• 2

    posted a message on Minecraft Beta Customized Terrain Generator Preset "Neo-Beta" (Glacier seed comparison pictures inside.)

    Bumping this because this really needs more recognition. We really need to find a way to get more oceanic parts without screwing up the beaches (e.g. raising the sea level). Very good find.

    Posted in: Customised Worlds
  • 4

    posted a message on The new terrain generator is better than alpha
    The first picture is pretty cool. However you are unclear whether the landform is touching an extreme hills biome. The other pictures truly are what I've seen since 1.8 (excluding the jungles of course). Sorry for the hostility, but that's the extreme ­ing hills biome! They're supposed to make "epic natural landforms." The problem is that they are terribly bland and repetitive. All mountains are spammed together and the biome is just poorly designed, just like all of the other ones, excluding jungles and forests. Sure, alpha didn't have much in it, but it had WAY more variation than the current generator. Now I might be a nostalgic ­, but it is a fact that the terrain is less exciting than it used to be. I don't want to go back to the 1.7 generator or any other generator, but Mojang really screwed up since 1.8, and this doesn't make up for it.

    What they need to do is to return FULL RANDOM HEIGHT VARIATION to most if not all biomes, and keep it controlled in the obvious biomes such as plains - where flatter land will be much more consecutive.

    Quote from GorgeousTaylor

    He already "brought beaches back" once. Don't get your hopes up for another round.


    No he didn't. The only true beaches you'll find are on the coasts of jungle biomes. Every other beach is just too small and too sloppily placed, being that only one or 2 consecutive blocks of sand are next to the water, not reaching towards land any further. Plus, where the ­ are my gravel beaches?!
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from Bgbba

    And with the latest snapshot, we see that not only has Mojang not changed course, they now are adding more useless ­. A new type of zombie? A new block? And what would an update be without more ­ for the villagers. Mojang can bite my ass. They're STILL catering to the RPG interests. We spent over a year on the NPC villages, and what do we get? More crap. "Command block?" Last time I checked, this was MINEcraft, not ADVENTUREcraft. Come on Jeb. You deserve to be fired. Notch did the same thing, and you managed to go the same way in a smaller amount of time. If you ever make Minecraft a game that must be paid for monthly, I CERTAINLY won't pay. Make all these "NPC vilagez r cuuuul guise" types pay, because I'm sure not. I've been playing 1.4 beta, the version in which I joined, and let me tell you, it's all I need. I don't need all these new things. They're cool and they add more depth to the game, but I don't want to see this game go down the ­ter.


    You've got a point, but I don't think you should be so hostile. Mojang always had some mess to clean up, and I agree that they never had a clean slate to work on. There was always a pile and they kept adding on to it. Sometimes they removed some stuff, but the slate was never clean. They promised us Adventure Mode a while ago, so they need to work on that. They always needed to finish off the villages. They always needed to finish the EXP problem. They always needed to finish Mod API. They always needed to finish this, and that, and this, and that.

    The main problem Mojang has is their consistency to start something new while they're in the middle of working on something else. And whatever they were working on before is going to be mediocre because they lost their creativity or interest in it. The terrain is a great ­ing example! I remember people wanting terrain changes in 1.7.3. Sure, it looks godly in comparison to the Lands of Dookie we have now, but it had its problems. So they had to work on that but behold the VILLAGES. The poor villages couldn't spawn on our near-perfect generator, so they decided to "simplify" it so they could work on the villages!

    Nobody needs to be fired. Jeb is a great innovator like Notch was. I just hate their motive to keep adding onto the pile. It's big enough already.

    Quote from mayaknife

    I like awesome vistas as much as the next guy, but if it's all awesome then it loses its impact. I want to be *surprised* by an epic landscape unfolding in front of me, not just moving from one epic scene to the next. It would be nice to be able to identify unique landmarks, such as "the sky island with the awesome waterfall, next to the village" rather than "one of several sky islands with awesome waterfalls next to villages".

    If it's all epic then there's no reason for me to travel more than 10 chunks before I've pretty much seen it all.

    I want there to be more reasons to explore the world, so what I would like to see is less random variation and more reasoned variation. For example, smaller but more frequent cave systems in extreme hills, larger but rarer cave systems under plains.

    However, most of that has to do less with the terrain itself than what the terrain hosts. For example, make sheep common in plains and hills but rare everywhere else. Cows and chickens should only be common in forests and plains. Pigs should only be common in forest. Etc. If you want a fully stocked farm you're going to have to explore a bit.

