This is an idea I've been thinking of ever since stained clay came to Minecraft on the Xbox. Basically, we should be able to use fortune tools on clay blocks. This will cause us to get a random number of extra clay (items). This would be nice because we could potentially get an unlimited amount of clay, making it much easier to build with stained clay. The only reason I suggest this is because of the puny Xbox 360 worlds.
Is this a good idea?
I'd rather not have one clay block make essentially an unlimited amount; I'd rather have clay be obtained with a different method, such as using more common materials as crafting materials for it, or some clay-dropping mob that was mentioned a while back.
I think Fortune could work as a shovel enchantment to increase the drop number of clay balls, but it should be set so that it only works on naturally occurring clay blocks; any attempt to reconstitute clay balls into a block and then mined again would only give 4 as usual.
I think due to the size of the Xbox 360 worlds, there does need to be something done about the occurrence rate of clay. Many times I've attempted to create large scale hotels and buildings with an authentic brick outing, but with the clay balls to brick block ratio being 4:1 it makes it very difficult unless you invest many levels in enchantments to spend extended periods of time underwater mining clay at the very bottom of ocean biomes.
You could try something like this which would result in HUGE amounts of clay being found, and a oddly beautiful piece of scenery with which to experiment with. Obviously this requires a large amount of commitment, time, and energy, but in terms of resources, you only really need a few enchanted diamond pickaxes, and some torches.
That get's messy when you start to have to make the game keep track of which blocks are natural spawn and which were crafted and placed. IMO a clay block should never drop more clay balls than it would take to craft it back. I'm ok with it being the same amount, but then that would defeat the purpose of having fortune on a shovel.
Frankly... as cool as that walled off base in the middle of the ocean is... that is a LOT more work than just mining the clay out at the bottom of the ocean floor as you go.
I'm with Phoenix on this, have additional ways to get clay added to the game other than getting more return for mining out a single clay block (villager trading, MOB drop, recipe, etc.)...
In fact, I think someone made a recipe for making a dirt block out of mixing sand, (optionally gravel), clay, and optionally leaves (for fertilizer reasons), and one of the caveats to that was that the dirt block would be able to be pulled apart into its corresponding parts too (you can use dirt blocks to extract sand and clay (and gravel).
This might require a new tool, something like a separator, that maybe has a setup similar to a potion stand in layout, 1 input, 3 outputs, which would work on stacks of blocks at once (for example: 8 blocks of dirt would yield 3 blocks of clay, 4 blocks of sand, and 1 block of gravel).
In fact, I think someone made a recipe for making a dirt block out of mixing sand, (optionally gravel), clay, and optionally leaves (for fertilizer reasons), and one of the caveats to that was that the dirt block would be able to be pulled apart into its corresponding parts too (you can use dirt blocks to extract sand and clay (and gravel).
This might require a new tool, something like a separator, that maybe has a setup similar to a potion stand in layout, 1 input, 3 outputs, which would work on stacks of blocks at once (for example: 8 blocks of dirt would yield 3 blocks of clay, 4 blocks of sand, and 1 block of gravel).
Instead of some new tool, why not just "cook" dirt to get a clay ball? Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but what in MC does?!
I also like Syeonyx's idea of making a trade-able item. Plus One.
I think someone made a recipe for making a dirt block out of mixing sand, (optionally gravel), clay, and optionally leaves (for fertilizer reasons), and one of the caveats to that was that the dirt block would be able to be pulled apart into its corresponding parts too (you can use dirt blocks to extract sand and clay (and gravel).
This might require a new tool, something like a separator, that maybe has a setup similar to a potion stand in layout, 1 input, 3 outputs, which would work on stacks of blocks at once (for example: 8 blocks of dirt would yield 3 blocks of clay, 4 blocks of sand, and 1 block of gravel).
Why add a new tool and/or UI to the game when this could be done within the existing Crafting Bench? The Java version has Coarse Dirt, which is crafted by: 2 Dirt + 2 Gravel = 4 Coarse Dirt. While I'm not against the idea of making Dirt blocks craftable, I think there needs to be some element of loss or degradation included. In Java 1.8, Coarse Dirt can be Tilled back into regular Dirt, but the Gravel portion disappears. Similarly, Boats break into smaller pieces of wood (Sticks), requiring more Planks in order to re-build. Perhaps Dirt could borrow from the features of Gravel, (i.e., the odds of obtaining Flint at the loss of a Gravel). In other words, every Dirt that is Shoveled has a rare chance of dropping a Clay Ball in its place?
You could also make it a tradeable item with villagers, such as the blacksmith which would convince more people to defend and expand villages artificially.
This is not a bad idea, either. Un-craftable items were added to Trades, (Name Tag, Saddle). And the new Fishing mechanics added a chance of obtaining Lily Pads. So I can see a Clay Trade fitting in nicely.
Quote from Deskepticonjump
Instead of some new tool, why not just "cook" dirt to get a clay ball? Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but what in MC does?!
This is a very simple option, but with the overall abundance of Dirt in every world, that's certainly the potential for a lot of Clay! In my opinion, a game addition such as this, (making an existing block type renewable), should require a little more give-and-take from the Player.
Why add a new tool and/or UI to the game when this could be done within the existing Crafting Bench? The Java version has Coarse Dirt, which is crafted by: 2 Dirt + 2 Gravel = 4 Coarse Dirt. While I'm not against the idea of making Dirt blocks craftable, I think there needs to be some element of loss or degradation included...
The purpose of the new tool was that the current crafting bench accepts multiple input types but yields only one output type. The idea of the Separator was to allow for a single input to yield multiple outputs and help to make a closer 1:1 conversion between the block types. So if you just wanted to accept a lossy conversion, then the existing crafting table can work on something like a 2:1 ratio or even a 3:2 ratio, (2 dirt blocks can yield 1 block of clay : : 3 dirt blocks can yield 2 blocks of sand) which would allow the player to continue to use the Crafting table interface for this purpose.
There are a lot of illogical things in Minecraft ... like all leaf blocks having a chance to drop apples (one of my MAJOR bug bears)...
I've only seen Oak leaves have any chance of dropping apples... I've never gotten an apple from Jungle, Spruce, nor Birch. Not that an Oak Tree (as opposed to an Apple Tree) dropping Apples is logical in the first place....
I like the idea of having naturally occurring sponge blocks that convert nearby dirt into clay blocks over time as it makes sense (at least a little), and it would give a more reliable way to find clay in the wild.
Intriguing idea to have an outside block affect an adjacent block in this manner over time.... I kind of like this idea.
A mob dropping clay would actually be very neat. Perhaps Witches could have a low chance of dropping a brick, or clay ball? However, I really like that clay golem idea.
...Perhaps Dirt could borrow from the features of Gravel, (i.e., the odds of obtaining Flint at the loss of a Gravel). In other words, every Dirt that is Shoveled has a rare chance of dropping a Clay Ball in its place? This is a great idea. I'm completely in favor of having a clay ball be a rare drop from dirt.
This is a very simple option, but with the overall abundance of Dirt in every world, that's certainly the potential for a lot of Clay! In my opinion, a game addition such as this, (making an existing block type renewable), should require a little more give-and-take from the Player. How much "give and take" would you think is acceptable? Smelting a dirt block into a clay ball would still require a fuel source. And since it requires 4 clay balls to make a clay block, a full stack of dirt would yield 16 clay blocks.Besides, clay is only ever used for building blocks, whether it's brick or hardened/stained clay. It's my opinion that building blocks should be near infinite resources. Compare: one can smelt as much cobblestone as they want to get smooth stone, which can then be converted to stone bricks on a 1:1 ratio.
A mob dropping clay would actually be very neat. Perhaps Witches could have a low chance of dropping a brick, or clay ball? However, I really like that clay golem idea.
What would the purpose of a Clay Golem be, though? If it would only serve to make clay renewable, I think there are better options. Greg's ideas of separator is interesting as it also allows for sand to be renewable, but the cynic in me says 4J won't implement any suggestion that would require undo effort on their part.
Clay balls as a rare drop from dirt is the easiest, most feasible option for them. And it works for the player, too.
What would the purpose of a Clay Golem be, though? If it would only serve to make clay renewable, I think there are better options. Greg's ideas of separator is interesting as it also allows for sand to be renewable, but the cynic in me says 4J won't implement any suggestion that would require undo effort on their part.
Clay balls as a rare drop from dirt is the easiest, most feasible option for them. And it works for the player, too.
I like the idea of dirt occasionally dropping a clay ball! If gravel can occasionally drop flint, why not dirt occasionally dropping clay. I didn't read far enough back to see who suggested it... but kudos too them. I'll go back now to find that initial suggester and +1 the post. ETA: Found it - kudos Coodworth!
I like the idea of dirt occasionally dropping a clay ball! If gravel can occasionally drop flint, why not dirt occasionally dropping clay. I didn't read far enough back to see who suggested it... but kudos too them. I'll go back now to find that initial suggester and +1 the post. ETA: Found it - kudos Coodworth!
Since Fortune III shovels used on gravel yield flint 100% of the time, would they yield clay balls 100% of the time when used on dirt? If so, that's a lot of clay!
Since Fortune III shovels used on gravel yield flint 100% of the time, would they yield clay balls 100% of the time when used on dirt? If so, that's a lot of clay!
That really doesn't bother me. The dirt which is lost is one of the few truly irreplaceable blocks still in the game (even though there is a lot of it)... so, eventually, the player would run out of dirt if they opted to use a Fortune III shovel on dirt 100% of the time. Most players wouldn't bother. Also, if dirt only drops 1 clay ball 100% of the time using a Fortune III shovel, then only 1/4 the amount of clay blocks could be made as there was in dirt blocks... so, there is a further "net loss" of material there.
Gravel itself is already unlimited since it is available in the nether (which is resettable), so flint is already available in unlimited amounts (even without villager trading). Also, the need for flint is pretty minimal, particularly if you enchant your bows and get infinity now and then.
There is currently a thread going about Flatland Survival maps. Currently, there is no way to introduce clay into a superflat map without going into creative mode. Adding a chance of dirt dropping clay balls would facilitate this sort of survival game quite nicely.
Good points. As an aside, don't you wish there were some other use for flint? I don't play pc, but is there a future use for it coming along? Even cool-looking blocks of it would be alright. I store everything (bad habit) and I have about 20 chests of it. I clear out all the soft stuff when I'm caving, and if my shovel's a fortune, flint happens. A lot.
Good points. As an aside, don't you wish there were some other use for flint? I don't play pc, but is there a future use for it coming along? Even cool-looking blocks of it would be alright. I store everything (bad habit) and I have about 20 chests of it. I clear out all the soft stuff when I'm caving, and if my shovel's a fortune, flint happens. A lot.
I agree with the hope that they may discover more uses for flint in the future. Personally, I don't enchant shovels normally and only craft stone ones (which are quick enough for me). If I did happen to enchant a shovel and it comes up "fortune", I'd probably just throw it away to avoid the preponderance of useless flint. Even without fortune, I have chests full of the stuff in many of my worlds... just through basic mining and replacing the gravel pathways in the villages with wooden walkways (which endermen can't carry off). I also basically use the gravel blocks just as landfill.
The dirt which is lost is one of the few truly irreplaceable blocks still in the game (even though there is a lot of it)... so, eventually, the player would run out of dirt if they opted to use a Fortune III shovel on dirt 100% of the time. Most players wouldn't bother. Also, if dirt only drops 1 clay ball 100% of the time using a Fortune III shovel, then only 1/4 the amount of clay blocks could be made as there was in dirt blocks... so, there is a further "net loss" of material there.
Gravel itself is already unlimited since it is available in the nether (which is resettable), so flint is already available in unlimited amounts (even without villager trading).
In most other editions of MC, each piece of Flint obtained means one block of Gravel is lost forever. Because Clay is (currently) such a limited resource, I suggested Dirt blocks occasionally dropping Clay balls because there is generally more Dirt than Gravel available in a world, anyway.
As for the Fortune Enchantment, I think it should have a different effect on Dirt-to-Clay than it has on Gravel-to-Flint. UpUp_Away95 makes a good point about Gravel being "unlimited" due to the Nether Reset Option. Dirt, on the other hand, is limited. Rather than each Level of Fortune increasing the odds of dropping Clay, I suggest increasing the amount of drop, when it happens. In other words ... Non-enchanted Shovels digging Dirt would occasionally drop 1 Clay ball, Fortune I shovels would drop 2 Clay balls, Fortune II Shovels would drop 3 Clay balls, and Fortune III Shovels would drop 4 Clay balls. So, with a Fortune III Shovel, you'll get the equivalent of 1 Clay Block per occasional drop. This allows for Clay to be renewable, to an extent, and the Enchantment doesn't destroy as many Dirt blocks the way it does to Gravel. It also gives the player more control over his/her own inventory. Dirt can continue to be dug until you get the amount of Clay you desire. Unlike, as mentioned, ending up with Chests full of Flint that you have no use for.
I was mulling the topic over and thought about how annoying getting flint along with gravel is when caving--it just wastes more space. I think the same would apply to dirt and clay. Anyone terraforming a large area would become annoyed by how much clay begins sucking up space. Maybe normal breaking drops zero and Fortune I ought to drop one piece, and it goes up from there.
I was mulling the topic over and thought about how annoying getting flint along with gravel is when caving--it just wastes more space. I think the same would apply to dirt and clay. Anyone terraforming a large area would become annoyed by how much clay begins sucking up space. Maybe normal breaking drops zero and Fortune I ought to drop one piece, and it goes up from there.
Ugh, bad idea. That would mean needing to gather too many resources to enchant. (Obsidian, diamonds, books(leather, sugar cane), wood for bookshelves) I say simply leave clay alone.
I was mulling the topic over and thought about how annoying getting flint along with gravel is when caving--it just wastes more space. I think the same would apply to dirt and clay. Anyone terraforming a large area would become annoyed by how much clay begins sucking up space. Maybe normal breaking drops zero and Fortune I ought to drop one piece, and it goes up from there.
The thing with clay balls vs. flint is that clay balls can readily be turned back into clay blocks. Flint can't be turned back into gravel blocks. If the clay isn't needed, people can always convert the balls back into blocks and use the blocks as landfill (or in building a mesa landscape as part of a terraforming project if they want). Also, clay and clay bricks can be readily used as basic building materials, so I think people in general would have a higher demand for clay than they do for flint currently.
Just adding my 2 cents re: using the Fortune enchantment on a shovel idea...
I can see Phoenix's concern that he would prefer a better control as to whether you get clay or not.
I could go with:
No Fortune Enchantment always drops dirt (0 clay balls)
Fortune I has a very small chance of dropping 1-2 clay balls (instead of a dirt block)
Fortune II has a small chance of dropping 2-3 clay balls (instead of a dirt block)
Fortune III has a moderately light chance of dropping 3-4 balls of clay (instead of a dirt block)
Farming Mycelium with a Fortune enchanted shovel could have a much higher probability of getting the upper end drops (2, 3, 4 respectively), than by farming dirt, tilled, or grass blocks.
Is this a good idea?
Stay fluffy~
That get's messy when you start to have to make the game keep track of which blocks are natural spawn and which were crafted and placed. IMO a clay block should never drop more clay balls than it would take to craft it back. I'm ok with it being the same amount, but then that would defeat the purpose of having fortune on a shovel.
Frankly... as cool as that walled off base in the middle of the ocean is... that is a LOT more work than just mining the clay out at the bottom of the ocean floor as you go.
I'm with Phoenix on this, have additional ways to get clay added to the game other than getting more return for mining out a single clay block (villager trading, MOB drop, recipe, etc.)...
In fact, I think someone made a recipe for making a dirt block out of mixing sand, (optionally gravel), clay, and optionally leaves (for fertilizer reasons), and one of the caveats to that was that the dirt block would be able to be pulled apart into its corresponding parts too (you can use dirt blocks to extract sand and clay (and gravel).
This might require a new tool, something like a separator, that maybe has a setup similar to a potion stand in layout, 1 input, 3 outputs, which would work on stacks of blocks at once (for example: 8 blocks of dirt would yield 3 blocks of clay, 4 blocks of sand, and 1 block of gravel).
Instead of some new tool, why not just "cook" dirt to get a clay ball? Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but what in MC does?!
I also like Syeonyx's idea of making a trade-able item. Plus One.
Why add a new tool and/or UI to the game when this could be done within the existing Crafting Bench? The Java version has Coarse Dirt, which is crafted by: 2 Dirt + 2 Gravel = 4 Coarse Dirt. While I'm not against the idea of making Dirt blocks craftable, I think there needs to be some element of loss or degradation included. In Java 1.8, Coarse Dirt can be Tilled back into regular Dirt, but the Gravel portion disappears. Similarly, Boats break into smaller pieces of wood (Sticks), requiring more Planks in order to re-build. Perhaps Dirt could borrow from the features of Gravel, (i.e., the odds of obtaining Flint at the loss of a Gravel). In other words, every Dirt that is Shoveled has a rare chance of dropping a Clay Ball in its place?
This is not a bad idea, either. Un-craftable items were added to Trades, (Name Tag, Saddle). And the new Fishing mechanics added a chance of obtaining Lily Pads. So I can see a Clay Trade fitting in nicely.
This is a very simple option, but with the overall abundance of Dirt in every world, that's certainly the potential for a lot of Clay! In my opinion, a game addition such as this, (making an existing block type renewable), should require a little more give-and-take from the Player.
The purpose of the new tool was that the current crafting bench accepts multiple input types but yields only one output type. The idea of the Separator was to allow for a single input to yield multiple outputs and help to make a closer 1:1 conversion between the block types. So if you just wanted to accept a lossy conversion, then the existing crafting table can work on something like a 2:1 ratio or even a 3:2 ratio, (2 dirt blocks can yield 1 block of clay : : 3 dirt blocks can yield 2 blocks of sand) which would allow the player to continue to use the Crafting table interface for this purpose.
I've only seen Oak leaves have any chance of dropping apples... I've never gotten an apple from Jungle, Spruce, nor Birch. Not that an Oak Tree (as opposed to an Apple Tree) dropping Apples is logical in the first place....
Intriguing idea to have an outside block affect an adjacent block in this manner over time.... I kind of like this idea.
Responses in bold.
What would the purpose of a Clay Golem be, though? If it would only serve to make clay renewable, I think there are better options. Greg's ideas of separator is interesting as it also allows for sand to be renewable, but the cynic in me says 4J won't implement any suggestion that would require undo effort on their part.
Clay balls as a rare drop from dirt is the easiest, most feasible option for them. And it works for the player, too.
I like the idea of dirt occasionally dropping a clay ball! If gravel can occasionally drop flint, why not dirt occasionally dropping clay. I didn't read far enough back to see who suggested it... but kudos too them. I'll go back now to find that initial suggester and +1 the post. ETA: Found it - kudos Coodworth!
Since Fortune III shovels used on gravel yield flint 100% of the time, would they yield clay balls 100% of the time when used on dirt? If so, that's a lot of clay!
That really doesn't bother me. The dirt which is lost is one of the few truly irreplaceable blocks still in the game (even though there is a lot of it)... so, eventually, the player would run out of dirt if they opted to use a Fortune III shovel on dirt 100% of the time. Most players wouldn't bother. Also, if dirt only drops 1 clay ball 100% of the time using a Fortune III shovel, then only 1/4 the amount of clay blocks could be made as there was in dirt blocks... so, there is a further "net loss" of material there.
Gravel itself is already unlimited since it is available in the nether (which is resettable), so flint is already available in unlimited amounts (even without villager trading). Also, the need for flint is pretty minimal, particularly if you enchant your bows and get infinity now and then.
There is currently a thread going about Flatland Survival maps. Currently, there is no way to introduce clay into a superflat map without going into creative mode. Adding a chance of dirt dropping clay balls would facilitate this sort of survival game quite nicely.
I agree with the hope that they may discover more uses for flint in the future. Personally, I don't enchant shovels normally and only craft stone ones (which are quick enough for me). If I did happen to enchant a shovel and it comes up "fortune", I'd probably just throw it away to avoid the preponderance of useless flint. Even without fortune, I have chests full of the stuff in many of my worlds... just through basic mining and replacing the gravel pathways in the villages with wooden walkways (which endermen can't carry off). I also basically use the gravel blocks just as landfill.
In most other editions of MC, each piece of Flint obtained means one block of Gravel is lost forever. Because Clay is (currently) such a limited resource, I suggested Dirt blocks occasionally dropping Clay balls because there is generally more Dirt than Gravel available in a world, anyway.
As for the Fortune Enchantment, I think it should have a different effect on Dirt-to-Clay than it has on Gravel-to-Flint. UpUp_Away95 makes a good point about Gravel being "unlimited" due to the Nether Reset Option. Dirt, on the other hand, is limited. Rather than each Level of Fortune increasing the odds of dropping Clay, I suggest increasing the amount of drop, when it happens. In other words ... Non-enchanted Shovels digging Dirt would occasionally drop 1 Clay ball, Fortune I shovels would drop 2 Clay balls, Fortune II Shovels would drop 3 Clay balls, and Fortune III Shovels would drop 4 Clay balls. So, with a Fortune III Shovel, you'll get the equivalent of 1 Clay Block per occasional drop. This allows for Clay to be renewable, to an extent, and the Enchantment doesn't destroy as many Dirt blocks the way it does to Gravel. It also gives the player more control over his/her own inventory. Dirt can continue to be dug until you get the amount of Clay you desire. Unlike, as mentioned, ending up with Chests full of Flint that you have no use for.
Stay fluffy~
Ugh, bad idea. That would mean needing to gather too many resources to enchant. (Obsidian, diamonds, books(leather, sugar cane), wood for bookshelves) I say simply leave clay alone.
The thing with clay balls vs. flint is that clay balls can readily be turned back into clay blocks. Flint can't be turned back into gravel blocks. If the clay isn't needed, people can always convert the balls back into blocks and use the blocks as landfill (or in building a mesa landscape as part of a terraforming project if they want). Also, clay and clay bricks can be readily used as basic building materials, so I think people in general would have a higher demand for clay than they do for flint currently.
I can see Phoenix's concern that he would prefer a better control as to whether you get clay or not.
I could go with: