I think that somewhere down the line, biomes will be added (ie: some parts of the map will get snow, some will be deserts, etc.) with resources available in those places that are not available in others. that should give you a reason to travel and spread out, and also encourage trade between clumps of people who live in different places.
The hunger thing would definitely be awesome, though.
The griefers already won if the first thing you want in a game is mechanics that isolate you from the (booooo!!!! awfull dangerous terrorist) strangers.
the griefers win when they get their petty little thrill after destroying something i've been working on and i go somewhere else in frustration.
the griefers lose when they can't do that anymore. I win when i'm allowed to have fun, and they're not allowed to have fun at my expense.
do you really want this to be what minecraft is all about?:
No, of course not. I'm not defending griefing in general, I'm saying that the tools you use to combat it should take place out of game, not something that changes the rules of the game. If that takes place large-scale, then in my mind griefers will have won. A whitelist or possibly server rollbacks for really big events should prove to be tools enough.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to have your server where you all play with invincible sand castles and no risk of failure I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't want to play on a server with such things.
(Also, kinda beside the point, but that grief in the video was pretty pathetic. I could clean that up in 5 minutes, tops, and it would take at least that long to get enough materials for a bucket and to find a source of lava)
And just because you don't want to play on such a server, it should not be possible? Why don't we put it in the game, and if you don't want to use it, you can make your own server with it deactivated. that way, we both get what we want.
there are a whole lot of things i would like to see implemented, and land claim is just the first step in that chain. if everyone is given a land claim of 200x200 squares, why not allow people to ally their claims with those of other players, to allow cooperative city building in a world of competing strangers? let city-states arise as people band together, and see trade flourish as necessary resources are restricted to specific biomes, and cities arise in frozen wastes and burning deserts to take advantage of the riches found there. Replace random monster spawns with npc's hired by kings and see armies grow, whose upkeep can only be maintained by a city rich in commerce. Watch nations go to war, armies of player-directed zombie minions throwing themselves against the buttresses of the city on the other side of the continent.
ok, i'm getting ahead of myself here, but until someone is allowed to say this is mine and that is yours, there will be no progress for this game.
yes, there should be the option of destroying what others have made, but not senseless destruction. destruction needs to take as much effort as construction.
They are not mutually exclusive. I don't know half the people on my server. You have a whitelist, so you won't get someone who logs in for 10 minutes, throws lava everywhere, and then leaves never to be seen again. And I don't see why you're so caught up in the building you built lasting forever. If you've really just got to keep something to remind you about it, then take a picture. I'd much rather finish it and move on to other stuff. Who cares what happens to it after that? You built it, and nothing can change that. Trying to say that what you built is so awesome that nobody should be able to touch it forever is frankly just a bit arrogant.
I've had it happen to me repeatedly that for whatever reason, the building I'd worked so hard on was destroyed or the work otherwise undone. I didn't whine or complain or ask for a server reset, I moved on and built something better with the experience I'd gotten while building the other one. It's good to start with a clean slate every once in a while.
I would straight out disagree that minecraft should NOT be a game where you don't have to worry about your sandcastle getting knocked down. That's what creative servers are for. Survival brings in risk of loss, whether it be by death or by creeper or by the hands of other players. Everyone's on even ground. Like I said, have a whitelist, even if all it takes to get on it is to post in a thread. That stops a lot of drive-by griefing in it's tracks, and the rest you can deal with.
It's not that it should never be touched forever, it should not be touched until i'm through with it.
and yes, we've all been griefed. and every single time it's happened to me, it has been impossible to counteract. even cooperatively, one griefer is enough to ruin the enjoyment of half a dozen others.
You make a big stink about minecraft being the game where you play by your own rules and have the freedom to act as you want, but then go on to say that I should regulate others' behavior by using server-side controls to do so. How is a whitelist any less domineering than a territory flag? At least give us the option of protecting something we've spent time and energy building. I can't be on the server 24/7 regulating who does what and keeping an active list of the people who do wrong.
do you really want this to be what minecraft is all about?:
I was more looking at the problem of someone who clears out a mineshaft, or works his way through all the spawns in a cavern system and logs off for the day, only to find out that someone else came in and mined out all the veins that he worked so hard to get to.
you can't have an economy without property, and you can't have property in minecraft if you're gone for 90% of the day with no way of making sure that the mine you dug wasn't stripped bare and flooded with lava while you were gone.
