothing to do with whether or not a game is good. However, the idea of survival- surviving- must rely on some form of difficulty or challenge in order to be truly enjoyable.
For an example of what I mean, have you ever watched a really cheesy horror movie where the monster/bad guy seems insanely easy to avoid? You often find yourself going "oh COME ON, all you have to do is ___!". There's no tension, just "braaarr!" "AHHHHH!". Of course, when you say this, someone will pipe up and say "It's just a horror movie, dude.". You may or may not want to punch them in the face (depending on how grumpy of a person you are), because you know it's still a bad movie from the perspective of it lacking any realistic tension at all. Still, despite this, you know they're right about something- it is just a movie. You can't control what's going on, so even if you're 100% right about how bad the movie is because of a really tacked on sense of tension, it still has tension (even if extremely faked and unbelievable).
This is what happens in Minecraft right now. It's just mobs going "braahhh" and various "threats", but there's insanely easy methods to avoid them. Unlike movies, though, you ARE in control of avoiding them. You can do all those things the really stupid people in horror movies don't do. You can straight up break the tension of the game right away. Sure, you can force yourself into tense situations, but it's still the exact same thing that happens in cheesy horror movies- all the threats presented are avoidable, you just aren't avoiding them. Maybe you enjoy this, maybe you don't- obviously, there's tons of people who enjoy cheesy horror movies. However, that still only speaks for one's opinions- it doesn't say anything for how much quality the product has.
That's the main thing about Minecraft's "difficulty". Because of everything being easily avoidable- there are almost no truly constant threats- it's not an actually difficult game. Yes, some things you choose to do may be difficult or result in difficult situations, but they're still choices. Again, this doesn't necessarily speak for how good it is, and definitely doesn't speak for how much one person may enjoy it. It just means it's not difficult.
So what's the point of all that, you say? Why spend years writing up an essay, only to essentially say "Well it doesn't really matter, tho"? Simple: I'm pointing out the flaw of no difficulty. There is no question that survival mode was intended to have some form of difficulty- virtually all of its exclusive mechanics point towards things that could be difficult. Mobs exist, not everything breaks instantly, you can die- really simple things, but things whose purpose cannot be ignored.
Therefore, we can safely say that Minecraft's survival mode was intended to be difficult, but actually has a severe flaw in it: it isn't. Thus, we can actually say it IS bad because the game is not doing something that it intended to do. Thus, it should be fixed- it SHOULD have difficulty. Now, again- it shouldn't be difficult in every single way, all the time. Difficulty still doesn't speak for much for how good a game is on its own (a game where all you do is instantly die unless you hit the right button within 0.001 seconds isn't exactly good, either). But it needs to be fixed.
2b: How to fix it.
I guarantee this will upset many people, but I'll say it anyway: What needs to be done is rework what IS intended- make it outright work on the basis of "If you want difficult things, you can choose to go to difficult areas". Yes, this means changing how the survival game works. It also means changing other things to be more streamlined. Things like:
Remove the ability to change difficulty mid-game.This is very important, as it's the ultimate "choice" giver that destroys any tension in survival mode in any given situation. Yes, you can avoid using it- but again, this turns Minecraft into the videogame equivalent of a cheesy horror movie (if you skipped the previous section, read it... stop skimming things, you lazy ****). It might be subjectively enjoyable, but it's not an objectively good gameplay mechanic. Especially since there's a much better way to do it, such as:
Allow the player to play at the pace they want to through gameplay mechanicsThis is what makes videogames... videogames. You use the game to do what you want- not outside sources, not magical buttons, not things other than the game. There's various ways to ensure this works right, but it's a principle that should be there if you want to give the player choices- use the game to do it. Not UI buttons, not modifications to the game, not this or that or whatever. Let the actual game, as it is, let you do it.
Make mobs spawn under light level 4 or so.The actual number can be adjusted if necessary (I've played around with it, and 4 works flawlessly, but still not set in stone), but yeah. This means that mobs will only spawn in caves, underneath heavy forestry, in jungles, or etc. They won't spawn everywhere during the night. I get that "nighttime=mobs!" is one of those big things in Minecraft, but it needs to go in order for difficulty to truly be a choice.Besides, it actually adds tension in of itself. Once you're in a dangerous situation- through your own choice- you won't be able to just instantly escape. SUDDENLY, it becomes REAL difficulty. This requires the addition of many other things to aid it (faster mobs, longer mob sight, etc... things I'll go into later), but it's at least equally as required as those things in order to make those choices to go into difficult situations matter.
Make difficulty modes determine how frequently you're challenged- not how "hard" the individual difficulties areThis is more of a principle than an actual "as is" idea, but yeah. This is because the difficulty mode should determine the overall difficulty (yes, individual things add to overall as well, but why not directly add to overall?), and if things are equally as easy to avoid, that doesn't actually make things harder at all. Hence...
Make difficulty modes offer the same amount of mob health and damage.It should be equal to the current "normal". At the very least, it's lazily tacked on- it usually leads to mobs being unintentionally difficult, or unintentionally easy. It doesn't make mobs harder to encounter (thus, only adds to their individual difficulty- which, they're immensely easy to avoid anyway). There's currently no real control over difficulty when you tack on such a mechanic to every mob, either- and when you're developing a game, controlling difficulty is very important. Making things "as is" leads to very clunky, chaotic (in a bad way) gameplay. By itself, this would mean the difficulty modes would be almost identical, unless you...
Use more game mechanics for additional difficultyThings like zombies breaking down doors was a definite step in the right direction- I personally disagree with them only being able to do it in hard, but regardless it's what mob difficulty should be like: game mechanics, not just "more/less health and damage". It offers the developer real control over how difficult their game is on different difficulty levels. The actual things you can do vary so much that anything I offer probably won't matter, as it's the basic idea you should be considered. But I'll throw in my suggestions anyway!
-Variable mob sight (it should be at LEAST 32-64 for easy, though- it's FAR too short in the current game). This should depend on the actual mob, though- it shouldn't be a "If easy, +0, if normal, +32" etc for all mobs. Normally, the argument of "But that's essentially the same as tacking on more/less health", and I'd agree... if mob sight didn't only add to how frequently you encounter the mobs themselves (and also how long it takes to get away from them, since if I recall mob sight decides the distance they give up chasing you)
-Variable spawn frequency. Same as mob sight, this determines how frequently you encounter mobs. It does also increase the amount of mobs spawned together (or usually would, anyway- it might not, due to how the idea of "frequency" works), but that's not a particularly game-breaking thing I don't think. Especially if it only increases the frequency slightly (so not like 10% chance on normal to 90% chance on hard).
-Make creepers able to stalk the player on hard. By "stalking" I mean that they will attempt to hide behind blocks when the player looks in their direction if they're too far away (around 8 blocks or more), until the player can't see them anymore. This only works if the creeper is aware of the player too, of course. Once they spot the player, they will keep hiding- they don't start wandering again.
