Minecraft Forums

Neither. I don't like the Aether mod because it should be adding building options and providing new and interesting building mechanics that mesh well with what came before. Similarly, I don't care for the "everything you had before is almost useless now" philosophy which pervades the mod.

Edit: I realized I didn't talk about the End. Well, it's horrible on so many levels that I really don't even see why it should be in the game at all.

Quote from Homem Pigman

To everyone who thinks it's "about time" and hating on Notch: He made this whole game exist and you should respect him. He may have got a bit lazy recently, but he's still a great designer and coder.

I disagree with him being a great designer. He got the basic idea for Minecraft from Infiniminer. The game essentially is still in an alpha state despite what they like to pretend. It doesn't have a lot of features a full-fledged game needs. It's a great concept (which again, he didn't come up with), and there's a starting idea for a great game, but it hasn't gone much of anywhere in the last year in terms of having features come together into a really great GAME. People aren't using it to GAME, they are using it to design structures and the like -- well, it's more of a game if you get a ton of mods, but that's not really Notch's doing now is it? Note that the Yogscast and others use it more like a toolbox and simplified 3D model maker than as a game. As a game it is boring and uninteresting and doesn't offer a challenge, reward skill, or anything else. The updates haven't done anything to change that, despite Notch's goal of wanting it to be an adventure game (a goal at which it absolutely fails to be good).

Lots of games start with good ideas, where the creator came up with them or not. A great idea to start with doesn't mean that you'll end up with a good game and the overall development of Minecraft has been sadly lacking.

I don't particularly see why I should have some great amount of respect for him.

Quote from manu3733

Well, Notch is still second in-charge so he can still continue to work with Jeb.

I'm not very impressed with how Notch has handled things over the last year, to put it mildly.

Quote from VileAssassin

Here's a tip for being a good game developer

Listen to the community []

If he does it, then he's a good developer. The fact is Notch hasn't listened to the community since 1.4. He should immediately be disqualified, because he's a horrible developer. He once knew what he was doing, but then he just stopped trying and started changing things without consulting the community.

I must respectfully disagree. Communities tend to be rabid packs of wolves. They aren't good at proposing good game design at all. They can be quite good at finding bugs and problems, horribly at coming up with good solutions to those problems. Sometimes they have good ideas for features and a lot of times they don't.

Listening to the community to an extent is advisable, but only regarding certain things. As far as getting game design ideas go, looking at popular mods is probably better than directly listening to what community members say (of course, putting multiple mods together into the official product can be tricky with regards to balance).

Quote from Me2005

I disagree- their design is good enough; the follow through/programming capability is terrible. Combat (for example) wasn't meant to be stellar, it's a sandbox game about mining/building. The problem is that combat often glitches, so when you should have hit you missed; or mobs moving through objects; or hits passing through solid objects. Poor path-finding, weird loading effects, MP's neglect, glitchy everything; That's programming deficiency right there.

I'd agree that BTW is both better designed and better programmed, however.

Actually, Notch intended this as sort of an action/adventure game. So the combat was presumably supposed to have been pretty good/tight, which it isn't.

Quote from VileAssassin

And because they didn't choose to improve their core elements to the game, it got replaced by Galaga, a much better iteration of the core theme.

So if Minecraft doesn't improve upon its game, it will be replaced by something that is willing to do it better. It's called if Mojang stalls its development, they will be bought out by a major publisher. That may actually be a good thing actually.

Or another indie group. Can't be that hard for say a team of 2-4 people to get out something that's largely been developed by one person at a time. I'd think 4 people could develop and exceed minecraft with a year of work easy.

Quote from Classicvibe

You're complaining about a 26 dollar price tag? GO look at the name brands, such as titles from Blizzard. 60 dollars.
And please, don't state your opinions as fact, it makes you look like a complete dbag.

You're comparing the game to brand new AAA titles? That won't turn out well...

