Discussing with Aaron how in the hell I'm going to defend myself against Greek Fire, we came across this:
"In the 12th century, the republic built a big national shipyard which is now known as the Venetian Arsenal. Building anew and powerful fleets, the republic took control over the eastern Mediterranean. The first exchange business in the world was started in Venezia, to support the merchants from all over Europe. The Venetians also gained extensive trading privileges in the Byzantine Empire and their ships often provided the Empire with a navy. In 1182 there was an anti-Western riot in Constantinople, of which the Venetians were the main targets."
In essence, ALL UR SHIPS ARE BELONG TO US.
So think twice before you try something stupid, Evan, or I'll pull the plug and leave you navy-less.
So If I decided to play as Genoa, I'd generally be a trading nation, one having a navy rivalry with Venice?
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That's three mass invasions within the same bloody month! I mean, seriously! The UDTU is attacking now, Blue has a sleeper attack coming soon, and now an invasion by space pirates? What is this, Russia if every american-made FPS happened at once?! - MagicallyDwarven
Evan: Maybe he'll realize buying from the Venetians is a good idea hence why it was decided in the first place, sit down, and bow his head to Venetian naval superiority like everyone before him did.
You'll have to fiddle with the history of Sicily since I changed it a bit.
Historically, the Hohenstaufen's inherited the throne of Sicily and it was swallowed up by the HRE. You'll want to circumvent that. The two best options would be...
A: The Hauteville's survive and you still have Norman kings.
B: An Italian family inherits and you end up with a sort of proto-Naples.
History/Bio: The eleventh century marked the rise of Venice as one of the prominent powers in Europe. Asserting it's dominance over the Adriatic and Eastern Mediterranean Seas, the Republic entered a steady climb towards economic and naval supremacy, stained only by scarce defeats. In 1080, disagreements over commercial territories with the Republic of Pisa sparked a series of political and commercial conflicts. The Republic of Pisa - already entangled in political (and often physical) skirmishes against the Republic of Genoa - feared Venice would side with their Genoan rivals. These concerns resulted in Pisa's decision to come to peace with the Republic of Venice. An official treaty was sprung up, stating the two were to respect their individual trade centers and areas of influence, thus putting an end to the disputes. Looking to keep his position in the wake of a devastating defeat against the Normans the Venetian Doge, then Domenico Selvo, agreed to the terms, but only after Pisa's full-fledged naval support in Venice's campaigns at Corfu and Crete. Pressured by the threat of Venetian intervention, Pisa agreed, enabling the Venetians - now supported by several of Pisa's own ships - to take the islands of Corfu and Crete in 1081, further strengthening Venice's presence in the Mediterranean.
The construction of the Venetian Arsenal in the twelve century served to strengthen Venice's economic and naval dominance over the region. Becoming the largest industrial complex in Europe (spanning across 15% of Venice), it became the source of the Republic's wealth and power. It produced the majority of Venice's vessels (with the ability to build whole vessels in as little as one day), and later supplied the Byzantine Empire with its naval fleets. This, combined with the Republic's involvement in the crusades - in which they supplied crusaders with ships and loans - served to propel the already wealthy Republic to the top of the economic pyramid, becoming the wealthiest in Europe. Though Venice did participate in the crusades - having assisted in the capture of various Syrian coastal cities during the First Crusade - they played a predominately background role, serving as a staging area for crusaders and supplying much of their war efforts -- occasionally influencing the course of the war (much to their advantage) through the power of persuasion.
In 1182, jealousy over Venice's success - as well as resentment for Venetian aggression in the past (coupled with the recent capture of Venetian spies) - sparked riots in Constantinople, of which Venetians were the targets. With Venetian property in the city seized and Venetian owners imprisoned or banished, the Doge of the time, Orio Mastropiero, fell under immense pressure from the public, ultimately resulting in his abdication. What followed was a period of uneventfulness as Venice retreated to a more passive existence in the wake of protests and riots that saw the fall of certain aristocratic families, and the rise of others.
Elected in 1223, Francesco Morosini, a former Venetian Admiral with various campaigns under his belt, looks to reassert Venice's position after what he considers an "utter disaster" that lead to Venice's brief period of political turmoil, a period he believes risked Venice's position on the world-stage. A man of militaristic ideals and a trading background, he seeks to use the Forth Crusade to propel Venice into a position of complete economic and military dominance over the region.
Additionally: The main Venetian houses are the Morosini, Danboro, and the Contarini.
Evan: Maybe he'll realize buying from the Venetians is a good idea hence why it was decided in the first place, sit down, and bow his head to Venetian naval superiority like everyone before him did.
As long as the Venetians are nice people. Leto II may be a wuss, but Strategos Kallierges won't let Venice get their balls in a vice grip. Also, he's far too nationalistic for him to be okay with foreign people producing his things when the Byzantines can obviously produce their own if they wanted to.
Ain't about nationalism so much as necessity. Venice is able to produce more ships in a shorter amount of time than pretty much anyone. If he wants to build a shipyard the size of Venice's Arsenal in hopes of one day being able to supply Byzantine with its own ships, he can try, but right now the Arsenal is the biggest shipyard around. Everyone gets ships from there, and for a reason. Venetian ships were the best of the best. It wouldn't be wise for the Byzantine Empire to spend an unnecessary amount of money and resources on a pipe dream. Even if you don't build a shipyard like Venice's and instead decide to use your existing shipyards, the ships produced in those shipyards will never be anywhere near the level of quality of Venetian ships. And if he does decide to build a shipyard like Venice's, he'd be wasting so much money and resources it'd turn the Empire on its head.
This would also be seen as potential competition (It's a pipe dream to begin with, but this is on the chance the Byzantines succeeded in building a shipyard like Venice's). Venice would probably stop supplying you with ships and stop to watch you dig your own grave. Then you'd be out of money AND out of ships at a time where you'd need them most.
There is a reason the Empire gets ships from Venice. It has to do with everything from quality, efficiency/speed at which their built, to the fact that Venice has a ton of resources to build them with (the Arsenal has its own private area from which to gather wood).
Hungary doesn't border the Cumans, but rather borders the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia (which then borders the Principality of Pereyaslavl, which then borders the Cumans... which then borders the Mongols)
Ain't about nationalism so much as necessity. Venice is able to produce more ships in a shorter amount of time than pretty much anyone. If he wants to build a shipyard the size of Venice's Arsenal in hopes of one day being able to supply Byzantine with its own ships, he can try, but right now the Arsenal is the biggest shipyard around. Everyone gets ships from there, and for a reason. Venetian ships were the best of the best. It wouldn't be wise for the Byzantine Empire to spend an unnecessary amount of money and resources on a pipe dream. Even if you don't build a shipyard like Venice's and instead decide to use your existing shipyards, the ships produced in those shipyards will never be anywhere near the level of quality of Venetian ships. And if he does decide to build a shipyard like Venice's, he'd be wasting so much money and resources it'd turn the Empire on its head.
This would also be seen as potential competition (It's a pipe dream to begin with, but this is on the chance the Byzantines succeeded in building a shipyard like Venice's). Venice would probably stop supplying you with ships and stop to watch you dig your own grave. Then you'd be out of money AND out of ships at a time where you'd need them most.
There is a reason the Empire gets ships from Venice. It has to do with everything from quality, efficiency/speed at which their built, to the fact that Venice has a ton of resources to build them with (the Arsenal has its own private area from which to gather wood).
I redefined my argument after some extensive research. Here, Evan, read this.
Alright, then. I'm also sure that you need the Empire's good faith to stop me from steamrolling your land colonies, so that makes a beneficial relationship.
Alright, then. I'm also sure that you need the Empire's good faith to stop me from steamrolling your land colonies, so that makes a beneficial relationship.
I never planned to go head-on against the Empire. Just don't -intercourse- with my source of wealth.
In essence, ALL UR SHIPS ARE BELONG TO US.
So think twice before you try something stupid, Evan, or I'll pull the plug and leave you navy-less.
I think Tex was going for Genoa > 3 >Sicily is definitely still up for grabs, though. XD
Oh. Not to mention Pisa in this one has taken a lot of Genoese land, and I had planned to have Pisa and Genoa start in the middle of a war.