-Allow mobs to see through glass on normal. Kinda silly that they don't...
-Allow skeletons to shoot through glass windows on hard.
-On hard, allow skeletons to hide behind blocks when the player looks at them (like creeper stalking), but allow them to pop out when they can shoot again. After they take their shot, they should pop back behind cover.
-On easy, make creepers generate less often (maybe half as often).
-On easy, make skeletons not capable of knocking you back.
-On hard, make wheat only have a 50% chance to drop seeds- and then, it should only drop 1 seed.
-On hard, make mobs be "attracted" towards torches (and other player-made lighting methods). They still wouldn't spawn in light, but would make them (likely) go towards the player even if they can't see the player.
Those alone would make game difficulty varied enough to warrent picking them- and hey, they'd actually be unique additions! Even if my suggestions aren't the best, surely there are plenty of other ideas that would work better, then.
Re-think how mobs functionThis is something I'll cover in detail in the next section, but in general, mobs are pretty important to difficulty. They're the things you fight in the game, so they should be properly difficult. The previous suggestions I gave almost all use mobs as a method to deliver difficulty- this isn't a coincidence. Right now, they essentially just fill a few purposes- but there's no reason why they can't serve more. They don't need to be hyper super ultra realistic with top of the line AI, but they certainly can do more.
Make mobs generate (and despawn) farther awayNot entirely sure what the actual rate should be, but the basic idea remains- they should be able to be generated farther away than they currently are. Furthermore, their despawning logic should get their chunk distance (spawning logic does this, but not despawning). This'd remove any "lag" problems people may pre-emptively complain about... Also, this bit goes with the "longer mob view distance", obviously. Otherwise, it'd be entirely pointless.On a technical note, mobs do generate rather far away- the problem is that they despawn within 128 blocks, so effectively, they only spawn within 128 blocks. This should obviously change.
Make mobs spawn more frequently when the player sits around the same areaAs it stands, mobs generate pretty much equally all across the map (assuming they meet the prerequisite to spawn)- but why? It sorta encourages the player to continually sit in one spot, since mobs will just spawn the same amount (at most...) no matter where you are. Thus, why not sit in the safest area? This would fix it pretty nicely- if the player is within X amount of chunks for longer than an ingame day, mobs should generate more frequently around the area where possible.
This should probably be progressive, as well- so on the first night they generate at 1x the rate, the second night it's 1.5x, third night etc... yes, I'm well aware that I suggested mobs only generate in rather dark areas, so this almost seems moot. But it wouldn't be- it'd mean the player REALLY needs to check their shelter (in return, it wouldn't be as difficult to do so). And not just INSIDE the shelter, but the whole area. So if you have a house near a forest, mobs would start to generate more and more in that forest and likely keep attacking you until they outright surround you.
The "cap" on the multiplier for gradual mob generation should depend on difficulty level- something like 3x for easy, 5x for normal, and 10x for hard would probably work.Those are just a handful of ideas. I'm sure there are many more- as per usual, even if they're not the most well proposed, there are definitely things that can be done to help change difficulty in this game to work more towards an intended purpose (whatever that intention is).
3a: The Mobs.
Although I extensively explained how to improve mobs in the previous section, there's still much more to cover on mobs. Mobs themselves do serve their purposes (somewhat), and are yet another little "simple charm" of Minecraft. Despite them currently being simple and few, this doesn't mean there can't be more variety in them- especially if they still follow the basic format of the other mobs (have a unique purpose, feel, and etc).
Currently, mobs sort of offer a "filler" threat- they're kinda ubiquitous (especially at night), so after you learn how to handle them, they're just sorta... there. This breaks the idea of tension, moreso than creating it (and mobs really appear to be intended to add tension, given that they only spawn in dark places).
A lot of the ideas proposed in the previous section cover mobs, so I won't re-iterate those; however, they definitely tie together. You can't overhaul mobs without also overhauling difficulty, and vice versa- they're too interwound, and the process of "unwinding" them is an overhaul in of itself. But mobs being tied to difficulty isn't a bad thing, so there's no reason to separate the two.Anyway, right now there just isn't a very large mob variety amongst the common mobs. While there is some extra variety to be found in the Nether and occasionally in other parts (Cave Spiders, Silverfish, Slimes), they're still very uncommon. So you have: Zombies, Skeletons, Spiders, Creepers, and Endermen (Spider Jockeys are just two mobs in one).
For a game like Minecraft that relies a lot on dynamic content, the "pool" of mobs is awfully shallow. If it were increased by at least 2x, it would be a much more enjoyable game, as things wouldn't be as repetative. Which is ultimately where the flaw in mobs lie- repetition. You quickly get to know everything mobs can do after a few days ingame. Their actions, their looks, their... everything. It all repeats itself eventually. Naturally, whether or not this is still "enjoyable" is subjective, but once more- we're not considering subjective opinions here.
Because of their lack of abilities, they also end up simply serving the purpose of being "fluff" for the game. You can play with them, throw 'em around, but... they're not all too interactive. After awhile, this may even annoy players- which is something you really want to avoid. It won't annoy EVERY player, but you still want to reduce annoyances in videogames as much as possible. Challenges are fine- annoyances are not.
Lastly, mobs don't quite put in enough of their potential "feel" they're intended to convey. This goes with mob abilities, but it's sort of a "big picture" thing. For example, creepers are meant to be silent stalkers that explode to do damage and scare you to death... but when you see them wandering around the countryside mindlessly, they hardly convey this. When you get down to it, a pretty large majority of the mobs are the same way- they do some of what they're intended, but also do other things that kinda go contrary to their intended purposes, too.
Mobs should- like every element in your game- add to an overall feeling that you're trying to convey. They shouldn't be peppered everywhere just because "There's lots of stuff happening!". Despite what some people believe, videogames can be art- and when you create art, you want to ensure that everything you do serves the purpose of furthering your ultimate intention. Because of this, it's very important to know what your general intention is. What your "big picture" is- your overall concept, and the feeling(s) you're trying to convey.
Knowing that videogames can indeed be art, why would you senselessly throw in elements? Would the Mona Lisa have been better had Vincent Van Gogh* added in a lot of ornate (but meaningless) symbols, insignias, and etc to the woman's outfit? Would Citizen Kane be a better movie if it had more screentime for characters that don't do anything to further the plot? Certainly not. Just the same, why throw in needless elements- such as mobs being everywhere- simply because you can? Even if it makes the game more enjoyable for some people, is it truly something worth keeping simply because of that? Especially if it stands in the way of doing things that would be enjoyable for other people.
*I'm aware that Leonardi da Vinci made this. I was curious as to how long it'd take for someone to point this out. It took 10 pages.
3b: How to fix it.
First off, the existing mobs need to be expanded greatly. They need to more properly fulfill either the initial intended purpose, or another, better intended purpose. I'll suggest how to go about this for each mob, but again- this is the part that's subjective (even if based in objective fact).
