Having both ran a server and having watched the moderation of other servers go on, I hate dealing with/hearing those petty problems that most of the time, I can't imagine coming from anybody other then a less then 14 year old. Whats worse is when those people BECOME ADMIN/MOD and start abusing privileges and ruining the server.
Having a threshold for your server is respectable, and I hope it works out for you.
I'd like to point out that there are people under 18 who are just as or even more mature than an 18 year old or even someone older, I myself am 14, I own two servers, both are pretty successful, I will get pissed off a lot at the really immature kids on my servers but really you have to live with it, not everyone in the world is perfect. Actually on my server I have a kid who was probably the most mature person on the WHOLE server, probably the most mature of everyone that I've played with on Minecraft, he makes a REALLY good mod application, the second question; How old are you? His answer: 9. I was really surprised that all this time some kid who is probably as mature as a 20 year old was really 9...It shocked me...I do understand where a lot of you come from when looking at something like age, but you do have to understand that there are kids out there who are mature, probably more mature that 85% of this forum's community. So please don't hate people younger than 18 just because of the few immature jerks out there.
Like I said before, I don't purely look at age usually, however in Minecraft it seems to be the hard and fast rule that can let you avoid a lot of pain(s) in the ass. As far as having to put up with it, that's up to the server admin though. On mine I'm creating the environment I want to play in as far as other players goes by putting that age limit on there. If it means it's just me and 4 other people playing, that's fine with me, I'm not out to have the biggest baddest server in town. I just want an environment where I know people are 18 or over, where I know that everyone either has a job, or goes to university, or has kids to raise.
Doesn't mean they can't be immature, but it does mean that generally there is much less drama, and if there is any drama it gets worked out between the parties involved in a new york minute. This means that there is no disruption to gameplay, and generally works out into having people happily building the things they want and doing what they feel like.
It is, however, all down to choice. I choose to have that rule, so I also choose to not have 100 players online at any given time. I choose to have that rule, so I choose to potentially miss out on those under 18's that are very mature. In the end it's just a matter of point of view.
Edit: I will say I don't hate anyone under 18, it's just that there are a bunch of rotten apples that ruin it for the good ones. Then again that's nothing new, just look at politics and religion
Looking for a friendly community? Look no further, and join the BlockStackers! We run a Vanilla whitelisted server, a Feed The Beast server, and a Survival server with some twists.
Having both ran a server and having watched the moderation of other servers go on, I hate dealing with/hearing those petty problems that most of the time, I can't imagine coming from anybody other then a less then 14 year old. Whats worse is when those people BECOME ADMIN/MOD and start abusing privileges and ruining the server.
Having a threshold for your server is respectable, and I hope it works out for you.
I hope so too, so far it seems to be doing alright. It's not the biggest or busiest one, but it seems everyone is entertaining themselves playing on it, which is after all the goal of the whole exercise
I currently have myself as admin, and one other person who has operator privileges just because it's convenient that someone else has them. Other than that there won't be any mods, ops or admins on there. Does mean it might take a day for problems to get worked out, and generally it can take a few days for spawn to get fixed if it gets creepered, but it also means I don't have any op-related shenanigans to deal with.
I think I mentioned it before (going off on a tangent, hold on to your socks!) but I laugh every time I look in the 'Looking For' section and see people responding to staff/mod/operator requests. Half of them wouldn't know what to do with it if they got it, the other half just wants it as a status symbol. For me it's simple, if you play on my server long enough, and I know you're not a psychopatic axe-murdering sociopath with a penchant for abusing small furry animals, then I may or may not offer you a spot on the op list if I need any more of those.
Back on track...
I am, however, happy to say that those under 18 who applied for whitelist and got rejected due to their age have been very understanding and cool about it, which I honestly didn't expect. Similar to this thread it's stayed nice and calm and a good discussion is brewing, so... it's all good.