If I spend all day planting trees and reeds, i do so with the understanding that when i log back on, they will all still be there for me to harvest.
without that guarantee, there is no reason for me to invest my time for someone else's profit.
That's sensible. A land claim would be a nice thing to have. A sign saying that it's your property and a lock on the door would go a long way, but some "real" land claiming ability would be ideal.
Honestly, that would break minecraft for me. It's hard to explain exactly how, but just removing the aspect of minecraft where everything can be broken down by anyone, given tools and time, is what makes minecraft so special. Anything that gets rid of that is bad in my book. If you're really worried about griefing, then get a whitelist, back your server up often, and most importantly, play with people you trust. I've got a chest full of iron and gold and diamonds sitting at the bottom of my tower, open without even so much as a door guarding it, and I don't have any fear of it being stolen from or destroyed because I trust the people on my server. If someone does end up stealing from my chest, then I'll deal with it in-game, protect my valuables more since I know someone's a thief (it's all just good fun though, I mean it's a game after all) and keep playing.
Stuff like that is a very integral part of minecraft: It sticks you in a simple world with simple rules, and then all sorts of complexity arises once you hand that to players. If someone does something you don't like, then that's part of the game, and you can deal with it in-game because the rules are so flexible. If you start messing with those rules to make things more convenient, or stop people from doing stuff you don't like (other than some specific stuff that abuses the coding, like flooding the world) then suddenly the game is much less open and interesting. The whole reason minecraft is so successful is because you can make it the game you want it to be, instead of being forced into a narrow definition of how some people think the game "should" be played, and what you "should" and "should not" be able to do.
Minecraft gives us an almost infinite world to explore, so does it really detract from your enjoyment if I want to say that this little 200x200 square chunk of it is mine? I just want a place where i can build my stuff in peace, without someone else breaking it. I also want the opportunity to meet new people, see what these people have made, and show them what I can do. the two are mutually exclusive unless i have some kind of safeguard against the morons infesting the classic servers.
and no, you can't deal with it in-game, because griefers have no attachment to anything in-game. they come in, they destroy, and they leave, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I had a big response written up after this, but then i was reminded of an article I read, i'm just going to link that. gimme a min.
I don't think an economy would be possible without a few protections implemented. perhaps a way for people to claim certain areas- (i know territory flags have appeared here or there on suggestions before, but how else are you supposed to stop a farmer from running over to the miner's mine while he's away) and a way for people to trade while they are offline (a craftable 'trading table' where you can load it up storage-box like and set prices. I fill my storage table with diamonds and set the price at one stack of reeds each. I log off, and people can right-click on the trading post and deposit a stack of reeds in exchange for a diamond)
On low pop servers, it's the only way to go: you can't wait for the server's only miner to log on if you really, really need some tools made
You could walk into a diamond mine and start trying to mine diamonds in real life, but you don't. You don't have to force people to focus on one thing for them to specialize. People will do what they want to do, or what gets them the most stuff the fastest. If you've got a server with a bunch of people that like to pick flowers, then they'll all pick flowers, and the one guy who likes to mine will be able to trade all his iron and gold for a bunch of cool flowers, or flower-based products. If there's really a shortage of miners, then some of the flower-pickers might be tempted to start mining instead, since they can trade all the stuff they get there for a whole ton of flowers.
For example, I spend a lot of time underground. Naturally, I have a pretty good amount of coal, most of which I don't use. What I don't have, is wood. I *could* make myself an iron axe and go hack away at trees for a while, or I could offer some of that coal up for trade with someone who spends more time above ground, and cuts down trees pretty regularly even just to clear out space.
I was more looking at the problem of someone who clears out a mineshaft, or works his way through all the spawns in a cavern system and logs off for the day, only to find out that someone else came in and mined out all the veins that he worked so hard to get to.
you can't have an economy without property, and you can't have property in minecraft if you're gone for 90% of the day with no way of making sure that the mine you dug wasn't stripped bare and flooded with lava while you were gone.
If I spend all day planting trees and reeds, i do so with the understanding that when i log back on, they will all still be there for me to harvest.
without that guarantee, there is no reason for me to invest my time for someone else's profit.
I don't think an economy would be possible without a few protections implemented. perhaps a way for people to claim certain areas- (i know territory flags have appeared here or there on suggestions before, but how else are you supposed to stop a farmer from running over to the miner's mine while he's away) and a way for people to trade while they are offline (a craftable 'trading table' where you can load it up storage-box like and set prices. I fill my storage table with diamonds and set the price at one stack of reeds each. I log off, and people can right-click on the trading post and deposit a stack of reeds in exchange for a diamond)
On low pop servers, it's the only way to go: you can't wait for the server's only miner to log on if you really, really need some tools made
0
a little new here, what is it?
0
The hunger thing would definitely be awesome, though.
0
the griefers win when they get their petty little thrill after destroying something i've been working on and i go somewhere else in frustration.
the griefers lose when they can't do that anymore. I win when i'm allowed to have fun, and they're not allowed to have fun at my expense.
0
And just because you don't want to play on such a server, it should not be possible? Why don't we put it in the game, and if you don't want to use it, you can make your own server with it deactivated. that way, we both get what we want.
there are a whole lot of things i would like to see implemented, and land claim is just the first step in that chain. if everyone is given a land claim of 200x200 squares, why not allow people to ally their claims with those of other players, to allow cooperative city building in a world of competing strangers? let city-states arise as people band together, and see trade flourish as necessary resources are restricted to specific biomes, and cities arise in frozen wastes and burning deserts to take advantage of the riches found there. Replace random monster spawns with npc's hired by kings and see armies grow, whose upkeep can only be maintained by a city rich in commerce. Watch nations go to war, armies of player-directed zombie minions throwing themselves against the buttresses of the city on the other side of the continent.
ok, i'm getting ahead of myself here, but until someone is allowed to say this is mine and that is yours, there will be no progress for this game.
yes, there should be the option of destroying what others have made, but not senseless destruction. destruction needs to take as much effort as construction.
0
It's not that it should never be touched forever, it should not be touched until i'm through with it.
and yes, we've all been griefed. and every single time it's happened to me, it has been impossible to counteract. even cooperatively, one griefer is enough to ruin the enjoyment of half a dozen others.
You make a big stink about minecraft being the game where you play by your own rules and have the freedom to act as you want, but then go on to say that I should regulate others' behavior by using server-side controls to do so. How is a whitelist any less domineering than a territory flag? At least give us the option of protecting something we've spent time and energy building. I can't be on the server 24/7 regulating who does what and keeping an active list of the people who do wrong.
do you really want this to be what minecraft is all about?:
0
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1758
simply put, minecraft should be a game where you don't have to worry about your sandcastle getting knocked down.
0
Minecraft gives us an almost infinite world to explore, so does it really detract from your enjoyment if I want to say that this little 200x200 square chunk of it is mine? I just want a place where i can build my stuff in peace, without someone else breaking it. I also want the opportunity to meet new people, see what these people have made, and show them what I can do. the two are mutually exclusive unless i have some kind of safeguard against the morons infesting the classic servers.
and no, you can't deal with it in-game, because griefers have no attachment to anything in-game. they come in, they destroy, and they leave, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I had a big response written up after this, but then i was reminded of an article I read, i'm just going to link that. gimme a min.
0
I was more looking at the problem of someone who clears out a mineshaft, or works his way through all the spawns in a cavern system and logs off for the day, only to find out that someone else came in and mined out all the veins that he worked so hard to get to.
you can't have an economy without property, and you can't have property in minecraft if you're gone for 90% of the day with no way of making sure that the mine you dug wasn't stripped bare and flooded with lava while you were gone.
If I spend all day planting trees and reeds, i do so with the understanding that when i log back on, they will all still be there for me to harvest.
without that guarantee, there is no reason for me to invest my time for someone else's profit.
0
On low pop servers, it's the only way to go: you can't wait for the server's only miner to log on if you really, really need some tools made