They're complicating matters to decomplicate matters for themselves, essentially. The SSP and SMP systems were two entirely separated databases of code, essentially requiring each piece of code to be written twice. This was a mistake by Notch, and now they're rectifying it.
They've actually just acknowledged that as an issue for the first time on the page for the new snapshot. Everyone's uncle on here thought that an increase in framerate meant that it was consuming less processing power, which doesn't really grok. We also saw numerous technical "explanations" for how running a server wouldn't consume more processing power. It was bunk. They made it sound as though they will figure something out before 1.3 is actually released.
That's not really a logical concern, beyond that, people looking to play with one or two friends aren't the same kind of people that would search out the kind of "MMO" experience that you're talking about. You're only going to be rid of negligent players, rather than people who might contribute.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Statistics show that people who tell others they need to get a new computer are twice as likely to use "gay" as a negative descriptor and will most likely never see genitals in real life, at least while not in prison.
1. Have you ever heard this "If it aint broke don't fix it" Minecraft has run fine up to this point on 2 separate entities, client and server. Nothing was wrong with that so why complicate matters?
2. This will make the MC users with already laggy or bad games lag EVEN WORSE because as someone who runs a server, i know what its like to have to RUN THE SERVER, people who want to play singleplayer shouldn't need to deal with running the server to do so.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time.
Opinions?
1. There are a lot of people who would disagree with that.
2. This is being worked on
3. What's the issue here? Everyone being able to run one means you won't need a large server, which means less money to spend
I'm fairly certain that the merge is NOTHING but improvement! I've experienced no increase of lag or drop of frame rate due specifically to the merge of Client and Server Logic. It also makes modding a heck of a lot easier for modders. And I can't wait to see what is made of the "modding API" soon to come in 1.4.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time.
This is entirely wrong. Everyone already has the ability to host minecraft with minecraft_server.exe. It makes no difference if single player can host a server, the difference is its on LAN only. No one outside your internet connection can connect, so if anything only you and your friends or family could even join, no one else. This has no effect on server hosters to begin with. Don't get me wrong, just the Single player hosting wont ruin things for you or anyone, you just gotta do something that makes people want to join your server.
Running a server isn't resource demanding at all, it doesn't affect performance unless your PC is ****. I just hope they fix the ssp lag, altough it isn't that bad at all.
Interesting thing here.... I'm one of the people that has been complaining about the merge, and how badly it could screw up SSP. But here's some info that people probably don't realize:
I am NOT actually against the merge.
I am actually FOR the merge.
The key is that I am for not doing it until they can get SSP to run as smoothly as it does now. The problem is that they aren't going to be able to do that without fixing all the bugs that have been plaguing SMP since the dawn of time, and (as awesome as that would be) that's not going to be an easy task. So I foresee one of two things happening... They will either:
1) Wait until they have everything in SSP running as well as it did before the merge (which would be my ideal, but would mean we won't see 1.3 released until about 2014)
2) Get it "sort of" working, and push the release anyway (which means all of the worst bugs of SMP -- the hardest ones to fix -- will now be in SSP).
Any complaining I do is based on the fact that I'm willing to bet that we get stuck with #2.
I have no idea why this is brought up time and time again in different topics. Nothing the TC has opinionated in this topic hasn't already been stated and explained in others, this is just getting redundant.
Ok, I know this topic has been brought up a lot, and it seems to be very split on reactions. Personally - I am against the merge; but i know people who are all for it so I'm going to list why I THINK the merge shouldn't happen. Agree, or have something to add? great leave a comment, Don't agree? tell me why you think it's good.
Ok my reasons.
1. Have you ever heard this "If it aint broke don't fix it" Minecraft has run fine up to this point on 2 separate entities, client and server. Nothing was wrong with that so why complicate matters?
2. This will make the MC users with already laggy or bad games lag EVEN WORSE because as someone who runs a server, i know what its like to have to RUN THE SERVER, people who want to play singleplayer shouldn't need to deal with running the server to do so.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time.
Opinions?
