I actually really like that idea with the ocean. But then again, one might ask why you'd venture all the way across an ocean when you could get a similar variety in climate by just going a bit inland or down the coast for a while.
But I will agree that bigger boats and a bigger variety in boats would be quite cool for the future.
I think that the best way to do this is have 3 basic biomes: plains, forest and desert. Within all of those would be different geographical quirks. There might be a big mountain range interrupting your forest, which results in forested hills leading up to big snow-capped stone peaks. There might be a river going through your desert which gives you a huge system of canyons and hoodoo-like things, which would be a good replacement for the awesome cliffs and eroded terrain in the current minecraft. Deserts may have small Oases with trees all around them.
I think that jungle should just be a denser forest. Regular forests should be fairly constant tree cover (much more than exists now,) while rainforest/jungle would be total forest cover maybe 2 or 3 trees thick, with some really tall trees poking out of the regular jungle cover, making a nighttime-like darkness on the forest floor. Players would probably spawn in the treetops here.
I think that for Taiga and Tundra, it'd be better to just mix this idea up with a summer/winter cycle and let those be forests and plains during the wintertime. Mountain peaks would be snowy all year round. Deserts wouldn't get snowy though, because deserts are dry by definition.
As for ocean, I'd suggest that there be a "shallow ocean" and "deep ocean." Shallow ocean would be 10 blocks at the deepest contain reefs, islands and atolls, and be mostly sand except for reefs and inland on bigger islands. Deep oceans would be very deep (maybe 100 blocks at the most?) and have a very, very deep sand layer with some rocky outcroppings.
The important thing for biomes would be for them to be very big. The sense of scale in the current game is kind of lost, and landforms are all very closely bunched together. It should take at least a day to cross a biome (so players are forced to adapt to survive at least a night in that area,) sizes varying after that.
I know this thread is old, but I don't think anyone has given similar input to what I'm thinking so I'll go ahead. OP, if you'd like to respond and reassess, that'd be greatly appreciated :biggrin.gif: I like the idea in principle, but I think it could be either simplified or just explained more easily. I'm not sure if it's just me making it confusing or not. So if I have it right...
Tier 1 crafting is just the regular inventory crafting which lets you make lumber, sticks, torches and the like, right?
Tier 2 has the addition of campfires and masonary tables? As a suggestion, make it so workbenches can't craft metal tools. Just wood and stone.
Also, campfires should be just a simple 1x1 structure that you put on the ground, maybe made by placing 2 dirt blocks on the bottom in your inventory crafting. Then add wood to like a furnace to get instant fire that's significantly brighter than a torch. Then you can cook simple foods off of that like you do a furnace. Wood and sticks would last longer than they do in a furnace. I always find it annoying starting a game and not finding any coal for a bit, and my furnace being less than ideal for light generation during night/when mining. I think it's primary focus should be giving the player light initially, while also making it an option as a later game light generation.
For Masonry, I think it'd be best built with 4 stone in the inventory crafting like a workbench. I think it fits better, and it'd go with my suggestion of not being able to make iron tools from the workbench, keeping masonry a definite tier 2 thing.
Additionally, cobblestone should be gravel instead of sand.
Additionally-additionally, basic stone building materials should be built here and not at the workbench. Stone steps and stairs and other such things. If other "stone" things like marble or obsidian or whatever get added and able to be crafted, they'd be crafted here.
I'll admit that I'm not 100% understanding about the furnace changes, but I think that furnace should remain mostly the same. Smelt ores to get ingots, use ingots to craft.
Though, it could be cool to refine things. Add copper into the game (which I might support if intuitive tools were made,) and you have 2 things to refine; copper to bronze and iron to steel. However, I'd just suggest the refining mechanic to be putting an ingot back into the furnace like you would ore, but smelting takes twice as long as regular ores. Consequently, bronze and steel would be maybe 1.5 times as strong as copper and iron respectively.
I like the anvil a lot. It'd definitely add more depth to the game. I'd suggest to make it in the workbench with 7 iron blocks, 6 on the top 2 rows and one at the bottom in the middle (slightly resembling an anvil and keeping with the crafting idea.) Then, you'd just be able to craft as normal.
Apothecary's so-so for me, I think that Notch would need to add a lot to the current game to make potions interesting and/or viable rather than just a gimmicky offshoot, but it'd be interesting and a good addition if there were more items in the game and more monsters and situations that potions could be used.
I like the loom a lot too. May I suggest being able to craft wool into string using it?
Tier 4's iffy to me. I think it'd be better for simplicity's sake to keep food making to the fire. But, if it was a combination of crafting table + furnace system to cook food after making recipes, I'd support it, at least definitely when the game gets more complex with more baddies and better multiplayer. As in, you'd have a crafting table-like grid at the top to place your ingredients, then a furnace-like fuel at the bottom to start cooking your food.
I have to admit, I don't like advanced forge at all. It'd be much better to stick with regular forge/anvil which can craft all metals.
Where I might support it is if it was required to make metal armour. That'd certainly be a logical step forward for the game, and you could also use it to do things like make placable metal blocks and minecarts and minecart tracks.
I'd like to add here one idea; a carpentry table. You'd use this to make bigger structures, like bookcases, maybe boats and other such things that are wooden-based but have a big feel. However, I'd suggest it as something "easy" like placing 4 crafting tables together, or something of a similar idea to make them easy to get, but an investment so you don't place them everywhere like you do crafting tables. Additionally, you'd be able to use them as regular crafting tables. I think these would be good for unlocking a future of complex but logical machines, like more realistic boats (regular boat, sailing boat, etc.)
The alchemy, I love. I found this thread from your other alchemy thread, OP, and I 100% support the idea.
Also, may I add having different grid systems. With a logical increase in technology like this, I think a logical increase in complexity is needed as well, as well as keeping the system intuitive "hey, it DOES kind of look like a pickaxe!" So, may I propose:
Keep inventory and crafting table crafting with the same grid system, and give camp fires a similar system to furnaces, but maybe add in one or two extra slots at the bottom, so you can burn more than JUST lumber or JUST sticks.
For masonry table, just make it with the same grid as crafting, but you can't put wood on it. Masonry things shouldn't use wood, so it would confuse new players much, much less and I think that's important.
Keep furnace the same as it is.
Make an anvil so it has 2 rows 3 wide on the top, and one space sticking out of the bottom. Again, this make it kind of look like an anvil, and makes it so you can visually only craft tools and weapon, also giving the player a natural idea of what to do based off of what was done before to craft wooden and stone tools and weapons.
Have the loom's grid 4 high and 2 across, so doing something like making cloth would require you to string out your items like you would a loom in real life.
Can't think of anything for advanced forge. Perhaps make it like the masonry table so you can only place stone on it? Not sure.
My carpentry table would be a massive 5x5 area where there's room for much more complex designs than other areas would allow. That gives room for more intuitive and more resource-draining designs for complex mechanisms than a smaller grid.
So just my ideas there. How do you feel about this OP? I know that this thread was made a while ago, but I like the idea and I personally don't want to make a thread on a slight variation of this idea. Good ideas anyways! Cheers :smile.gif:
I know that I don't want to be playing a multiplayer game against people who are all out to wreck my stuff
I do! I just want a reasonable chance to beat them at their own game, if I've prepared for it. A griefer has nothing to lose. Even killing them isn't beating them.
I can agree with this. There's definitely room for people to go around and mercilessly beat others silly... as long as everyone's up for that. It's the same way how there's room to have warring factions building up giant castles and cities to fight and raid each other with, or how there's room to have just one big team that's building up their awesome city of awesomeness. But when you have lone wolves going in and destroying stuff in those other scenarios, not even through hacking, it's suddenly a lot less awesome.
Dummy, when you play singleplayer survival, do you just hole yourself up in a little cave and sit around trying to fight off the spiders? I doubt that there are that many people who do that. People that play survival want a fun experience where they can feel reward for the stuff they built and just make a cool game world while fighting off the occasional mob. I know that I don't want to be playing a multiplayer game against people who are all out to wreck my stuff, and I'm sure there are people that'll take my position. I want to be able to mine with some people and work together to engineer an awesome castle and giant town. I don't want players coming in and destroying it for their own amusement. There are plenty of situation that huge pvp wars would be cool, but not in every server, infinite TNT + lava or not.
Someone suggested a forest dungeon type idea in another thread, and it gave me the idea that perhaps there should be a bunch of different biome-themed dungeons:
-Snip-
Yess yes yes I love this! Since I saw the little dungeons that we have now, I've been thinking that it can't be that hard to randomly generate huge sprawley dungeons as the game does caves and regular dungeons right now.
When I think of these bigger dungeons, I usually think of a Legend of Zelda feel with them. Kind of like a little super side quest/thing to add to the game. Imagine randomly set out pregenerated generated puzzle rooms taking pages from the books of Legend of Zelda and the like, offset with chests, treasure rooms and mob rooms and other such things, and maybe even a key system to make it even more like other adventure game dungeons?
Though I think that if you're getting that advanced and complicated, a lot more would need to be added to the game first. More items and more mobs, to add to the interesting-ness of different types of levels. Actually, I think that plenty of pages could be taken from the book of Legend of Zelda and other similar games in dungeon design and feel. And it could also go very, very well with the mythical future adventure game mode making it almost imperative then at least.
OP, if survival mode was all about surviving, then it would have grown old for almost everyone a long time ago. The name survival is a bit of a misnomer: it's not so much as being strictly about survival as maintaining the realism and making it so that you need to put hard work into your creations. The "real" survival mode will be adventure whenever it's done.
Creative mode is for people that really want to go out and make some piece of art and use their imaginations. Survival mode is making it so that if you want to build a giant fort, you need to work to make that, and that just makes the final product all the more sweeter. And the idea of survival multiplayer is being able to enjoy this struggle with other people, and maybe to give a reason to build your huge defences. It's not to have other people TNT your buildings all to rubble. If you want to have a more in depth game and get people assaulting your fortifications, then maybe that'd add a different dimension of gameplay to people who want it. Some people just want to make their castles and towns and have some fun with other players. And nobody wants someone giving themselves 100 TNT and destroying all their work.
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But I will agree that bigger boats and a bigger variety in boats would be quite cool for the future.
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I think that the best way to do this is have 3 basic biomes: plains, forest and desert. Within all of those would be different geographical quirks. There might be a big mountain range interrupting your forest, which results in forested hills leading up to big snow-capped stone peaks. There might be a river going through your desert which gives you a huge system of canyons and hoodoo-like things, which would be a good replacement for the awesome cliffs and eroded terrain in the current minecraft. Deserts may have small Oases with trees all around them.
I think that jungle should just be a denser forest. Regular forests should be fairly constant tree cover (much more than exists now,) while rainforest/jungle would be total forest cover maybe 2 or 3 trees thick, with some really tall trees poking out of the regular jungle cover, making a nighttime-like darkness on the forest floor. Players would probably spawn in the treetops here.
I think that for Taiga and Tundra, it'd be better to just mix this idea up with a summer/winter cycle and let those be forests and plains during the wintertime. Mountain peaks would be snowy all year round. Deserts wouldn't get snowy though, because deserts are dry by definition.
As for ocean, I'd suggest that there be a "shallow ocean" and "deep ocean." Shallow ocean would be 10 blocks at the deepest contain reefs, islands and atolls, and be mostly sand except for reefs and inland on bigger islands. Deep oceans would be very deep (maybe 100 blocks at the most?) and have a very, very deep sand layer with some rocky outcroppings.
The important thing for biomes would be for them to be very big. The sense of scale in the current game is kind of lost, and landforms are all very closely bunched together. It should take at least a day to cross a biome (so players are forced to adapt to survive at least a night in that area,) sizes varying after that.
Awesome idea though OP :smile.gif:
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Tier 1 crafting is just the regular inventory crafting which lets you make lumber, sticks, torches and the like, right?
Tier 2 has the addition of campfires and masonary tables? As a suggestion, make it so workbenches can't craft metal tools. Just wood and stone.
Also, campfires should be just a simple 1x1 structure that you put on the ground, maybe made by placing 2 dirt blocks on the bottom in your inventory crafting. Then add wood to like a furnace to get instant fire that's significantly brighter than a torch. Then you can cook simple foods off of that like you do a furnace. Wood and sticks would last longer than they do in a furnace. I always find it annoying starting a game and not finding any coal for a bit, and my furnace being less than ideal for light generation during night/when mining. I think it's primary focus should be giving the player light initially, while also making it an option as a later game light generation.
For Masonry, I think it'd be best built with 4 stone in the inventory crafting like a workbench. I think it fits better, and it'd go with my suggestion of not being able to make iron tools from the workbench, keeping masonry a definite tier 2 thing.
Additionally, cobblestone should be gravel instead of sand.
Additionally-additionally, basic stone building materials should be built here and not at the workbench. Stone steps and stairs and other such things. If other "stone" things like marble or obsidian or whatever get added and able to be crafted, they'd be crafted here.
I'll admit that I'm not 100% understanding about the furnace changes, but I think that furnace should remain mostly the same. Smelt ores to get ingots, use ingots to craft.
Though, it could be cool to refine things. Add copper into the game (which I might support if intuitive tools were made,) and you have 2 things to refine; copper to bronze and iron to steel. However, I'd just suggest the refining mechanic to be putting an ingot back into the furnace like you would ore, but smelting takes twice as long as regular ores. Consequently, bronze and steel would be maybe 1.5 times as strong as copper and iron respectively.
I like the anvil a lot. It'd definitely add more depth to the game. I'd suggest to make it in the workbench with 7 iron blocks, 6 on the top 2 rows and one at the bottom in the middle (slightly resembling an anvil and keeping with the crafting idea.) Then, you'd just be able to craft as normal.
Apothecary's so-so for me, I think that Notch would need to add a lot to the current game to make potions interesting and/or viable rather than just a gimmicky offshoot, but it'd be interesting and a good addition if there were more items in the game and more monsters and situations that potions could be used.
I like the loom a lot too. May I suggest being able to craft wool into string using it?
Tier 4's iffy to me. I think it'd be better for simplicity's sake to keep food making to the fire. But, if it was a combination of crafting table + furnace system to cook food after making recipes, I'd support it, at least definitely when the game gets more complex with more baddies and better multiplayer. As in, you'd have a crafting table-like grid at the top to place your ingredients, then a furnace-like fuel at the bottom to start cooking your food.
I have to admit, I don't like advanced forge at all. It'd be much better to stick with regular forge/anvil which can craft all metals.
Where I might support it is if it was required to make metal armour. That'd certainly be a logical step forward for the game, and you could also use it to do things like make placable metal blocks and minecarts and minecart tracks.
I'd like to add here one idea; a carpentry table. You'd use this to make bigger structures, like bookcases, maybe boats and other such things that are wooden-based but have a big feel. However, I'd suggest it as something "easy" like placing 4 crafting tables together, or something of a similar idea to make them easy to get, but an investment so you don't place them everywhere like you do crafting tables. Additionally, you'd be able to use them as regular crafting tables. I think these would be good for unlocking a future of complex but logical machines, like more realistic boats (regular boat, sailing boat, etc.)
The alchemy, I love. I found this thread from your other alchemy thread, OP, and I 100% support the idea.
Also, may I add having different grid systems. With a logical increase in technology like this, I think a logical increase in complexity is needed as well, as well as keeping the system intuitive "hey, it DOES kind of look like a pickaxe!" So, may I propose:
Keep inventory and crafting table crafting with the same grid system, and give camp fires a similar system to furnaces, but maybe add in one or two extra slots at the bottom, so you can burn more than JUST lumber or JUST sticks.
For masonry table, just make it with the same grid as crafting, but you can't put wood on it. Masonry things shouldn't use wood, so it would confuse new players much, much less and I think that's important.
Keep furnace the same as it is.
Make an anvil so it has 2 rows 3 wide on the top, and one space sticking out of the bottom. Again, this make it kind of look like an anvil, and makes it so you can visually only craft tools and weapon, also giving the player a natural idea of what to do based off of what was done before to craft wooden and stone tools and weapons.
Have the loom's grid 4 high and 2 across, so doing something like making cloth would require you to string out your items like you would a loom in real life.
Can't think of anything for advanced forge. Perhaps make it like the masonry table so you can only place stone on it? Not sure.
My carpentry table would be a massive 5x5 area where there's room for much more complex designs than other areas would allow. That gives room for more intuitive and more resource-draining designs for complex mechanisms than a smaller grid.
So just my ideas there. How do you feel about this OP? I know that this thread was made a while ago, but I like the idea and I personally don't want to make a thread on a slight variation of this idea. Good ideas anyways! Cheers :smile.gif:
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When I think of these bigger dungeons, I usually think of a Legend of Zelda feel with them. Kind of like a little super side quest/thing to add to the game. Imagine randomly set out pregenerated generated puzzle rooms taking pages from the books of Legend of Zelda and the like, offset with chests, treasure rooms and mob rooms and other such things, and maybe even a key system to make it even more like other adventure game dungeons?
Though I think that if you're getting that advanced and complicated, a lot more would need to be added to the game first. More items and more mobs, to add to the interesting-ness of different types of levels. Actually, I think that plenty of pages could be taken from the book of Legend of Zelda and other similar games in dungeon design and feel. And it could also go very, very well with the mythical future adventure game mode making it almost imperative then at least.
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Creative mode is for people that really want to go out and make some piece of art and use their imaginations. Survival mode is making it so that if you want to build a giant fort, you need to work to make that, and that just makes the final product all the more sweeter. And the idea of survival multiplayer is being able to enjoy this struggle with other people, and maybe to give a reason to build your huge defences. It's not to have other people TNT your buildings all to rubble. If you want to have a more in depth game and get people assaulting your fortifications, then maybe that'd add a different dimension of gameplay to people who want it. Some people just want to make their castles and towns and have some fun with other players. And nobody wants someone giving themselves 100 TNT and destroying all their work.