CreeperThe Creeper doesn't really do much of a job of creeping. I suggested a way to fix this (Give them a "stalking" logic), but also, make them initially only spawn underground. While they'd work a lot better aboveground just with the "stalking" logic, they still wouldn't be particularly threatening. Plus, it sorta ruins the "shock" factor of creepers once you see one just walking around in the middle of the day. Once the player has traveled under a certain point underground, they can start to spawn aboveground. However, they still should prefer dark areas, and actively avoid sunlight (not because it'd burn them, of course) when simply wandering. Once the player is spotted, then they'l not avoid the sunlight anymore (and instead go into proper creepering mode).
ZombieZombies reeeally don't feel like zombies. If you're any self respecting zombie movie fan, you'd know so, too. They should be divided into two types- infected zombies (28 Days Later style), and shambling zombies.
Infected zombies would travel as fast as the player, but otherwise be about the same as the existing zombies.
Shambling zombies would travel a little slower than the existing zombies, but have a lot more health (like 3x the amount), and be harder to knock back (more on this in a bit).
Both zombie types should have several shared aspects- for one, they should always generate in groups of at least 5 at any given time. As in, where most mobs would only have 1 of themselves spawned, there'd be 5 zombies if a zombie spawns. This means that there'd always be a mob of them. It feels weird reading "Zombie" in the singular sense, even- I can't be alone in feeling that. Both zombie types should also create another zombie any time they kill a player or a villager- this is what makes zombies zombies, man.Zombies shouldn't be able to swim, though. That's rather silly.
SkeletonSkeletons... well, skeletons aren't really an established lore thing, nor a very well-defined thing in Minecraft. Still, they can be- and they can always be smarter. First off, the suggestion about letting them shoot through windows on hard- this'd be nice for playing on hard, and give them more of an "Oh crap!" sense. That aside, they should generally try to avoid the player, too. Things like the popping out idea (suggested earlier), and walking backwards while firing at the player would add to the idea that, hey, they want to kill you and avoid being killed.
They also shouldn't be able to drown- pretty sure they don't even have lungs. They also should be able to fight currents better than other mobs- they don't exactly have much holding them back. Yes, this is one of those "realism" things, but it'd also be nice for gameplay- zombies die to water traps easily, but skeletons don't.
Lastly, as someone had suggested, Skeletons should be able to mount any nearby spiders when both are attacking the player (as in, turn into a spider jockey).
SpiderSpiders should be able to climb on cielings, and also actually shift their body appropriately when going up walls (and, well, cielings). Right now, they face head-first towards the wall, and magically float up them...
Like creepers, spiders should avoid daylight. Not because it burns them, but when wandering about, they don't seem all too threatening being about in broad daylight (especially since they, uh, aren't even agressive then). The same rule of "if they're attacking the player, they'll ignore the sunlight" applies here.
Spiders should also be an exception to the "increased mob sight" thing. Spiders actively hunting the player would be a bit much (especially since they can see through walls).
EndermanEndermen are awesome in concept, but like anything else, can be better. There's a TON I'd like done with them, but first and foremost, they really need to become tougher after you go through "The End". Once you've beaten the Enderdragon, they should become a lot more rare, and go into "Hiding" mode where they'll still spawn in the overworld, move blocks, etc- but they will actively teleport away from the player (by a random distance) once they spot the player, and even teleport away into despawning distance (they'll keep teleporting until they despawn).
If you lock eyes with them "post-end", however... they'll lay a "curse" of sorts upon you. Endermen will start actively moving almost all blocks (again) just to get to the player, but still teleport away upon being spotted. And if you lock eyes with them AGAIN, you become frozen in place. The Enderman will then slowly approach you- and upon reaching attack distance from the player, they will place obsidian blocks all around them, then teleport away again. The only way out would be to dig down, have a diamond pickaxe on you, or have a companion (player or pet) attack the Enderman. The "curse" will only end when you kill one of the Endermen.
For balance purposes, if the player is above an unbreakable block (bedrock), the Enderman will "drag" the player to be above any breakable block. If no such block can be found within a 1 block radius of the player, they'll just teleport away, and not encase you in obsidian.
That's just one idea, anyway (extra thanks to a friend for this idea). Endermen have tons of possible ideas behind 'em, and I honestly love horror, so I have a bajillion of them.
EDIT: The idea of the "Enderman" curse has been (appropriately) criticized, and I agree, it's pretty underdeveloped. The basic idea for it, though, was that they become more hostile after defeating the Enderdragon- however, they wouldn't be hostile in the usual ways. Instead, they would be more aggressive in ways that wouldn't directly harm you. This amps up the "creepy" factor.
SilverfishShould spawn outside of just strongholds- preferably, deeper in caves (about mid-point between sea level and bedrock). They should also "pop out" of their blocks (they should still spawn inside stone blocks) when the player mines ores.
SlimeShould spawn aboveground, in swamps. They're far too annoying to get right now. They also shouldn't drown, and be capable of getting out of water.
Cave SpiderLike Silverfish, need to generate in more places. Deeper in caves would be nice. They should also drop "Venom Sacs", which should be what's used for making Potion of Poison (not Eye of Spider). All the other aspects of regular Spiders remain.
Ender DragonThe Ender Dragon is... a joke. It's not difficult, it's just got a lot of health and does a lot of damage. Thus, it should have more abilities. It should be able to land on the ground after reaching the half health point. From there, it can turn 360 degreees and walk the other way and whip the player with its tail, smacking the player away. After reaching its half health point and being "grounded", it should occasionally fly upwards a bit, then do a full loop in the air, swooping through the whole ground area where it was, and land back down on the ground.
There's really tons of abilities you can give this thing- and really, the more things it can do, the better. However, all of its attacks should have cues. It shouldn't just suddenly do things- the player should be given a short warning before it does something, so they can avoid/block/etc the attack.
There should also only be 4 health regenerators- more than this ends up being far too much to handle, and just becomes tedious to destroy them while continually getting knocked about by the dragon.Lastly, give it some sounds! There's seriously no reason why it lacks sound, especially since it was given to us in the official release.
---
Really, there's just so many things you can do with mobs- those aren't the only ones that can use improvement, and my suggestions certainly aren't the peak of what you can do with them. The more things mobs can do, the better- it can only make the world feel more alive.Next, there's the matter of new mobs- honestly, this is the kind of content I can fill entire pages with (as if this thread isn't huge enough already), so I'll keep it brief:
-Ocean mobs-Biome-specific mobs (not variations of existing ones- unique, biome specific mobs)
-Melee mobs that actually fight with you (zombies are, and should be, fairly mindless)
Those types of mobs should take priority over anything else if new mobs are to be considered when added- mostly because they're all very lacking, and have such potential to be expanded upon that anything else is a waste. This includes new animals. Speaking of, we don't really need more "passive" mobs. We already have two pets, and plenty of foodsources. Please don't keep adding more.
