Well glad to see actual discussion occurred in this thread when I left for bed.
Something you may not know, is that people with cerebral palsy are people with pretty similar minds to us. They can have dreams. Goals. Viewpoints. But the condition is just so severe that they can't even walk. Can't hold a mug. Can't properly do anything, even though in their mind they could be thinking "I wish I could do this". She even says in the video that her dream for a few years now was that she could eventually drive a car.
I used to know a man with cerebral palsy when I was really young, he couldn't walk. He couldn't use his hands properly. He couldn't talk properly. But you know what? Because of the charity of other people, they gave him the opportunity to "give back to society" as you put it. With the money they raised for him, he became a popular comedian that would tour around to elementary schools and hospitals, showing people that even the ones who are capable of almost nothing, can still do something.
With the ethic problem of Africa and then this single girl, you have to look at the big picture. Right now, there is no cause based in Africa that actually changes the area for the better. Throwing a box of food at a bunch of African kids does NOT improve their life. They eat for a few days, and suddenly it's gone, and they're back to ground zero. That feeling feels worse than if they never got food to begin with. You'd be better off donating to the organization that builds wells, but even that doesn't make much difference. You pay over $3000 for a not-so-great well that will eventually break in a couple years and nobody will be around to fix it. Literally everything relief organizations do is a temporary fix, and once it's gone, it'll make the African people feel even worse. If there was an actual organization that changed things that were permanent or at least long term, then yeah, I'd say that's a more worthwhile investment as it helps more people, but right now the money you donate is very iffy. You'd be better off sponsoring African children, but even that is unreliable as most of those organizations are Christian and forcefully convert the children to Christianity or at least half of the money you donated just simply "disappears".
On the other hand, Ashley is a girl with the wish to be normal, like you and I. She needs $10, 000 to make the first step for a better life, and her grandmother sure as hell can't just simply start a penny jar and put all her pennies in it to save up. Not everybody has ten grand laying around. Literally, your comment saying that ten thousand dollars is a small sum of money just makes it seem like you've grown up in a life of extreme wealth where you could ask for a few thousand dollars and it'd be your allowance. Ten thousand dollars is a lot of money.
Also, insurance? They don't have insurance for diseases and the treatments involved. Well, they do in Canada, to a certain extent. They can do basic treatments and keep you going, but they simply don't have the funds to do the major treatments, that is why this entirely depends on the charity of others, even if it is spreading the message.
How is it the parents' fault? You can't just decide one day that your child will have a disease. That's ridiculous.
Right now I just think you're being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
The money could feed/clothe several african kids for years. They could be taught critical skills, and be able to get a job, or start a company, or improve the economy. They could give back to society.
The girl, while it is a touching case, will never give back to society. She will cost over 1,000,000 USD over her lifetime, and never contribute back anything. The truth is a cruel, harsh thing, but it's reality.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
I lost faith in humanity, why is this reported as advertising?
Because it is. Although a different type than most, but it is the same at it's core.
The world is a cruel, harsh place... Deal with it.
Charity -//- Commercial advertising
How about stop being cruel and help people instead of bitching about it.
Thank God somebody else agrees. I didn't want to get tangled up in this mess, for flamewars' sake. I also don't see this as advertising, and I'll happily help out :smile.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from ThatGuyCarth »
I love Blizzard, but god help me, WoW is a giant money engine that uses human souls as fuel.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
The money could feed/clothe several african kids for years. They could be taught critical skills, and be able to get a job, or start a company, or improve the economy. They could give back to society.
The girl, while it is a touching case, will never give back to society. She will cost over 1,000,000 USD over her lifetime, and never contribute back anything. The truth is a cruel, harsh thing, but it's reality.
Apparently you don't get it either. Africa isn't like here. You can't just stand up one day with a wad of cash and start a business. In 90% of Africa there is no economy. Maybe if you lived in the cities and near the cities, there would be. But most of Africa are just villages that are helpless. You can teach them math. What do they gain? Nothing much really. There are no organizations out there are teach them how to properly irrigate, how to farm, where to farm, nothing. Just throw them a package of food, maybe build them a school, etc. The best you can do is sponsor a child, or hell, even pay for one to come to America/Canada. That would be a permanent change, and note, it's expensive and costly and you have to take care of them for multiple years.
