I hate Lockette and other related plugins. I've hated it ever since I started playing Minecraft. I think I hate it more than iConomy. Why? Because it doesn't belong in Minecraft. At all.
It saddens me when I see it destroy Vanilla servers relentlessly with it's promises of safety and solitude.
It saddens me when I see it destroy PvP servers ruthlessly with it's unwanted protection and limitations.
Reasons why I hate it:
1. There is always, always, always, always, the extremely easy and secure method to just hide your chests. Smelt some cobble, go in your mine, put your valuables in there, cover the hole, and walk away a happy man. So, basically, it's not necessary. It's a plugin for lazy and unmotivated players.
2. If you need lockette, you should be on a server with people who steal. If there's people who steal on your server, you're probably on a PvP server. If you're on a PvP server, stealing should be allowed and encouraged!
3. If you're worried about people stealing and absolutely refuse to hide chests, then build your house/castle/whateverpeoplebuildthesedays 100000000000000 blocks away or whatever distance you silly worriers desire. What's that? Still want to play with others? Only invite the most trusted players to your location. Griefers won't know your location, and even if they do figure out, they will not want to walk for hours to get to you. They'll move on to a more easily griefable server.
4. People put it on their vanilla servers and continue to call it vanilla. Guess what? You just poured chocolate syrup all over that tasty French vanilla.
5. It limits community and cooperation. If you live in a town and Bob needs to borrow something out of your lockette'd chest and you're far away exploring, he has to wait for you to get back so you can get those ender pearls out for him. Yeah, I know you can put multiple names on a chest, but that is inconvenient, limiting, and exclusive.
6. It takes away from the Minecraft experience as a whole. If someone finds a house and wants to look what's inside, why the hell shouldn't they be allowed to go through the front door? If they really want to, they can smash their way in. Let them walk through the door. Locking doors has to be the stupidest part of the plugin.
7. It destroys unused resources. Countless players quit and stop playing on servers. Yet, their chests will remain locked forever, full of great resources that new and active players could use to better themselves. Basically, without lockette, you can recycle. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Lockette seems to me to be a band-aid on a bigger problem.
I see it on pubby servers where there's a lot of rules, structure, hierarchy etc. but not much enforcing. The admins are swamped and they're hoping the software will do some of the moderating for them. Unfortunately plugins like Lockette aren't very smart, and are easily circumvented by hacks. At the same time, they add to the workload for honest players and discourage cooperative building.
The kinds of theft Lockette prevents are not the major threat to servers. Opportunistic petty larceny is widespread and somewhat annoying. It's hard to catch because these are otherwise self-restrained players who find themselves poking about in chests that aren't theirs, see a large quantity of supplies, and skim a few off the top.
That said, these players account for the majority of players everywhere. The ones you trust on a day-to-day basis to build, interact, and make the server fun. They're the guys who top the leaderboard in sales, but steal paperclips and pens and notepads and whatnot from the office. They're a net asset to the community by a wide margin, larceny notwithstanding. A constant undercurrent of petty larceny and extended "borrowing" can make you crai.
The odd thing is, you install Lockette and the community is no longer based on trust. The message you send by activating these sorts of nanny plugins is twofold: 1) Trust is deteriorating in our community and 2) I don't feel it's worth my time as admin to watch people, use my judgment about your conduct, so I'll install this nanny thing instead. It says "I don't know you people anymore. I can't talk to you about this, we can't have a frank discussion. So here's an automated alarm system."
The only time it's really worth the trouble to maintain it is when one or a few players have a serious hate-on for one another and are waging a cold war of blatant thievery and blaming others for it. You use lockette to stop the feud and identify the players responsible, and cut them out of the community. Then you disable it and proceed with the remaining folks just chillaxing in your newly detrolled server.
As for hiding chests, this is generally good counsel but if your server has such a pervasive theft problem that Lockette starts looking good, hiding chests will only hinder the petty thieves. It will do nothing against the Xrayers and client hackers, many of whom also have hacks to circumvent Lockette. It's the "ban firearms" dilemma all over again. You're just adding environmental pressure for determined trolls and skiddies to lame hacks.
