I disagree to that, The precipricks you mentioned never really contributed anywhere outside of precipice roleplaywise (with some exceptions), sure they created that workshop (which they don't want anyone changing) and did a bit of staff work (which felt biased in my opinion) but they just OOCd all day in the last version of this thread and their book of an OOC. There are still many veterans around MCF in the shadows, those people I'm not complaining about.
I also feel that this "decline" is no different than the other declines that have happened all in the 2-3 years prior, it was happening whether they stayed or not
Yes, let's forget the giant tutorial Precipricks created, and got stickied. Let's forget this very thread, created by a Preciprick. Those were only small contributions, no?
And please. Don't even cry bias when it comes to my moderation days. You and a ton of the people here would have been suspended numerous times had I enforced the rules. I didn't just protect Precipricks. I protected the entire Roleplaying section from what I believed were ridiculous rules, of which half of you broke at least once or twice. Had I been biased, I would have gone into your threads and locked them. Not because you like to complain, and that's annoying, but because I can guarantee you there's enough spam in there to get it locked. If not spam, pointless bickering.
And trust me, I went into your threads when I was a mod. I could have impressed a lot of power-hungry twelve year-olds with the sheer amount of suspensions I would have handed, had I enforced the rules. Not just your threads - most threads in this section. There were so many times I could have handed warnings and suspensions, and I didn't. That's why they de-modded me. Rightly so, I suppose. But don't give me crap about how I was biased.
That seems to do more with GM's failing to enforce their own rules. I don't think "Don't Powerplay" should be plastered everywhere. Especially not in a tutorial, where the space could be used for better advice. The General RP Chat already states what Powerplaying is, and that it's bad. Roleplays run by competent GM's list it as a 'Don't'. It doesn't need to be said anywhere else. And if it's not listed as a rule in an RP, when it happens, there is no one to blame but the GM.
Like I said, the space could be used for something better, that isn't already listed as a 'Don't' elsewhere.
It's a pretty simple thing to grasp. I don't need to spend as much time here as I used to, to understand why your reasoning for wanting to reboot the thread was.. silly.
But if it really matters to you so much that you need to point it out like it validates your point in any way, no I haven't really stuck around. Your post happened to be the first one I read after a few days of not peeking into MCF, so I replied.
Because 90% of people on this forum might click then go, 'lol nope, such reads. too grammar. must skip.'
This is not a valid reason to change anything in it. That's a personal problem, not a problem with the thread itself.
The others have A: Read it and acknowledged it. (That was my breakfast readings a few months ago.)
B: Read it and ignored it
C: Ignored it altogether.
This is silly.
Those who have read it and acknowledged it did so because they are interested in improving their writing. That's why they took the time to read it and learn from it. Those who didn't read it, ignored it because they're not interested in improving or taking writing more seriously than they currently do. It wouldn't matter to them if it was more concise, because they're not interested in improving. Someone who wants to get better, would take the time to read it. If they don't, it's because they don't care to.
The thread is there for those who are interested in getting better. It doesn't make any sense to mess with its quality in an effort to try and appeal to people who don't give a damn anyway. It's fine the way it is. People who are serious about writing, and want to learn, will go through the trouble of reading it. Those who aren't, won't. That's how it's going to be no matter what.
People who are serious about writing aren't afraid to read a lengthy post, especially if it means learning from it. Those who are afraid probably aren't very good writers, and probably never will be, because they don't care to improve.
We don't need to mess with the thread. It's fine the way it is and it's nonsensical to mess with it just because some people, who don't give a damn either way, aren't reading it due to it's length. Those people wouldn't read it even if we made a more concise version. Because they don't care.
And if they read it and ignored its contents anyway, then that's their problem too, not the thread's.
EDIT: I realize I just repeated the same thing in like four different ways.
If we reboot it we could try to make it slightly more appealing to those from the first and last two groups.
Why does the Workshop need rebooting? Isn't it just an in-depth tutorial? Why do you need to update it, or mess with it? It's probably fine the way it is.
In regards to PoW, yeah. We kinda do. There are points in the story of importance, that we like to reference. And there are timskips. But there is no end. And as far as I know we haven't planned one, and probably never will.
The idea was entertained, having a 'serious forum roleplay', and a regular 'forum roleplay' subsection, but the mods cried 'Elitism!' and, in that case, they did have a fair point.
Not really.
Some people like to roleplay casually, others like to do it more seriously. It's silly to put everyone into the same section. It creates disorganization, for one. There's nothing wrong with separating them into sub-sections. Certain sites do it, and it works great. No one cries elitism because, well.. it isn't.