    Same thing with ores. Right now I can dig down anywhere and find all the ores in the same relative abundances, meaning that there's never any need to explore for better places to mine. How much cooler would it be if there were coal-rich, iron-poor areas, forcing you to go searching for iron? Ditto, gold, diamond, redstone, etc. Even cooler would be if the abundance were somehow tied to the type of terrain, rather than being random, but I'd take random over the current homogeneity.

    Right now I can pretty much hunker down at my spawn point and find everything I need nearby. There's no reason to travel until I go looking for a stronghold. I'd like there to be more pressure on me to explore in order to find the things I need to survive and thrive. Making epic terrain less common would help, but as noted above there's more to it than that.


    Random variation doesn't mean everything is going to be "epic." As said before, variation simply means dissimilarity, uniqueness, or difference. This is what we had in 1.7.3 and below. Sure, some people say large height changes or mountains were too common, but I really didn't care. Every place looked different. I've just created a world using 1.7.3 terrain and I've been exploring for reed (which took a ­ing hour to find a single piece) and I haven't seen any mountains to my interest. The cool thing is that I know these mountains of interest exist and that's why exploration hit its peak in 1.7.3. If you wanted to find something in particular, you could either do 2 things:

    1) Go through multiple seeds to find the landscape to your liking "the short way"
    2) Explore a single world

    Overall, the terrain seemed really balanced out in 1.7.3. Cave systems were rarer than we have today (but also common) plus they were more unique. There was a good balance between flat land and rough Y-coordinate changes. I really cannot find the "there wasn't enough flat land in pre-1.8" argument plausible because there's AMPLE flat land. Ores were also spread out randomly, so that one certain biome wasn't "superior" to another, rather random areas of which you don't know are superior to others. That's one main reason I'd like to see the Extreme hills biome go bye-bye. Emeralds should be spread out universally in my opinion.

    To be honest... and I thought about it for a minute... I can't say I agree with your animal placement idea. I'll tell you why.

    When I went searching for that piece of reed, not only was it annoying, but it was also time consuming. Well boo-hoo, I can cry all I want. The good thing was that it made me EXPLORE, not knowing where a hint of reed was. It made me see even more unique landscapes as I traveled the shorelines, from island to island, from continent to continent. That's why I liked the randomness factor that Minecraft had, and that's why I now use a mod to bring it back, because without it, the game feels boring and predictable.

    So if I want to find a sheep to shear, it may be a couple blocks near me, or it could be a kilometer away from me. I don't know where I'll find it, or how long it will take me, but it will add on to the adventure.

    The ore idea was something I was actually pushing for before 1.8, but I think ores should be just as random as they were in 1.7.3. That goes for caves as well. I don't want any forced predictiveness. Rather, I think the world should decide where it wants to place that next diamond pocket, the same way it does for placing sheep.

    (Yes I still say Reed. Sugar Cane takes too long to say or type)
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on The Recent Focus on Exploration-Good or Bad?
    I can't really vote. Here's why:

    Exploration is different for everybody, because some people like exploring for structures and strongholds and whatnot. For the most part, this group of people is satisfied.

    Then there's a group of people who like exploring for unique landforms, gravel beaches, nice sand beaches, floating islands, caves (because caves are always easy to find now), etc. The last time this group was satisfied, for the most part, was in beta-1.7.3, but even that generator wasn't perfect.

    ^edited due to confusing sentence structure.


    The poll is asking a very broad question, so I cannot answer.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 970

    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    *NEWS*
    Update 6/5/13

    Word has come out that 1.7 may include biome changes. Stay tuned.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Adventure Update was supposed to give us more motivation to explore, but instead the motivation was taken away. Here's why:

    Many of the features included in the 1.7.3 generator that brought the game to life were unexpectedly removed when 1.8 hit our clients. Due to this, monstrous amounts of variety are now non-existent in Minecraft. Most of the problems with the generator today are due to limitation. With that being said, every seed is now basically identical, meaning there is WAY too much predictiveness in the terrain:


    LIMITED HEIGHT VARIATION

    For instance, we can only find mountains in the Extreme Hills (EH) biome and the X-hills biomes (ForestHills, DesertHills, etc.) In the EH biome, height changes are forced, ALWAYS leaving us with a sloppy mess of turquoise spam reaching to the heavens. In the X-hills biomes, the same thing happens, except height changes hardly ever reach "mountain level."