1: Before the merge fixing bugs was over complicated for Mojang and mod makers(if the mod was SSP and SMP). It was basically like programming two different games. Now its easier for everyone. In the long run nothing will be over complicated.
2: People playing single player won't have to manage the server. It'll be exactly like before the merge. Just load a world and go.
3: Before the merge people could still host their own servers off the same PCs they play MC on. Nothing is really gonna change since a lot of people don't have decent enough computers to host and play or the internet for it(sometimes both).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm usually not trying to be rude. So if a post comes across that way then sorry :]
I have no idea why this is brought up time and time again in different topics. Nothing the TC has opinionated in this topic hasn't already been stated and explained in others, this is just getting redundant.
You must be new here. Welcome to the Minecraft official forums. Enjoy your stay.
I'm fairly certain that the merge is NOTHING but improvement! I've experienced no increase of lag or drop of frame rate due specifically to the merge of Client and Server Logic. It also makes modding a heck of a lot easier for modders. And I can't wait to see what is made of the "modding API" soon to come in 1.4.
Have you actually played the snapshot, or are you just trying to live in a state of denial defending the merge?
I like the goals of the merge, and some of the benefits it brings. I'm all for the merge. But as Divinius said, 1.3 isn't going to be some shiny, bug-free update. There will be alot of bugs in the future.
Hitbox errors, chunk errors, slow rendering, graphical errors, have all been a problem since SMP was added, and they still aren't fixed. So don't expect these to be fixed with a snap of the fingers.
I'm all for the merge, but anybody who wants a bug-free SSP experience better stick to 1.2.5. I'm going to play both 1.2.5 and the most recent versions until Mojang gets SSP working good. But I'll go ahead and estimate that won't happen for another 2-3 updates, at best. If it takes them any longer than 2-3 updates, the goal of the merge will have been failed and the whole thing will be pointless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
1. Have you ever heard this "If it aint broke don't fix it" Minecraft has run fine up to this point on 2 separate entities, client and server. Nothing was wrong with that so why complicate matters?
Something was wrong. The split codebase was making adding new features and fixing bugs more difficult than it needed to be.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time.
This is just silly. It's a back-end change to the game. People who play MP aren't going to play by themselves on their own servers now. If they're playing MP, it's because they want to be on a shared world. The merge isn't going to change that. Running a server will still require bandwidth, a computer running 24/7, and a powerful enough system to handle all of the players. The merge isn't going to change that either- it might make doing the set-up for a server marginally easier, but you won't see some huge influx of people starting their own.
Ok, I know this topic has been brought up a lot, and it seems to be very split on reactions. Personally - I am against the merge; but i know people who are all for it so I'm going to list why I THINK the merge shouldn't happen. Agree, or have something to add? great leave a comment, Don't agree? tell me why you think it's good.
Ok my reasons.
1. Have you ever heard this "If it aint broke don't fix it" Minecraft has run fine up to this point on 2 separate entities, client and server. Nothing was wrong with that so why complicate matters?
2. This will make the MC users with already laggy or bad games lag EVEN WORSE because as someone who runs a server, i know what its like to have to RUN THE SERVER, people who want to play singleplayer shouldn't need to deal with running the server to do so.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time.
Opinions?
1: It doesn't complicate matters, it simplifies them. Instead of them having to code things twice, one for ssp and one for smp, they only have to code it once.
2: You don't have to run a server in singleplayer, thus no lag.
3: People will still go to servers that they like for multiplayer. Example, two friends who want to play together no long has to pay. Large servers, like rp servers, will still get players because people would only be able to have like 5 people on local servers.
Ok, I know this topic has been brought up a lot, and it seems to be very split on reactions. Personally - I am against the merge; but i know people who are all for it so I'm going to list why I THINK the merge shouldn't happen. Agree, or have something to add? great leave a comment, Don't agree? tell me why you think it's good.
Ok my reasons.
1. Have you ever heard this "If it aint broke don't fix it" Minecraft has run fine up to this point on 2 separate entities, client and server. Nothing was wrong with that so why complicate matters? Yes, to you, nothing was wrong because you're not making the game, or making mods. And I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this merge will help them maintain the code base and fix bugs faster. Most likely the only reason why it took so long was because everyone focuses on single player and so thats what Jeb tried to do.