And comparing it to racial segregation is ridiculous. All the reasons why that comparison is laughable and maybe even offensive aside, no one would be preventing casual players from making the jump into serious writing.
That rule was never really in practice. Neilsaur liked to throw it around every now and then, but it'd just be met with butthurt that eventually caught the mods' attention.
That being said, I don't think it'd do well even then. The moderators didn't like it being a rule. If I remember correctly, they were mad that Neilsaur was making it seem like it was an official rule, when it wasn't. They were afraid it would scare people away (which is funny given they've done that on their own now).
Would the RP section have been better with the rule in place? Probably. Would it ever have a chance at being in place? No.
The RP section prospered the most during its Fan Art phase, when AYF (who I think then became a mod and stopped RPing, at least here, forever) was the guy everyone looked up to for his really long-lived RP (that also happened to be my first ever). Neilsaur showed up later, and was a part of that RP for a short while. Then I think AYF left and Neilsaur, Stingray and I became the main guys. Then I think Absolution (or whatever his name was, I forget) showed up. The RP section did fine during that time, and the moderators never bothered us.
It wasn't until people started getting butthurt over constructive criticism (and Neilsaur's "rule") that the moderators started to get involved. And then people slowly left. I was one of the few people to stay after that (Chatix being one of the others I remember, and I think Masked Krusader). But from there, with a new section and (eventually) stricter rules, everything went downhill.
There are some really golden posts in that thread.
The former mods were too optimistic.
Oh well.
Cept for Animator, he kinda hammered that thread into a stone tablet and stuck it up on the mountaintop for all to see.
If by optimistic you mean in regards to the RP section back then, sure. But I think that, regardless of how you feel about me and the Precipice crew, we can all agree the moderators are anything but optimistic. We're talking about people who warn you (and suspend you, even), for typing out the vulgar version of 'urinate' (a four letter word). I never denied what I did as a moderator. Even when I was de-modded and confronted about it, I admitted it rather flatly: I protected people. And not just the Precipice guys.
I can honestly say that most of the people in this thread could have been warned, or even suspended at some point, had I enforced some of the ridiculous rules on this site. Instead I'd turn a blind eye regardless of who you were. Or even go beyond that.
I wish I could say this (and more) without having my message taken down under some bogus claim of thread derailment too. I do hope the moderators can take a bit of criticism, especially in regards to how it may be best to moderate the RP section (funny coming from me, I know, someone fired), but seeing how they've handled some of the criticism lately, probably not. Still, dumb rules aside, I think the RP section (and probably every section, for that matter) needs some breathing space.
You (administration) may not realize it. Hell, I know you don't. But you're squeezing the life out of this place. It's hard to have fun when you're over people's shoulders. It's hard to write when you can't even say 'urinate' the wrong way. Hell, you can't even go a bit off-topic here or in OOC threads. Do it and you risk the entire thread getting taken down. And if someone hates you enough to report your OOC thread, I can guarantee you the mods will find enough off-topic talk in it to lock it.
Same with cursing. You can make the most reasonable argument in defense of why you bypassed the filter to curse. A good one would be because, gee, I don't know, WE'RE WRITING. Any good writer knows the importance of laying out a world in a way that is believable. When exploring war, it's important to go into the details no matter how messed up. When writing about an addict, it's important to capture how he feels, what he does, no matter how troubling. And when you're writing about a dude who curses a lot (or has a good reason to), it's really nice when you can do it without turning your post into an asterisk rave, or worrying that some moderator will see that you bypassed the filter and delete all your hard work.
I'd have lost count if I counted all the times I could have removed or altered someone's post because they cursed in it. But I never did it because, as a writer, I know how much hard work goes into it sometimes. And I know that sometimes cursing is necessary in writing.
I could go on for a while on why this site has gone downhill. But it wouldn't matter, and that's what really sucks.
I was here from the start, back when we RP'd in Fan Art. Back before even Neilsaur. And it was great. Everyone had fun, the moderators were more laid back, and no one ever got into trouble. I wish things could go back to that, even if I never join an RP here again. I'd just like to see it happen, because I do remember RPing here, back then, was awesome. And it'd be nice to see it again.
Then it went downhill. I couldn't even pinpoint the exact moment, honestly. But it had something to do with us finally getting our own section (which, by the way, I helped bring about *insertbragginghere*), and someone complaining about certain people being too hard on them (which was half-BS). And after that, the mods got involved. And that lead to the 'Do Not Disrupt RPs' thread.
Were people too hard on some players back then? Yeah. I even say it in the Do Not Disrupt RPs thread, if you care to look far enough in it. Was it as bad as they claimed? Not really. Half the time it was someone taking constructive criticism the wrong way, and then getting the moderators involved.