Frankly, compared to other indie titles, it is ridiculously expensive. Most aren't 20 bucks, from what I've seen, you can get a lot of indie stuff for 10 bucks or 15 bucks. I have to agree with the previous poster who said he doesn't recommend it to friends. A year ago I could tell friends to buy it, because it had a lot of promise and supposedly Notch was going to hire people (e.g. more than one) to work on the game. It also had a reasonable price tag. Then we had a "beta" of little development and now a "release" that's a joke. I can't recommend the game after two price hikes, barely any development after a year, and a lot of poorly implemented features. What I can do is recommend that they buy 3-4 more developed games for the same amount of money. Whether indie titles that are pretty new or older AAA games.

I don't expect this opinion to be that popular here, but...

Terraria is 5 bucks on Steam if you get it now. It's well-worth it and definitely a MUCH better value than Minecraft. Terraria has a lot of elements all working together while still allowing creativity in building. It has difficulty levels, multiple people working on it full-time, multiple kinds of weapon and defenses as well as magic, content patches that add TONS of content (1.1 which is due out December 1st is adding over 200 items, a new difficulty level you can activate on a world, and lots of new monsters). In comparison Minecraft doesn't has been slow with updates, they tend to be a bit unfocused, there's no weapon or armor variety so combat is stale, few enemies, and no reason to go and explore the world (in Terraria exploration is rewarded). Terraria is definitely a much more fun GAME than Minecraft is, which has not really improved all that much in its game qualities in the last year and yet the price was just increased.

Terraria is also easier to play with your friends and you can get 4 copies for 15 bucks if you buy it now.

If you are only interested in creating 3D structures, then Minecraft is certainly better. If you are looking for a game and not tools for an art project,* then Terraria is easily superior.

If you wait Terraria will be 10 bucks. Still a much better value. Now is definitely the time to get it though. The sale doesn't even last 20 more hours though.

*Or possibly a RPG game with multiple DMs, lots of work, and certain strict limitations as demonstrated by the Yogscast.

Quote from sunperp

He didn't increase the cost of the game -- he eliminated the discount he was giving to people who pre-ordered the game.

LOL. I can't believe anyone can say that with a straight face.

I wish it WAS more like Terraria. There'd be an actual reason to go out and explore, defenses at home can matter (granted Terraria could stand to improve here), combat would have more depth. and there'd be a ton more aesthetic options.

Quote from mista_madness

im doing a degree of psychology, its general knowledge for me and a lot of people know wbout freud hes mentioned in zero punctuation qI stuff like that, manily cus hes a nutter but also invented freudian slips mapped part of the brain dream analysis and the subconsiouse, preconsiouce etc

No offense, but you need to do some more studying. Freud is NOT taken seriously by modern psychology, and for good reason. He didn't do good science and almost everything he said about people is wrong. There's some random stuff he was correct about, but he was almost always right for the wrong reasons the few times he managed to stumble on to the truth.

Dream analysis is a joke. He didn't map the brain at all. His overall theories on the mind in general (like the id, ego, and superego) are pure bunk.

You need look no farther than Freudian Slips to see how poor his ideas were. Do people sometimes say something true that they didn't mean to say? Sure, but that doesn't mean that if someone says something by accident, then it represents something they secretly believe.

Just what kind of psych courses are you taking where they don't go over how much of a hack Freud was?

Im hateing on Notch because the second he leaves Jeb starts working on the mod API that was promised a long time ago and should have been done a long time ago.

I'm glad he left

Hopefully with Jeb leading this we can finally see some features getting finished (NPC villages, anyone?) without more unfinished features being added every patch.

Quote from Me2005

I disagree- their design is good enough; the follow through/programming capability is terrible. Combat (for example) wasn't meant to be stellar, it's a sandbox game about mining/building. The problem is that combat often glitches, so when you should have hit you missed; or mobs moving through objects; or hits passing through solid objects. Poor path-finding, weird loading effects, MP's neglect, glitchy everything; That's programming deficiency right there.

I'd agree that BTW is both better designed and better programmed, however.

But thats exactly what I meant.
The combat is bad, I can live with that. But they keep tacking features on the bad combat, which makes it a real mess. The poor design choice here is that they decided to add things for combat, but not make the combat itself better. (hence cheap crackers with trufflesauce)
I do know what you mean though, the reason the combat is bad in the first place is because its poorly programmed, too.

Quote from VileAssassin

Here's a tip for being a good game developer

Listen to the community []

If he does it, then he's a good developer. The fact is Notch hasn't listened to the community since 1.4. He should immediately be disqualified, because he's a horrible developer. He once knew what he was doing, but then he just stopped trying and started changing things without consulting the community.

Not entirely true.

Listening to the communitys feedback is great. I dont deny that.

But a professional game designer knows what hes doing, better than some people who just want tacked on features on an unstable game.

Quote from PleXCore

I have been playing this game since Alpha and pure and simple this is not a full release game.

Either Notch is a con Artist or is incompetent. He ran his mouth of saying that the game will have many many features that are now missing, incomplete or buggy. Because of this a lot of people bought into the game and did the free advertising.

I hear the argument that it’s a 2 man show. (in my opinion it is more like 1.5 at best where Jens is doing 1.3 of the work.) Why is it only a 2 man show? They have more staff members working on their next game. Why? This is a terrible business model.

The game has sold over 4 million copies. How much more obvious can you get on which game they should be putting resources into? Should be something like a 70% to 30% where 70% is resources’ working on Minecraft getting it ready for the REAL full release and 30% on new games\research. Before Minecon it seemed like it was bearly scraping a 10% to 90% ratio.

Bottom line is I am not buying any more products from Mojang period.

Like an early post Minecraft is like a car. It sort of works meaning it turns on, you can drive it and you can navigate your own backyard. But as soon as you want to take it out and drive it with other people you have to take it down to the repair shop to get it into some resemblance of working order.

Many people who purchased Minecraft in Alpha\Beta had high hopes for the game but Majonag has fallen woefully short of any mark. It has been the modding community that has kept the spark of Minecraft alive.

I totally agree, Minecraft is the only one of their games I've actually heard of and it makes tons of money, why do they bother making other games period?

I have been playing this game since Alpha and pure and simple this is not a full release game.

Either Notch is a con Artist or is incompetent. He ran his mouth of saying that the game will have many many features that are now missing, incomplete or buggy. Because of this a lot of people bought into the game and did the free advertising.

I hear the argument that it’s a 2 man show. (in my opinion it is more like 1.5 at best where Jens is doing 1.3 of the work.) Why is it only a 2 man show? They have more staff members working on their next game. Why? This is a terrible business model.

The game has sold over 4 million copies. How much more obvious can you get on which game they should be putting resources into? Should be something like a 70% to 30% where 70% is resources’ working on Minecraft getting it ready for the REAL full release and 30% on new games\research. Before Minecon it seemed like it was bearly scraping a 10% to 90% ratio.

Bottom line is I am not buying any more products from Mojang period.

Like an early post Minecraft is like a car. It sort of works meaning it turns on, you can drive it and you can navigate your own backyard. But as soon as you want to take it out and drive it with other people you have to take it down to the repair shop to get it into some resemblance of working order.

Many people who purchased Minecraft in Alpha\Beta had high hopes for the game but Mojang has fallen woefully short of any mark. It has been the modding community that has kept the spark of Minecraft alive.

If you were to read a single long, well thought-out post in this thread, I recommend you read the one I am about to type. There will be no tl;dr, so either read it or not. Don't read specific parts and treat them as if it's all I said. I may say things that are flawed, but if I do, read the whole post and THEN point them out so I may correct myself. Let's begin our adventure in deconstruction.

First off, that video review was a satire. It means it was supposed to be a humorous bash on the game while pointing out serious issues. You are all taking the wrong parts too seriously, although the reviewer is actually serious on a lot of issues, and just uses extremeness to emphasize them.

Secondly is the validity of the statements expressed throughout the review. Almost everything the reviewer says to bash the game is absolutely true. The final release is a cluster****. Name me one other game hyped as much as Minecraft that has had such a buggy, incomplete release. It's the final version. It is no longer in alpha. It is no longer in beta. It is Minecraft 1.0, the final version of the game. The launch version. The one you've all been waiting for. And it was a huge letdown.