2. This will make the MC users with already laggy or bad games lag EVEN WORSE because as someone who runs a server, i know what its like to have to RUN THE SERVER, people who want to play singleplayer shouldn't need to deal with running the server to do so. Its funny that you say that because I do run a server (Of course, on a separate machine) and yes, it usually does slow down things, however, I have played today's snapshot and it runs the same and sometimes even better for me. This is coming from someone who gets around 15-25 FPS.
3. Lastly, as a server owner - who pays for hosting as of now, i want as many people to come to my server as possible - After all i pay money for it so i want people to enjoy it at least. Having everyone able to run a server could be totally destroying it for us who have run servers for a long long time. Paying for a server doesn't guarantee you players. Everybody has the same rights as you to run their own servers, the same thing happens in real life with stores, just because a target opens, doesn't mean a walmart is forbidden to open next to it. And, the built in server is for LAN.
Opinions?
My Opinions.
-----------------------------Everything below this line applies to the more then the OP------------------------------------ I think people really need to stop spreading propaganda about this, most of the people saying this crap is just hearing what everyone else says, trying to be "cool" about it. Well guess what, it's happening and it isn't going to change.
This isn't directed to any particular person, but it's happening to a lot of people.
No one is forcing you to update, so stay on 1.2.5 if you don't like what's changing.
I have been playing the most recent snapshot and I have went up from about 80fps on far to 120 fps on far w/ and w/o a published server (not sure if this affects anything). I haven't experienced any unusual hit-box errors. I have seen the occasional wheat lag, but other than that I have not experienced any serious "OMG I can't play anymore because my experience has been ruined" bugs or lag.
Like the meme says "Don't look directly at the bugs!" and you won't have a BF.
Off topic: Enchanting has been vastly improved IMO due to the fact that when starting a new world you can get to level 30 in about an hour, hour 1/2 tops with say 3/4 a stack of coal, but to get to level 60 you need to spend an additional maybe four hours (not sure about amount of coal) of straight mining. This is because of the curve of the xp. I won't go into more detail, but you can see the curve of the xp yourself by going into creative and spamming xp bottles at your feet by holding right click to measure the time it takes to level from 0-30 then from 30-60... it is a big difference.
I have been playing the most recent snapshot and I have went up from about 80fps on far to 120 fps on far w/ and w/o a published server (not sure if this affects anything). I haven't experienced any unusual hit-box errors. I have seen the occasional wheat lag, but other than that I have not experienced any serious "OMG I can't play anymore because my experience has been ruined" bugs or lag.
Like the meme says "Don't look directly at the bugs!" and you won't have a BF.
Off topic: Enchanting has been vastly improved IMO due to the fact that when starting a new world you can get to level 30 in about an hour, hour 1/2 tops with say 3/4 a stack of coal, but to get to level 60 you need to spend an additional maybe four hours (not sure about amount of coal) of straight mining. This is because of the curve of the xp. I won't go into more detail, but you can see the curve of the xp yourself by going into creative and spamming xp bottles at your feet by holding right click to measure the time it takes to level from 0-30 then from 30-60... it is a big difference.
You get past the curve in creative by giving yourself xp in the command bar. Wait that is multiplayer only. Nvm. Yeah they need a better way to get levels in creative to test enchanting.
You get past the curve in creative by giving yourself xp in the command bar. Wait that is multiplayer only. Nvm. Yeah they need a better way to get levels in creative to test enchanting.
You already have unlimited levels in creative mode. That is, you don't need levels to enchant things.
Also, I'm tired of this topic. It's not like we have any real say in the matter anyway.
Those against will never generate enough outcry to stop the merge because there isn't enough support for them and it is already too far along. And the the others that are for the merge don't even need to be debating because they are getting what they want.
