You do realize, that your only saying windows 8 is bad, because of ONE con (which at that, is more of an OPINION, then a con, as its just your OPINION, that the interface sucks, just like its my OPINION, that's the interface rocks) even though there are so, so many pro's to windows 8 (one of them being faster boot and login times (yes i realize its just leaving some stuff in the ram, but that still doesnt change the fact that it IS, booting faster, and logging in faster)) and there's also the fact, that future versions of directx, will ONLY, work on windows 8 and above (which is the only thing that microsoft is forcing, but honestly, who the heck doesnt get third party software to customize windows, honestly)
You do realize, that your only saying windows 8 is bad, because of ONE con (which at that, is more of an OPINION, then a con, as its just your OPINION, that the interface sucks
Yeah, and if your car engine didn't work, how would you feel about trying to use the car despite someone just labeling it as "one" flaw.
Hey man, you should buy this car from me, the Engine sucks but hey, that's just ONE flaw right?
That should give you a good comparison of why it is important. The entire point of an operating system is to let you manage your computer, acting as a layer between the hardware and software and allowing you to run programs. If the UI is crap, to me that strikes as a fundamental flaw.
just like its my OPINION, that's the interface rocks)
Except, again, my opinion is shared by a large group of people and despite you saying it is an "opinion" the fact is that I'm giving backing to my statements of -why- the interface is difficult to use. It being simply opinion would be the equivalent of me going, I like the color red. Why? Because I just do, it reflects my personality or.. some crap like that, you get the point either way.
I'm not sure why people compare discussion of failures of construction to the same as being a type of music you like, that's like saying a building is always built correctly because its your "opinion" that it doesn't work right.
even though there are so, so many pro's to windows 8 (one of them being faster boot and login times (yes i realize its just leaving some stuff in the ram, but that still doesnt change the fact that it IS, booting faster, and logging in faster))
Okay, that's two reasons, two reasons utterly eclipsed by the UI problems and reasons that could exist just fine using the same exact interface as Windows 7, so essentially you're pouring sugar on a wound as opposed to implying the Win8 design is actually a cause for these improvements to exist.
and there's also the fact, that future versions of directx, will ONLY, work on windows 8 and above
That's nothing new, and honestly it won't make much of a difference, because the same thing will be true when Windows 9 or whatever comes out, hopefully sporting a better interface and possibly killing off Windows 8 completely.
(which is the only thing that microsoft is forcing, but honestly, who the heck doesnt get third party software to customize windows, honestly)
Short of a browser, I usually don't, because I never have a reason to. I use windows to run other programs, I don't play with Windows all day, its a tool to access things I want to use. If that tool is awful to use then it causes problems.
Third party software is supposed to make your experience better not to fix things that are inherently broken and cause issues. it's like the fact people make patches for games like Oblivion, they -fix- the original game content because the developers don't do it. So what, you should tell someone the game has no bugs and only fools that don't go download the patch are to blame? Silly.
And no, the myriad of fallacies and shameless exaggerations ("why does everything need to be spread out between a billion different popout-of-nowhere menus") that you've been using so far doesn't count.
Yawn, I'm waiting for actual questions instead of brushing over my myriad of posts with "no u wrong."
Run commonly-used applications, whose residence within the menu is decided upon by you.
Except it's not a menu it's an entire -screen- it's called the start screen and it consists of what Microsoft likes to call tiles, which are essentially equivalent to picture-hyperlinks to programs and you have to manually add whichever ones you like to it, by default it doesn't display all programs and quite frankly even finding a small number of programs requires you to scroll horizontally and search for the program of interest. This is slow, clumsy, and frankly completely redundant. It does nothing more efficiently or easier to understand than the old fashioned "All programs" tab of the start menu, which displays everything with little-no scrolling or searching to find things, it's also sorted to allow you to quickly find things of interest. In addition to that it doesn't link to -one- executable like the tiles do it allows you to find shortcuts to different programs like a game level editor as well as the game itself.
Customization options are rather lacking, the tiles themselves are rather customizable in that you can drag them around and lay them out essentially how you want but the menu itself is a static construct that has no real change you can make to it in how it fundamentally works, they offer no option to get rid of it and have a simple menu like in older versions of Windows.
Access a maze of folders that represents "all the programs" that you've installed, save for the ones who don't report there presence thereto.