Eventually, all the people that helped keep the section running nicely (Absolution(sp?), Neilsaur, Stingray, AYF, ect) left. Only me and a handful of others stayed. And then you more or less know the rest. The section just started to go down from there, and the stricter rules, in my opinion, are partly to blame.
I admit a dedicated section may have been a mistake, looking back. And I could start blaming new players and whatnot too, and honestly, there'd be some truth in it (Dedicated section separate from Fan Art meant inexperienced people flooded in, quality went down, butthurt over constructive criticism went up, ect). But I won't even go there.
Point is, I sincerely believe heavy moderation won't help this section in the least. Best case scenario: moderators realize that and ease up. Worst case scenario: the section continues to spiral down like the fiery wreck it's become.
All the drama aside, I do hope it recovers. But I have my doubts.
3
Yes, let's forget the giant tutorial Precipricks created, and got stickied. Let's forget this very thread, created by a Preciprick. Those were only small contributions, no?
And please. Don't even cry bias when it comes to my moderation days. You and a ton of the people here would have been suspended numerous times had I enforced the rules. I didn't just protect Precipricks. I protected the entire Roleplaying section from what I believed were ridiculous rules, of which half of you broke at least once or twice. Had I been biased, I would have gone into your threads and locked them. Not because you like to complain, and that's annoying, but because I can guarantee you there's enough spam in there to get it locked. If not spam, pointless bickering.
And trust me, I went into your threads when I was a mod. I could have impressed a lot of power-hungry twelve year-olds with the sheer amount of suspensions I would have handed, had I enforced the rules. Not just your threads - most threads in this section. There were so many times I could have handed warnings and suspensions, and I didn't. That's why they de-modded me. Rightly so, I suppose. But don't give me crap about how I was biased.
0
Like I said, the space could be used for something better, that isn't already listed as a 'Don't' elsewhere.
0
0
But if it really matters to you so much that you need to point it out like it validates your point in any way, no I haven't really stuck around. Your post happened to be the first one I read after a few days of not peeking into MCF, so I replied.
0
This is not a valid reason to change anything in it. That's a personal problem, not a problem with the thread itself.
This is silly.
Those who have read it and acknowledged it did so because they are interested in improving their writing. That's why they took the time to read it and learn from it. Those who didn't read it, ignored it because they're not interested in improving or taking writing more seriously than they currently do. It wouldn't matter to them if it was more concise, because they're not interested in improving. Someone who wants to get better, would take the time to read it. If they don't, it's because they don't care to.
The thread is there for those who are interested in getting better. It doesn't make any sense to mess with its quality in an effort to try and appeal to people who don't give a damn anyway. It's fine the way it is. People who are serious about writing, and want to learn, will go through the trouble of reading it. Those who aren't, won't. That's how it's going to be no matter what.
People who are serious about writing aren't afraid to read a lengthy post, especially if it means learning from it. Those who are afraid probably aren't very good writers, and probably never will be, because they don't care to improve.
We don't need to mess with the thread. It's fine the way it is and it's nonsensical to mess with it just because some people, who don't give a damn either way, aren't reading it due to it's length. Those people wouldn't read it even if we made a more concise version. Because they don't care.
And if they read it and ignored its contents anyway, then that's their problem too, not the thread's.
EDIT: I realize I just repeated the same thing in like four different ways.
Or you could ruin it.
0
0
In regards to PoW, yeah. We kinda do. There are points in the story of importance, that we like to reference. And there are timskips. But there is no end. And as far as I know we haven't planned one, and probably never will.
0
The Lannisters sent him their regards.
@Cloud: PoW hasn't finished because, as far as I know, it's not meant to have an end.
0
Not really.
Some people like to roleplay casually, others like to do it more seriously. It's silly to put everyone into the same section. It creates disorganization, for one. There's nothing wrong with separating them into sub-sections. Certain sites do it, and it works great. No one cries elitism because, well.. it isn't.
And comparing it to racial segregation is ridiculous. All the reasons why that comparison is laughable and maybe even offensive aside, no one would be preventing casual players from making the jump into serious writing.
0
That being said, I don't think it'd do well even then. The moderators didn't like it being a rule. If I remember correctly, they were mad that Neilsaur was making it seem like it was an official rule, when it wasn't. They were afraid it would scare people away (which is funny given they've done that on their own now).
Would the RP section have been better with the rule in place? Probably. Would it ever have a chance at being in place? No.