Another point that needs to be considered is the use of new mobs- they should generally drop something that's useful. This is kind of obvious, but a fantastic "filler" option for mob loot would be items used in potion making (as in, new potions). Especially for the potions that have an effect coded already, but aren't currently in yet (Nausea, Blindness, etc). Potion making is almost made to be there for useful mob loot- make use of this.
A small point I'd like to bring up, too, is how all mobs are knocked back the same way- I'll go more into detail on it later, but knockback needs to be a variable stat. It somewhat is right now (with enchants), but you can only improve your knockback. I'd like to see mobs like zombies (as I mentioned earlier), creepers, and a few other things harder to knock back. Right now, everything is way too easy to fight off just by hitting them.
Past all of those ideas, hopefully there should be a general theme- take what's there, and expand it all to accentuate the game. They pretty much all make each mob more dangerous, unique, and actually exciting to encounter (hopefully)- which is the general idea. Other game mechanics can control the generation of mobs, but the mobs themselves also need to be more exciting. If they're not exciting, the tension that I talked about earlier ends up being disappointing (it'd be like if Alien built up to another dude in a lame rubber suit).
Thus, we get a cohesive product out of these two aspects (set up and deliverance). The game sets up the conditions to encounter mobs, and the mobs themselves deliver the actual excitement. Both aspects are equally important- if you have mobs spawning all the time, they become stale after awhile (even if they're really well made). Just the same, even if the game sets mob encounters nicely, if they fail deliver, then it becomes disappointing, and the player won't want to bother going through the set up in the first place.
Therefore, both the mobs and the methods with which they're generated need to be updated simultaneously.---Continued in next post (post was too big). -
Jul 25, 2011196
Dwarfdude194 posted a message on [CHALLENGE] Nuclear ApocalypsePosted in: Survival ModeMinecraft: Post Nuclear War Challenge.
NOTICE: THIS IS NOT A MOD/DOWNLOAD
Congratulations! You survived the blast! Unfortunately, the world is an unfriendly place now, and there are new challenges to overcome. This is your guide, and hopefully you will survive whatever problems inevitably arise. Good luck, Survivor!
This challenge is essentially a post-apocalyptic scenario. The goal is to create the ultimate bunker for surviving the apocalypse. I searched the forums, but did not find such a challenge listed, so I thought I'd try and post one. Suggestions are welcome!
I highly reccomend the Last Days Texturepack, if you don't mind the world looking less organic. Sorta fits the apocalypse theme. Also, the Solar Apocalypse Mod has been recommended by many on the thread, so keep that in mind.
Classic ChallengeTypical of most challenges, you have one day to gather materials. I highly reccomend getting a small supply of seeds and saplings, as securing resources after the first day becomes substantially more difficult. But more on that later. It is also a good idea to have several picks and shovels, because your shelter will probably start out underground. The outer (Anything exposed to direct sunlight) walls and roof of your shelter MUST be at least three blocks thick, to dissapate the hypothetical radiation. Now for the guidelines...
RULE 1 (VERY IMPORTANT): Due to the damaging effects of a nuclear blast, the sun is especially dangerous now. Unfortunately, survivor, this means you cannot, under any circumstances, head outside during the day. Stay sheltered, and survive. If you have to, you can scavenge after sunset, but it is advised that the survivor stay in his shelter when possible.
RULE 2: It is very dangerous to touch things outside of your shelter. The fallout can and will contaminate everything directly exposed to the weather, so any mobs that are outside are off limits, including their drops, and even at night. You cannot use or (especially) consume anything that comes from a contaminated source. The survival guide reccomends cave mushrooms as a nutritious and renewable source of food.
RULE 3: Getting fresh water is somewhat difficult in the radioactive world you are now in. Any outside sources are contaminated with fallout, and cannot be used for anything inside your shelter. To get safe water, it is advised that the survivor search caves or find hidden underground lakes. Both are reasonably common, but can be challenging to obtain at first. One of your first priorities will be creating a source of clean water, so be on the lookout.
RULE 4: Your shelter: There are several guidelines to creating a safe environment in this wasteland. In addition to the thick outer walls, other precautions must be put in place. Any entrances from outside must be separated from the rest of the compound by an airlock (a small room with a door on each end). The airlock must contain a running source of clean water to clean any items that went outside with you and deposit them safely in a different room inside the compound. (That is only for bringing items in, however. Any airlock is fine without the water, your items just have to be left outside). This must be done before any outside materials can be brought into your shelter (Outdoor mobs and their drops are still off limits). Any armor that has been outside must be left in a chest inside the airlock.
Other essential rooms include a tree farm, food source (Mushrooms reccomended for their low mainatinence and high payoff), and your bedroom. For security reasons, All rooms should have doors at all entrances and exits, and large rooms (Aside from the farms) are discouraged.
Cobblestone is useful as padding for the outer walls, but is too porous to use as the exterior layer. Any exposed expansions on your shelter must be coated in smooth stone in order to be habitable.
-Extra Notes: Windows are allowed, but must be at least as thick as the wall they are on.
Variations of the rules allow fully armored survivors to safely go outside in sunlight, but the armor cannot come back into the compound. It must be left in the airlock.
(Optional) RULE 5: For the hardcore among you, the post-nuclear world is quite chilling. In order to keep the shelter safe and cozy, you must burn a unit of coal for every room in the compound, every day. Airlocks are excluded from the count. If you can get your hands on some netherrack, you just need to build a fireplace/heating room, to allow for bigger bases after you reach the nether. This would replace the coal consumption.
Thanks for reading! Please don't hate, but suggestions/improvements on the challenge are welcome. I'm sure there's a lot more creative people out there.
Apocalypse v2.0
First, a bit of explanation as to the nature and purpose of the changes. Since... what, was it 1.6 or something when posted this? Well, whenever I posted this, Minecraft was a different animal at the time. Since then breeding, hunger, experience, and a ton of underground goodies have been added. I believe the incredible changes (especially hunger) warrant more preparation time and such. If you feel this makes the challenge too easy, by all means tailor the rules to your style. It's your game after all...
Before you begin: The survivor, being as savvy as he/she is, had an edge that the other, less intelligent people lacked. Before the bomb went off (Read: Before the challenge starts) you built a saferoom. The room covered your spawn point/a bed (So the challenge doesn't end upon your likely death(s)), a secure way of getting underground, and contained a chest with the following:
All of these things: 10 wheat seeds, 5 bread, 16 torches, 1 stone pickaxe, 4 pumpkin seeds.
Two of the Following: 1 Melon Seed, 16 chicken eggs, 2 buckets of water, 1 cocoa bean and jungle sapling, 16 coal/charcoal.
These can be gathered over time before starting the challenge, or using the new in-game commands, you can use creative mode to create your saferoom. Of course, creative mode is otherwise off-limits.
RULE 1 (VERY IMPORTANT):Due to the damaging effects of a nuclear blast, the sun is especially dangerous now. Unfortunately, survivor, this means you cannot, under any circumstances, head outside unprotected during the day. Stay sheltered, and survive. If you have to, you can scavenge after sunset, but it is advised that the survivor stay in his shelter when possible.