    So why is this bad? Although this brings us joyous mountains, they are never spread apart, or landlocked by flat land. Thus, if you find a mountain you are nearly 100% sure to find more and more. Also, when you see turquoise grass, you are 100% sure to find mountains. It's predictability at its greatest. This is bad because the pre-1.8 generator contained more height variation. You could literally find any type of landscape. Just look at the variety of landscapes you could find in pre-1.8 in comparison to current generation:


    As you see from this picture, the only way to achieve max-height terrain is to visit the EH biome. No, X-hills will not allow you to do this. What we do know is that EH biomes and X-hills together give us a somewhat decent array of variation, but 1.7.3's array was a LOT bigger. Want proof?


    In this image, not only is there an overhang and a thin rocky formation, but there is flat land isolating both of these. There is no way to represent full random height variation in one picture, but this may give you a hint as to what it may be. What else can we bring to the plate?


    Beta 1.8+ babies may not know what this is. Here is a picture of the most popular seed before the terrain was ruined. Glacier was its name. Now, this isn't the best picture of the Glacier Mountains, but I will attempt to describe it. Imagine a seasonal forest with mountains sprawling across the whole biome. This may seem like the equivalent of today's ForestHills sub-biome but it is not! An area such as the Glacier Mountains was not something you would see every five minutes. It was found by seed-hunting -- another damaged factor due to the 1.8 terrain changes. Ladies and gentlefish, this seed may just describe what height variation is all about. You see, if you exited the area of the mountains, there'd be terrain nothing like it. You would see occasional hills and land easy to build on! And guess what? This all happened within biomes of the same name. There were no limitations nor restrictions.

    Now before you start replying (and I urge you not until reading ALL of this post), let me show you what the 1.7.3 generator could do, even though people may think it wasn't possible.


    The picture above IS Beta-1.7.3 terrain, not Release-1.3.2. Yes, flat land was possible. REMEMBER, we are not asking for the previous generator! We want the current one improved so that everyone is happy!!!!



    FORCED ENDLESS CAVES

    Another flaw of the current generator is the underground generation. There are simply too many caves, and this problem is existent in every world, just like our height variation problem. Often, I find myself bored in-game, because within the first five minutes of a newly created world, I'm already set for life because I found a cave that extends on and on. Literally, we can now find stacks of iron ore and enough diamond to last us half a year within the first hour of gameplay!

    So why is this bad? It is understandable some people may like having extensive caves, as do I, but not all the time. Minecraft always needed more challenge, and this cave problem definitely worsens the issue. Back in pre-1.8, there were caves of varying sizes -- the same amount of variety that the mountains had. Now we are limited to seemingly endless tunnels and caverns. Don't you miss "conquering" a cave in less than 10 years? I know I do.

    Don't believe me? Look at this:


    You could say "that's just one area in one world." WRONG. Look at this:


    Want more?



    This is absurd. The people who enjoy extensive caves are sure happy, but the people who want caves of varying sizes should be enraged!




    SLOPPY SAND BEACHES & ABSENCE OF GRAVEL BEACHES

    Another problem with current terrain generation includes the formation of beaches and the absence of gravel beaches. Gravel beaches were an undeniably cool feature to pre-1.8 generation, and Mojang had no reason to remove them when the Adventure Update hit our clients. Remember the "404 Challenge?" Well now it's impossible to have anything merely resemble it (except for the extensive cave system, of course). Sandy beaches are now always sloppily generated, therefore lowering the rate of variety within every world.

    Why is this bad? It is obvious that the removal of gravel beaches upsets many people, as it does to me. Sandy beaches on the other hand definitely need work. Take a look at this current beach:


    ..Well that was awkward. The generator seems to just replace random coasts with sand blocks. Face it, pre-1.8 had things like this as well, maybe not as common, but definitely existent. However, pre-1.8 also had good looking beaches! This is what we call VARIETY -- when things stop reappearing over and over again.

    Ok, admitted, the picture above may be a little biased. Let's throw in a picture that an opposer gave to me:


    This is someone's example of a perfect beach. You've got to be kidding me. First off, two things need to be pointed about before getting into the specifics.

    1. This is set on the Large Biomes option. Good terrain should be available to those who play on the default setting!

    2. This "beach" is adjacent to a jungle biome. Beaches next to jungle biomes tend to look a bit nicer in comparison to those that are adjacent to other biomes. Therefore, this picture is a little biased itself.