Whereas with Ashley, it's a guarantee to help her, maybe not by much, but it's a guarantee. All you have to do is donate 5, 10, maybe even 15 dollars and it brings her a step further and you can pat yourself on the back for helping people. OR, you can donate that money for food for some Africans and they'll gobble it up and then go "****, back to starving". You have no idea how that feels. The worst feeling you can get when you have nothing, is being given something that only lasts for a few days/couple weeks, and then going back to nothing.
Also, people with cerebral palsy, with proper treatment, can give back to society. Search Josh Blue. He's a comedian. He can play soccer because of the generosity of others. He has goals. He has dreams. That goes against everything the other guy said, and what you said. There is literally nothing indicating that people with cerebral palsy are brain dead drones. They have thoughts like you and I, except they think differently because of the position they are in. These treatments, could potentially make her the happiest person ever. Without treatments, she will eventually die.
But I guess it's just a "suck it up" situation and we should just say screw her because she isn't a multi-billionaire giving to society?
E: dear lord at the new answers. Charity is much different than advertising. Advertising is bringing exposure to a product that many people will hopefully purchase. Charity is bringing exposure to a good cause that will improve a single individual's life, or many lives.
The money could feed/clothe several african kids for years. They could be taught critical skills, and be able to get a job, or start a company, or improve the economy. They could give back to society.
The girl, while it is a touching case, will never give back to society. She will cost over 1,000,000 USD over her lifetime, and never contribute back anything. The truth is a cruel, harsh thing, but it's reality.
The money that feeds and clothes you could do the same.
I'm very disappointed with people here... I've donated $50 on behalf of the forum. It's not much but maybe it'll make up for the poor attitudes of some users here.
I don't think a lot of people understand how the problems with Africa etc. work, we can throw money at them but it won't help, they have problems with corruption in government. There is always someone who needs money more than someone else, quit your whining.
The admin here proves that one person usually has to make up for many ill minded people. I may not donate to it, but I sure as hell won't sit here and argue why I won't and explain how no one should.
I'm very disappointed with people here... I've donated $50 on behalf of the forum. It's not much but maybe it'll make up for the poor attitudes of some users here.
I don't think a lot of people understand how the problems with Africa etc. work, we can throw money at them but it won't help, they have problems with corruption in government. There is always someone who needs money more than someone else, quit your whining.
Thanks Citric. I'm glad that there are some people here that aren't completely decimating this cause and this girl.
Also thanks to Piratebay. I was actually worried this thread was gonna get closed because of the comments D:
You can't solve the hunger problem by giving food to people, that's a very short term solution.
Most (African) countries can't be supported because the government there is either corrupt or totalitarian. Stop bringing up the hunger argument, it's not valid.
I'm very disappointed with people here... I've donated $50 on behalf of the forum. It's not much but maybe it'll make up for the poor attitudes of some users here.
I don't think a lot of people understand how the problems with Africa etc. work, we can throw money at them but it won't help, they have problems with corruption in government. There is always someone who needs money more than someone else, quit your whining.
Quote from Piratebay »
I lost faith in humanity, why is this reported as advertising?
See....well...we reported it...be....because....UH, we wanted the mods to notice the thread was here! So they could, uh, donate? On behalf of the forum. Yea, yea....donate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
You ultimately have to pay for the medical cost of that girl if the government is gonna help her.
Well our country, "Netherlands" has this by default in the law.
"Everyone young old sick and poor have the right for medical care"
Everyone pays a little amount, and from that pile of cash people get healed. Healthcare insurance is strictly maintained.
Not having one is illegal. Everyone has it as if it's an ID card.
I like this method, America apparently doesn't have one.
Agreed, the USA could use a few pointers from other countries on healthcare and internet speeds...
And sure, it's 10,000 USD. Guess what? Give that amount to a african sustainable energy project, which sets up a wind/solar powered water well... You just gave a village a source of easy water for the next 20+ years, and made it possible for those people to have a new outlook on life.
She, on the other hand, will continue to need more, and more, and more, and more, and again even more money to stay alive and partially functional. Let's be honest, it's those 1 in a million cases that do things like become a singer/comedian. I'm simply pointing out that there are better causes for this money, and that those other causes have the potential to become sustainable.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
Well our country, "Netherlands" has this by default in the law.
"Everyone young old sick and poor have the right for medical care"
Everyone pays a little amount, and from that pile of cash people get healed. Healthcare insurance is strictly maintained.
