Specifically, though, I would like to clarify something. For those choosing truth, do you choose that because it makes you comfortable, or because it's the truth and both possibilities (comfort and discomfort) are possible? If so, do you really think you're choosing truth, or just a comfortable chunk of the truth?
I would rather have painful truth than live ignorant to the world.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
My opinions should be based off of fact, and if I am not told absolute fact, then I cannot form a correct opinion.(Correct used loosely to mean best informed)
*braces for everyone explaining exactly why i am wrong*
Specifically, though, I would like to clarify something. For those choosing truth, do you choose that because it makes you comfortable, or because it's the truth and both possibilities (comfort and discomfort) are possible? If so, do you really think you're choosing truth, or just a comfortable chunk of the truth?
Hmm, I don't think so. I usually like to know as much as I can, although, I will admit, I usually like to know these things because they, to a certain extent, make me feel more comfortable to know. The only things that I hesitate to learn about are specific situations of things like animal abuse, because those things make me feel really bad, but even then, I'd rather know about it.
The truth is good but not always appropriate.
"son, someone ran over your dog, that is him on the side of the road"
"don't suicide, things will get better"
"There is a man in the sky that controls your life, and makes sure everything has a reason you will never be informed of, even the death of your dog, which is still on the side of the road"
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join off topic IRC at #otter on esper.net, there is cake*
*there may or may not be cake
Information can be inherently discomforting. Think about nihilism. The purpose it serves is to tell you you don't have a purpose, everything doesn't have a purpose. Truth or not, the information it gives you is specifically designed to cause discomfort, not comfort.
Now, whether it's misleading is another story entirely. :wink.gif:
Well, nihilism is an example of something that is out of your hands to worry about. Whether or not it is believed, it is still your goal to achieve the most pleasure. "Oh well, I don't have a point. It shouldn't make a difference on me because it doesn't change anything but my state of mind now that I've heard and agree with it." I don't think that is really inherently discomforting.
Anyway, misleading information would be "each year, dihydrogen monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment." This is true, but unless further inquiry is taken, it will only hinder you by confusion (although admittedly, I guess that these kinds of issues wouldn't hamper a perfect human, so I guess one could discard this element from the list).
Anyway, I have to sleep now, after midnight here. I'll try return here in the morning.
The truth is good but not always appropriate.
"son, someone ran over your dog, that is him on the side of the road"
"don't suicide, things will get better"
"There is a man in the sky that controls your life, and makes sure everything has a reason you will never be informed of, even the death of your dog, which is still on the side of the road"
Okay, what if they never have to deal with any of that, then one day, when they're older and living on their own, something similar happens? They will be far more sensitive to the event, due to lack of experiencing anything like it before.
Well, nihilism is an example of something that is out of your hands to worry about. Whether or not it is believed, it is still your goal to achieve the most pleasure. "Oh well, I don't have a point. It shouldn't make a difference on me because it doesn't change anything but my state of mind now that I've heard and agree with it." I don't think that is really inherently discomforting.
It can bring comfort if you twist it's purpose. However, then you're misleading yourself, aren't you? :tongue.gif:
Anyway, misleading information would be "each year, dihydrogen monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment." This is true, but unless further inquiry is taken, it will only hinder you by confusion (although admittedly, I guess that these kinds of issues wouldn't hamper a perfect human, so I guess one could discard this element from the list).
Anyway, I have to sleep now, after midnight here. I'll try return here in the morning.
Yeah, that stupid chemical. They're all deadly, I tell you. We'd be better off without chemicals in our food and water.
Okay, what if they never have to deal with any of that, then one day, when they're older and living on their own, something similar happens? They will be far more sensitive to the event, due to lack of experiencing anything like it before.
I am not saying you never tell them and let them deal with it, it is just bad to tell them at a young age. you have to wait till they are older and more mature.
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join off topic IRC at #otter on esper.net, there is cake*
*there may or may not be cake
I am not saying you never tell them and let them deal with it, it is just bad to tell them at a young age. you have to wait till they are older and more mature.
Long story short, I hate the media but value the truth.
I think it is obvious that intellegent people value the truth, or a balance of it. As for the general public, I think that the media needs to lie to them. If a meteor was going to hit earth, society would collapse people would do what they want. If said meteor missed us, society would be gone, all thanks to the media. The media is also notorious for misinterpreting things. I recently read "Seal Team Six" by Howard Wadsin and Stephen Templin. In a section of the book, Mr. Wadsin was forced to throw flashbang grenades at a crowd of reporters to keep them from running straight into a firefight. The reporters said that Mr. Wadsin had thrown fragmentation grenades at them, and they were lucky to be alive. Mr. Wadsin then mentions that the grenades were so close, a single frag would have killed most of them. I understand that news is important, but the media needs to do a better job watching what is says.
Note: I highly reccomend the book "Seal Team Six" It is a fantastic book and gives a fantastic insight into what it takes to become a SEAL and what a hard life really is.
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After 10:30 PST, my IQ drops to around that of a shovel, please disregard anything I say after aforementioned time, it will likely not make any sense, and is best ignored.
If ignorance harms you, I would prefer truth.
If truth harms you too much and you would continue your life being perfectly happy and not doubting that thing, then I would prefer ignorance.
It can bring comfort if you twist it's purpose. However, then you're misleading yourself, aren't you? :tongue.gif:
Yeah, that stupid chemical. They're all deadly, I tell you. We'd be better off without chemicals in our food and water.
But.. but water is also a chemical compound. Pure H2O isn't even healthy, without all the ions in it.
I do understand your point, though. If I remember correctly, they even put fluoride in tap water in the UK (or Australia, one of those). Better for your teeth. But bad for the rest of your body. This is also why you should avoid swallowing toothpaste.
I have said it multiple times in other threads. I prefer truth; it allows for self-correction. Imagine a doctor who only told people that they were healthy and whatever affliction ails them is only temporary (to give them peace of mind). He would start to have a lot of dead patients. Unfortunately, with my OCD, some very depressing truths can act as fixation points for me and I tend to dwell on them.
If you are a Battletech/Mechwarrior geek you may enjoy my Timberwolf/MADCAT model (the source of my avatar) (warning: image-heavy link target) I will often edit my posts after I have posted them in an attempt to improve their clarity (I value a few high quality posts over several low quality ones; the more lengthy the post, the more time it requires to edit) so you might want to wait for a while if this post is recent and refresh to see if anything has changed before replying to it.
It can bring comfort if you twist it's purpose. However, then you're misleading yourself, aren't you? :tongue.gif:
Its purpose isn't really to make you feel bad as much as to clarify your place in this realm, is it? Since any piece of information to you can be ignored (if it's out of your control to change), and if it's good be used to your advantage, I'd argue that it's the perfect perspective's ultimate advantage to choose truth, which would always result in comfort.
I would rather have painful truth than live ignorant to the world.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
*braces for everyone explaining exactly why i am wrong*
I suppose you fit the truth option well, then.
You heard that, green and red.
Hmm, I don't think so. I usually like to know as much as I can, although, I will admit, I usually like to know these things because they, to a certain extent, make me feel more comfortable to know. The only things that I hesitate to learn about are specific situations of things like animal abuse, because those things make me feel really bad, but even then, I'd rather know about it.
"son, someone ran over your dog, that is him on the side of the road"
"don't suicide, things will get better"
"There is a man in the sky that controls your life, and makes sure everything has a reason you will never be informed of, even the death of your dog, which is still on the side of the road"
*there may or may not be cake
Well, nihilism is an example of something that is out of your hands to worry about. Whether or not it is believed, it is still your goal to achieve the most pleasure. "Oh well, I don't have a point. It shouldn't make a difference on me because it doesn't change anything but my state of mind now that I've heard and agree with it." I don't think that is really inherently discomforting.
Anyway, misleading information would be "each year, dihydrogen monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment." This is true, but unless further inquiry is taken, it will only hinder you by confusion (although admittedly, I guess that these kinds of issues wouldn't hamper a perfect human, so I guess one could discard this element from the list).
Anyway, I have to sleep now, after midnight here. I'll try return here in the morning.
Okay, what if they never have to deal with any of that, then one day, when they're older and living on their own, something similar happens? They will be far more sensitive to the event, due to lack of experiencing anything like it before.
It can bring comfort if you twist it's purpose. However, then you're misleading yourself, aren't you? :tongue.gif:
Yeah, that stupid chemical. They're all deadly, I tell you. We'd be better off without chemicals in our food and water.
You heard that, green and red.
I am not saying you never tell them and let them deal with it, it is just bad to tell them at a young age. you have to wait till they are older and more mature.
*there may or may not be cake
I suppose you're right in that sense.
I think it is obvious that intellegent people value the truth, or a balance of it. As for the general public, I think that the media needs to lie to them. If a meteor was going to hit earth, society would collapse people would do what they want. If said meteor missed us, society would be gone, all thanks to the media. The media is also notorious for misinterpreting things. I recently read "Seal Team Six" by Howard Wadsin and Stephen Templin. In a section of the book, Mr. Wadsin was forced to throw flashbang grenades at a crowd of reporters to keep them from running straight into a firefight. The reporters said that Mr. Wadsin had thrown fragmentation grenades at them, and they were lucky to be alive. Mr. Wadsin then mentions that the grenades were so close, a single frag would have killed most of them. I understand that news is important, but the media needs to do a better job watching what is says.
Note: I highly reccomend the book "Seal Team Six" It is a fantastic book and gives a fantastic insight into what it takes to become a SEAL and what a hard life really is.
If truth harms you too much and you would continue your life being perfectly happy and not doubting that thing, then I would prefer ignorance.
One of the reasons I HATE being in the dark.
But.. but water is also a chemical compound. Pure H2O isn't even healthy, without all the ions in it.
I do understand your point, though. If I remember correctly, they even put fluoride in tap water in the UK (or Australia, one of those). Better for your teeth. But bad for the rest of your body. This is also why you should avoid swallowing toothpaste.
I will often edit my posts after I have posted them in an attempt to improve their clarity (I value a few high quality posts over several low quality ones; the more lengthy the post, the more time it requires to edit) so you might want to wait for a while if this post is recent and refresh to see if anything has changed before replying to it.
The quote in my signature sums my view on it pretty well.
I also see parallels to Liar! in I, Robot. Would you rather always hear what comforts you, or the truth?
The Universe is cool enough without making up crap about it - Phil Plait
Its purpose isn't really to make you feel bad as much as to clarify your place in this realm, is it? Since any piece of information to you can be ignored (if it's out of your control to change), and if it's good be used to your advantage, I'd argue that it's the perfect perspective's ultimate advantage to choose truth, which would always result in comfort.