I've been wanting to build a home in the nether, but wondering what crops are best in there; I've thought about melon block growth: Melon STEM growth is affected by whether they are on (and surrounded by) hydrated or dehydrated farmland, just like almost every other crop. But the Wiki(s) never specifically state whether it affects melon BLOCK Growth. Does it?
According to this page on the Wiki the presence of farmland does affect the production rate:
The growth rate of melon and pumpkin stems and the spawning of melon and pumpkin fruit is determined by the same growth rate algorithm as for wheat, carrots, and potatoes. The stem itself has 8 phases of growth until maturity. Bone meal may be used to accelerate growth.
The maximum probability of fruit production from a single stem would, therefore, require a stem in hydrated farmland with hydrated farmland on all eight sides, with four of those farmland blocks remaining unplanted (the corners may be planted with some other crop). Practical farms will often accept reduced per-plant production rates (2/3, 1/3, or even 1/6 of the maximum) for greater space efficiency and ease of harvest.
Note that it is not practical to have dry farmland in the Nether as it will quickly revert to dirt unless planted, and you need unplanted farmland to maximize production. In this case, the growth probability is 1/23 or about 4%, about 8 times slower than optimal conditions:
For the fastest growth per seed, a full layer of hydrated farmland with crops in rows is ideal. Under these conditions, the probability of growth during each update is 1/3, or approximately 33%. Most (4/5) planted crops reach maturity within 31 minutes (about 1.5 minecraft days). In fact, 31 minutes is very close to the ideal time at which to harvest if an auto-farming system is set to a timer, precisely 31 minutes and 3.14 seconds.
The worst case would be two crops diagonally adjacent on dry farmland (all other surrounding blocks being non-farmland) which has a growth probability of 1/23, about 4%.
Note that unlike the stems themselves melons have no growth stages (they produce on the next tick after reaching maturity and harvesting does not reset the growth of the stem) so the production rate will be much faster than indicated (the stems themselves will take close to 4 hours to grow (31 * (1/3 / 1/23) = ~238 minutes) while fruit will take 1/8 of this time or about 30 minutes; in both cases, for 4/5 of crops to grow, the optimal time to harvest crops, although if you harvest fruit as soon as it appears the efficiency will be higher than for wheat/etc. The worst-case growth rate of 1/23 may also not be the growth rate for a row of stems surrounded by non-farmland blocks (you do need dirt or grass next to the melons).
By "they produce on the next tick after reaching maturity", do you mean they start to have a chance to produce a block once they reach maturity? Also, in summary, it does follow the exact same formula when producing a block, just like as the stem grows?
By "they produce on the next tick after reaching maturity", do you mean they start to have a chance to produce a block once they reach maturity? Also, in summary, it does follow the exact same formula when producing a block, just like as the stem grows?
Yes; by this measure they have 9 growth stages starting from seeding, 8 for the stem to grow and one for the fruit to appear, afterwards it is effectively one (fruit will reappear on the first tick after a harvest so the time between fruit will be 1/8 of the time for the stem to mature; because of this, you never want to harvest and replant the stem); in either case the chance of a growth attempt is based on the surrounding blocks (whether the ground is farmland and how crops are placed). Here is the method from the game's code that determines whether a melon or pumpkin stem can grow or produce fruit:
public void updateTick(World par1World, int par2, int par3, int par4, Random par5Random)
{
super.updateTick(par1World, par2, par3, par4, par5Random);
// Light level must be at least 9 for crops to grow
if (par1World.getBlockLightValue(par2, par3 + 1, par4) >= 9)
{
// Calculates growth chance, based on surrounding farmland and crop blocks
float var6 = this.getGrowthModifier(par1World, par2, par3, par4);
if (par5Random.nextInt((int)(25.0F / var6) + 1) == 0)
{
int var7 = par1World.getBlockMetadata(par2, par3, par4);
if (var7 < 7)
{
// Increments growth stage of stem, up to a maximum of 7 (8 stages from 0-7)
++var7;
par1World.setBlockMetadataWithNotify(par2, par3, par4, var7, 2);
}
else
{
// Checks for fruit adjacent to stem; will only produce if there are no blocks
if (par1World.getBlockId(par2 - 1, par3, par4) == this.fruitType.blockID) return;
if (par1World.getBlockId(par2 + 1, par3, par4) == this.fruitType.blockID) return;
if (par1World.getBlockId(par2, par3, par4 - 1) == this.fruitType.blockID) return;
if (par1World.getBlockId(par2, par3, par4 + 1) == this.fruitType.blockID) return;
int var9 = par2;
int var10 = par4;
// Randomly chooses a side where fruit will appear (all four sides must be clear
// for maximum production)
int var8 = par5Random.nextInt(4);
if (var8 == 0) var9 = par2 - 1;
if (var8 == 1) ++var9;
if (var8 == 2) var10 = par4 - 1;
if (var8 == 3) ++var10;
// Places a fruit in an air block over dirt, grass, or farmland
int var11 = par1World.getBlockId(var9, par3 - 1, var10);
if (par1World.isAirBlock(var9, par3, var10) && (var11 == Block.tilledField.blockID || var11 == Block.dirt.blockID || var11 == Block.grass.blockID))
{
par1World.setBlock(var9, par3, var10, this.fruitType.blockID);
}
}
}
}
}
This also shows that for maximum production all four blocks adjacent to the stem need to be air blocks over dirt, grass, or farmland; a stem will also only produce more fruit if all four spaces do not already have fruit (e.g. if you have a row of stems with space to the sides of the row the production rate will be half as high as a checkerboard of stems, assuming you harvest fruit as soon as they appear; since they grow by random block updates there can be as many as 3 growth attempts in a single tick so any delay in harvesting will reduce production).
Therefore, it DOES matter if farmland is hydrated for block production as it still uses the normal growth algorithm when doing so (Just uses if statement to detect last stem state) Got it. So just as useless as every other crop in the nether! (But 1.17 with lichen may allow for water in nether pog)
So just as useless as every other crop in the nether!
Uh no? Crops still grow without water, just more slowly, and since melons only need a single block update to produce fruit after the stem has matured and the stem doesn't need to be harvested and replanted they will produce far faster than any other crop (in fact, 8 times faster).
Also, I decided to check the actual chances by modifying the game to print out the growth chance; for a single crop on a single block of dry farmland the chance was 1/13 while a row was 1/11 (but the chance of producing a melon is only 1/22 since there are only two out of four spaces available). A 1/13 chance means an average of one melon every 14.8 minutes, which is much better then even the best-case scenario for other crops in rows on hydrated farmland (a chance of 1/3 and 8 growth stages means an average of 27.3 minutes to fully grow. This is actually worse than a row of melons on dry farmland, about one every 25 minutes). The worst-case 1/23 chance mentioned in the Wiki only happened when I placed two crops diagonally adjacent to each other. The only real issue is how long it will take for the stem to mature (close to 2 hours with a 1/13 chance) but you can bonemeal it, which works just as well regardless of the random growth probability.
In addition, I planted 10 melons spaced apart and 3 of them produced within 4 minutes, a rate which would have all 10 produce within about 13 minutes (the fact that used I a modded version of 1.6.4 is irrelevant if the information on the Wiki is still accurate as I found the same probabilities that it gave):
The first screenshot was taken right after planting; you can see the time in the upper-left:
I found this The Minecraft wiki states (I've tried only wheat and watermelon) that all farmland crops can be grown in the Nether (growth speed is decreased). ... Use a hoe to turn the dirt into farmland and plant the watermelon seeds. Use bonemeal to speed up the growing.
It's really just useless in the nether it can be set on fire by a ghast or blaze and lose all your stuff so just do it in the overworld instead it will be easier and making a house is really useless yo can't sleep your house might burn down by a ghast or blaze also so just stick with the overworld just my opinion
I've been wanting to build a home in the nether, but wondering what crops are best in there; I've thought about melon block growth: Melon STEM growth is affected by whether they are on (and surrounded by) hydrated or dehydrated farmland, just like almost every other crop. But the Wiki(s) never specifically state whether it affects melon BLOCK Growth. Does it?
According to this page on the Wiki the presence of farmland does affect the production rate:
Note that it is not practical to have dry farmland in the Nether as it will quickly revert to dirt unless planted, and you need unplanted farmland to maximize production. In this case, the growth probability is 1/23 or about 4%, about 8 times slower than optimal conditions:
Note that unlike the stems themselves melons have no growth stages (they produce on the next tick after reaching maturity and harvesting does not reset the growth of the stem) so the production rate will be much faster than indicated (the stems themselves will take close to 4 hours to grow (31 * (1/3 / 1/23) = ~238 minutes) while fruit will take 1/8 of this time or about 30 minutes; in both cases, for 4/5 of crops to grow, the optimal time to harvest crops, although if you harvest fruit as soon as it appears the efficiency will be higher than for wheat/etc. The worst-case growth rate of 1/23 may also not be the growth rate for a row of stems surrounded by non-farmland blocks (you do need dirt or grass next to the melons).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
By "they produce on the next tick after reaching maturity", do you mean they start to have a chance to produce a block once they reach maturity? Also, in summary, it does follow the exact same formula when producing a block, just like as the stem grows?