Anyone with any real technical knowledge knows that the merge is a very bad idea. A LOT of people play mindcraft on low end machines and a lot also only play SSP.. Regardless of what anyone might think, the merged minecraft will require more processing and memory. So not only will there be a ton of people that will no longer be able to play the game but all the primarily SSP people will be truly pissed off when they start to experience all the SMP type "glitches" that can never really be fixed because of it's very nature.. There is going to be a **** storm coming when they finally release it.
Anyone with any real technical knowledge knows that the merge is a very bad idea. A LOT of people play mindcraft on low end machines and a lot also only play SSP.. Regardless of what anyone might think, the merged minecraft will require more processing and memory. So not only will there be a ton of people that will no longer be able to play the game but all the primarily SSP people will be truly pissed off when they start to experience all the SMP type "glitches" that can never really be fixed because of it's very nature.. There is going to be a **** storm coming when they finally release it.
1: Technology is always getting better so older stuff is always getting cheaper. Its not hard to upgrade. You don't have to upgrade to a super amazing computer that can run Crysis 2 on max settings with no problem. You just need to upgrade enough to keep it out of the stone age(so to speak). RAM is really cheap and if you can barely run MC now then you probably have a **** processor. So it wouldn't be much to upgrade that as well since you're not on a good one trying to get a great one.
2: The SMP glitches haven't gotten fixed because it was taking forever to fix bugs that occurred in both SP and MP. And since those effect more people than just MP bugs. The SSP/SMP bugs get fixed before SMP specific bugs(or at least that's what I'm assuming. It makes sense). Since the merge makes them one of the same. These bugs can now be fixed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm usually not trying to be rude. So if a post comes across that way then sorry :]
TRASH
They've actually just acknowledged that as an issue for the first time on the page for the new snapshot. Everyone's uncle on here thought that an increase in framerate meant that it was consuming less processing power, which doesn't really grok. We also saw numerous technical "explanations" for how running a server wouldn't consume more processing power. It was bunk. They made it sound as though they will figure something out before 1.3 is actually released.
That's not really a logical concern, beyond that, people looking to play with one or two friends aren't the same kind of people that would search out the kind of "MMO" experience that you're talking about. You're only going to be rid of negligent players, rather than people who might contribute.
1. There are a lot of people who would disagree with that.
2. This is being worked on
3. What's the issue here? Everyone being able to run one means you won't need a large server, which means less money to spend
This is entirely wrong. Everyone already has the ability to host minecraft with minecraft_server.exe. It makes no difference if single player can host a server, the difference is its on LAN only. No one outside your internet connection can connect, so if anything only you and your friends or family could even join, no one else. This has no effect on server hosters to begin with. Don't get me wrong, just the Single player hosting wont ruin things for you or anyone, you just gotta do something that makes people want to join your server.
i5 6600k 4.6ghz / MSI 280X / 8Gb 2666 DDR4 / Gigabyte Z170X-UD5 / TX550M / 500Gb 850 EVO / NZXT S340 / Corsair K65 / Corsair M60
I am NOT actually against the merge.
I am actually FOR the merge.
The key is that I am for not doing it until they can get SSP to run as smoothly as it does now. The problem is that they aren't going to be able to do that without fixing all the bugs that have been plaguing SMP since the dawn of time, and (as awesome as that would be) that's not going to be an easy task. So I foresee one of two things happening... They will either:
1) Wait until they have everything in SSP running as well as it did before the merge (which would be my ideal, but would mean we won't see 1.3 released until about 2014)
2) Get it "sort of" working, and push the release anyway (which means all of the worst bugs of SMP -- the hardest ones to fix -- will now be in SSP).
Any complaining I do is based on the fact that I'm willing to bet that we get stuck with #2.
1: Before the merge fixing bugs was over complicated for Mojang and mod makers(if the mod was SSP and SMP). It was basically like programming two different games. Now its easier for everyone. In the long run nothing will be over complicated.
2: People playing single player won't have to manage the server. It'll be exactly like before the merge. Just load a world and go.
3: Before the merge people could still host their own servers off the same PCs they play MC on. Nothing is really gonna change since a lot of people don't have decent enough computers to host and play or the internet for it(sometimes both).
You must be new here. Welcome to the Minecraft official forums. Enjoy your stay.
Prepare to be disappointed.
Have you actually played the snapshot, or are you just trying to live in a state of denial defending the merge?
I like the goals of the merge, and some of the benefits it brings. I'm all for the merge. But as Divinius said, 1.3 isn't going to be some shiny, bug-free update. There will be alot of bugs in the future.
Hitbox errors, chunk errors, slow rendering, graphical errors, have all been a problem since SMP was added, and they still aren't fixed. So don't expect these to be fixed with a snap of the fingers.
I'm all for the merge, but anybody who wants a bug-free SSP experience better stick to 1.2.5. I'm going to play both 1.2.5 and the most recent versions until Mojang gets SSP working good. But I'll go ahead and estimate that won't happen for another 2-3 updates, at best. If it takes them any longer than 2-3 updates, the goal of the merge will have been failed and the whole thing will be pointless.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
Something was wrong. The split codebase was making adding new features and fixing bugs more difficult than it needed to be.
This is just silly. It's a back-end change to the game. People who play MP aren't going to play by themselves on their own servers now. If they're playing MP, it's because they want to be on a shared world. The merge isn't going to change that. Running a server will still require bandwidth, a computer running 24/7, and a powerful enough system to handle all of the players. The merge isn't going to change that either- it might make doing the set-up for a server marginally easier, but you won't see some huge influx of people starting their own.
1: It doesn't complicate matters, it simplifies them. Instead of them having to code things twice, one for ssp and one for smp, they only have to code it once.
2: You don't have to run a server in singleplayer, thus no lag.
3: People will still go to servers that they like for multiplayer. Example, two friends who want to play together no long has to pay. Large servers, like rp servers, will still get players because people would only be able to have like 5 people on local servers.
My Opinions.
-----------------------------Everything below this line applies to the more then the OP------------------------------------
I thinkpeople really need to stop spreading propaganda about this, most of the people saying this crap is just hearing what everyone else says, trying to be "cool" about it. Well guess what, it's happening and it isn't going to change.This isn't directed to any particular person, but it's happening to a lot of people.
No one is forcing you to update, so stay on 1.2.5 if you don't like what's changing.
Like the meme says "Don't look directly at the bugs!" and you won't have a BF.
Off topic: Enchanting has been vastly improved IMO due to the fact that when starting a new world you can get to level 30 in about an hour, hour 1/2 tops with say 3/4 a stack of coal, but to get to level 60 you need to spend an additional maybe four hours (not sure about amount of coal) of straight mining. This is because of the curve of the xp. I won't go into more detail, but you can see the curve of the xp yourself by going into creative and spamming xp bottles at your feet by holding right click to measure the time it takes to level from 0-30 then from 30-60... it is a big difference.
You get past the curve in creative by giving yourself xp in the command bar. Wait that is multiplayer only. Nvm. Yeah they need a better way to get levels in creative to test enchanting.
i5 6600k 4.6ghz / MSI 280X / 8Gb 2666 DDR4 / Gigabyte Z170X-UD5 / TX550M / 500Gb 850 EVO / NZXT S340 / Corsair K65 / Corsair M60
Also, I'm tired of this topic. It's not like we have any real say in the matter anyway.
Those against will never generate enough outcry to stop the merge because there isn't enough support for them and it is already too far along. And the the others that are for the merge don't even need to be debating because they are getting what they want.
1: Technology is always getting better so older stuff is always getting cheaper. Its not hard to upgrade. You don't have to upgrade to a super amazing computer that can run Crysis 2 on max settings with no problem. You just need to upgrade enough to keep it out of the stone age(so to speak). RAM is really cheap and if you can barely run MC now then you probably have a **** processor. So it wouldn't be much to upgrade that as well since you're not on a good one trying to get a great one.
2: The SMP glitches haven't gotten fixed because it was taking forever to fix bugs that occurred in both SP and MP. And since those effect more people than just MP bugs. The SSP/SMP bugs get fixed before SMP specific bugs(or at least that's what I'm assuming. It makes sense). Since the merge makes them one of the same. These bugs can now be fixed.