    As said before, the main problem with today's beaches is that they are always going to have this form. Only one or two horizontal lines of sand are actually on sea-level. Again, we had crappy beaches and good beaches in 1.7.3 and this is good because of the variety it brought to the game. We all shouldn't be able to reach preffered terrain everywhere we go, right? That's the challenge and fun!

    Take a look at this picture of a pre-1.8 beach:


    Now that's what I call a good looking beach! Look how many consistent sand blocks are actually on sea-level. Compare that to the one or two lines of consistent sandy-coasts in current generation. Remember, pre-1.8 also had crappy beaches, which is a good thing because it distributed variety into every world.

    Keep in mind, this thread is NOT about the existence of oceans, the "RPG" features, the existence of the new world generation features, biome size, random placement of biomes, and possibly more. We also do not endorse the return of past generators or a new world option.
    If you want to discuss these said features, you are in the WRONG THREAD.


    WHY MODS ARE NOT THE SOLUTION:

    Quote from Shreaders »
    Mods are a temporary fix to a long-term problem. Most of the terrain altering mods out there do not even live up to the standards that are put forth in this thread. They all are attempts to bring back 1.7 map generation into the current terrain. If you're asking Isn't this what we want? No, and this means that you did not read the full thread. So please go back, re-read the thread, and then re-post.

    What we want done to the terrain is have it tweaked to add more height variety per biome. We want the structures and everything that was added since 1.8 except for the flat, dull, boring land. Mods do not fix this as they create ugly jumbled up and chewed up land masses all over the place (Which those types of land masses can also be neat if harnessed and used correctly by mojang.)
    Did not know that? Re-read the thread, and re-post.

    So for those of you who keep coming on here advertising different mods that we can use: 45 people have mentioned the same thing before you: so do not bother as it will not silence us. We feel the current map generation needs to be altered to satisfy all of Mojangs player base not just 25% (and yes those numbers are accurate .. the poll for this change is at 75% yes and 25% no) Did not know that? Simple.. Re-read the thread, and then re-post.

















    Tell Mojang about this issue!

    Dinnerbone's Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Dinnerbone
    Mojang's mailing address (MOST EFFECTIVE CONTACT METHOD):

    The Minecraft Team
    Mojang AB
    Maria Skolgata 83
    118 53, Stockholm
    Sweden

    You must include The Minecraft Team, otherwise they will not get it.


    Check out these related threads!


    Quotes From Different Players:

    Quote from Mattressi »

    I'm a little confused that this isn't a bigger complaint: I mean, swamps look ugly, sure and there are a few bugs here and there, but BIOMES ARE ABSOLUTELY RUINED. Seriously, I can't even play anymore - I'm just so bored by the landscape. I like mountains with trees (regular, pines and birch) and snow. I can have either mountains OR snow OR trees. Awesome -_-
    Seeds are completely pointless now - all they do is determine your spawn point. Might as well just use one seed and ask at the start if you want to start in the biome with trees, the biome with mountains or the other biomes with nothing in them.

    Has anyone tried tweeting jeb about this (I'm pretty sure Notch isn't working on Minecraft anymore)? To me, this is the single largest issue with Minecraft currently. Varied and crazy terrain was one of the greatest things about Minecraft pre-1.8. Now, Minecraft's terrain is more boring than in real life. Realism I could possibly stand (in a game with creepers and which originally became popular because of its crazy and interesting randomly generated terrain), but it simply isn't realistic to have no snow on any mountains, to have no trees (one tree per chunk doesn't count - I'm talking forests) anywhere where it snows, to have almost completely flat terrain everywhere except in one specific area which has huge mountains and nothing else.

    Some have said it's this way because of NPC villages - if that's the case, I'd much rather have no NPCs at all if it will bring back an interesting world.

    Please, can someone here who uses twitter contact jeb and link him to this thread or ask if he realises that Minecraft's terrain generation is horrible and boring now, and whether he intends to fix it? If Mojang think it's fine as it is and don't fix it, I honestly won't be playing anymore. Bring back variety and craziness or lose those of your customers who enjoyed (above ground) exploration, building in unique locations, searching for the best seed, admiring the views and even just doing other things in a world that didn't feel like a void.

    Quote from Strottinglemon »
    The problem I have with it is: EVERY. WORLD. LOOKS. EXACTLY. THE. SAME.