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I hope so too, so far it seems to be doing alright. It's not the biggest or busiest one, but it seems everyone is entertaining themselves playing on it, which is after all the goal of the whole exercise
I currently have myself as admin, and one other person who has operator privileges just because it's convenient that someone else has them. Other than that there won't be any mods, ops or admins on there. Does mean it might take a day for problems to get worked out, and generally it can take a few days for spawn to get fixed if it gets creepered, but it also means I don't have any op-related shenanigans to deal with.
I think I mentioned it before (going off on a tangent, hold on to your socks!) but I laugh every time I look in the 'Looking For' section and see people responding to staff/mod/operator requests. Half of them wouldn't know what to do with it if they got it, the other half just wants it as a status symbol. For me it's simple, if you play on my server long enough, and I know you're not a psychopatic axe-murdering sociopath with a penchant for abusing small furry animals, then I may or may not offer you a spot on the op list if I need any more of those.
Back on track...
I am, however, happy to say that those under 18 who applied for whitelist and got rejected due to their age have been very understanding and cool about it, which I honestly didn't expect. Similar to this thread it's stayed nice and calm and a good discussion is brewing, so... it's all good.
Yes, like you said before, kids generally want to "win the game", which being a Mod/OP makes them seem like they are.
If they want to be loyal to the server, and act mature, then sure, i'll consider it.
But people showing up and after only a very short period of time asking to be an admin, they generally want it for the wrong reasons.
Wrong section. But you're right to make it 18+. Playing on most other servers (even 16+) should cure you of any doubts.
Not sure on the section bit but if it is wrong, maybe a mod could move it to where it should be Playing on other servers is why I now run my own
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“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
I think that this is partly the right thing to do. I agree that the players should be mature unless you want to be annoyed constantly. I am a guard on a prison server and constantly get bugged with questions over and over. Quite annoying if you ask me. I am only 13, but I am quite mature and believe there are many 18+ that are less mature than me. Even though I am very young, that doesn't mean I am inmature.
I think that this is partly the right thing to do. I agree that the players should be mature unless you want to be annoyed constantly. I am a guard on a prison server and constantly get bugged with questions over and over. Quite annoying if you ask me. I am only 13, but I am quite mature and believe there are many 18+ that are less mature than me. Even though I am very young, that doesn't mean I am inmature.
You're right, but I never said all under 18 people are immature, or that all over 18 people are mature. It goes both ways For me the rule is like that first gate at an amusement park ride, the "you must be this high to..." type. It gets rid of a lot of potential trouble waiting to happen, and unfortunately also gets rid of those under 18 folks that are mature. But it works... for my server, at least
I like to do this a lot, too, but more often than not, I let kids get away with it if they can fit in. I'm 14 myself, but I try not to act like it.
It's not really an age thing, it's a maturity matter. Plenty of kids are respectful and courteous, and I'm not going to stop them from playing if they stay that way.
If you really want to get in to video game philosophy, I believe that there's two ages in video games; not ripe and ripe. Those that have matured to an appropriate level of sweetness and fine taste are ready to be picked and put into the fruit basket that is your server. Those that are not yet ready can be left and picked back up when their time arrives.
I like the ripe/not ripe ... eh.. there's a word for that that has totally escaped my mind. Anyway, spot on. People that didn't make it onto the whitelist due to age aren't ignored either, I do keep track of the applications, and if at some point or other the 18+ rule gets altered, dropped, or replaced with an "please try to act 18+" rule, they'll be first in line. Whether or not that rule will change I honestly don't know. At this point the one I have seems to be working out.
Why did you write this? It seems more like your trying to start up a fire fight (which is quite immature).
And I can assure you, an 18+ rule is pretty useless as it happens. I mean, do you really think everyone on Facebook is 13+?
In my opinion, instead of this just say your only looking for mature members. That is something that is hard to fake.