~DED
Historically, the Hohenstaufen's inherited the throne of Sicily and it was swallowed up by the HRE. You'll want to circumvent that. The two best options would be...
A: The Hauteville's survive and you still have Norman kings.
B: An Italian family inherits and you end up with a sort of proto-Naples.
Map/Territory: The orange on the map
Leader: Doxe Francesco Morosini
History/Bio: The eleventh century marked the rise of Venice as one of the prominent powers in Europe. Asserting it's dominance over the Adriatic and Eastern Mediterranean Seas, the Republic entered a steady climb towards economic and naval supremacy, stained only by scarce defeats. In 1080, disagreements over commercial territories with the Republic of Pisa sparked a series of political and commercial conflicts. The Republic of Pisa - already entangled in political (and often physical) skirmishes against the Republic of Genoa - feared Venice would side with their Genoan rivals. These concerns resulted in Pisa's decision to come to peace with the Republic of Venice. An official treaty was sprung up, stating the two were to respect their individual trade centers and areas of influence, thus putting an end to the disputes. Looking to keep his position in the wake of a devastating defeat against the Normans the Venetian Doge, then Domenico Selvo, agreed to the terms, but only after Pisa's full-fledged naval support in Venice's campaigns at Corfu and Crete. Pressured by the threat of Venetian intervention, Pisa agreed, enabling the Venetians - now supported by several of Pisa's own ships - to take the islands of Corfu and Crete in 1081, further strengthening Venice's presence in the Mediterranean.
The construction of the Venetian Arsenal in the twelve century served to strengthen Venice's economic and naval dominance over the region. Becoming the largest industrial complex in Europe (spanning across 15% of Venice), it became the source of the Republic's wealth and power. It produced the majority of Venice's vessels (with the ability to build whole vessels in as little as one day), and later supplied the Byzantine Empire with its naval fleets. This, combined with the Republic's involvement in the crusades - in which they supplied crusaders with ships and loans - served to propel the already wealthy Republic to the top of the economic pyramid, becoming the wealthiest in Europe. Though Venice did participate in the crusades - having assisted in the capture of various Syrian coastal cities during the First Crusade - they played a predominately background role, serving as a staging area for crusaders and supplying much of their war efforts -- occasionally influencing the course of the war (much to their advantage) through the power of persuasion.
In 1182, jealousy over Venice's success - as well as resentment for Venetian aggression in the past (coupled with the recent capture of Venetian spies) - sparked riots in Constantinople, of which Venetians were the targets. With Venetian property in the city seized and Venetian owners imprisoned or banished, the Doge of the time, Orio Mastropiero, fell under immense pressure from the public, ultimately resulting in his abdication. What followed was a period of uneventfulness as Venice retreated to a more passive existence in the wake of protests and riots that saw the fall of certain aristocratic families, and the rise of others.
Elected in 1223, Francesco Morosini, a former Venetian Admiral with various campaigns under his belt, looks to reassert Venice's position after what he considers an "utter disaster" that lead to Venice's brief period of political turmoil, a period he believes risked Venice's position on the world-stage. A man of militaristic ideals and a trading background, he seeks to use the Forth Crusade to propel Venice into a position of complete economic and military dominance over the region.
Additionally: The main Venetian houses are the Morosini, Danboro, and the Contarini.
As long as the Venetians are nice people. Leto II may be a wuss, but Strategos Kallierges won't let Venice get their balls in a vice grip. Also, he's far too nationalistic for him to be okay with foreign people producing his things when the Byzantines can obviously produce their own if they wanted to.
This would also be seen as potential competition (It's a pipe dream to begin with, but this is on the chance the Byzantines succeeded in building a shipyard like Venice's). Venice would probably stop supplying you with ships and stop to watch you dig your own grave. Then you'd be out of money AND out of ships at a time where you'd need them most.
There is a reason the Empire gets ships from Venice. It has to do with everything from quality, efficiency/speed at which their built, to the fact that Venice has a ton of resources to build them with (the Arsenal has its own private area from which to gather wood).
Gigitty gigitty goo.
I redefined my argument after some extensive research. Here, Evan, read this.
I never planned to go head-on against the Empire. Just don't -intercourse- with my source of wealth.
My DeviantArt, so sexy