Yes; by this measure they have 9 growth stages starting from seeding, 8 for the stem to grow and one for the fruit to appear, afterwards it is effectively one (fruit will reappear on the first tick after a harvest so the time between fruit will be 1/8 of the time for the stem to mature; because of this, you never want to harvest and replant the stem); in either case the chance of a growth attempt is based on the surrounding blocks (whether the ground is farmland and how crops are placed). Here is the method from the game's code that determines whether a melon or pumpkin stem can grow or produce fruit:
public void updateTick(World par1World, int par2, int par3, int par4, Random par5Random) { super.updateTick(par1World, par2, par3, par4, par5Random); // Light level must be at least 9 for crops to grow if (par1World.getBlockLightValue(par2, par3 + 1, par4) >= 9) { // Calculates growth chance, based on surrounding farmland and crop blocks float var6 = this.getGrowthModifier(par1World, par2, par3, par4); if (par5Random.nextInt((int)(25.0F / var6) + 1) == 0) { int var7 = par1World.getBlockMetadata(par2, par3, par4); if (var7 < 7) { // Increments growth stage of stem, up to a maximum of 7 (8 stages from 0-7) ++var7; par1World.setBlockMetadataWithNotify(par2, par3, par4, var7, 2); } else { // Checks for fruit adjacent to stem; will only produce if there are no blocks if (par1World.getBlockId(par2 - 1, par3, par4) == this.fruitType.blockID) return; if (par1World.getBlockId(par2 + 1, par3, par4) == this.fruitType.blockID) return; if (par1World.getBlockId(par2, par3, par4 - 1) == this.fruitType.blockID) return; if (par1World.getBlockId(par2, par3, par4 + 1) == this.fruitType.blockID) return; int var9 = par2; int var10 = par4; // Randomly chooses a side where fruit will appear (all four sides must be clear // for maximum production) int var8 = par5Random.nextInt(4); if (var8 == 0) var9 = par2 - 1; if (var8 == 1) ++var9; if (var8 == 2) var10 = par4 - 1; if (var8 == 3) ++var10; // Places a fruit in an air block over dirt, grass, or farmland int var11 = par1World.getBlockId(var9, par3 - 1, var10); if (par1World.isAirBlock(var9, par3, var10) && (var11 == Block.tilledField.blockID || var11 == Block.dirt.blockID || var11 == Block.grass.blockID)) { par1World.setBlock(var9, par3, var10, this.fruitType.blockID); } } } } }This also shows that for maximum production all four blocks adjacent to the stem need to be air blocks over dirt, grass, or farmland; a stem will also only produce more fruit if all four spaces do not already have fruit (e.g. if you have a row of stems with space to the sides of the row the production rate will be half as high as a checkerboard of stems, assuming you harvest fruit as soon as they appear; since they grow by random block updates there can be as many as 3 growth attempts in a single tick so any delay in harvesting will reduce production).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Therefore, it DOES matter if farmland is hydrated for block production as it still uses the normal growth algorithm when doing so (Just uses if statement to detect last stem state) Got it. So just as useless as every other crop in the nether! (But 1.17 with lichen may allow for water in nether pog)
Uh no? Crops still grow without water, just more slowly, and since melons only need a single block update to produce fruit after the stem has matured and the stem doesn't need to be harvested and replanted they will produce far faster than any other crop (in fact, 8 times faster).
Also, I decided to check the actual chances by modifying the game to print out the growth chance; for a single crop on a single block of dry farmland the chance was 1/13 while a row was 1/11 (but the chance of producing a melon is only 1/22 since there are only two out of four spaces available). A 1/13 chance means an average of one melon every 14.8 minutes, which is much better then even the best-case scenario for other crops in rows on hydrated farmland (a chance of 1/3 and 8 growth stages means an average of 27.3 minutes to fully grow. This is actually worse than a row of melons on dry farmland, about one every 25 minutes). The worst-case 1/23 chance mentioned in the Wiki only happened when I placed two crops diagonally adjacent to each other. The only real issue is how long it will take for the stem to mature (close to 2 hours with a 1/13 chance) but you can bonemeal it, which works just as well regardless of the random growth probability.
In addition, I planted 10 melons spaced apart and 3 of them produced within 4 minutes, a rate which would have all 10 produce within about 13 minutes (the fact that used I a modded version of 1.6.4 is irrelevant if the information on the Wiki is still accurate as I found the same probabilities that it gave):
The first melon appeared about a minute later:
Another appeared about two minutes later:
A third grew within 4 minutes of planting:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
It's really just useless in the nether it can be set on fire by a ghast or blaze and lose all your stuff so just do it in the overworld instead it will be easier and making a house is really useless yo can't sleep your house might burn down by a ghast or blaze also so just stick with the overworld just my opinion