Also note that, should you have the resources to do so any suit of armor will reasonably protect you from radiation, assuming that it is kept in good repair (Above orange). It is then possible for the survivor to make surface excursions during the day. This armor cannot be allowed back into the compound, however, and must be left in the airlock when you return.
RULE 2:It is very dangerous to touch things outside of your shelter. The fallout can and will contaminate everything directly exposed to the weather, so any mobs that are outside are off limits, including their drops, and even at night. You cannot use or (especially) consume anything that comes from a contaminated source. With this in mind, you still have several options.
Firstly, assuming your preparations were inadequate, you can use breeding/harvesting of exposed food sources to introduce clean animals and plants to your shelter. By breeding/harvesting 3 generations of a given animal or plant, the results should be usable to the survivor. Of course, the parents and their products must be disposed of. During the process, the animals/plants should be quarantined in a decontamination room, separated from the rest of the compound by an airlock and 3-thick walls.
Second, you can create a decontamination machine (Intended to be endgame...) The construction must include: a chest (for contaminated items) in a 3x3x3 room, with water covering it. The walls must be made of stone brick, and the machine must be connected by a lever to at least 4 pistons on a repeating clock, to make it more machine-y. After a player-determined length of time, items left in the decontaminator are safe for use.
RULE 3:Getting fresh water is somewhat difficult in the radioactive world you are now in. Any outside sources are contaminated with fallout, and cannot be used for anything inside your shelter. To get safe water, it is advised that the survivor search caves or find hidden underground lakes. Both are reasonably common, but can be challenging to obtain at first. One of your first priorities will be creating a source of clean water, so be on the lookout.
RULE 4:Your shelter: There are several guidelines to creating a safe environment in this wasteland. In addition to the thick outer walls (3 blocks, to be exact), other precautions must be put in place. Any entrances from outside must be separated from the rest of the compound by an airlock (a small room with a door on each end). The airlock must contain a running source of clean water to clean any items that went outside with you and deposit them safely in a different room inside the compound.(That is only for bringing items in, however. Any airlock is fine without the water, your items just have to be left outside)
. This must be done before any outside materials can be brought into your shelter (Outdoor mobs and their drops are still off limits). Any armor that has been outside must be left in a chest inside the airlock.
For security reasons, All rooms should have doors at all entrances and exits, and large rooms (Aside from the farms) are discouraged. In order to have an adequate shelter, the following rooms are priorities: Farms (for wood and food), A bedroom, storage facilities, etc. Once the essentials have been secured, the survivor should have at least one of each of the following:
-A morale boosting room, such as a library, chapel, garden, etc.
-A defense oriented room, such as an armory, target range, etc.
-A portal room (for accessing the nether)
To Finish The Challenge: Assuming the survivor wants to return to surface dwelling after creating the ultimate underground utopia, he has several available routes to follow.
-Waiting it out: After 180 minecraft days, the survivor may safely return to the surface (Good luck keeping track...). Otherwise, a stasis chamber, built in the nether or separated from the shelter by at least 64 blocks, and connected by an emergency minecart rail can be constructed. The chamber need only be one room, stocked with enough supplies to start a new shelter if needed and equipped with whatever your imagination dictates is necessary to preserve you in the worst case scenario. The pod in which you wait must be built of something at least as strong as iron blocks. When you come out of stasis, you've won.
-Escape: Possibly the easiest, but probably the most boring route, you can simply tunnel an escape route away from the blast zone. Feel free to set your own distance requirement, but the standard is set at 256 blocks from your shelter. The tunnel must be 3 blocks wide, and 3 blocks high, and well-lit for its entire length. When you emerge on the other end, you've won.
-Drop the Science: Create a cure. If you are able to brew 5 potion of regeneration II, you can make yourself hardy enough to adapt to the new conditions. -
Jun 11, 20126
SquidDeck posted a message on Survival can, and should be, improved (Part 2: Electric Boogaloo)Yes, yes, yes. I agree to everything.Posted in: Survival Mode -
Jun 6, 201250
MarshallRA posted a message on The "survival" part of the game is bad on a fundamental level.I agree with this almost 100%. Well thought out post, if only there were more like you in the minecraft community.Posted in: Survival Mode -
Mar 28, 20121
ishyman posted a message on What have you done recently?the most amazing thing I've done lately is started playing again. (agian...)Posted in: Survival Mode -
Jul 5, 2011232
Kastrel posted a message on The Collector: RebornNews!Posted in: Survival Mode
- List up to date as of February 1, now with 1.1 items and current snapshots!
Ever since The Collector and 2 Double Chests I have been very driven to accomplish some semblance of this goal. Filling a double chest with every item in the game is a daunting task, but in some ways, is not quite as bad as many imagine. Resource aquisition is my favorite aspect of Minecraft, and I feel I cannot build until I have a sufficient quantity of a certain item. There has been some demand for my to make my own thread on this subject for a little while, and I guess its not such a bad idea. I want to give credit to Arbitrax and Eleutherius for creating their original threads; I can never claim this was originally my idea.
The biggest difference between my final goal, and that of the makers of these inspirational threads is that I have never had any hope to truly achieve "a double chest of EVERYTHING". Maybe I'm a pessimist; certain items just sound SO unrealistic, I don't want to set my sights too high. In some ways, certain items don't seem like they warrant having. For instance, why make a double chest full of wooden shovels? I can make it at any time, it only takes 27 wood.
Some advanced items also seem like a waste of time. Using 3456 (the amount held within a double chest) of a resource is a very distinct possibility. Using 3456 jukeboxes, on the other hand . . . seems out of the question.
That being said . . . I'm not willing to entirely ignore these items, but in the name of not burning myself out, I have made a "moderate" list which will still be sufficiently difficult to achieve, without being completely out of the question. I will include excluded items in a separate list, as a bonus, but I will not feel driven to complete them until I finish.
I invite anyone to join me in this endeavor. There is no shame in trying, and then giving up. I myself have no intention of doing so.
I've gone on long enough. Here is my list and current completion, as well as a list of currently excluded items!
My Collection:
Blocks:
Dirt - DONE
Sand - DONE
Sandstone - DONE
Sandstone Half-block - DONE
Glass - DONE
Glass Panes - DONE
Gravel - DONE
Clay - DONE
Bricks - DONE
Brick Stairs
1/54 stacks
Brick Half-Block
18/54 stacks
Cobblestone - DONE
Mossy Cobblestone - DONE
Cobblestone Half-block - DONE
Cobblestone Stairs
2/54 stacks Stone
Smoothstone - DONE
Smoothstone Half-block - DONE
Stone Brick - DONE
Cracked Stone Brick - DONE
Mossy Stone Brick - DONE
Stone Brick Half-Block
4/54 stacks
Stone Brick Stairs - DONE
Normal Wood - DONE
Birchwood - DONE
Pinewood - DONE
Jungle Wood
0/54 stacks
Planks - DONE
Wood Half-block - DONE
Wooden Stairs - DONE
Netherrack - DONE
Soul Sand - DONE
Nether Bricks - DONE
Nether Stairs
2/54 stacks
Nether Fences
14/54 stacks
Snow Block - DONE
Obsidian
24/54 stacks
End Stone - DONE
Ores and Valuable Minerals:
Coal/Charcoal - DONE
Iron Ingot - DONE
Iron Block
19/54 stacks
Gold Nuggets
0/54 stacks
Gold Ingot
39/54 stacks
Diamond
17/54 stacks
Lapis Lazuli - DONE
Redstone Dust - DONE
Flint - DONE
Glowstone Dust - DONE
Glowstone
33/54 stacks
Plant Matter:
Red Flower - DONE
Yellow Flower - DONE
Normal Wood Sapling - DONE
Birchwood Sapling - DONE
Pine Sapling - DONE
Jungle Sapling
0/54 stacks
Leaves - DONE
Birch Leaves - DONE
Pine Leaves - DONE
Jungle Leaves
0/54 stacks
Apples
3/54 stacks
Golden Apples
0/54 stacks
Cactus - DONE
Sugar Cane - DONE
Tall Grass - DONE
Ferns
0/54 stacks
Vines
18/54 stacks
Lily Pads
9/54 stacks
Seeds - DONE
Wheat - DONE
Red Mushrooms - DONE
Brown Mushrooms - DONE
Pumpkin Seeds - DONE
Pumpkin - DONE
Jack'o'Lantern - DONE
Watermelon Seed - DONE
Watermelon Blocks - DONE
Watermelon Slices - DONE
Glistering Melon
0/54 stacks
Nether Wart Seeds - DONE
Mob Drops:
Raw Pork
9/54 stacks
Cooked Pork
18/54 stacks
Raw Beef
1/54 stacks
Cooked Beef
1/54 stacks
Leather - DONE
Raw Chicken
1/54 stacks
Cooked Chicken
0/54 stacks
Feather - DONE
Eggs - DONE
White Wool - DONE
Light Grey Wool
9/54 stacks
Grey Wool
9/54 stacks
Black Wool
9/54 stacks
Pink Wool
9/54 stacks
Brown Wool
6/54 stacks
Orange Wool
9/54 stacks
Red Wool
9/54 stacks
Yellow Wool
9/54 stacks
Lime Wool
9/54 stacks
Green Wool
9/54 stacks
Cyan Wool
0/54 stacks
Light Blue Wool
0/54 stacks
Blue Wool
0/54 stacks
Purple Wool
0/54 stacks
Magenta Wool
0/54 stacks
Ink Sacks - DONE
String - DONE
Spider Eye
2/54 stacks
Gunpowder - DONE
Slimeballs - DONE
Bones - DONE
Rotten Meat - DONE
Enderpearls
21/54 stacks
Blaze Rod
26/54 stacks
Food:
Bread - DONE
Bowl - DONE
Mushroom Soup - DONE
Sugar - DONE
Cake - DONE
Raw Fish
1/54 stacks
Cooked Fish
1/54 stacks
Bucket of Milk
0/54
Technology, Circuitry and Doorways:
Wooden Door - DONE
Iron Door - DONE
Trapdoor - DONE
Fence Gates
12/54 stacks
Minecart Track
21/54 stacks
Powered Rail
0/54 stacks
Detector Rail
0/54 stacks
Minecart
11/54
Storage Cart
0/54
Powered Cart
0/54
Boat - DONE
Lever
1/54 stacks
Button
2/54 stacks
Stone Pressure Plate
1/54 stacks
Wooden Pressure Plate - DONE
Noteblock
0/54 stacks
Dispenser - DONE
Piston
0/54 stacks
Sticky Piston
0/54 stacks
Redstone Torch
6/54 stacks
Redstone Repeater - DONE
TNT - DONE
Alchemy:
Brewing Stand
0/54 stacks
Glass Bottles
8/54 stacks
Cauldron
0/54 stacks
Blaze Powder
0/54 stacks
Magma Cream
0/54 stacks
Fermented Spider Eye
0/54 stacks
Tools:
Flint and Steel - DONE
Fire Charge
0/54 stacks
Bow - DONE
Arrows - DONE
Torch - DONE
Bucket - DONE
Bucket of Water
27/54 gained
Bucket of Lava - DONE
Fishing Rod - DONE
Map
1/54 gained
Shears
0/54 gained
Saddle - DONE
Miscellaneous:
Workbench - DONE
Chests
11/54 stacks
Furnace
1/54 stacks
Bed - DONE
Ladder - DONE
Fences - DONE
Iron Bars
7/54 stacks
Stick - DONE
Sign - DONE
Painting - DONE
Brick Ingot - DONE
Clay Ball - DONE
Paper - DONE
Books - DONE
Bookcase - DONE
Bonemeal - DONE
Snowball - DONE
"13" Golden Record
36/54 gained
"Cat" Neon Green Disc
35/54 gained
"Blocks" Red Disc
0/54 gained
"Chirp" Crimson Disc
0/54 gained
"Far" Light Green Disc
0/54 gained
"Mall" Blue Disc
0/54 gained
"Mellohi" Purple Disc
0/54 gained
"Stal" Black Disc
0/54 gained
"Strad" White Disc
0/54 gained
"Ward" Dark Green Disc
0/54 gained
Empty List for Newcomers!:
Blocks:
Dirt
0/54 stacks
Sand
0/54 stacks
Sandstone
0/54 stacks
Sandstone Half-block
0/54 stacks
Glass
0/54 stacks
Glass Panes
0/54 stacks
Gravel
0/54 stacks
Clay
0/54 stacks
Bricks
0/54 stacks
Brick Stairs
0/54 stacks
Brick Half-Block
0/54 stacks
Cobblestone
0/54 stacks
Mossy Cobblestone
0/54 stacks
Cobblestone Half-block
0/54 stacks
Cobblestone Stairs
0/54 stacks Stone
Smoothstone
0/54 stacks
Smoothstone Half-block
0/54 stacks
Stone Brick
0/54 stacks
Cracked Stone Brick
0/54 stacks
Mossy Stone Brick
0/54 stacks
Stone Brick Half-Block
0/54 stacks
Stone Brick Stairs
0/54 stacks
Normal Wood
0/54 stacks
Birchwood
0/54 stacks
Pinewood
0/54 stacks
Jungle Wood
0/54 stacks
Planks
0/54 stacks
Wood Half-block
0/54 stacks
Wooden Stairs
0/54 stacks
Netherrack
0/54 stacks
Soul Sand
0/54 stacks
Nether Bricks
0/54 stacks
Nether Stairs
0/54 stacks
Nether Fences
0/54 stacks
Snow Block
0/54 stacks
Obsidian
0/54 stacks
End Stone
0/54 stacks
Ores and Valuable Minerals:
Coal/Charcoal
0/54 stacks
Iron Ingot
0/54 stacks
Iron Block
0/54 stacks
Gold Nuggets
0/54 stacks
Gold Ingot
0/54 stacks
Diamond
0/54 stacks
Lapis Lazuli
0/54 stacks
Redstone Dust
0/54 stacks
Flint
0/54 stacks
Glowstone Dust
0/54 stacks
Glowstone
0/54 stacks
Plant Matter:
Red Flower
0/54 stacks
Yellow Flower
0/54 stacks
Normal Wood Sapling
0/54 stacks
Birchwood Sapling
0/54 stacks
Pine Sapling
0/54 stacks
Jungle Sapling
0/54 stacks
Leaves
0/54 stacks
Birch Leaves
0/54 stacks
Pine Leaves
0/54 stacks
Jungle Leaves
0/54 stacks
Apples
0/54 stacks
Golden Apples
0/54 stacks
Cactus
0/54 stacks
Sugar Cane
0/54 stacks
Tall Grass
0/54 stacks
Ferns
0/54 stacks
Vines
0/54 stacks
Lily Pads
0/54 stacks
Seeds
0/54 stacks
Wheat
0/54 stacks
Red Mushrooms
0/54 stacks
Brown Mushrooms
0/54 stacks
Pumpkin Seeds
0/54 stacks
Pumpkin
0/54 stacks
Jack'o'Lantern
0/54 stacks
Watermelon Seed
0/54 stacks
Watermelon Blocks
0/54 stacks
Watermelon Slices
0/54 stacks
Glistering Melon
0/54 stacks
Nether Wart Seeds
0/54 stacks
Mob Drops:
Raw Pork
0/54 stacks
Cooked Pork
0/54 stacks
Raw Beef
0/54 stacks
Cooked Beef
0/54 stacks
Leather
0/54 stacks
Raw Chicken
0/54 stacks
Cooked Chicken
0/54 stacks
Feather
0/54 stacks
Eggs
0/54 stacks
White Wool
0/54 stacks
Light Grey Wool
0/54 stacks
Grey Wool
0/54 stacks
Black Wool
0/54 stacks
Pink Wool
0/54 stacks
Brown Wool
0/54 stacks
Orange Wool
0/54 stacks
Red Wool
0/54 stacks
Yellow Wool
0/54 stacks
Lime Wool
0/54 stacks
Green Wool
0/54 stacks
Cyan Wool
0/54 stacks
Light Blue Wool
0/54 stacks
Blue Wool
0/54 stacks
Purple Wool
0/54 stacks
Magenta Wool
0/54 stacks
Ink Sacks
0/54 stacks
String
0/54 stacks
Spider Eye
0/54 stacks
Gunpowder
0/54 stacks
Slimeballs
0/54 stacks
Bones
0/54 stacks
Rotten Meat
0/54 stacks
Enderpearls
0/54 stacks
Blaze Rod
0/54 stacks
Food:
Bread
0/54 stacks
Bowl
0/54 stacks
Mushroom Soup
0/54
Sugar
0/54 stacks
Cake
0/54
Cookie
0/54 stacks
Raw Fish
0/54 stacks
Cooked Fish
0/54 stacks
Bucket of Milk
0/54
Technology, Circuitry and Doorways:
Wooden Door
0/54
Iron Door
0/54
Trapdoor
0/54 stacks
Fence Gates
0/54 stacks
Minecart Track
0/54 stacks
Powered Rail
0/54 stacks
Detector Rail
0/54 stacks
Minecart
0/54
Storage Cart
0/54
Powered Cart
0/54
Boat
0/54
Lever
0/54 stacks
Button
0/54 stacks
Stone Pressure Plate
0/54 stacks
Wooden Pressure Plate
0/54 stacks
Noteblock
0/54 stacks
Dispenser
0/54 stacks
Piston
0/54 stacks
Sticky Piston
0/54 stacks
Redstone Torch
0/54 stacks
Redstone Repeater
0/54 stacks
TNT
0/54 stacks
Alchemy:
Brewing Stand
0/54 stacks
Glass Bottles
0/54 stacks
Cauldron
0/54 stacks
Blaze Powder
0/54 stacks
Magma Cream
0/54 stacks
Fermented Spider Eye
0/54 stacks
Tools:
Flint and Steel
0/54 stacks
Fire Charge
0/54 stacks
Bow
0/54
Arrows
0/54 stacks
Torch
0/54 stacks
Bucket
0/54 stacks
Bucket of Water
0/54
Bucket of Lava
0/54 stacks
Fishing Rod
0/54 stacks
Map
0/54 gained
Shears
0/54 gained
Saddle
0/54
Miscellaneous:
Workbench
0/54 stacks
Chests
0/54 stacks
Furnace
0/54 stacks
Bed
0/54
Ladder
0/54 stacks
Fences
0/54 stacks
Iron Bars
0/54 stacks
Stick
0/54 stacks
Sign
0/54 stacks
Painting
0/54 stacks
Brick
0/54 stacks
Clay Ball
0/54 stacks
Paper
0/54 stacks
Books
0/54 stacks
Bookcase
0/54 stacks
Bonemeal
0/54 stacks
Snowball
0/54 stacks
"13" Golden Record
0/54 gained
"Cat" Neon Green Record
0/54 gained
"Blocks" Red Disc
0/54 gained
"Chirp" Crimson Disc
0/54 gained
"Far" Light Green Disc
0/54 gained
"Mall" Blue Disc
0/54 gained
"Mellohi" Purple Disc
0/54 gained
"Stal" Black Disc
0/54 gained
"Strad" White Disc
0/54 gained
"Ward" Dark Green Disc
0/54 gained
Total: 102/187
Bonus/Silk Touch Exclusives:
Mycelium
Grassy Dirt
Mushroom Blocks Stalk
Mushroom blocks (red cap)
Mushroom blocks (brown cap)
Redstone Ore
Bonus/Exempt List:
Excluded List:
Too Difficult
Cookies
Cocoa Beans
Gold Ore
Gold Block
Diamond Block
Diamond Ore
Lapis Block
Lapis Ore
Jukebox
Compass
Clock
Enchanting Table
Ghast Tear
Eye of Ender
Diamond Ore
Lapis Ore
Red Dye
Green Dye
Purple Dye
Light Blue Dye
Light Grey Dye
Grey Dye
Pink Dye
Lime Dye
Yellow Dye
Cyan Dye
Magenta Dye
Orange Dye
Redundant:
Coal Ore
Iron Ore
Wooden Pickaxe
Wooden Axe
Wooden Sword
Wooden Shovel
Wooden Hoe
Stone Pickaxe
Stone Axe
Stone Sword
Stone Shovel
Stone Hoe
Iron Pickaxe
Iron Axe
Iron Sword
Iron Shovel
Iron Hoe
Diamond Pickaxe
Diamond Axe
Diamond Sword
Diamond Shovel
Diamond Hoe
Golden Pickaxe
Golden Axe
Golden Sword
Golden Shovel
Gold Hoe
Leather Helmet
Leather Body
Leather Legs
Leather Boots
Iron Helmet
Iron Body
Iron Legs
Iron Boots
Diamond Helmet
Diamond Body
Diamond Legs
Diamond Boots
Golden Helmet
Golden Body
Golden Legs
Golden Boots
-
Sep 1, 201136
xLakota posted a message on Torch Efficient MiningThe purpose of this thread is to find forms of mining that make the most use of every single torch.Posted in: Survival Mode
This may be useful in a situation where one has run low on torches, and is either unwilling or unable to pick up ones he or she has placed.