I've already explained this but quite a few programs aren't listed and require you to manually add your own tiles and basically set up the menu to reflect your personal taste, it's a very "personal" thing and doesn't translate well to multiple people using it, not to mention it gets cluttered extremely easy and starts to look like a giant block of a thousand icons all leading to who knows what.
Except that's already wrong, The search button is located in the charms bar, a completely separate menu that isn't even remotely related to the start screen and in fact you have to hop onto the desktop in order to access. Talk about useless. Although if you're just listing things the OS CAN do then sure, it can search, but it's been able to do that for quite a long time now.
Also located on the charms bar, for some unknown reason. Not only that but the UI is subversive in the fact it doesn't make clear to a walk up user that when they shut the thing down its actually hibernating, it's cryptic about the fact you have to specifically order a shut down because in Microsoft's own advertisements they try to force the idea on us that a computer should almost never have to be shut down and should only be put into hibernate mode.
In every fashion are they the same except one: the layout now consists of big, square tiles, and the overlay has been made fullscreen. Everything else is exactly the same, not only in a functional sense, but in a practical sense.
Literally everything you just listed, without a single exception, is different from how it was even in Windows 7, both in form and function, go figure.
If having to hover the mouse over utterly random parts of the screen like the bottom left, top right, and the rough area of the top left to pop out completely different menus is not cryptic, I don't know what is. It's about equivalent to if you started up a game and it gave you a title screen and you had to slide the mouse around until it popped up a new game button. Does that sound fun? Sounds retarded to me, the OS doesn't even -hint- to you that there are popups there. In fact its an oft repeated complaint from people who try Windows 8 without having ever used it, you literally NEED A PERSON STANDING THERE to tell you how to use the computer.
Idiotic. That is cryptic, I seriously challenge you to dispute that fact.
It is neither cryptic nor confusing to "old people," of whom you are not, and for whom the catering to or lack thereof has nothing to do with whether an OS looks "ugly" or "cryptic."
Thank you for, in one short paragraph, point out that you have absolutely no backing in your statements and are simply another raging Windows 8 fanboy with no point to your claims. I've used examples of poor usage, when I first used Windows 8 I literally had to figure out where all these menus were, including having to use google to find out where buttons were even moved to. My mother, who is in her late 40's, has a windows 8 laptop and is hardly an "old person" and she cannot at all figure out where things are on the laptop most of the time, even the things she has learned how to use she still dislikes over Windows 7, saying it makes it much harder to actually find and use things.
My siblings have given similar sentiments, they range in age from 12 to 17, if that's not a decent demographic then I guess you're either implying my family is just stupid or that you really are just clueless and don't have any sort of real content to your whining. I could list quite a few friends and other people I know that personally -dislike- windows 8 because it has so many interface problems.
Cover your ears and hum all you want, it doesn't change reality.
yeah, and lots of people having the same opinion doesnt automaticly make it a fact, its STILL, and OPINION!!!
and also, for all we know, the new start menu COULD, be the reason for any optomization, just like it couldnt be, and now, i leave this argument for people such as bc_programming and FM87 to continue (although, FM87 tends to not get in arguments anymore, so any reply from him is less likeley then one from bc_programming)
yeah, and lots of people having the same opinion doesnt automaticly make it a fact, its STILL, and OPINION!!!
What is your point?
You have an opinion, I have an opinion, congratulations, what does that change? Your opinion is that it's not hard to use and my opinion is that it is hard to use, so obviously someone is fundamentally wrong.
Usually in a case like that the answer is that either someone is taking a program for granted when it really is hard to use, and they're just ignoring the fact, or the other person is clueless on an unnatural level and can't figure out something that should be simple.
Given that a large majority of people have usability issues with Windows 8, I would have to peg the first one as being the culprit. It's not an unusual sentiment.
and also, for all we know, the new start menu COULD, be the reason for any optomization,
It's not, trust me, and I really doubt I need to argue with anyone about it because I would be really interested to hear reasoning to why that would be so. It'd be the equivalent of saying painting your house makes the air conditioner run better.
You have an opinion, I have an opinion, congratulations, what does that change? Your opinion is that it's not hard to use and my opinion is that it is hard to use, so obviously someone is fundamentally wrong.
Usually in a case like that the answer is that either someone is taking a program for granted when it really is hard to use, and they're just ignoring the fact, or the other person is clueless on an unnatural level and can't figure out something that should be simple.
Given that a large majority of people have usability issues with Windows 8, I would have to peg the first one as being the culprit. It's not an unusual sentiment.
It's not, trust me, and I really doubt I need to argue with anyone about it because I would be really interested to hear reasoning to why that would be so. It'd be the equivalent of saying painting your house makes the air conditioner run better.
actually, panting your house WILL, make the air conditioner run better, proof: it did for me
You knew that's not "all [I've] got to reply with," because you obviously read my whole post. That being the case, what was the point of this silly paragraph?
The point me replying to things sequentially, like I always do. I find it funny you point that out though since you're essentially complaining I repeated the same thing you did but reversed in your direction.
Old elementary school argument, don't throw a ball at someone's head if you don't want one thrown back at you.
Between the generous sprinkling of weasel words, ad populum fallacies, and strawman nonsense, your posts are characterized by a certain charm that makes them fun — or maybe the correct word is amusing — to read. They are also, as I will soon point out, characterized by complete ignorance of Windows 8.
More boring rambling at an attempt to sound tough. Boy this is really adding to the conversation huh? Maybe at some point we'll get to the actual discussion of points.
And you had to do the same ("manually add whichever ones you like") to add shortcuts to the Windows 7 start menu? Your point?
Except you didn't in fact I've never once that I can think of in my history of owning a Windows computer ever had to manually add a start menu shortcut, programs can elect to add a start menu shortcut and system related shortcuts are already in place from the default install, so you never have to go "fishing" for any kind of program besides very few special utility programs like dxdiag.
The only other programs that aren't listed tend to be ones that are not installed but are simply placed by you, such as from an archive file. That behavior isn't really any different on Windows8 obviously. In my experience even from install Windows 8 does not offer even a fraction of the tiles that would be needed to represent a lot of system tools that you might want access to, or even installed programs. You have to manually add them.
And by default the Windows 7 start menu doesn't "display all programs." You have to click a button (labeled "all programs") to access them. Can you guess what you have to do in Windows 8 to access all programs from the start menu? That's right! You also have to click a button! Except instead of reading "all programs," this button takes the form of a blue, downward-pointing arrow.
I hope you're not seriously making that comparison. The "all programs" arrow you're referring to goes to a completely separate screen that doesn't use tiles and is in essence yet another window to click through in order to find a program. As far as I know said list isn't indicative of a start menu -folder- like Win7 is either, it just indexes programs that it finds so you can't actually find some programs in that menu either, in extreme cases you might have to physically go to the folder of a program just to use it. Which is even harder to do now because Win8 is designed in a way that it makes an extreme attempt to hide access to the file system.
Also the "all programs" in windows 7 is not exactly optional, the bar that shows when you don't click it is nothing but "recently used" programs and thus is obviously not designed for browsing programs available on the computer. In addition to this whole ridiculous argument, the fact is even if they worked exactly the same it is still -much- more simple to access said menu on Win7 than it ever is on win8, considering its on the complete opposite side of the screen. It'd be like if the win7 start menu popped up and covered the whole screen and all the way at the bottom right there was a little "all programs" button. Retarded.
It's slow and clumsy? How? Opening up a program can be done in the exact same number of steps in Windows 8 as it did in Windows 7. It does it no more efficiently, but it does it no less.
I already explained very thoroughly why it is a laborious process that adds nothing but detracts fully, so I won't bother repeating myself. Also I'm just going to cut out all the majorly repeated "your point?" comments since they are so childish and add nothing to your comment.
And you could customize the look of your start menu entries beyond their "static construct" nature in the Windows 7 start menu? You couldn't? Great.
Actually there's quite a few options for changing how the start menu appears, there's even a "customize start menu" section under properties. Not that it really matters, the whole point was that the Windows 8 version causes usability problems and offers no alternative solution such as appearing like the old start menu, so your spouting "your point" is answered with "It fails."
Ah, and here's how we know you've never even used Windows 8.
What cracks me up is that you are really under the dilusion that if you say that everyone that dislikes Windows 8 has never used it, then it will make it true. Honestly I can go take a picture of the laptop running Windows 8 if it would really untwist your panties enough to make you stop typing so much pointless garbage.
Open up the start menu in Windows 8. Start typing. What do you see? That's right! It starts searching what you typed, EXACTLY like it does in Windows 7 when you start typing in the start menu. This is exactly how the Windows 7 start menu search feature functioned.
Uh, no, if you open up the start menu and start typing it jumps to the search menu, which is a shortcut. The only actual way to manually access searching other than that is through the charms bar. The search menu also only lists the same indexed all programs menu that I discussed before, so it won't actually do a file search or anything like that.
I'm not sure how you compare that to Windows 7 either, Windows 7 has a physical search box located on the bottom of the menu and isn't a jump-shortcut like Windows 8(More cryptic things, go figure!)
I could go on. This could turn into an interminable back-and-forth conversation. But I think it's clear at this point that you've never even used Windows 8, as you've so clearly demonstrated here. Either that's the case, or you are just willfully and maliciously spreading false information. If that's the case, I won't judge, but I also won't bother to waste my time trying to convince you of something you already know (or don't know, seeing as you've never used Windows 8). Good day.
No, please, don't run with your tail between your legs, give me more redundant mud slinging and nonsense where you try and convince yourself I haven't used the OS before and that's why I think it sucks.
I actually started laughing when I read that you seriously accused me of not having used Windows 8, you know, the same stupid excuse you and everyone else were using a year ago. Seriously, come up with a better excuse. I should probably feel a little insulted that out of all my typing and points THAT is the best thing you can come up with.
The only "issue" that 8.1 fixes with 8 is boot to desktop. We're still missing Glass or at the very minimum window borders that aren't gaudily colored, an actual Start menu, and most importantly an actual reason to upgrade to 8.1 from 7 besides the new task manager and LOLmetro, neither of which are worth the $40-100 upgrade fee.
I'm upgrading (currently still in download) and I want to know, will it reset the registry? There are ups and downs for me either way, but I'd like to know ahead of time.
not that ive noticed, only thing ive had to re-install, is my Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard driver's everything else still works fine
my website- http://pcbuilds.site...orums/index.php -Looking for Admin's, pm for more info
It is 4%
Hey everyone, I'm back!
Yeah, and if your car engine didn't work, how would you feel about trying to use the car despite someone just labeling it as "one" flaw.
Hey man, you should buy this car from me, the Engine sucks but hey, that's just ONE flaw right?
That should give you a good comparison of why it is important. The entire point of an operating system is to let you manage your computer, acting as a layer between the hardware and software and allowing you to run programs. If the UI is crap, to me that strikes as a fundamental flaw.
Except, again, my opinion is shared by a large group of people and despite you saying it is an "opinion" the fact is that I'm giving backing to my statements of -why- the interface is difficult to use. It being simply opinion would be the equivalent of me going, I like the color red. Why? Because I just do, it reflects my personality or.. some crap like that, you get the point either way.
I'm not sure why people compare discussion of failures of construction to the same as being a type of music you like, that's like saying a building is always built correctly because its your "opinion" that it doesn't work right.
Okay, that's two reasons, two reasons utterly eclipsed by the UI problems and reasons that could exist just fine using the same exact interface as Windows 7, so essentially you're pouring sugar on a wound as opposed to implying the Win8 design is actually a cause for these improvements to exist.
That's nothing new, and honestly it won't make much of a difference, because the same thing will be true when Windows 9 or whatever comes out, hopefully sporting a better interface and possibly killing off Windows 8 completely.
Short of a browser, I usually don't, because I never have a reason to. I use windows to run other programs, I don't play with Windows all day, its a tool to access things I want to use. If that tool is awful to use then it causes problems.
Third party software is supposed to make your experience better not to fix things that are inherently broken and cause issues. it's like the fact people make patches for games like Oblivion, they -fix- the original game content because the developers don't do it. So what, you should tell someone the game has no bugs and only fools that don't go download the patch are to blame? Silly.
I provided an article explaining pretty well why the interface sucks but if all you've got to reply with is mud slinging then sure, I'll play ball.
Yawn, I'm waiting for actual questions instead of brushing over my myriad of posts with "no u wrong."
Except it's not a menu it's an entire -screen- it's called the start screen and it consists of what Microsoft likes to call tiles, which are essentially equivalent to picture-hyperlinks to programs and you have to manually add whichever ones you like to it, by default it doesn't display all programs and quite frankly even finding a small number of programs requires you to scroll horizontally and search for the program of interest. This is slow, clumsy, and frankly completely redundant. It does nothing more efficiently or easier to understand than the old fashioned "All programs" tab of the start menu, which displays everything with little-no scrolling or searching to find things, it's also sorted to allow you to quickly find things of interest. In addition to that it doesn't link to -one- executable like the tiles do it allows you to find shortcuts to different programs like a game level editor as well as the game itself.
Customization options are rather lacking, the tiles themselves are rather customizable in that you can drag them around and lay them out essentially how you want but the menu itself is a static construct that has no real change you can make to it in how it fundamentally works, they offer no option to get rid of it and have a simple menu like in older versions of Windows.
I've already explained this but quite a few programs aren't listed and require you to manually add your own tiles and basically set up the menu to reflect your personal taste, it's a very "personal" thing and doesn't translate well to multiple people using it, not to mention it gets cluttered extremely easy and starts to look like a giant block of a thousand icons all leading to who knows what.
Except that's already wrong, The search button is located in the charms bar, a completely separate menu that isn't even remotely related to the start screen and in fact you have to hop onto the desktop in order to access. Talk about useless. Although if you're just listing things the OS CAN do then sure, it can search, but it's been able to do that for quite a long time now.
Also located on the charms bar, for some unknown reason. Not only that but the UI is subversive in the fact it doesn't make clear to a walk up user that when they shut the thing down its actually hibernating, it's cryptic about the fact you have to specifically order a shut down because in Microsoft's own advertisements they try to force the idea on us that a computer should almost never have to be shut down and should only be put into hibernate mode.
Silly.
Literally everything you just listed, without a single exception, is different from how it was even in Windows 7, both in form and function, go figure.
If having to hover the mouse over utterly random parts of the screen like the bottom left, top right, and the rough area of the top left to pop out completely different menus is not cryptic, I don't know what is. It's about equivalent to if you started up a game and it gave you a title screen and you had to slide the mouse around until it popped up a new game button. Does that sound fun? Sounds retarded to me, the OS doesn't even -hint- to you that there are popups there. In fact its an oft repeated complaint from people who try Windows 8 without having ever used it, you literally NEED A PERSON STANDING THERE to tell you how to use the computer.
Idiotic. That is cryptic, I seriously challenge you to dispute that fact.
Thank you for, in one short paragraph, point out that you have absolutely no backing in your statements and are simply another raging Windows 8 fanboy with no point to your claims. I've used examples of poor usage, when I first used Windows 8 I literally had to figure out where all these menus were, including having to use google to find out where buttons were even moved to. My mother, who is in her late 40's, has a windows 8 laptop and is hardly an "old person" and she cannot at all figure out where things are on the laptop most of the time, even the things she has learned how to use she still dislikes over Windows 7, saying it makes it much harder to actually find and use things.
My siblings have given similar sentiments, they range in age from 12 to 17, if that's not a decent demographic then I guess you're either implying my family is just stupid or that you really are just clueless and don't have any sort of real content to your whining. I could list quite a few friends and other people I know that personally -dislike- windows 8 because it has so many interface problems.
Cover your ears and hum all you want, it doesn't change reality.
yeah, and lots of people having the same opinion doesnt automaticly make it a fact, its STILL, and OPINION!!!
and also, for all we know, the new start menu COULD, be the reason for any optomization, just like it couldnt be, and now, i leave this argument for people such as bc_programming and FM87 to continue (although, FM87 tends to not get in arguments anymore, so any reply from him is less likeley then one from bc_programming)
my website- http://pcbuilds.site...orums/index.php -Looking for Admin's, pm for more info
What is your point?
You have an opinion, I have an opinion, congratulations, what does that change? Your opinion is that it's not hard to use and my opinion is that it is hard to use, so obviously someone is fundamentally wrong.
Usually in a case like that the answer is that either someone is taking a program for granted when it really is hard to use, and they're just ignoring the fact, or the other person is clueless on an unnatural level and can't figure out something that should be simple.
Given that a large majority of people have usability issues with Windows 8, I would have to peg the first one as being the culprit. It's not an unusual sentiment.
It's not, trust me, and I really doubt I need to argue with anyone about it because I would be really interested to hear reasoning to why that would be so. It'd be the equivalent of saying painting your house makes the air conditioner run better.
actually, panting your house WILL, make the air conditioner run better, proof: it did for me
my website- http://pcbuilds.site...orums/index.php -Looking for Admin's, pm for more info
The point me replying to things sequentially, like I always do. I find it funny you point that out though since you're essentially complaining I repeated the same thing you did but reversed in your direction.
Old elementary school argument, don't throw a ball at someone's head if you don't want one thrown back at you.
More boring rambling at an attempt to sound tough. Boy this is really adding to the conversation huh? Maybe at some point we'll get to the actual discussion of points.
Except you didn't in fact I've never once that I can think of in my history of owning a Windows computer ever had to manually add a start menu shortcut, programs can elect to add a start menu shortcut and system related shortcuts are already in place from the default install, so you never have to go "fishing" for any kind of program besides very few special utility programs like dxdiag.
The only other programs that aren't listed tend to be ones that are not installed but are simply placed by you, such as from an archive file. That behavior isn't really any different on Windows8 obviously. In my experience even from install Windows 8 does not offer even a fraction of the tiles that would be needed to represent a lot of system tools that you might want access to, or even installed programs. You have to manually add them.
I hope you're not seriously making that comparison. The "all programs" arrow you're referring to goes to a completely separate screen that doesn't use tiles and is in essence yet another window to click through in order to find a program. As far as I know said list isn't indicative of a start menu -folder- like Win7 is either, it just indexes programs that it finds so you can't actually find some programs in that menu either, in extreme cases you might have to physically go to the folder of a program just to use it. Which is even harder to do now because Win8 is designed in a way that it makes an extreme attempt to hide access to the file system.
Also the "all programs" in windows 7 is not exactly optional, the bar that shows when you don't click it is nothing but "recently used" programs and thus is obviously not designed for browsing programs available on the computer. In addition to this whole ridiculous argument, the fact is even if they worked exactly the same it is still -much- more simple to access said menu on Win7 than it ever is on win8, considering its on the complete opposite side of the screen. It'd be like if the win7 start menu popped up and covered the whole screen and all the way at the bottom right there was a little "all programs" button. Retarded.
I already explained very thoroughly why it is a laborious process that adds nothing but detracts fully, so I won't bother repeating myself. Also I'm just going to cut out all the majorly repeated "your point?" comments since they are so childish and add nothing to your comment.
Actually there's quite a few options for changing how the start menu appears, there's even a "customize start menu" section under properties. Not that it really matters, the whole point was that the Windows 8 version causes usability problems and offers no alternative solution such as appearing like the old start menu, so your spouting "your point" is answered with "It fails."
What cracks me up is that you are really under the dilusion that if you say that everyone that dislikes Windows 8 has never used it, then it will make it true. Honestly I can go take a picture of the laptop running Windows 8 if it would really untwist your panties enough to make you stop typing so much pointless garbage.
Uh, no, if you open up the start menu and start typing it jumps to the search menu, which is a shortcut. The only actual way to manually access searching other than that is through the charms bar. The search menu also only lists the same indexed all programs menu that I discussed before, so it won't actually do a file search or anything like that.
I'm not sure how you compare that to Windows 7 either, Windows 7 has a physical search box located on the bottom of the menu and isn't a jump-shortcut like Windows 8(More cryptic things, go figure!)
No, please, don't run with your tail between your legs, give me more redundant mud slinging and nonsense where you try and convince yourself I haven't used the OS before and that's why I think it sucks.
I actually started laughing when I read that you seriously accused me of not having used Windows 8, you know, the same stupid excuse you and everyone else were using a year ago. Seriously, come up with a better excuse. I should probably feel a little insulted that out of all my typing and points THAT is the best thing you can come up with.
this is the most false thing youve said so far:
OH LOOK AT THAT, it searched files, i wonder how it did that, oh yeah, BECAUSE YOUR SO SO WRONG:
my website- http://pcbuilds.site...orums/index.php -Looking for Admin's, pm for more info
not that ive noticed, only thing ive had to re-install, is my Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard driver's everything else still works fine
my website- http://pcbuilds.site...orums/index.php -Looking for Admin's, pm for more info