Not having one is illegal. Everyone has it as if it's an ID card.
I like this method, America apparently doesn't have one.
Agreed, the USA could use a few pointers from other countries on healthcare and internet speeds...
And sure, it's 10,000 USD. Guess what? Give that amount to a african sustainable energy project, which sets up a wind/solar powered water well... You just gave a village a source of easy water for the next 20+ years, and made it possible for those people to have a new outlook on life.
She, on the other hand, will continue to need more, and more, and more, and more, and again even more money to stay alive and partially functional. Let's be honest, it's those 1 in a million cases that do things like become a singer/comedian. I'm simply pointing out that there are better causes for this money, and that those other causes have the potential to become sustainable.
Inernet speed is in America an issue because of the technlogy. If you know about DSL limits, DSLAM 8 kilimeters maximum etc etc. being expensive, Netherland, trollingly small, so we have 100 Mbit internet hookups for a scratch. yeah. :tongue.gif:
Anyway, back OT.
A system is a system. You all pay income tax, this tax is thrown on a pile, and roads are build. schools are build. etc. For social healthcare it's just the same. Just a different way of tax. health tax we call it I guess. I break my leg, they fix it.
costs for breaking a leg? 30.000 Euro.
I could also NOT go on winter sport vacation and not break my leg, then .... yeh you get it. because healthcare is free here, that doesn't mean you can go ape everywhere.
As for the african problem.
get rid of the corruption, give tools and knowledge, leave alone. That should work, but nobody is doing it.
They just need basic minecraft tools, a cow a sheep and a pig. and a water well.
And no creepers.
Sorry had to make this.
I already know about all that internet backbone stuff... America needs a new faster and better one. DSL has it's limits, I know that personally because I still use it (it's faster than the cable in this area). Yeah, America is huge, and fiber is expensive, but it's a important thing that should be done. If nobody else does it, Google will :tongue.gif:.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” — Albert Einstein
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
Wow. Just...wow. I can't even truly express how I feel reading some of this. (And it wouldn't be very relevant, anyways, I suppose.)
From what I can see, this is merely an argument about which charities are more "worthy" of your hard-earned dollar. ((What a silly argument after all.)) You know what? That hard-earned dollar that is being fussed over? Go ahead and give it to whatever charity you want. Seems crazy, huh? But seriously, just pick whichever charity you want and send 'em the money. BAM. Problem solved. Believe that Xcharity is better than Ycharity? Well, show your support with the monies. Why in the world anyone would want to sit around preaching about how Ycharity isn't good enough to deserve help? If you ain't giving, you sure as heck don't have any place telling other people what to do with their money. Even if you ARE giving, you better get down off your high horse, because what anyone does with their paycheck is really none of anyone else's business.
@Dantevortex:
It's not about curing someone. It's about giving them a decent life. That can mean any number of things, but in the end it comes down to the person who is living that life. If her family is going to try to give her as enjoyable life as possible, then who are we to say that it is wasted? I work with the disabled as my current career. And oftentimes they can't have what you might call a "normal" life. (What a disgusting, self-righteous, condescending way to term it. But, I digress...) These people have to work harder to do things that you or I take for granted. And that doesn't always guarantee that they achieve those goals. That does NOT mean that they shouldn't have the right to strive for a better quality of life.
((Edit: Saw the post by Sivri. Completely agree.))
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine, but I would urge you to educate yourself a bit more before spouting off sounding like...well, I won't invoke Godwin's Law, but you get the idea. A human's personal worth is NEVER measured by how they can contribute financially to a system. Euthanasia? Really? The right to live isn't given by a government or any other system; being born guarantees a creature's right to life. There is not other living being that can determine whether or not someone has that right. To think that anyone does is insanity. And I would never risk giving up my basic human rights just because I see someone who is physically less able than I. Only a complete and utterly mindless fool would open that door.
I have a friend that has a less severe case of this, and has been getting surgery since she was 4. Her family has spent more on fixing her than how much they would expect to pay for college twice. Should I give her $20 every time I see her? How about the 10 homeless people I walk by every day to get to school? What makes this person more important than any of them?
If you say nothing, then I wont give her money, if you say anything, you are lying. This isn't because I don't care about humans, I just don't see why I should care more for this on specific case.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
Something you may not know, is that people with cerebral palsy are people with pretty similar minds to us. They can have dreams. Goals. Viewpoints. But the condition is just so severe that they can't even walk. Can't hold a mug. Can't properly do anything, even though in their mind they could be thinking "I wish I could do this". She even says in the video that her dream for a few years now was that she could eventually drive a car.
I used to know a man with cerebral palsy when I was really young, he couldn't walk. He couldn't use his hands properly. He couldn't talk properly. But you know what? Because of the charity of other people, they gave him the opportunity to "give back to society" as you put it. With the money they raised for him, he became a popular comedian that would tour around to elementary schools and hospitals, showing people that even the ones who are capable of almost nothing, can still do something.
With the ethic problem of Africa and then this single girl, you have to look at the big picture. Right now, there is no cause based in Africa that actually changes the area for the better. Throwing a box of food at a bunch of African kids does NOT improve their life. They eat for a few days, and suddenly it's gone, and they're back to ground zero. That feeling feels worse than if they never got food to begin with. You'd be better off donating to the organization that builds wells, but even that doesn't make much difference. You pay over $3000 for a not-so-great well that will eventually break in a couple years and nobody will be around to fix it. Literally everything relief organizations do is a temporary fix, and once it's gone, it'll make the African people feel even worse. If there was an actual organization that changed things that were permanent or at least long term, then yeah, I'd say that's a more worthwhile investment as it helps more people, but right now the money you donate is very iffy. You'd be better off sponsoring African children, but even that is unreliable as most of those organizations are Christian and forcefully convert the children to Christianity or at least half of the money you donated just simply "disappears".
On the other hand, Ashley is a girl with the wish to be normal, like you and I. She needs $10, 000 to make the first step for a better life, and her grandmother sure as hell can't just simply start a penny jar and put all her pennies in it to save up. Not everybody has ten grand laying around. Literally, your comment saying that ten thousand dollars is a small sum of money just makes it seem like you've grown up in a life of extreme wealth where you could ask for a few thousand dollars and it'd be your allowance. Ten thousand dollars is a lot of money.
Also, insurance? They don't have insurance for diseases and the treatments involved. Well, they do in Canada, to a certain extent. They can do basic treatments and keep you going, but they simply don't have the funds to do the major treatments, that is why this entirely depends on the charity of others, even if it is spreading the message.
How is it the parents' fault? You can't just decide one day that your child will have a disease. That's ridiculous.
Right now I just think you're being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
The money could feed/clothe several african kids for years. They could be taught critical skills, and be able to get a job, or start a company, or improve the economy. They could give back to society.
The girl, while it is a touching case, will never give back to society. She will cost over 1,000,000 USD over her lifetime, and never contribute back anything. The truth is a cruel, harsh thing, but it's reality.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
Because it is. Although a different type than most, but it is the same at it's core.
The world is a cruel, harsh place... Deal with it.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
Charity -//- Commercial advertising
How about stop being cruel and help people instead of bitching about it.
Thank God somebody else agrees. I didn't want to get tangled up in this mess, for flamewars' sake. I also don't see this as advertising, and I'll happily help out :smile.gif:
Well, this is a discussion thread now.
And Charity is the same-- it just poses it differently and gives no rewards... Other than a good feeling...
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
Apparently you don't get it either. Africa isn't like here. You can't just stand up one day with a wad of cash and start a business. In 90% of Africa there is no economy. Maybe if you lived in the cities and near the cities, there would be. But most of Africa are just villages that are helpless. You can teach them math. What do they gain? Nothing much really. There are no organizations out there are teach them how to properly irrigate, how to farm, where to farm, nothing. Just throw them a package of food, maybe build them a school, etc. The best you can do is sponsor a child, or hell, even pay for one to come to America/Canada. That would be a permanent change, and note, it's expensive and costly and you have to take care of them for multiple years.
Whereas with Ashley, it's a guarantee to help her, maybe not by much, but it's a guarantee. All you have to do is donate 5, 10, maybe even 15 dollars and it brings her a step further and you can pat yourself on the back for helping people. OR, you can donate that money for food for some Africans and they'll gobble it up and then go "****, back to starving". You have no idea how that feels. The worst feeling you can get when you have nothing, is being given something that only lasts for a few days/couple weeks, and then going back to nothing.
Also, people with cerebral palsy, with proper treatment, can give back to society. Search Josh Blue. He's a comedian. He can play soccer because of the generosity of others. He has goals. He has dreams. That goes against everything the other guy said, and what you said. There is literally nothing indicating that people with cerebral palsy are brain dead drones. They have thoughts like you and I, except they think differently because of the position they are in. These treatments, could potentially make her the happiest person ever. Without treatments, she will eventually die.
But I guess it's just a "suck it up" situation and we should just say screw her because she isn't a multi-billionaire giving to society?
E: dear lord at the new answers. Charity is much different than advertising. Advertising is bringing exposure to a product that many people will hopefully purchase. Charity is bringing exposure to a good cause that will improve a single individual's life, or many lives.
The money that feeds and clothes you could do the same.
I don't think a lot of people understand how the problems with Africa etc. work, we can throw money at them but it won't help, they have problems with corruption in government. There is always someone who needs money more than someone else, quit your whining.
Thanks Citric. I'm glad that there are some people here that aren't completely decimating this cause and this girl.
Also thanks to Piratebay. I was actually worried this thread was gonna get closed because of the comments D:
Most (African) countries can't be supported because the government there is either corrupt or totalitarian. Stop bringing up the hunger argument, it's not valid.
See....well...we reported it...be....because....UH, we wanted the mods to notice the thread was here! So they could, uh, donate? On behalf of the forum. Yea, yea....donate.
Agreed, the USA could use a few pointers from other countries on healthcare and internet speeds...
And sure, it's 10,000 USD. Guess what? Give that amount to a african sustainable energy project, which sets up a wind/solar powered water well... You just gave a village a source of easy water for the next 20+ years, and made it possible for those people to have a new outlook on life.
She, on the other hand, will continue to need more, and more, and more, and more, and again even more money to stay alive and partially functional. Let's be honest, it's those 1 in a million cases that do things like become a singer/comedian. I'm simply pointing out that there are better causes for this money, and that those other causes have the potential to become sustainable.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
I already know about all that internet backbone stuff... America needs a new faster and better one. DSL has it's limits, I know that personally because I still use it (it's faster than the cable in this area). Yeah, America is huge, and fiber is expensive, but it's a important thing that should be done. If nobody else does it, Google will :tongue.gif:.
Also, agreed...
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." — Robert Heinlein
From what I can see, this is merely an argument about which charities are more "worthy" of your hard-earned dollar. ((What a silly argument after all.)) You know what? That hard-earned dollar that is being fussed over? Go ahead and give it to whatever charity you want. Seems crazy, huh? But seriously, just pick whichever charity you want and send 'em the money. BAM. Problem solved. Believe that Xcharity is better than Ycharity? Well, show your support with the monies. Why in the world anyone would want to sit around preaching about how Ycharity isn't good enough to deserve help? If you ain't giving, you sure as heck don't have any place telling other people what to do with their money. Even if you ARE giving, you better get down off your high horse, because what anyone does with their paycheck is really none of anyone else's business.
@Dantevortex:
It's not about curing someone. It's about giving them a decent life. That can mean any number of things, but in the end it comes down to the person who is living that life. If her family is going to try to give her as enjoyable life as possible, then who are we to say that it is wasted? I work with the disabled as my current career. And oftentimes they can't have what you might call a "normal" life. (What a disgusting, self-righteous, condescending way to term it. But, I digress...) These people have to work harder to do things that you or I take for granted. And that doesn't always guarantee that they achieve those goals. That does NOT mean that they shouldn't have the right to strive for a better quality of life.
((Edit: Saw the post by Sivri. Completely agree.))
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine, but I would urge you to educate yourself a bit more before spouting off sounding like...well, I won't invoke Godwin's Law, but you get the idea. A human's personal worth is NEVER measured by how they can contribute financially to a system. Euthanasia? Really? The right to live isn't given by a government or any other system; being born guarantees a creature's right to life. There is not other living being that can determine whether or not someone has that right. To think that anyone does is insanity. And I would never risk giving up my basic human rights just because I see someone who is physically less able than I. Only a complete and utterly mindless fool would open that door.
I have a friend that has a less severe case of this, and has been getting surgery since she was 4. Her family has spent more on fixing her than how much they would expect to pay for college twice. Should I give her $20 every time I see her? How about the 10 homeless people I walk by every day to get to school? What makes this person more important than any of them?
If you say nothing, then I wont give her money, if you say anything, you are lying. This isn't because I don't care about humans, I just don't see why I should care more for this on specific case.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --