Who else thinks it is a good idea to dramatically change survival mode so that more environmental hazards are introduced in the Overworld and so a new thirst mechanic is added so hydration matters and that players need to drink water to aid their survival?
Here is how I believe it ought to work, but first allow me to explain.
Part of the reason why I'd like this to happen is so it revamps how the armour system works, so players need to be more careful how they choose the armour they are wearing, and that if they want maximum protection against hazards from the environment, then they may have to forgo their combat armour, at least temporarily, so they can delay the negative effects of certain biomes.
Minecraft Overworld biomes can be separated into 3 categories. Extreme cold, neutral and extreme hot.
Examples of extreme hot biomes would be mesa, jungle, savanna and regular desert
Examples of neutral would be mushroom field biome, the warm ocean, forests and plains
examples of extreme cold could be mountain (peak only), taiga, tundra and ice spikes.
If players are inhabiting the extreme hot biomes, they would then need to be wearing either nothing or a new armour type, or should I say, "clothing", that is made from cotton, which is a breathable fabric that will help slow down the dehydrating effects of the heat, and so their thirst meter doesn't drain all the way down too quickly.
If hydration reaches zero points, which can be done in a single day in a mesa if players are not careful, then players should suffer a continuous mining fatigue effect until they drink water, meaning they would now have to carry a bottle with them and refill it with water everywhere they go.
If players are inhabiting neutral biomes, hydration drains at a normal rate, they can go up to 4 in game days without water before hydration becomes an issue for them, but otherwise it does not matter what they are wearing, they can be wearing full netherite gear or cotton, and their hydration would drain all the same.
If players are inhabiting extreme cold biomes, players will have a different problem here, while hydration drains normally, they will now have to worry about extreme cold causing loss of body heat, represented in a number 98, draining one per second, until it eventually reaches 0, giving players a maximum of 1 minute and 38 seconds before they suffer a continuous slowness effect.
To counteract this, players have a simple tool at their disposal, either wear cotton or leather armour, leather already exists in the game, now it will be given a valid use even in late game. If players have neither of these, then their only other option is either to migrate to a warmer biome, or set up heat sources such as a campfire, normal fire or lava. Campfires can be used to restore body heat if players are within an 8 block radius of the flame, same thing with other types of fires, where as lava could warm the player up if they are within 16 blocks of the heat source.
Additional notes to mention.
The Nether will not have any impact on this according to my suggestion, this is purely a mechanic for the Overworld to improve the armour system and make it much less overpowered, Hydration should not drain any quicker if players are in the Nether, I could see this being too inconvenient or annoying for players, so I feel the Nether should have no impact on how quickly players lose hydration, 4 in game days should be the maximum they can go without water before mining fatigue becomes an issue, which is a total of 1 hour and 20 minutes, plenty of time for bartering with Piglin for a water bottle, or making a pitstop out of the Nether and in the Overworld to grab water from a pond, river or well.
This temperature, thirst/hydration and climate mechanic should not be forced on easy or peaceful difficulty, I believe for those who can't handle or don't want this feature, they can have the option to turn this off, but on easy or peaceful only.
Players who are underground can be immune to the effects of hot or cold weather in the game in the Overworld, but only at Y 30 or below,
and if they are not too close to an exposed ravine, how Mojang would program this I am not exactly sure.
Please don't take this the wrong way, this is not an attack against anyone, this is merely a suggestion, you may agree or you may disagree,
however if you disagree please explain why, and give alternatives that you believe are better, I'd appreciate it, or if you don't want to discuss it, you're free to not discuss this either. Have a pleasant life all.
2. I noticed that Mojang rather than adding biome-related hazards to the player in direct form, instead condenses them in form of unique mobs - for example Husk representing the desolation and food scarcity in the desert, or Stray being the reflection of bitter cold.
Personally I like the direction they are taking and would - rather than adding completely new armor with very specialist purpose - expanded the specialist armor we have already. For example, gold armor became somewhat useful when going to the Nether due to Piglins. In spirit of that I'd propose to make environmental armor act as camouflage to mobs representing environmental hazards - for example strays would see players from 180% of normal skeleton detection radius, and each piece of leather armor worn could decease it by 20% each plus additional 30% if the leather armor is worn over the whole body or strays having slowness effect caused by arrows shortened. In similar vein, turtle helmet often called nearly useless could be made to decrease detection range of guardians and/or drowneds.
If there is something I'd like to see changed in terms of environment itself it should be mobs spawned or crop growth speed correlated to how appropriate the biome is for a certain plant - with lack or presence of sky light being indicator for plant whether it's in its biome or in artificial habitat, where growth rate should be constant for all.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Let's talk about the hydration thingy first. If it reaches zero, you only get mining fatigue?
In that case "thurst" could be a debuff inflicted by husks instead of hunger. That would be a perfect fit.
But thirst should only decrease when a player runs or jumps, like hunger. Just slower.
Imagine you dig yourself in and afk to survive a night and then try to painfully mine yourself out with mining fatigue.
It would be even worse in multiplayer, if you trap someone with obsidian and they don't have something to drink.
Now about the climate. It wouldn't make much sence for the desert to be hot during night.
That biome should have both extremes.
Great thread indeed. I support most of it.
if thirst killed players directly then it wouldn't be a well received decision, so instead having it cause a status effect which may lead to dying indirectly is the best course of action. The simple fact is a lot of people in the Minecraft community are not going to accept the challenge a true thirst mechanic would bring, even though there are other survival games that do have it. Perhaps thirst could be made to kill players in hardcore mode, but doing it on lower difficulties is likely going to cause backlash, so a compromise must be made here, and I've already thought of one, while giving water bottles another use besides just making potions and emptying to stack the bottles.
By the way, potions could be made to rehydrate players too, I forgot to add that detail in, but I do agree with this idea just in case
anyone is wondering.
Cold water close to or underneath Ice Spikes biomes can be made to kill players directly though if they are not wearing Frost Walker enchantment or don't have a conduit nearby, if players remain in it for too long via a new hypothermia status effect. You already have drowning, so why not this? a new potion could be introduced to make players temporarily immune to hypothermia status effect, frost resistance to be exact. Another way to survive in cold water can be to use magma blocks, and if players are within a given radius of them the water is warm enough to not cause hypothermia.
The Nether will not have any impact on this according to my suggestion, this is purely a mechanic for the Overworld to improve the armour system and make it much less overpowered, Hydration should not drain any quicker if players are in the Nether, I could see this being too inconvenient or annoying for players, so I feel the Nether should have no impact on how quickly players lose hydration, 4 in game days should be the maximum they can go without water before mining fatigue becomes an issue, which is a total of 1 hour and 20 minutes, plenty of time for bartering with Piglin for a water bottle, or making a pitstop out of the Nether and in the Overworld to grab water from a pond, river or well.
This temperature, thirst/hydration and climate mechanic should not be forced on easy or peaceful difficulty, I believe for those who can't handle or don't want this feature, they can have the option to turn this off, but on easy or peaceful only.
There are 2 problems left imo.
First the Nether. You explained well why the Nether shouldn't effect players, to not make the feature annoying.
My problem here is that a feature like this (or minecraft as a whole) should be logical in itself.
When the nether can't have a heating problem while overworld biomes can, people would call that bs.
Let's say the blue fungi biome is neutral. That would change things a bit. Nether is supposed to be hell anyway.
And for those who don't want that feature: gamerule
I don't know what i would do without the option to deactivate insomnia.
And phantoms are a small problem compared to your feature. It realy fit's just those who want a better survival challange.
Which is why i support.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
First the Nether. You explained well why the Nether shouldn't effect players, to not make the feature annoying.
My problem here is that a feature like this (or minecraft as a whole) should be logical in itself.
When the nether can't have a heating problem while overworld biomes can, people would call that bs.
Let's say the blue fungi biome is neutral. That would change things a bit. Nether is supposed to be hell anyway.
And for those who don't want that feature: gamerule
I don't know what i would do without the option to deactivate insomnia.
And phantoms are a small problem compared to your feature. It realy fit's just those who want a better survival challange.
Which is why i support.
The Nether is also a mystical realm, where normal rules may not apply, the entire concept of the Nether itself can be considered BS since there is no such thing as the underworld, but we just roll with it because it's Minecraft.
It is also implied that the passage of time is different inside the Nether compared to the Overworld, seeing as every 1 block you step is an equivalent of 8 blocks in the Overworld, meaning time is slower in the Nether, that is weird considering gravity inside the Nether is the same, so where is the time dilation effect coming from?
For the sake of better gameplay and the fact water doesn't exist in the Nether outside of Piglin bartering, I don't believe it would be a good idea to make dehydration happen faster in the Nether just because there is a lot of heat around. The fact water is much more scarce there, in every biome, is challenging enough imo.
The Nether is also a mystical realm, where normal rules may not apply, the entire concept of the Nether itself can be considered BS since there is no such thing as the underworld, but we just roll with it because it's Minecraft.
It is also implied that the passage of time is different inside the Nether compared to the Overworld, seeing as every 1 block you step is an equivalent of 8 blocks in the Overworld, meaning time is slower in the Nether, that is weird considering gravity inside the Nether is the same, so where is the time dilation effect coming from?
For the sake of better gameplay and the fact water doesn't exist in the Nether outside of Piglin bartering, I don't believe it would be a good idea to make dehydration happen faster in the Nether just because there is a lot of heat around. The fact water is much more scarce there, in every biome, is challenging enough imo.
A physician would probably want to kill me for this, but time isn't that big of a deal imo.
The clock & compass spin like crazy but the day counter continues. (would be problematic in multiplayer anyway)
There is just no sun & moon in the other dimensions.
It's not like you enter the nether unprepared. Barely anyone enters it without food.
If the nether would effect dehydration, the cauldron would actually become a useful block.
If you carry some waterbuckets +3 bottles with you, you can explore a lot. If time runs out, just build another portal and stock up water.
For the endgame travel, shulkerboxes could be another option. This would however limit transportation of other goods,
which would be the biggest problem for most ppl.
Altough dying and re-equiping to retrieve your lost stuff would become a massive pain too.
But i agree with you, the nether is a bs dimension. That could be an excuse for not making it effect dehydration.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
A physician would probably want to kill me for this, but time isn't that big of a deal imo.
The clock & compass spin like crazy but the day counter continues. (would be problematic in multiplayer anyway)
There is just no sun & moon in the other dimensions.
It's not like you enter the nether unprepared. Barely anyone enters it without food.
If the nether would effect dehydration, the cauldron would actually become a useful block.
If you carry some waterbuckets +3 bottles with you, you can explore a lot. If time runs out, just build another portal and stock up water.
For the endgame travel, shulkerboxes could be another option. This would however limit transportation of other goods,
which would be the biggest problem for most ppl.
Altough dying and re-equiping to retrieve your lost stuff would become a massive pain too.
But i agree with you, the nether is a bs dimension. That could be an excuse for not making it effect dehydration.
But when you add cauldrons to the list that is extra stuff to carry into the Nether, which means more inventory space required, presumably while stackable they'd also not have water already in them and would need to be filled, at each outpost inside the Nether.
Eventually, when you keep adding in extra stuff that players need to carry with them into other dimensions it negates the benefits of Shulker boxes. Shulker boxes only have 27 slots each, same thing with Ender Chest, which can have its effective total capacity expanded 27 times by Shulker boxes.
Not allowing the Nether speed up dehydration would help alleviate this problem, I don't like features becoming useless, nobody does.
This is why I am sceptical of some suggestions that nerf existing features in the game.
Who else thinks it is a good idea to dramatically change survival mode so that more environmental hazards are introduced in the Overworld and so a new thirst mechanic is added so hydration matters and that players need to drink water to aid their survival?
Here is how I believe it ought to work, but first allow me to explain.
Part of the reason why I'd like this to happen is so it revamps how the armour system works, so players need to be more careful how they choose the armour they are wearing, and that if they want maximum protection against hazards from the environment, then they may have to forgo their combat armour, at least temporarily, so they can delay the negative effects of certain biomes.
Minecraft Overworld biomes can be separated into 3 categories. Extreme cold, neutral and extreme hot.
Examples of extreme hot biomes would be mesa, jungle, savanna and regular desert
Examples of neutral would be mushroom field biome, the warm ocean, forests and plains
examples of extreme cold could be mountain (peak only), taiga, tundra and ice spikes.