I gotta agree. Really ruins the feel of minecraft. It just pisses my ass off when I see a pvp server based on factions and griefing with the lockette mod, and where anyone can protect their buildings. (Not faction protection, I mean like touch-this-and-you're-ass-****ed-and-or-unable-to-ever-open-this.
The only time I'll join a vanilla server is if it has anti cheat for x-ray textures and mods, flying, speedhack, etc.
I honestly cant wait until notch makes it practically impossible for clients to be made.
I do like how you remove the blame from the people who steal, and instead put it upon the admins. I see the logic. The police are doing a **** poor job because people put locks on their door. The police are lazy. If they were worth having around and were actually doing their jobs, they would be able to stop all the petty thievery and murder.
You're right. If people get rid of the locks on their doors, and start trusting each other, crime will vanish and the entire human race will suddenly become trustworthy.
Instead of using Lockette or other anti-griefing mods, we should instead embrace a policy of making certain our valuables are easy to get to by relying upon security through obscurity, which happens to be a scientifically proven method. Who cares if some people feel better about locking their valuables up. Their opinions are secondary to yours. If they were valuable members of the community, they would already share your viewpoint.
1. There is always, always, always, always, the extremely easy and secure method to just hide your chests. Smelt some cobble, go in your mine, put your valuables in there, cover the hole, and walk away a happy man. So, basically, it's not necessary.
It hides it from legit players, unless they happen to see it in an unloaded chunk. Non-legit players will find it in no time.
2. If you need lockette, you should be on a server with people who steal. If there's people who steal on your server, you're probably on a PvP server. If you're on a PvP server, stealing should be allowed and encouraged!
Server rules are up to the server, pvp does not guarantee theft being appropriate.
3. If you're worried about people stealing and absolutely refuse to hide chests, then build your house/castle/whateverpeoplebuildthesedays 100000000000000 blocks away or whatever distance you silly worriers desire.
lol, meaning go to the max distance and make your base. Yes that can help a fair amount.
4. People put it on their vanilla servers and continue to call it vanilla. Guess what? You just poured chocolate syrup all over that tasty French vanilla.
It's still vanilla style, strawberries make vanilla better.
5. It limits community and cooperation. If you live in a town and Bob needs to borrow something out of your lockette'd chest and you're far away exploring, he has to wait for you to get back so you can get those ender pearls out for him. Yeah, I know you can put multiple names on a chest, but that is inconvenient, limiting, and exclusive.
Make a community chest with multiple peoples names on it.
From an admin standpoint with regards to lockette the infinite uses is a larger issue. The double door ability was rather nice though. Personally love lwc, can limit uses and even force people to use passwords. Some folks use simple passwords making theft entertaining.
1. There is always, always, always, always, the extremely easy and secure method to just hide your chests. Smelt some cobble, go in your mine, put your valuables in there, cover the hole, and walk away a happy man. So, basically, it's not necessary.
It hides it from legit players, unless they happen to see it in an unloaded chunk. Non-legit players will find it in no time.
2. If you need lockette, you should be on a server with people who steal. If there's people who steal on your server, you're probably on a PvP server. If you're on a PvP server, stealing should be allowed and encouraged!
Server rules are up to the server, pvp does not guarantee theft being appropriate.
3. If you're worried about people stealing and absolutely refuse to hide chests, then build your house/castle/whateverpeoplebuildthesedays 100000000000000 blocks away or whatever distance you silly worriers desire.
lol, meaning go to the max distance and make your base. Yes that can help a fair amount.
4. People put it on their vanilla servers and continue to call it vanilla. Guess what? You just poured chocolate syrup all over that tasty French vanilla.
It's still vanilla style, strawberries make vanilla better.
5. It limits community and cooperation. If you live in a town and Bob needs to borrow something out of your lockette'd chest and you're far away exploring, he has to wait for you to get back so you can get those ender pearls out for him. Yeah, I know you can put multiple names on a chest, but that is inconvenient, limiting, and exclusive.
Make a community chest with multiple peoples names on it.