    Quote from Homem Pigman »
    Moving mountains to a single biome was simply the worst idea in all of gaming history. And even those look bland.I want the extremely random worlds that made Minecraft be awesome!

    Quote from Mamrok »
    The terrain is a lot LESS complex than it used to be. What made the old generator more complex is, that the
    physical terrain overlapped with all biomes, so that we had a lot of combinations. The biomes now are very homogenic and are seperated from each other with surgical cuts. 1000 blocks of flat forrest *poof* 1200 blocks of flat desert *poof* 1000 blocks of treeless extreme mountains *poof* 1000 blocks of flat forrest. very complex...

    Also the additon of ravines and rivers doesnt have anything to do with how the terrain and biomes are created. They are just superimposed over the landscape.

    Quote from giraffeartillery »
    This more realistic terrain generation is incredibly bland. Once you see one biome, you have basically seen them all.

    The old one was varied and the biome mixing created some nice landscapes. Also spawning on a beach made it feel like you washed up on the shores of a unknown land. I wouldn't mind some modifications to the underground how ever.

    Quote from Domino »
    The sizes are perfect, but they need more variety in each one.

    Quote from Flygonair »
    I was gonna post a hate comment, but once i looked at the screenshots i realised you were right! I haven't seen any awesome looking mountain formations since 1.0.0! All i've been seeing is the same old plains, swamps, and pine forests!

    Quote from MineCrak »
    I used to be ok with there being some caves, but now the entire damned underground is swiss-cheesed with them... Now I hate them.

    Perhaps the people who love the endless caves are playing the game in Peaceful or Creative mode. Caves are a whole different matter in Normal difficulty. They are constantly getting in the way of my mines and underground constructions.

    I would rather have fewer but more epic caves or actual caverns then an endless ant farm of caves everywhere I dig..

    Quote from xlea99 »
    I kind of used to hate people who said the terrain was boring... but it is REALLY flat. I guess I have to agree now. While I'm in love with oceans and mushroomlands and jungles, there is not as much interesting stuff in the world. I really wish that jeb would put back in what notch took out: Mountain landforms.

    By that I mean not a mountain biome, but allowing allowing mountains to spawn in any biome on their own. That was one reason that the 1.7.3 generator was so friggin amazing.

    If Jeb made it so that mountains could spawn in the same sort of way as lakes, then things would get a lot better. Then, mountains would be spawning in forests, giving us back that good-ole' tree filled mountain range we all love. It could spawn in Praries, to allow villages to be at the top of the world. It could spawn in deserts, to give us back those sand falls. They could spawn in oceans, so you could find just a random huge mountain in the ocean, kind of like a survival island. Heck, they could even spawn in swamps. Allowing for some pretty cool crap to happen.

    Also, Jeb needs to put back the gravel beaches. I loved the look of those, and they just made things look so good.

    Quote from Wiggycat314 »
    I have been a heavy Minecraft player since Alpha 1.2.0_02 when I first started playing. It wasn't the mining or the monsters that urged me to play; it was the sense of adventure. Most of the time, when I make a new world, I don't plan on building, I spend most of the time exploring the unknown and seeing what Minecraft has to throw at me.

    When the ability to use seeds came out in Beta 1.3, it was then that my sense of exploration really started to rise. So many words and letters to type, so many worlds, but so little time. I loved it, each world had it's own uniqueness to it. If you managed to find a very nice world, you knew that this world was yours and no one else had one like it (unless you shared the seed).

    When 1.8 came out, it really hit me hard. There was little to no variety in the worlds anymore. Seeds (in my opinion) were then obsolete. What's the point of sharing seeds when every world looks the same.

    Quote from Creative_Explorer »
    It is a fact that the terrain has less variety in it than before.

    Quote from Frogging101 »
    I don't know why, but there are way way way too many caves. I don't recall there being this many before 1.8. I like exploring caves, and it's cool to navigate the enormous mineshafts. But only to a certain point. After spending hours and hours in a seemingly endless cave system, it just gets boring and repetitive. The cave system that I've been in since I started this world 3 days ago is just way too big. I dug a staircase mine type thing for a bit, just to collect a few ores to get me started. Within about 5-10 minutes I found my self in a cave system. 3 days later, I'm still in the cave system. I've seen about 3 ravines, destroyed 2 cave spider spawners, gotten lost in 2 different abandoned mineshafts and maybe 20 different caverns. I have half a chest full of coal, and the other half is iron, gold and a few diamonds.IT NEVER ENDS.

    Quote from Owl Exterminator »
    I love enchanting, I love the new biomes, I love all of the new features, and there isn't one I would ever want removed from the game. I miss the old world though. The new world isn't the same, it doesn't even compare. I'm sorry to all those people I insulted back when the adventure update went live. I'm sorry because I know why you were upset.
    Quote from DrakBadgerwaffles »
    I wouldn't be against Mojang hiring a guy on full time to do nothing but work on the terrain, as long as it gets done.

    Also, is the Bukkit team actually still part of Mojang? I thought they were hired on and since then I've heard very little out of the progress they are supposed to be making.

    Here's a rundown of how I think they are splitting their efforts. I'm thinking Bukkit got there, wanted to finish working on the Mod API, opened up the core program and realize that it was just a bunch of empty classes that would require a ton more time than they figured. Then 1.4 was held back to compensate.

    Meanwhile, Jeb and Dinnerbone get to work on RPG stuff because Dinnerbone really only knows how to work with entities and Jeb is really only good at picking up the slack that Notch created when he would have his brain-farts so infrequently since the beginning of 1.8pre.

    Then Notch leaves after delivering terrain so uninspired that he forgot to add roses, snow, and mountains (Really!? How can some people think current gen is better than 1.7.3 when it didn't even launch with ROSES and SNOW!?), Jeb takes up the torch of the entire game, makes beaches and X-hills their own biomes because he has no idea what mess of cobwebs Notch put up, and here we are with vertical beaches, endless biomes of flat terrain, and mountains that are so forced that even their heights are the same...

    And some people still think 1.8 and up is better than 1.7.3? The development process alone is horrible enough to be deal-breaker.
    Quote from xBella »
    Gah. I honestly can't stand the 1.3.2 terrain generation at all anymore. If I play singleplayer, it's always with my 1.7.3 .jar because it's just an eyesore to look at the current terrain generation. The terrain of 1.7.3 makes it seem like a whole new game. Honestly, I love jungles and swamps but I would trade it and NPC villages for the 1.7.3 terrain. That doesn't mean I want Jeb to just re-add 1.7.3 terrain and dump jungles and swamps, I just want him to improve it.
    What happened to the savannahs? It bugs me so much to see a desert next to a jungle. I don't even know why they removed the temperature system. I miss the beaches and the gravel beaches that were everywhere. Beach houses were possible back then. If you wanted a proper beach house now, you'd have to have a tiny 2x2 house just to fit it in the beach. It also annoys me a lot when people tell me to use Large Biomes if I want better beaches. Why should I have to use Large Biomes to enjoy a feature that was once perfect? We don't need the 1.7.3 terrain generator back, we need the current one improved.

    Quote from shady_slim »
    Sweet gods...witches and bats over terrain? Exploring neat new places is what makes this game (for me)

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Mincraft 1.7 ("Biome change update")
    Quote from danthonywalker

    And from pictures I've seen that weren't hill biomes, the old generator did the same.


    But its totally irrelevant to that fact that biomes back then didn't have such harsh restrictions. The pre-1.8 generator had just about every kind of landscape you could want, with the exception that I think that forest biomes had most of the diversity. Flat land was available. Now, flat land is in forceful abundance because that's the way it was hard-coded.


    Can't please every player.


    New features plus a revamped terrain generator can coexist. This would not only restore a big portion of the game that has been lost, but it would also open up new and massive possibilities.

    Ultimately, this WOULD please every player. Only the terrain-nazis who cry whenever they see a floating island will get mad. And again, in the case that the terrain generator is revamped, if you see part of the terrain you don't like, just ignore it and EXPLORE for what you want. That's the challenge of survival mode.


    I hated the fact that caves were so rare back then, now, people hate the fact caves are too common. It's funny how things balance out.


    >implying caves were hard to find back then

    You obviously hadn't explored 50 blocks from your spawn point back then. Honestly, caves could have been rarer.


    No, in fact, I don't notice it in game. As with pre-1.8 and post-1.8 I don't care for terrain generation.


    Well, it only took me a week's worth of playing the game during Release-1.0 to realize that flat things are mushed together, bumpy things are mushed together, and mountainous things are mushed together. Also noticed that sand beaches were decimated, gravel beaches gone, and that cave systems were made so common that they never seem to end, sprawling off in every direction possible.


