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Jul 2, 2009I've got to say, I've read your posts in both topics, and they gave me a hearty chuckle. Thanks for that at least.Posted in: Discussion
Shall we address these issues one by one?
Quote from Wolfram »I see a lot of arguments here against spawn prisons, but not a lot of strong cases. Let's address them one by one, shall we?
If you don't want your stuff destroyed while you're away, shut your server down.
How is this different from spawn prisons? It prevents players from building on your server, albeit without even the chance of admittance by server op. Further, and I speak only for myself here, there are players who depend on my server being up, and I consider them before myself or my creations; therefore, having my server down completely isn't my favorite option.
Nonsense. First of all, the difference is that your server shows up on the playerlist. If you don't have an op on at all times, players will join and have to waste time leaving because of the spawn prison. Not a problem? Imagine if 50% of the servers did this. You would waste half your time joining servers with spawn prisons. Pure nonsense. Imagine if 75% had it. 100%? If an op wasn't on, it's no game for you.
Nobody relies on your server being up. Reliance upon an in-game service is ridiculous. I think you may find this difficult to believe, but the world does not end with your server.
If you care so much about your work, play single player/private servers.
Why should players who prefer that their work be safer be denied the multiplayer experience? These are also players who are more willing to wait to be admitted rather than have no countermeasures in place at all. Telling people who prefer spawn prisons to essentially "gtfo and play alone" isn't an acceptable argument. We could just say "gtfo and play somewhere else" when you came to our protected servers. In fact, I do - but it's been pointed out that if you own a server, what you say goes. When someone who does NOT own the server tries it, it's really just whining.
This is the biggest piece of ******** that I have heard in my time reading these forums (excuse my language mods). Griefers are part of the multiplayer experience. The same way cheaters are in Quake, the same way spawnraping is, the same way TKers are, the same way spammers are. They're part of the ecosystem, and this is the multiplayer experience. Wasting legitimate players' time with this ******** is ridiculous, and I hope I'll have time this summer to write a server browser that automatically filters out servers with spawn prisons to avoid this nonsense.
Which brings me to another point. Do you all not advocate that the server owner makes the rules? The rules could be anything from grief freely to only build certain blocks to don't curse to spawn prisons. If you don't like it, you play elsewhere. That's about as free as it gets.
I'll copy-paste something I typed in IRC here.
... it gets annoying when I have to waste time joining 3 servers before I can find a legit one
also, I have to run a custom script to clear my /tmp folder and restart firefox-bin before joining any servers
so that makes it a triple waste of time
if I don't run the script, my FPS is cut in half
So basically it goes join, wait, prison, script for 30 seconds, load minecraft.net, join, wait, prison
It's maddening to be frank
The time wasted in these sorts of scenarios is annoying to a lot of people.
Griefing is impossible to stop. Cease talking about it.
Why on earth would we want to do that? Rather than being negative and counter-productive, everyone should be lending their opinions to new ideas. This shouldn't be a matter of taking sides - those that tolerate griefing and those that want to get rid of it - it should be about the community putting their heads together and coming up with better and better ways to reduce the effects. Aren't we all on the same side, here?
It's there. Get used to it. Oh, your structures got destroyed? Oh no! Take screenshots. Move on. Giving them time of day is what they want you to do, and if you don't see that you are truly blind.
It's just a game, don't take it so seriously.
It IS a game, and we DO enjoy it, but if you're telling me that spending time on a game is any different than spending it anywhere else, you're just wrong. Time spent is just that - spent. You don't get it back. If we choose to spend it here, especially on big projects that we inevitably become proud of, it's just not unreasonable to want to protect it. Worse, when you're still trying to realize your vision and you can't get any work done because people destroy your progress behind you, it becomes very frustrating.
Time is time, please don't waste mine.
I want to build, not join more servers because of spawn prisons.
Unreasonable to expect it to be there? No. Not unreasonable at all if you're in single player.
The problem with the 100% freedom policy is that people are as free to destroy as they are to create. If you were presented with some land and one hundred people to live on it, but there were surely some sexual offenders / thieves / murderers in there, wouldn't you want to screen them before letting them in?
Apples. Oranges. You get stolen from (money), murdered, raped in MineCraft? I don't think so. Move on.
In fact, I think rather than totally advocating having spawn prisons (or any anti-grief measure) or totally advocating not having them, I think I'd rather advocate the freedom of choice in the matter. Players should have the option.
Part of having an opinion is being well informed. At least label your server if it has a prison, so players know. If they're so great, it can only attract more people. Labelling is what I'm really fighting for.
In any case, what I'm really sick of is how negative everyone is about this. Stop denouncing members of the opposite camp and just agree to disagree if you can't accept different opinions. Making attacks like this is going to provoke defense every time, and we don't need to spend all of our time at each other's throats.
Are you serious? Read your post one more time please.
Edit - Quatroking ++
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