Some notes about lighting/Definitions:
"Usable Torchlight" - the area a single torch can light up to prevent the spawning of hostile mobs.
There are 16 levels of light in minecraft, from 0-15.
A light level of 15, the brightest can be considered 100% brightness. Each light level has 80% the brightness of the level above it, so level 14 is 80%, 13 is 64% and so on. A light level of 7, the maximum at which hostile mobs can spawn has 16.78% brightness. a light level of 0, the lowest in the game, still has 4.40% the brightness of direct sunlight.
Light will decrease one level per block on any axis, (x, y, z).
This means a block diagonally adjacent to a block with a light level of 13 would have decreased twice (1x, 1z) to a level of 11.
this also means, light spreads out in a diamond shape, not a circle shape.
Light moving from the top of a block to the side of a block will decrease a light level.
Torches emit a light level of of 14.
This means any tile 6 blocks away or less from a torch cannot spawn a mob.
Before spawning a mob on a block, the game checks that the upward face of that block have a light level below 8 (of 7 or lower).
Obviously, this means it does not matter what light level the ceiling is, it does not affect mob spawning. (just saying)
Less obviously, a torch placed on ground level will cast the most "usable torchlight"
SO. onto the forms of mining.
Branch Mining. Assuming a 1x2 Straight mine.
Torches may be placed 12 blocks apart, or every 13 blocks.
The light pattern on the floor of this mine will be as folllows.
[14][13][12][11][10][9]8][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]
A 3-wide mine would need a torch every 12 blocks down the center row, a 5-wide mine would need a torch every 11 blocks, and so on. a 13-wide mine (i dont know why anyone would do this) would need a torch EVERY block down the center row.
A 14 wide mine would need two torches per row, ever 7 rows, 4 blocks away from either wall.
Any flat Floor area can be safely covered by starting in one corner and having a torch every 13th block, and every 7th block diagonally.
by putting a torch down in the center of an area, a total of 658 blocks can be mined without having any area for hostile mobs to spawn.
this can be done by
1 mining 13 blocks straight ahead, placing a torch on the middle row
2 working back to the other end while making every row increasingly larger on either side, until the middle row is 13 blocks wide, then smaller on either side until the other endpoint is reached.
the rows should be as follows in width:
1,3,5,7,9,11,13,11,9,7,5,3,1.
3next look directly up on each tile and mine as far as you can reach. be careful for gravel!
4 next mine down one step in every area besides the edges and the center. repeat until the center pillar is reached. mine out the center pillar, every block besides the one holding the torch, and the one that touches the floor.
I know that was confusing, but itll look like this when youre done.
As you can see, every block has a light level of 8, and I've made the absolute most of the torch. Thanks torch!
Note: i didn't mine the ceiling out, i was running low on picks.
So yea. Thats the idiots guide to torch-efficient mining and lighting. Sorry in advance for any typos or confusion.
if it was interesting and or helpful, click that green plus in the corner of this post! thanks:D -
Aug 8, 20119
MCFUser539474 posted a message on Sand Inventory Mod?i have an idea for a mod, it's called sand inventory. what it basically does is pretend your are mining and you pickaxe breaks another one will fall into place where you broke your pickaxe. it will fall down if the pickaxe is in the same column so you don't have to go into your into your inventory and and get another pickaxe. it is called sand inventory because it acts like sand and fall down. it might be hard to understand but.. meh i don't know.Posted in: Survival Mode
i am not thinking of making it myself because i don't have any clue on making a mod. i am just putting it out there as an idea
Thanks. Cool-_-Guy - To post a comment, please login.
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I began a new world in 1.8.1, immediately setting out to create a base in a mountain, just to recreate that old sense of discovery from my early days. I saw a natural cave in a mountain, so I headed into it, wooden blade in hand. Luckily, there were no mobs yet and there was plenty of coal. The cave opening was near the top of one of those epic mountains that is above block 100. heading down to sea level to make a more accessible door, I saw another tunnel branching off. I sealed it with glass and then put a door in so that I could mine it at night. I eventually got down into the cave system, where a nightmare encountered my eyes.
A ravine. I kitted myself out with torches, weapons and whatnot before heading into the ravine. I headed to one end where I found a branching cave system. Heading to the other end, I found a abandoned mine shaft. After a close call with a cave spider, I headed back into my base and set up a quarry. Digging down, I eventually hit this almost circular room. There were two exits from the room. I fought off the Endermen by emptying a bucket of water on the floor, then headed down one of the passages, which lead to a monolithic ravine. On one side of the ravine, (side, not end) there were a dozen caves that opened into the ravine itself. I explored these caves and found a passage up I ignored it, and went to an end of the ravine, where I found 3 ravines congregating at point.
Long story short, I explored the majority of those passages, and both of the cave systems linked together. In the end, I explored the abandoned Mine shaft. Surprise Surprise, It led into another MASSIVE network of caves.
As I said before, I both love and hate these cave systems.
I love them because I got so much loot that I completely filled a double chest with coal, iron and redstone. By the end of the exploration to date, I found 19 diamonds. The battles during the exploration where quite hectic and bloody, and to my eternal pride, I did not die :biggrin.gif:. It was also a golden opportunity to mess around with critical hits and the new bow and arrow system. I think that my survival was, in large part, due to the new health system. But that's a topic for another thread.
I hate them because they have literally made it impossible for me to build an efficient mining hub down near layer 16. It sucks, I'd normally have at least a stack of diamonds by this time in my world. Furthermore, I can't build my habitual mob grinder because of the mass of caves undermining the ENTIRE FREAKING SUBCONTINENT. SERIOUSLY. WHAT THE HELL? It is ridiculous how expansive these systems are. They're fun to explore, don't get me wrong, but they are a pain to build around. I normally end up with a well constructed system of rooms and passages that lead down to bedrock, but NOW, with the big, fancy ADVENTURE update, ADVENTURE seems to be the only thing you can do underground.
I do enjoy the caves, I really do, but I seriously feel that the expansive nature of these new systems wreackes havoc with people who want to, you know, settle down. On the plus side, I can now ADVENTURE at night, but I still feel that these caves are just TOO DAMNED BIG.
Just my two cents.
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New word invented: DERPOLOGICAL
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So basically, you decided to post to repeat what someone else said a couple of pages back? I do not see the logic
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About that, Soul Sand works better than half blocks to stop boats, and it doesn't damage them either