    The only care I notice is the caves as that's the only gameplay factor that terrain plays into.


    How is inspiration for building and actually finding your personally-favorite type of landscape not tied into gameplay?


    It wasn't until I saw your thread a long time ago did I even begin to think about terrain. It's such a minor part of the game.


    That's really really wrong, dude.


    Sure you need basics, like you can't just have a superflat world and no trees and expect the same gameplay,


    Fine, since caves are all that is important, let's just move the trees underground and have Minecraft be 100% underground.


    but the amount of changes from pre-1.8 to post-1.8 are so minor and few and far from between and the trade-offs they did is hardly worth noting.


    Then tell me why the terrain complaints have been going on for more than a year. There is visual and CODED proof that there was significant change. Notch himself even said that the generator was "simplified." Walking around in a Minecraft world today is like watching Fred Flinstone run, while watching the background. You know what you see in that background? The same stuff over, and over, and over again.


    They have a dedicated biome for mountain lovers, dedicated biome for flat lovers, and they even have biomes in between like that of a forest hills biome. I don't see what one could ask for.


    You're even admitting yourself that you see the same stuff over and over again. How about get rid of unessecary filler-biomes like X-hills and just remove restrictions? Seriously, how in any way could that negatively affect the game?


    I say terrain and generator are the same. The generator makes the terrain and structures. What you want is a change in the generator. you cannot just change terrain without affecting the generator and thus affecting the structures, it's just pragmatically impossible and if left alone, severe consequences of generated terrain will occur.


    Not really. It can be done. Sure it'll take a lot of patience, but seriously --- Minecraft has so many unfinished features, and Mojang hasn't even scraped the surface. I played with NBXlite, which I used to generate 1.7.3 terrain + structures and villages didn't seem to spawn any differently than they do now.


    Not saying removing the structures and changing the terrain is impossible, it surely could be done. But that's not even what we were discussing.


    No one wants to remove the structures.


    We were discussing features of the terrain. As such I count the structures as they are part of the very landscape you walk on.


    You just previously said structures are irrelevant! How many times are you going to contradict yourself?!

    Terrain is terrain. Generation would include terrain and structures. Terrain is terrain itself. Stop bringing structures into this. Even if they were relevant, they don't bring variety at all. They are little knick-knacks you can find along your way. They aren't as impacting as the terrain that they rest on.

    Stop mentioning structures. They are I.R.R.E.L.E.V.A.N.T.


    And even if we talk straight terrain, jungles and swamps were added along with other biomes that are dedicated for certain types of terrain people such as yourself.


    Jungles and swamps have just about the same level of dedication that forests and deserts do. There's no point to completely restrict their height variation. If you let Mojang restore height variation, then you will still have flat land. I repeat, you WILL have flat land.


    That's not the point. The point I was asking is the terrain now does have more to it than it did previously. Newer biomes and dedicated biomes for specific players.


    Look, you could have a million freakin biomes added with height restrictions and people would get bored within a month. If you allow unique possibilities occur within a widespread amount of biomes, then "WE WANT MOAR" will not happen because MOAR is already happening within the terrain itself.


    And you saying it's positive is also opinionated. I don't get what your argument here is.


    Because your saying that flat land is superior. Again, we can let this overhaul occur and you will still have FLAT LAND. Everyone will be happy except for the people who get OCD seizures after seeing a desert with a lake in it. But honestly, who cares about them? They are selfish people.


    How do you know this? Do you know the minds of at least 51% of the 11 million players? I would please would like to know your sources. I cannot say the same for my kind, but neither can you.


    As a person who has played since early Alpha, and after all of the servers I've been on, and after all of the threads I've been in the Screenshots forum, and after looking at threads for countless numbers of seeds pertaining to "epic landforms," I can honestly say that a lot of people in this community don't want their potential to be restricted.


    Because...why not? The terrain is smoother now, easier to build on I feel, and there's still tons of mountains around in the dedicated biomes they're set in and also inside certain biomes like Forest. I find the terrain fine as is. That's an opinion, but your opinion on how it's terrible, is also, an opinion.


    The terrain is FORCIBLY flattened. There is a dull, treeless biome for mountain-lovers, and that's all mountain-lovers are going to get. Forests are always flat. Hilly terrain is always mushed together. Deserts are always flat. Plains are always flat. Snow biomes are always flat. Jungles are always flat (if you exclude the trees), beaches are always crap now, caves now always have ONE SIZE, and some people -- no, scratch that -- a considerable amount of people are sick and tired of repetition.



    THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from Glasscreeper

    The Minecraft subreddit has always been terrible. Not all subreddits are the same (especially the small ones, those are the good ones)

    Besides, either everyone on that thread is a fanboy, or they cannot point out the plethora of other issues the game has.


    The problem with the Minecraft community (MCF included) is that many people don't realize that this game is really not optimized and has way too many unpolished, unfinished, and ultimately iffy features that need to be worked on. Instead, they ask for MOAR. Then MOAR gets implemented, and the community has fun for 1-2 weeks, and then everything gets boring again.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Mincraft 1.7 ("Biome change update")
    Quote from danthonywalker

    I'm the one speaking for the community. Aren't you just doing the same right now? You think it's easier to build on desert-mountains? There, subjective. You cannot point out my faults without doing the same faults yourself. This is what's wrong with your argument and thread as a whole. You're pointing out things that are all opinion based, as I'm doing the same right now.


    Try reading again. I never said that my optimal type of terrain was optimal to everyone else. It's just that flat land is not for everybody, including myself. However, we're limited to the majority of the world being flat. It's very one-sided if you ask me.


    Finding caves back then were rarer, but they were so much easier. Near infinite systems does not mean more diamonds, it probably means more iron or coal, more of the common, but exposed diamonds and such is still not the easiest of ores to obtain. What the current system does is allow ways of mobs to spawn in some random tunnel somewhere and eventually find a way down to your system. The amount of exposed tunnels and systems allow this to occur more often. Mobs have increased in difficulty and the fact that these near "infinite" systems are more easy to get lost in I find makes the exploration all the more difficult and interesting.


    It doesn't mean more diamonds, but the increased amount of moving space does. Caves now are swiss-cheese, and will always be like that unless Mojang changes them up. I don't mind a seemingly infinite cave every so often, but the rate at which caves appear now is just ludicrous.


    It's the same as before as well. Once you see a forest biome it'll remain one. Once you see an extreme hills biome you know it'll be the same weird shaped mountains. The predictability back then within the biomes is the exact same as it was now. I'm still not seeing the argument.


    Close, but maybe you just don't see the point. Before, forests for example were not affected by the harsh restrictions that are imposed on them today. You could find just about any type of land in a forest back then, whether it be flat or mountainous. Back then, you could have one mountain in a forest surrounded by flat land. Now, the forest biome itself is flat, meaning that if you find trees and flat land, you will most likely find more trees and flat land along your way. ForestHills was implemented, but these still don't live up to the mountains you could see in pre-1.8. Additionally, even if they did, they would be spammed up against each other, much like how the EH biome has uneven land all over the place. Look up Perlin Noise.


    Which you still cannot prove. All your thread does is take the worst of the generator and compare it to the best of the old generator. Both have their faults and high-points. Both still provide mountains that can shape to enormous abstract sculptures, both had similar plains, and snow lands.


    My thread is irrelevant to this. If you want to argue about my thread, go to my thread. I'm sure if you sift through some pages you'll see that you are wrong. And no, pre-1.8 provided more possibilities terrain-wise. Show me something living up to Glacier, gargamel, or MODDED in today's generator.


    What I find in variation difference is the amount of elevation it changes and its frequency, which, as I say before, is more of a negative than anything. It's all subjective, from both sides. What I rather see in content coming from Mojang is something that's actually content and not a terrain overall that's not needed, in my opinion.


    Why is it negative? You still haven't said why.
    Because you like to build on flat land? That's not even a reason.

    You seem to invade your preferences into your reasoning, and that's not good.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 7

    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from BodOwens

    Here's the Reddit link:

    http://www.reddit.co...d_and_revealed/


    The Reddit community seems very discombobulated. I saw a comment discussing on how EH mountains could be made higher. The main comment discusses the importance of a terrain update but only elaborates on potential new features, and not restoring variation that was present in pre-1.8.

    Reddit makes me mad.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on If Notch gave you permission to make 1.7, what would you add?
    I would add nothing. In fact, I'd probably raid Mojang's office, force all of the employees outside of the building, and lock the doors. This would give the least amount of confidence that no new content will be added for a selected amount of time. Instead, already-existent features will be polished. This includes:

    1) TERRAIN
    2) Difficulty
    3) Etc.
    Posted in: Discussion
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