The RP section prospered the most during its Fan Art phase, when AYF (who I think then became a mod and stopped RPing, at least here, forever) was the guy everyone looked up to for his really long-lived RP (that also happened to be my first ever). Neilsaur showed up later, and was a part of that RP for a short while. Then I think AYF left and Neilsaur, Stingray and I became the main guys. Then I think Absolution (or whatever his name was, I forget) showed up. The RP section did fine during that time, and the moderators never bothered us.
It wasn't until people started getting butthurt over constructive criticism (and Neilsaur's "rule") that the moderators started to get involved. And then people slowly left. I was one of the few people to stay after that (Chatix being one of the others I remember, and I think Masked Krusader). But from there, with a new section and (eventually) stricter rules, everything went downhill.
2
If by optimistic you mean in regards to the RP section back then, sure. But I think that, regardless of how you feel about me and the Precipice crew, we can all agree the moderators are anything but optimistic. We're talking about people who warn you (and suspend you, even), for typing out the vulgar version of 'urinate' (a four letter word). I never denied what I did as a moderator. Even when I was de-modded and confronted about it, I admitted it rather flatly: I protected people. And not just the Precipice guys.
I can honestly say that most of the people in this thread could have been warned, or even suspended at some point, had I enforced some of the ridiculous rules on this site. Instead I'd turn a blind eye regardless of who you were. Or even go beyond that.
I wish I could say this (and more) without having my message taken down under some bogus claim of thread derailment too. I do hope the moderators can take a bit of criticism, especially in regards to how it may be best to moderate the RP section (funny coming from me, I know, someone fired), but seeing how they've handled some of the criticism lately, probably not. Still, dumb rules aside, I think the RP section (and probably every section, for that matter) needs some breathing space.
You (administration) may not realize it. Hell, I know you don't. But you're squeezing the life out of this place. It's hard to have fun when you're over people's shoulders. It's hard to write when you can't even say 'urinate' the wrong way. Hell, you can't even go a bit off-topic here or in OOC threads. Do it and you risk the entire thread getting taken down. And if someone hates you enough to report your OOC thread, I can guarantee you the mods will find enough off-topic talk in it to lock it.
Same with cursing. You can make the most reasonable argument in defense of why you bypassed the filter to curse. A good one would be because, gee, I don't know, WE'RE WRITING. Any good writer knows the importance of laying out a world in a way that is believable. When exploring war, it's important to go into the details no matter how messed up. When writing about an addict, it's important to capture how he feels, what he does, no matter how troubling. And when you're writing about a dude who curses a lot (or has a good reason to), it's really nice when you can do it without turning your post into an asterisk rave, or worrying that some moderator will see that you bypassed the filter and delete all your hard work.
I'd have lost count if I counted all the times I could have removed or altered someone's post because they cursed in it. But I never did it because, as a writer, I know how much hard work goes into it sometimes. And I know that sometimes cursing is necessary in writing.
I could go on for a while on why this site has gone downhill. But it wouldn't matter, and that's what really sucks.
I was here from the start, back when we RP'd in Fan Art. Back before even Neilsaur. And it was great. Everyone had fun, the moderators were more laid back, and no one ever got into trouble. I wish things could go back to that, even if I never join an RP here again. I'd just like to see it happen, because I do remember RPing here, back then, was awesome. And it'd be nice to see it again.
Then it went downhill. I couldn't even pinpoint the exact moment, honestly. But it had something to do with us finally getting our own section (which, by the way, I helped bring about *insertbragginghere*), and someone complaining about certain people being too hard on them (which was half-BS). And after that, the mods got involved. And that lead to the 'Do Not Disrupt RPs' thread.
Were people too hard on some players back then? Yeah. I even say it in the Do Not Disrupt RPs thread, if you care to look far enough in it. Was it as bad as they claimed? Not really. Half the time it was someone taking constructive criticism the wrong way, and then getting the moderators involved.
Eventually, all the people that helped keep the section running nicely (Absolution(sp?), Neilsaur, Stingray, AYF, ect) left. Only me and a handful of others stayed. And then you more or less know the rest. The section just started to go down from there, and the stricter rules, in my opinion, are partly to blame.
I admit a dedicated section may have been a mistake, looking back. And I could start blaming new players and whatnot too, and honestly, there'd be some truth in it (Dedicated section separate from Fan Art meant inexperienced people flooded in, quality went down, butthurt over constructive criticism went up, ect). But I won't even go there.
Point is, I sincerely believe heavy moderation won't help this section in the least. Best case scenario: moderators realize that and ease up. Worst case scenario: the section continues to spiral down like the fiery wreck it's become.
All the drama aside, I do hope it recovers. But I have my doubts.
0
And hey, unbanned.
0
This made me chuckle.
0
1
#PreciprickandProud