From an admin standpoint with regards to lockette the infinite uses is a larger issue. The double door ability was rather nice though. Personally love lwc, can limit uses and even force people to use passwords. Some folks use simple passwords making theft entertaining.
1. Every server should have anti-hacking plugins that will resolve this.
2. A good PvP server would allow stealing or there's really no point to PvPing other than being annoying. In my PvP server that I play on, I literally only carry a sword and two bread because I know I can die at any time. That's not a good incentive for people to kill me in the wilderness. The incentive is ideally the fact that if they find my base, I lose everything.
3. Or however far you want. It's up to you. Go to a distance you feel comfortable.
4. What the hell is vanilla style? No. Just no.
5. I like how you're so dependent on lockette that you'd go as far as to put multiple names on a community chest. You know, there is the option to put no Lockette sign on things.
Glad you find stealing an amusing and care-free topic "from an admin standpoint."
I do like how you remove the blame from the people who steal, and instead put it upon the admins. I see the logic. The police are doing a **** poor job because people put locks on their door. The police are lazy. If they were worth having around and were actually doing their jobs, they would be able to stop all the petty thievery and murder.
You're right. If people get rid of the locks on their doors, and start trusting each other, crime will vanish and the entire human race will suddenly become trustworthy.
Instead of using Lockette or other anti-griefing mods, we should instead embrace a policy of making certain our valuables are easy to get to by relying upon security through obscurity, which happens to be a scientifically proven method. Who cares if some people feel better about locking their valuables up. Their opinions are secondary to yours. If they were valuable members of the community, they would already share your viewpoint.
Sarcasm and exaggerations doesn't serve to reinforce your point.
I like Lockette. Most of the time when I'm on a server that uses it, I do know the other players well enough to trust them. But it gives me a sense of security knowing my chests can't be opened.
I like Lockette. Most of the time when I'm on a server that uses it, I do know the other players well enough to trust them. But it gives me a sense of security knowing my chests can't be opened.
But can't you get the same sense of security from just hiding them in a very good place?
I wrote a giant post only to erase it and start over. The writing helping formulate and process my thoughts, I have discovered something that all servers seem to be lacking, yet all (more like a few) of you have expressed in your posts in one way or another.
Minecraft started out as the game where you can build and create things of your imagination. Going further, the integration of multiplayer made it possible for players to share their creations with others. Then came the survival servers. Small at first, mainly friends playing together. And it grew and grew until now.
Back then, I could imagine, things were different. Everyone worked together, and had fun, or went their seperate ways competing with eachother to build the best town, rarely having to worry about grief or theft.
Back then, minecraft SMP was about not spending the night alone, fighting alongside your friends, having adventures, working together to build amazing things.
Where has that gone? Now, you can survive just as easily as in SSP in SMP. No one needs anyone. People just go around stealing other's creations.
What can we do? If you really want players to have a good time, and really connect, then you need to make them need eachother. You need to make all of them depend on eachother for certain things, but be able to atleast continue slowly when they're gone. You need to make players share a chest, pooling their items and giving eachother swords and potions. You need to make them have a fierce want of playing with others, exploring and experiencing new things.
Wait... experiencing new things. We can all easily play SSP, correct? We go to SMP to play with others. Who wants to play survival, just with other people lagging in the background? Why not create a fully NEW multiplayer experience? Full of wonders, mystery, and challenges that SSP doesn't have to offer? Giant dungeons, capable of only being taken down with a group of friends. More mobs or more powerful mobs, able to do more things and get in more places? Make it so you have to fortify and defend, and count on eachother, trust eachother. So no one can just run off with your things. Imagine, special actions a team can do, to get places, or get better effects on things? Useful and needed ores that can only be mined with the help of friends?
THESE THINGS ARE WHAT CONNECTS US.
So go ahead, lock your chests, your doors, and close your curtains. Watch as player shadows slip across the landscape. Or, open your doors and share your chests. Experience the world with others. A world where you need to stick together. A world that isn't so fun without people there to back you up. A world where you need eachother to survive. Make it a challenge. It's your world guys, so go make it.
That really had nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Me? I was kind of responding to when someone said that when you put lockette on, it tells the community, we don't trust you, you have no hope, im going to put this nanny here to watch you because i dont feel like youre worth it and talking about it is futile. That was part of the idea that they said. That when you put lockette on, people trust eachother less than more. My post is about responding saying that we wouldn't have trust issues if everyone had to rely on eachother. We wouldn't have so much griefing if we needed to help eachother out and were preoccupied a lot of the time. You would trust eachother or fail.
And really it comes to a middle ground. Everyone wants to have some sort of peril involved, but no one wants to be so close they are griefed and have everything stolen from them. Everyone wants their chests safe, but everyone is always looking to steal. It isn't really fair that you can spend hours building a base and then have someone with a wood pick come in and steal everything you've worked for, then grief it to hell.
So what do we do? That's where my post comes in. It explains that if you just had the community be a commnunity and need eachother to succeed you wouldn't have these problems. You'd make new friends and have loads of fun, all while experiencing something new. Of course you'd probably have teams of griefers come in, but whitelist would stem most of them, and at the scale I'm thinking, no one is going to last long going around at night or even day trying to take things.
All in all: responding to- lockette makes the community lose trust and is a useless and annoying tool. It makes people who quit leave their resources forever, to someone who really needs it. It tells people that there is no hope and trust in the server, that they must lock everything to be safe, and that the admins don't care or rely on something to watch them. And the response was: give back that trust by connecting people. If they rely on eachother to survive then by damn they will share a chest. Give the players a reason to not steal 24/7, and not have to lock everything.
Do you understand now? Or do I need to explain more?
It saddens me when I see it destroy Vanilla servers relentlessly with it's promises of safety and solitude.
It saddens me when I see it destroy PvP servers ruthlessly with it's unwanted protection and limitations.
Reasons why I hate it:
1. There is always, always, always, always, the extremely easy and secure method to just hide your chests. Smelt some cobble, go in your mine, put your valuables in there, cover the hole, and walk away a happy man. So, basically, it's not necessary. It's a plugin for lazy and unmotivated players.
2. If you need lockette, you should be on a server with people who steal. If there's people who steal on your server, you're probably on a PvP server. If you're on a PvP server, stealing should be allowed and encouraged!
3. If you're worried about people stealing and absolutely refuse to hide chests, then build your house/castle/whateverpeoplebuildthesedays 100000000000000 blocks away or whatever distance you silly worriers desire. What's that? Still want to play with others? Only invite the most trusted players to your location. Griefers won't know your location, and even if they do figure out, they will not want to walk for hours to get to you. They'll move on to a more easily griefable server.
4. People put it on their vanilla servers and continue to call it vanilla. Guess what? You just poured chocolate syrup all over that tasty French vanilla.
5. It limits community and cooperation. If you live in a town and Bob needs to borrow something out of your lockette'd chest and you're far away exploring, he has to wait for you to get back so you can get those ender pearls out for him. Yeah, I know you can put multiple names on a chest, but that is inconvenient, limiting, and exclusive.
6. It takes away from the Minecraft experience as a whole. If someone finds a house and wants to look what's inside, why the hell shouldn't they be allowed to go through the front door? If they really want to, they can smash their way in. Let them walk through the door. Locking doors has to be the stupidest part of the plugin.
7. It destroys unused resources. Countless players quit and stop playing on servers. Yet, their chests will remain locked forever, full of great resources that new and active players could use to better themselves. Basically, without lockette, you can recycle. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
That has to be the funniest thing I've read all day.
Hahahah wow, and here I was getting ready for everyone to do the opposite. Thanks.
As I've always said, I agree with you fully.
Crap... it's 12:25 am and you have just made me want to find a vanilla pvp server...
I see it on pubby servers where there's a lot of rules, structure, hierarchy etc. but not much enforcing. The admins are swamped and they're hoping the software will do some of the moderating for them. Unfortunately plugins like Lockette aren't very smart, and are easily circumvented by hacks. At the same time, they add to the workload for honest players and discourage cooperative building.
The kinds of theft Lockette prevents are not the major threat to servers. Opportunistic petty larceny is widespread and somewhat annoying. It's hard to catch because these are otherwise self-restrained players who find themselves poking about in chests that aren't theirs, see a large quantity of supplies, and skim a few off the top.
That said, these players account for the majority of players everywhere. The ones you trust on a day-to-day basis to build, interact, and make the server fun. They're the guys who top the leaderboard in sales, but steal paperclips and pens and notepads and whatnot from the office. They're a net asset to the community by a wide margin, larceny notwithstanding. A constant undercurrent of petty larceny and extended "borrowing" can make you crai.
The odd thing is, you install Lockette and the community is no longer based on trust. The message you send by activating these sorts of nanny plugins is twofold: 1) Trust is deteriorating in our community and 2) I don't feel it's worth my time as admin to watch people, use my judgment about your conduct, so I'll install this nanny thing instead. It says "I don't know you people anymore. I can't talk to you about this, we can't have a frank discussion. So here's an automated alarm system."
The only time it's really worth the trouble to maintain it is when one or a few players have a serious hate-on for one another and are waging a cold war of blatant thievery and blaming others for it. You use lockette to stop the feud and identify the players responsible, and cut them out of the community. Then you disable it and proceed with the remaining folks just chillaxing in your newly detrolled server.
As for hiding chests, this is generally good counsel but if your server has such a pervasive theft problem that Lockette starts looking good, hiding chests will only hinder the petty thieves. It will do nothing against the Xrayers and client hackers, many of whom also have hacks to circumvent Lockette. It's the "ban firearms" dilemma all over again. You're just adding environmental pressure for determined trolls and skiddies to lame hacks.
The only time I'll join a vanilla server is if it has anti cheat for x-ray textures and mods, flying, speedhack, etc.
I honestly cant wait until notch makes it practically impossible for clients to be made.
GODDAMN IT
STUPID GENDERFLIP VIRUS
You're right. If people get rid of the locks on their doors, and start trusting each other, crime will vanish and the entire human race will suddenly become trustworthy.
Instead of using Lockette or other anti-griefing mods, we should instead embrace a policy of making certain our valuables are easy to get to by relying upon security through obscurity, which happens to be a scientifically proven method. Who cares if some people feel better about locking their valuables up. Their opinions are secondary to yours. If they were valuable members of the community, they would already share your viewpoint.
It hides it from legit players, unless they happen to see it in an unloaded chunk. Non-legit players will find it in no time.
2. If you need lockette, you should be on a server with people who steal. If there's people who steal on your server, you're probably on a PvP server. If you're on a PvP server, stealing should be allowed and encouraged!
Server rules are up to the server, pvp does not guarantee theft being appropriate.
3. If you're worried about people stealing and absolutely refuse to hide chests, then build your house/castle/whateverpeoplebuildthesedays 100000000000000 blocks away or whatever distance you silly worriers desire.
lol, meaning go to the max distance and make your base. Yes that can help a fair amount.
4. People put it on their vanilla servers and continue to call it vanilla. Guess what? You just poured chocolate syrup all over that tasty French vanilla.
It's still vanilla style, strawberries make vanilla better.
5. It limits community and cooperation. If you live in a town and Bob needs to borrow something out of your lockette'd chest and you're far away exploring, he has to wait for you to get back so you can get those ender pearls out for him. Yeah, I know you can put multiple names on a chest, but that is inconvenient, limiting, and exclusive.
Make a community chest with multiple peoples names on it.
From an admin standpoint with regards to lockette the infinite uses is a larger issue. The double door ability was rather nice though. Personally love lwc, can limit uses and even force people to use passwords. Some folks use simple passwords making theft entertaining.
Latest MC video (forum link): http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/show-your-creation/videos/lets-plays/2390805
1. Every server should have anti-hacking plugins that will resolve this.
2. A good PvP server would allow stealing or there's really no point to PvPing other than being annoying. In my PvP server that I play on, I literally only carry a sword and two bread because I know I can die at any time. That's not a good incentive for people to kill me in the wilderness. The incentive is ideally the fact that if they find my base, I lose everything.
3. Or however far you want. It's up to you. Go to a distance you feel comfortable.
4. What the hell is vanilla style? No. Just no.
5. I like how you're so dependent on lockette that you'd go as far as to put multiple names on a community chest. You know, there is the option to put no Lockette sign on things.
Glad you find stealing an amusing and care-free topic "from an admin standpoint."
Sarcasm and exaggerations doesn't serve to reinforce your point.
But can't you get the same sense of security from just hiding them in a very good place?
The think is that it doesent mater how good you hide your chest, x-rayers WILL find it.
And even if ths server have anti x-ray then you can just use the zombe's cheat mod and c trought every block you want to locate some chests.
There's anti-every cheat mod.
Minecraft started out as the game where you can build and create things of your imagination. Going further, the integration of multiplayer made it possible for players to share their creations with others. Then came the survival servers. Small at first, mainly friends playing together. And it grew and grew until now.
Back then, I could imagine, things were different. Everyone worked together, and had fun, or went their seperate ways competing with eachother to build the best town, rarely having to worry about grief or theft.
Back then, minecraft SMP was about not spending the night alone, fighting alongside your friends, having adventures, working together to build amazing things.
Where has that gone? Now, you can survive just as easily as in SSP in SMP. No one needs anyone. People just go around stealing other's creations.
What can we do? If you really want players to have a good time, and really connect, then you need to make them need eachother. You need to make all of them depend on eachother for certain things, but be able to atleast continue slowly when they're gone. You need to make players share a chest, pooling their items and giving eachother swords and potions. You need to make them have a fierce want of playing with others, exploring and experiencing new things.
Wait... experiencing new things. We can all easily play SSP, correct? We go to SMP to play with others. Who wants to play survival, just with other people lagging in the background? Why not create a fully NEW multiplayer experience? Full of wonders, mystery, and challenges that SSP doesn't have to offer? Giant dungeons, capable of only being taken down with a group of friends. More mobs or more powerful mobs, able to do more things and get in more places? Make it so you have to fortify and defend, and count on eachother, trust eachother. So no one can just run off with your things. Imagine, special actions a team can do, to get places, or get better effects on things? Useful and needed ores that can only be mined with the help of friends?
THESE THINGS ARE WHAT CONNECTS US.
So go ahead, lock your chests, your doors, and close your curtains. Watch as player shadows slip across the landscape. Or, open your doors and share your chests. Experience the world with others. A world where you need to stick together. A world that isn't so fun without people there to back you up. A world where you need eachother to survive. Make it a challenge. It's your world guys, so go make it.
Me? I was kind of responding to when someone said that when you put lockette on, it tells the community, we don't trust you, you have no hope, im going to put this nanny here to watch you because i dont feel like youre worth it and talking about it is futile. That was part of the idea that they said. That when you put lockette on, people trust eachother less than more. My post is about responding saying that we wouldn't have trust issues if everyone had to rely on eachother. We wouldn't have so much griefing if we needed to help eachother out and were preoccupied a lot of the time. You would trust eachother or fail.
And really it comes to a middle ground. Everyone wants to have some sort of peril involved, but no one wants to be so close they are griefed and have everything stolen from them. Everyone wants their chests safe, but everyone is always looking to steal. It isn't really fair that you can spend hours building a base and then have someone with a wood pick come in and steal everything you've worked for, then grief it to hell.
So what do we do? That's where my post comes in. It explains that if you just had the community be a commnunity and need eachother to succeed you wouldn't have these problems. You'd make new friends and have loads of fun, all while experiencing something new. Of course you'd probably have teams of griefers come in, but whitelist would stem most of them, and at the scale I'm thinking, no one is going to last long going around at night or even day trying to take things.
All in all: responding to- lockette makes the community lose trust and is a useless and annoying tool. It makes people who quit leave their resources forever, to someone who really needs it. It tells people that there is no hope and trust in the server, that they must lock everything to be safe, and that the admins don't care or rely on something to watch them. And the response was: give back that trust by connecting people. If they rely on eachother to survive then by damn they will share a chest. Give the players a reason to not steal 24/7, and not have to lock everything.
Do you understand now? Or do I need to explain more?