If players are inhabiting the extreme hot biomes, they would then need to be wearing either nothing or a new armour type, or should I say, "clothing", that is made from cotton, which is a breathable fabric that will help slow down the dehydrating effects of the heat, and so their thirst meter doesn't drain all the way down too quickly.
If hydration reaches zero points, which can be done in a single day in a mesa if players are not careful, then players should suffer a continuous mining fatigue effect until they drink water, meaning they would now have to carry a bottle with them and refill it with water everywhere they go.
If players are inhabiting neutral biomes, hydration drains at a normal rate, they can go up to 4 in game days without water before hydration becomes an issue for them, but otherwise it does not matter what they are wearing, they can be wearing full netherite gear or cotton, and their hydration would drain all the same.
If players are inhabiting extreme cold biomes, players will have a different problem here, while hydration drains normally, they will now have to worry about extreme cold causing loss of body heat, represented in a number 98, draining one per second, until it eventually reaches 0, giving players a maximum of 1 minute and 38 seconds before they suffer a continuous slowness effect.
To counteract this, players have a simple tool at their disposal, either wear cotton or leather armour, leather already exists in the game, now it will be given a valid use even in late game. If players have neither of these, then their only other option is either to migrate to a warmer biome, or set up heat sources such as a campfire, normal fire or lava. Campfires can be used to restore body heat if players are within an 8 block radius of the flame, same thing with other types of fires, where as lava could warm the player up if they are within 16 blocks of the heat source.
Additional notes to mention.
The Nether will not have any impact on this according to my suggestion, this is purely a mechanic for the Overworld to improve the armour system and make it much less overpowered, Hydration should not drain any quicker if players are in the Nether, I could see this being too inconvenient or annoying for players, so I feel the Nether should have no impact on how quickly players lose hydration, 4 in game days should be the maximum they can go without water before mining fatigue becomes an issue, which is a total of 1 hour and 20 minutes, plenty of time for bartering with Piglin for a water bottle, or making a pitstop out of the Nether and in the Overworld to grab water from a pond, river or well.
This temperature, thirst/hydration and climate mechanic should not be forced on easy or peaceful difficulty, I believe for those who can't handle or don't want this feature, they can have the option to turn this off, but on easy or peaceful only.
Players who are underground can be immune to the effects of hot or cold weather in the game in the Overworld, but only at Y 30 or below,
and if they are not too close to an exposed ravine, how Mojang would program this I am not exactly sure.
Please don't take this the wrong way, this is not an attack against anyone, this is merely a suggestion, you may agree or you may disagree,
however if you disagree please explain why, and give alternatives that you believe are better, I'd appreciate it, or if you don't want to discuss it, you're free to not discuss this either. Have a pleasant life all.
Let's talk about the hydration thingy first. If it reaches zero, you only get mining fatigue?
In that case "thurst" could be a debuff inflicted by husks instead of hunger. That would be a perfect fit.
But thirst should only decrease when a player runs or jumps, like hunger. Just slower.
Imagine you dig yourself in and afk to survive a night and then try to painfully mine yourself out with mining fatigue.
It would be even worse in multiplayer, if you trap someone with obsidian and they don't have something to drink.
Now about the climate. It wouldn't make much sence for the desert to be hot during night.
That biome should have both extremes.
Great thread indeed. I support most of it.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
1. Thirst concept will never see the daylight again. https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/360005029872-Previously-Considered-Suggestions
Game mechanics:
Thirst was discussed. The team indicated they would prefer to focus on hunger/hunger mechanics rather than add thirst/another mechanism with a similar focus. (13 December 2018)
2. I noticed that Mojang rather than adding biome-related hazards to the player in direct form, instead condenses them in form of unique mobs - for example Husk representing the desolation and food scarcity in the desert, or Stray being the reflection of bitter cold.
Personally I like the direction they are taking and would - rather than adding completely new armor with very specialist purpose - expanded the specialist armor we have already. For example, gold armor became somewhat useful when going to the Nether due to Piglins. In spirit of that I'd propose to make environmental armor act as camouflage to mobs representing environmental hazards - for example strays would see players from 180% of normal skeleton detection radius, and each piece of leather armor worn could decease it by 20% each plus additional 30% if the leather armor is worn over the whole body or strays having slowness effect caused by arrows shortened. In similar vein, turtle helmet often called nearly useless could be made to decrease detection range of guardians and/or drowneds.
