Minecraft Forums

Quote from RovincE

Been in this server for a month and it has a great community and staff! I recommend everyone to join

Thanks rovince, we're glad you like it!

Quote from mfswwp2007

Great server!

Thanks!

Bump for saturday players!

Quote from Old_Prodigy

Hey everyone,

Don't forget that if you need some help, you can always go to the Iron Spire Forum for some quick tips. You can navigate to the forum by going to ironspire.net, then clicking the forum tab.

Yes, the forums on our website allow you to see all that we provide regarding arenas, clan wars, and more!

Good luck on your clans guys, Clan Wars will be happening on February second on a Saturday!

Quote from metsgiants123

Join the server it's awesome! They even have NPC's to battle!

http://ironspire.net/ (The Forums)

Thanks for the support! We're glad you like it.

Quote from Old_Prodigy

We are currently working on a lot of new server events, come join and check them out.

Speaking of this, we will have clan wars up soon!

Thanks for the feedback, also we have a new arena set up for MobArena!

Thanks guys! Glad you enjoy it! There will be more and more being added so keep an eye out.

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Hi world! Come play on the server

Great server! freaking great community also

Wow...this server is pretty cool, been playing on it for a bit now and I really enjoy it. Nice job with adding a new style to PvP!

Trust me I will! This place is awesome

I love this server! Everyone is so great!

Come join! I'd love to see some more PvP action!

Ah how I love Richard Dawkins.

The main problem with Creationism and it's re-packaged brother Intelligent Design is that it specifies an answer before the question. By asserting that 'God did it' (or whatever force) leads to dead ends. The problem here is that you can not investigate such forces, and they only lead to more questions about the creator force itself. Where did it come from and how does it work for example.

This is why the Fact of Evolution is here (I stopped calling it a theory long ago when I realized that people take the word theory out of it's scientific colloquial meaning). The Fact of Evolution shows a very clear line of ancestral lineage among species. Period. There is more than enough evidence to support it. And even if Evolution was to be proved wrong tomorrow, we'd be left with the same problem and a new line of thinking would pop up that would resemble evolution in almost every way anyway. Positing a divine force to it would still NOT be the end result, because you cannot back up such claims with evidence. As such, pointing out that 'God did it' leads us no where.

What people need to do is if they want to debate the fact of evolution is first understand how it works in the first place. Once you realize that organisms change over time in small ways, leading to overall larger changes through long periods of time you only start to get the surface space of the fact of evolution. Then you must start to look into how mutations occur, and realize that all baseline mutations that do occur are neutral, and the environment decides whether or not the mutation is beneficial. Once a base line mutation begins occurring, the ones with a stronger adaptation to the base line mutation will find it easier to survive in the given environment that the mutation works best in - however, outside that environment the mutation can be a detriment.

For example, wolves did not suddenly and in a single generation, evolve fins because they needed to access food in the water rather that wolf ancestors with basic neutral morphic(physical form changes) mutations found it easier to get food from the water than on land due to the nature of those mutations. These wolf-ancestors tended spend more time near the water. They probably bounced back and forth between water hunting and land hunting. The ones with certain traits would eventually find it easier for them to get food from the water. The ones that continued to mutate along that base line continued to have better aquatic adaptions. Those with flatter feet or more streamlined forms were able to get to food or reproduce better than those without. Eventually over millions of years not only could sea wolves and land wolves not reproduce with each other but barely even looked like one another and thus became different species along the same ancestry. A sea wolf could probably go on land, but wouldn't survive there. A land wolf can go in water, but likewise could not survive for long there. Over the course of time, these wolf ancestors would eventually become seals, whales, and the like. While the other wolf ancestors would split off, get longer legs more suited for hunting on land.

Also remember that there are plenty of mutations that do not find a proper environment to be beneficial in. Usually these mutations get weeded out because they are harmful to the survival of the creature in its given environment.

And still...that is just the surface of evolution.

Notice that this does not touch on the genesis of life itself, just how creatures change over time.

I have heard people claim that dogs can only be dogs, etc. And this is true to a certain extent. For instance, a bird is a bird, but it is also a dinosaur, or the closest relative to what remained of dinosaurs in lineage. You cannot grow out of your genetic lineage, you are still what you are, which is why we are humans, but we are also > hominids > apes > monkeys, and so on. A gorilla or chimpanzee will never become a human as they were broken from that line a long time ago. Nor will a human devolve into a monkey of any sort. Lineages only move forward working on the genetics of all the given ancestors, adding to the complexity of the organism. While certain less complex organisms my de-evolve, they are still headed in a straight line to a new classification anyway. Such as walking sticks who are suddenly finding themselves with their wings again which they haven't had since they were in the mantid lineage, which came from the roach or earwig line.

If you think that dogs will never be more than dogs, but you also except that genetic changes occur anyway as most creationists do. Ask yourself...what are the limitations of those changes? Certainly what comes next for dogs, still makes them dogs, but eventually they will look nothing like they do now. And dogs have a very rapid morphic gene change rate.

I would suggest looking up AronRa on Youtube who gives a much better and clearer presentation of this.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa

I do end this with: If you are going to place God in the gaps of human understanding of the universe, not only have you declared that you've given up understanding how things work and are of no use to the advancement of human knowledge, but you also make God weaker with every succession of actual discoveries. You can posit God (or your creator of choice) wherever you wish, but don't be angry when that is weighed and measured and found to be untrue.