I didn't start it as a flame, but I did start it as a rant, and to get a discussion going. I disagree on an 18+ rule being useless, considering that sure, not everyone on Facebook is 13+, but those that are under 13 broke the rule saying you've got to be 13 to sign up. Why would I want rule breakers on my server? I'm also not Facebook. If I was, I probably would have a high paid customer service person taking care of threads like this, and I'd be sipping cocktails on a small island in the south pacific or something.
And maturity can be faked. I see it done Doesn't mean 18+ players don't fake it from time to time, but it does mean that an 18+ rule has it's uses in weeding out the edge cases before they become edge cases.
I don't think he was trying to start a flame war...I think he was pointing out a fact and his side on it, and even educating other server owners.
Not so sure about educating, just saying that for my server, this is working out okay so far, but that's my server. How it'd work on someone else's, no idea
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I can really feel you man. I'm 16, going on 17 in a few months, and have recently made my server public. I do a lot of streaming on Twitch and videos on Youtube, and lately my numbers have picked up and I am getting a lot of viewers/server traffic.
Its given me headache after headache having to solve the little bull sh** arguments between little 12 year old emma and 9 year old timmy.
Its also getting old having every power hungry 13 year old kid joining my server expecting to be crowned an op just because he joined my server.
I know that I'm only 16 here, but regardless, I feel that there is a significant maturity difference between the ages of preteen/early teen to late teens.
I was lucky enough to have a 21 year join in my server, and made him a mod because of his maturity level.
I started a webpage to apply to become a mod and you can really just tell who is has the maturity and who does not. the 21 year olds application was well thought out and had time put into it while the 12-14 year olds just put a few lines here and there.
Anyway, 18+ is good, and nothing wrong with it. It just depends on what minecraft experience you are looking for.
Interesting rule, how many people are on (on average?) There aren't that many adults that play Minecraft, seems like it would be difficult putting together userbase of adults. If members are sending you harrassing messages, you should report them to a mod.
Interesting rule, how many people are on (on average?) There aren't that many adults that play Minecraft, seems like it would be difficult putting together userbase of adults. If members are sending you harrassing messages, you should report them to a mod.
Right now there are 63 people on the whitelist, with 55 being seen, about 20 regulars out of which usually any combination of 10 or so are on. During weekdays it's usually 5/6 at whatever timezone works out as being "prime time", weekends double
Personally I'm happy with that. I'd love to run a 250 slot server and have 80+ people on at all times, but for now I'll settle for this because we're having quite a good time.
To give you an idea, we've got all sorts of people on, ranging from redstone junkies to people that build some real damn pretty things. Sometimes there's lively chat, sometimes it's just dead quiet for an hour or two because people are just focusing on what they're doing.
Most cases of "osnap was that your tunnel/base/redstone wiring duct/pet wolf shack i just dug into" are solved amongst the players involved, and usually boil down to "here's some wood, go plug the hole, oh and bring me a cookie". I think I had to take a look at one structure once because it was plopped down in a spot another player already had gone to work at, turns out it was his friend, and they sorted it out amongst eachother.
Basically, I've had to put my "i am admin, hear me roar" hat on twice in 4 weeks. I call that a pretty good result
Regarding the reporting-to-mod bit, why bother. The posts don't bother me really, and reporting it takes time (okay not that much but still) that I'd rather spend not dealing with asshats
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Nope. Considering the fact that Team Avolition is the reason most hacks don't even work any more, they revealed that big session ID on migrated accounts vulnerability, and they have actively worked together and helped server owners, they actually rank pretty high in the anti-hacking department.
They are in a way to blame because of the sheer amount of copycats and other Avol wannabe's that cropped up afterwards.
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Every damn kid griefing nowdays calls themself "Team <insert pathetic word here>". I seen at least 200 of these
Yup... on the other hand I will say that many server admins are naive or just flat out incompetent when it comes to taking the appropriate security measures (or willingly not having them but knowing how to still keep things under control...)
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This is a good rule if you want a small server of people. I have a fair amount of people trafficking through my server, though we aren't extremely large we have an average of 10-20 people on and about 5-10 new people a day. That being said, of those people about 80% are under 18. I've found a lot of players that are under 18 are really nice people and are fine to get along with as long as you have the right boundaries set in place. One of my best Admins is 15 actually, he speaks fluent chinese,english,malyasian, and japanese. He is, most of the time, more adult than the older players.
I think this is a neat concept but I would never have it on mine. I do find it rather difficult when a 12 year old is on my server and some people are talking about things a 12 year old shouldn't hear..but then again, they shouldn't be allowed to play online if they aren't supposed to hear things like that.
Yup... on the other hand I will say that many server admins are naive or just flat out incompetent when it comes to taking the appropriate security measures (or willingly not having them but knowing how to still keep things under control...)
It is not always about security measures. There are many ways of getting into the console/ftp. I know this first hand as my friend is one of these infamous hackers which actually knows what he is doing. He is a grey hat though. He develops his own software for his hacking other than pull from the internet (which every person that says "i goin to hac ur servir" does and the admins look for.)
There are many ways to for a DoS-like hack to be effectively performed. For example, you can run a script on a server which sends 1000s of login messages a second which crashes most, even the larger servers.
Normally admins aren't given the level of access it takes to prevent these hacks. I would disagree it is the admins fault if the server is successfully hacked.
It is not always about security measures. There are many ways of getting into the console/ftp.
Would it come as a surprise to you if I told you that I don't run an FTP daemon, and that console access is limited to my own home IP?
These would be considered common sense security measures, yet many admins just flat out don't take them.
I know this first hand as my friend is one of these infamous hackers which actually knows what he is doing. He is a grey hat though. He develops his own software for his hacking other than pull from the internet (which every person that says "i goin to hac ur servir" does and the admins look for.)
I share the same grey hat as your friend, by the way
There are many ways to for a DoS-like hack to be effectively performed. For example, you can run a script on a server which sends 1000s of login messages a second which crashes most, even the larger servers.
Normally admins aren't given the level of access it takes to prevent these hacks. I would disagree it is the admins fault if the server is successfully hacked.
True, but that's more a matter of the software (read: Minecraft server) being all sorts of retarded about things like this. If you start seeing multiple login requests that do not complete successfully from the same IP it should at the very least throttle them, block them, or otherwise ensure that it hasn't got an impact on the server. It's not hard to do...
And sure, a lot of admins won't have the level of access to the OS required to secure things, however if the server gets hacked, then instead of looking at the admin, I'd look at the host instead - it's their job to secure their machines, after all.
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Minecraft started out on boards like Reddit and 4chan that have 16+ year olds (ish), Notch was the grand master and what he said goes.
Then it got popular, and now heaps of kids are playing it everywhere like spoiled brats. And Jeb is listening to them and putting their features in, making them think they are the all mighty Gods of Minecraft and that they should be able to hack and get /op because they are from planet Minecraft.
Yup.
I saw someone almost pull that kind of crap off in one server, its just annoying.
Having both ran a server and having watched the moderation of other servers go on, I hate dealing with/hearing those petty problems that most of the time, I can't imagine coming from anybody other then a less then 14 year old. Whats worse is when those people BECOME ADMIN/MOD and start abusing privileges and ruining the server.
Having a threshold for your server is respectable, and I hope it works out for you.
Like I said before, I don't purely look at age usually, however in Minecraft it seems to be the hard and fast rule that can let you avoid a lot of pain(s) in the ass. As far as having to put up with it, that's up to the server admin though. On mine I'm creating the environment I want to play in as far as other players goes by putting that age limit on there. If it means it's just me and 4 other people playing, that's fine with me, I'm not out to have the biggest baddest server in town. I just want an environment where I know people are 18 or over, where I know that everyone either has a job, or goes to university, or has kids to raise.
Doesn't mean they can't be immature, but it does mean that generally there is much less drama, and if there is any drama it gets worked out between the parties involved in a new york minute. This means that there is no disruption to gameplay, and generally works out into having people happily building the things they want and doing what they feel like.
It is, however, all down to choice. I choose to have that rule, so I also choose to not have 100 players online at any given time. I choose to have that rule, so I choose to potentially miss out on those under 18's that are very mature. In the end it's just a matter of point of view.
Edit: I will say I don't hate anyone under 18, it's just that there are a bunch of rotten apples that ruin it for the good ones. Then again that's nothing new, just look at politics and religion
I hope so too, so far it seems to be doing alright. It's not the biggest or busiest one, but it seems everyone is entertaining themselves playing on it, which is after all the goal of the whole exercise
I currently have myself as admin, and one other person who has operator privileges just because it's convenient that someone else has them. Other than that there won't be any mods, ops or admins on there. Does mean it might take a day for problems to get worked out, and generally it can take a few days for spawn to get fixed if it gets creepered, but it also means I don't have any op-related shenanigans to deal with.
I think I mentioned it before (going off on a tangent, hold on to your socks!) but I laugh every time I look in the 'Looking For' section and see people responding to staff/mod/operator requests. Half of them wouldn't know what to do with it if they got it, the other half just wants it as a status symbol. For me it's simple, if you play on my server long enough, and I know you're not a psychopatic axe-murdering sociopath with a penchant for abusing small furry animals, then I may or may not offer you a spot on the op list if I need any more of those.
Back on track...
I am, however, happy to say that those under 18 who applied for whitelist and got rejected due to their age have been very understanding and cool about it, which I honestly didn't expect. Similar to this thread it's stayed nice and calm and a good discussion is brewing, so... it's all good.
Yes, like you said before, kids generally want to "win the game", which being a Mod/OP makes them seem like they are.
If they want to be loyal to the server, and act mature, then sure, i'll consider it.
But people showing up and after only a very short period of time asking to be an admin, they generally want it for the wrong reasons.
Not sure on the section bit but if it is wrong, maybe a mod could move it to where it should be Playing on other servers is why I now run my own
This is the right section, all server administration discussion belongs in here.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
And I can assure you, an 18+ rule is pretty useless as it happens. I mean, do you really think everyone on Facebook is 13+?
In my opinion, instead of this just say your only looking for mature members. That is something that is hard to fake.
I don't think he was trying to start a flame war...I think he was pointing out a fact and his side on it, and even educating other server owners.
You're right, but I never said all under 18 people are immature, or that all over 18 people are mature. It goes both ways For me the rule is like that first gate at an amusement park ride, the "you must be this high to..." type. It gets rid of a lot of potential trouble waiting to happen, and unfortunately also gets rid of those under 18 folks that are mature. But it works... for my server, at least
I like the ripe/not ripe ... eh.. there's a word for that that has totally escaped my mind. Anyway, spot on. People that didn't make it onto the whitelist due to age aren't ignored either, I do keep track of the applications, and if at some point or other the 18+ rule gets altered, dropped, or replaced with an "please try to act 18+" rule, they'll be first in line. Whether or not that rule will change I honestly don't know. At this point the one I have seems to be working out.
I didn't start it as a flame, but I did start it as a rant, and to get a discussion going. I disagree on an 18+ rule being useless, considering that sure, not everyone on Facebook is 13+, but those that are under 13 broke the rule saying you've got to be 13 to sign up. Why would I want rule breakers on my server? I'm also not Facebook. If I was, I probably would have a high paid customer service person taking care of threads like this, and I'd be sipping cocktails on a small island in the south pacific or something.
And maturity can be faked. I see it done Doesn't mean 18+ players don't fake it from time to time, but it does mean that an 18+ rule has it's uses in weeding out the edge cases before they become edge cases.
Not so sure about educating, just saying that for my server, this is working out okay so far, but that's my server. How it'd work on someone else's, no idea
Its given me headache after headache having to solve the little bull sh** arguments between little 12 year old emma and 9 year old timmy.
Its also getting old having every power hungry 13 year old kid joining my server expecting to be crowned an op just because he joined my server.
I know that I'm only 16 here, but regardless, I feel that there is a significant maturity difference between the ages of preteen/early teen to late teens.
I was lucky enough to have a 21 year join in my server, and made him a mod because of his maturity level.
I started a webpage to apply to become a mod and you can really just tell who is has the maturity and who does not. the 21 year olds application was well thought out and had time put into it while the 12-14 year olds just put a few lines here and there.
Anyway, 18+ is good, and nothing wrong with it. It just depends on what minecraft experience you are looking for.
Http://www.CjTheFish.com
Right now there are 63 people on the whitelist, with 55 being seen, about 20 regulars out of which usually any combination of 10 or so are on. During weekdays it's usually 5/6 at whatever timezone works out as being "prime time", weekends double
Personally I'm happy with that. I'd love to run a 250 slot server and have 80+ people on at all times, but for now I'll settle for this because we're having quite a good time.
To give you an idea, we've got all sorts of people on, ranging from redstone junkies to people that build some real damn pretty things. Sometimes there's lively chat, sometimes it's just dead quiet for an hour or two because people are just focusing on what they're doing.
Most cases of "osnap was that your tunnel/base/redstone wiring duct/pet wolf shack i just dug into" are solved amongst the players involved, and usually boil down to "here's some wood, go plug the hole, oh and bring me a cookie". I think I had to take a look at one structure once because it was plopped down in a spot another player already had gone to work at, turns out it was his friend, and they sorted it out amongst eachother.
Basically, I've had to put my "i am admin, hear me roar" hat on twice in 4 weeks. I call that a pretty good result
Regarding the reporting-to-mod bit, why bother. The posts don't bother me really, and reporting it takes time (okay not that much but still) that I'd rather spend not dealing with asshats
They are in a way to blame because of the sheer amount of copycats and other Avol wannabe's that cropped up afterwards.
Yup... on the other hand I will say that many server admins are naive or just flat out incompetent when it comes to taking the appropriate security measures (or willingly not having them but knowing how to still keep things under control...)
I think this is a neat concept but I would never have it on mine. I do find it rather difficult when a 12 year old is on my server and some people are talking about things a 12 year old shouldn't hear..but then again, they shouldn't be allowed to play online if they aren't supposed to hear things like that.
Ironspire.net - Server - PvP/Survival Server
It is not always about security measures. There are many ways of getting into the console/ftp. I know this first hand as my friend is one of these infamous hackers which actually knows what he is doing. He is a grey hat though. He develops his own software for his hacking other than pull from the internet (which every person that says "i goin to hac ur servir" does and the admins look for.)
There are many ways to for a DoS-like hack to be effectively performed. For example, you can run a script on a server which sends 1000s of login messages a second which crashes most, even the larger servers.
Normally admins aren't given the level of access it takes to prevent these hacks. I would disagree it is the admins fault if the server is successfully hacked.
Would it come as a surprise to you if I told you that I don't run an FTP daemon, and that console access is limited to my own home IP?
These would be considered common sense security measures, yet many admins just flat out don't take them.
I share the same grey hat as your friend, by the way
True, but that's more a matter of the software (read: Minecraft server) being all sorts of retarded about things like this. If you start seeing multiple login requests that do not complete successfully from the same IP it should at the very least throttle them, block them, or otherwise ensure that it hasn't got an impact on the server. It's not hard to do...
And sure, a lot of admins won't have the level of access to the OS required to secure things, however if the server gets hacked, then instead of looking at the admin, I'd look at the host instead - it's their job to secure their machines, after all.