If there is something I'd like to see changed in terms of environment itself it should be mobs spawned or crop growth speed correlated to how appropriate the biome is for a certain plant - with lack or presence of sky light being indicator for plant whether it's in its biome or in artificial habitat, where growth rate should be constant for all.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
if thirst killed players directly then it wouldn't be a well received decision, so instead having it cause a status effect which may lead to dying indirectly is the best course of action. The simple fact is a lot of people in the Minecraft community are not going to accept the challenge a true thirst mechanic would bring, even though there are other survival games that do have it. Perhaps thirst could be made to kill players in hardcore mode, but doing it on lower difficulties is likely going to cause backlash, so a compromise must be made here, and I've already thought of one, while giving water bottles another use besides just making potions and emptying to stack the bottles.
By the way, potions could be made to rehydrate players too, I forgot to add that detail in, but I do agree with this idea just in case
anyone is wondering.
Cold water close to or underneath Ice Spikes biomes can be made to kill players directly though if they are not wearing Frost Walker enchantment or don't have a conduit nearby, if players remain in it for too long via a new hypothermia status effect. You already have drowning, so why not this? a new potion could be introduced to make players temporarily immune to hypothermia status effect, frost resistance to be exact. Another way to survive in cold water can be to use magma blocks, and if players are within a given radius of them the water is warm enough to not cause hypothermia.
There are 2 problems left imo.
First the Nether. You explained well why the Nether shouldn't effect players, to not make the feature annoying.
My problem here is that a feature like this (or minecraft as a whole) should be logical in itself.
When the nether can't have a heating problem while overworld biomes can, people would call that bs.
Let's say the blue fungi biome is neutral. That would change things a bit. Nether is supposed to be hell anyway.
And for those who don't want that feature: gamerule
I don't know what i would do without the option to deactivate insomnia.
And phantoms are a small problem compared to your feature. It realy fit's just those who want a better survival challange.
Which is why i support.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
The Nether is also a mystical realm, where normal rules may not apply, the entire concept of the Nether itself can be considered BS since there is no such thing as the underworld, but we just roll with it because it's Minecraft.
It is also implied that the passage of time is different inside the Nether compared to the Overworld, seeing as every 1 block you step is an equivalent of 8 blocks in the Overworld, meaning time is slower in the Nether, that is weird considering gravity inside the Nether is the same, so where is the time dilation effect coming from?
For the sake of better gameplay and the fact water doesn't exist in the Nether outside of Piglin bartering, I don't believe it would be a good idea to make dehydration happen faster in the Nether just because there is a lot of heat around. The fact water is much more scarce there, in every biome, is challenging enough imo.
A physician would probably want to kill me for this, but time isn't that big of a deal imo.
The clock & compass spin like crazy but the day counter continues. (would be problematic in multiplayer anyway)
There is just no sun & moon in the other dimensions.
It's not like you enter the nether unprepared. Barely anyone enters it without food.
If the nether would effect dehydration, the cauldron would actually become a useful block.
If you carry some waterbuckets +3 bottles with you, you can explore a lot. If time runs out, just build another portal and stock up water.
For the endgame travel, shulkerboxes could be another option. This would however limit transportation of other goods,
which would be the biggest problem for most ppl.
Altough dying and re-equiping to retrieve your lost stuff would become a massive pain too.
But i agree with you, the nether is a bs dimension. That could be an excuse for not making it effect dehydration.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
But when you add cauldrons to the list that is extra stuff to carry into the Nether, which means more inventory space required, presumably while stackable they'd also not have water already in them and would need to be filled, at each outpost inside the Nether.
Eventually, when you keep adding in extra stuff that players need to carry with them into other dimensions it negates the benefits of Shulker boxes. Shulker boxes only have 27 slots each, same thing with Ender Chest, which can have its effective total capacity expanded 27 times by Shulker boxes.
Not allowing the Nether speed up dehydration would help alleviate this problem, I don't like features becoming useless, nobody does.
This is why I am sceptical of some suggestions that nerf existing features in the game.