Being a letdown leads to my next point, which as touched upon above is the game's incompleteness. We were promised many features. They weren't added. Stop trying to deny that Notch is lazy. He might be the big man, but he's also not very good at making his own game. Every insult aimed towards him was justified in a way. If you look at it in a non-comedic light, he actually does go on vacation often. He barely does any significant work. He is lazy and should not be given as much attention as he gets. He should not be the millionaire that he is.

The direction the game is going is also something I would like to mention. It was also discussed in the video. I, too, believe that Minecraft has lost all direction and is currently on a very dark path. Notch's recent behavior has only fueled this belief even more. The game does indeed have many aspects that are boring and these aspects COULD BE IMPROVED, but they AREN'T BEING IMPROVED. What excuse do you have for this? What ****ing excuse do you have for the devs not taking advice and improving gameplay aspects? The community constantly praises the devs for listening to the community, but they rarely do anything based on popular opinion. That is complete and total garbage.

I know there's two definite ways most people will respond to this post. You will either use your mental defense mechanism and ignore all information I've presented and regard it as irrelevant, or you could also actually read it and then bash me as hard as possible with vague counterexamples. Either way it doesn't matter. I spent about fifteen minutes writing this post and it doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be convinced by me, so I'll just treat this as wasted time and sit back and watch as you morons continue to fall to stupidity and ignorance. There are ways you can improve the condition of both the game and this community, but nobody seems to care enough or realize enough to try.

Thank you for your time.

(Also I was typing this in a frenzy due to the amount of disagreement I was having, so my grammar isn't very good. Sorry for that.)

Quote from TheCakeisAlive

I made this...

then I used my plus votes for the day on the people being reasonable in this thread (sorry if I ran out before I saw yours!)

And that's how I feel about that :-3

Thanks for the + vote. It turns out I forgot to add TB's Reddit post to my evidence list: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/mkjci/hate_insults_and_threats_are_flooding_in_from/c31oib6

Reposting what I wrote on the Bukkit forums:

I figure I might as well chime in here. Let's start with what we (I?) know:

On Notch's side:

• Notch's tweets. Everyone knows this part of the story.
• A Minecon staffer's Teddit post about his and his friend's experience with Yogscast: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/mkew4/my_experience_with_the_yogscast_team_at_minecon/
• The staffer's friend's response to the above post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/c...nce_with_the_yogscast_team_at_minecon/c31mw8l
• Anything else?

On Yogscast's side:

• Lewis is going to be making a statement on the matter soon. Presumably it'll belong here.
• Hannah posted a response on the Yogscast forums basically denying what Notch was saying and implied that Mojang was difficult to work with. Most of the post was later removed.
• TotalBiscuit and others who know Yogscast don't believe the accusations because they don't fit Yogscast's character: http://twitter.com/#!/Totalbiscuit/status/138726490727649280
• Dickie Adams, the Minecon staffer from the Yogscon sign part of the above Reddit post and wrangler for Yogscast during the con noted he was responsible for the other staffer's friend's issue and apologized in response to the Reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/c...nce_with_the_yogscast_team_at_minecon/c31odgc
• Dickie Adams also explained Yogscast's behavior during the whole con in the same comment. He denies prior knowledge of Yogscast, and maintains that he is unbiased in this Twitter post: http://twitter.com/#!/dickieadams/status/138735562432585728
• Yogscast retweets a few people's comments about how Yogscast was friendly and polite during the whole con. It's still visible near the top here: http://twitter.com/#!/YOGSCAST
• Anything else?

To me, it's looking like Notch's accusations are false. There's nothing indicating that it's a troll or that he doesn't believe them to be true though, which makes me believe that he heard about them secondhand. What's more troubling is that Notch made all this public, and most of it while he was tired and unable to think things through properly. Then, according to TotalBiscuit, one of Notch's "supporters" managed to find out where Yogscast was arriving in Britain and started hurling insults at the airport.

I've been looking into this a lot to find more evidence for each side, but if anyone has anything I missed, let me know so I can add it to the above.