First, I want to say a BIG thank you to Lilariel and Cthulhu725 for thinking this up and keeping it alive for so long. I have never in my Minecraft life been so excited about the game as I have been since discovering this challenge.
This is quite an amazing challenge and it is such a change of pace from playing FTB or Solitarycraft. I really wanted a pure experience when I tried this, so I braved the jump to the recent (and not yet heavily modded) 1.7.4 Minecraft. I ended up blessing an acacia tree, which has proven to be... interesting. I had some close calls with zombies and starvation, but I mustered through and now have the beginnings of a massive tree with many farms nestled inside its roots. I have no lack of food, so I can begin to expand the influence of my little Godling.
This challenge has got my mind buzzing with mod possibilities. I have read through all 1441 posts in this thread, as well as all links with relevant offshoot information, and have begun to compile many ideas for a mod. I saw that an old mod was developed by MythicManiac, and that there was a semi-recent update by another modder (that I now cannot locate). Still, I think there is something missing. The challenge is incredible at its base, but there are some inconsistencies with the lore and the implementation. Dryads, specifically Hamadryads, are a living part of their trees. Food shouldn't be a consideration, at least not in the conventional sense. The heart of the tree should provide sustenance, assuming of course that it is itself in good health. After all, you and the tree are one. A spirit of the tree shouldn't have such trouble navigating on its wood: it should be able to pass right through it if needed (no more doors on trees!!), or scale the bark and leaves as if they were ladders (no more dirt towers to get that last log!). Photosynthesis and bioluminescence should also play a role here, as having torches inside a tree seems absurd and the sun should play an important role as well. A craftable light source that isn't a torch and could be fairly easily obtained through trees is an easy fix. Harder to fix are the enforcement rules for the mod. I think having some kind of configurable level of enforcement would be required, as may people do like to change up the rules (as they should!). At least I have a solid page of notes and ideas brainstormed.
I have been dabbling at programming over the years. Most of my experience is with Python, but I have a basic understanding of C++. Close enough to Java that I feel like starting to learn and begin to mod. For over a year now I have waited for inspiration to strike me as to what a good mod could be -- I think this is it.
Side note: I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of a tree's roots "mining" for ores, as real life plants use all manner of trace minerals and elements in their makeup. As an example, plants use iron in the construction of chlorophyll. I only mention this because some people seemed to think that metals were un-treelike. I'm not saying you should coat the tree in iron blocks or anything... not unless you want to, of course.
Wow, this sounds really hard.
I'll go one step further and do this challenge on a pvp server, where I'll even have other players as a danger to my home tree.
First, I want to say a BIG thank you to Lilariel and Cthulhu725 for thinking this up and keeping it alive for so long. I have never in my Minecraft life been so excited about the game as I have been since discovering this challenge.
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Side note: I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of a tree's roots "mining" for ores, as real life plants use all manner of trace minerals and elements in their makeup. As an example, plants use iron in the construction of chlorophyll. I only mention this because some people seemed to think that metals were un-treelike. I'm not saying you should coat the tree in iron blocks or anything... not unless you want to, of course.
Ah! Nice to see someone interested in trying to make an updated mod for this challenge. I had a personal dislike of the one made when this challenge was first created, so I just didn't use it or have experience with it, but I would love to see what you come up with and how you go about your plans for the mod.
As a biologist I like seeing your ideas regarding food and ores. Also, the ideas concerning lighting, doors, and climbing. While I do not know of much coding other than the basics (which I learned over 6 years ago and tossed out of my head soon after learning) I hope you can figure out how to achieve that. If anything, there could also be plant based machines that could be made whose designs could be based off the biochemical properties of chlorophyll, or that water is transported easily up trees through special cells (essentially a vertical piping system). Basically if you want to make a recipe for something that is based off reality in a way I could be your girl.
I would love to give you ideas or help you bounce things around for the mod if you ever need help or want some ideas/suggestions. I currently have just under 3 years of experience with this challenge, with almost 1 year of being a moderator for a TSC server. On the server I have a couple friends who have minor experience in coding and I think we as a group in general could give you some great feed back, as well as provide a way to beta your mod if you are interested.
Thanks for the feedback! I went on vacation this past week, and then had the good fortune to get sick with the ever-present flu. Seriously, been sick like four times this winter... anyway, had many great ideas compiled while on my trip, so now it's just a matter of buckling down and getting something produced. I'm in no serious rush to get going on the mod due to Forge 1.7 being a little delayed. I'm aiming for 1.7 for this mod, though that may be short-sighted. At least this gives me a chance to learn the syntax and core libraries of Java. Have two little kiddo's to keep track of, so the process may be a bit longer than I would like.
I don't want to just put out a list of the million changes to the game that I want to make. I have seen that done with no resulting mod. Trying to keep my energy and interest invested into this, and if a little vagueness keeps me inspired then so be it I do want to be careful to strike a balance between what would be 'natural' and what is actually fun to play with. I don't want to adhere so close to reality that the mod becomes a huge chore. I mean, we are talking about spirits here. However, I am one that likes a clearly defined system of things, rather than the hand-wave of 'its magic, so it just works'. It will be a thin line to walk, but I like a challenge. I will probably do incremental beta releases of the mod over a period of time.
The primary idea that I have bouncing around is probably one of the biggest hurdles that needs to be surmounted: I want the player to be able to choose any kind of tree as their spirit tree, yet still allow the mod to distinguish between the chosen tree / it's daughters and other not genetically related trees. Spirit wood vs dead wood. I figure that I could let the player do the usual punching tree and leaves, collect logs and saplings, then designate the heart of the tree (maybe through a one-time use item? right-click dependent on nbt data flag spirit-tree-active=false?), which would then activate the mods enforcement of being close to the tree and its roots without consequences. The consequences and level of enforcement will definitely be configurable. To distinguish spirit vs non-spirit wood and saplings I would need to change the id's or damage values to make them functionally incompatible and easily distinguished by the mod, but still allow the same look and feel of whatever natural tree the player choose. I don't wan to force some particular aesthetic choice on the player, as Lilariel pointed out as a negative previously.
I suggest being very careful when exploring caves and such (mind you it'll take a while to get to that point). When first starting out, if you can, just stick to making a strip mine. If you're going to cave I suggest watching some Mindcrack UHC vids to get ideas of how to minimize the encounters you'll have while caving since you'll be limited to moving along your roots. Also, if a cave ends up having too many monsters, and you can get far enough away for them to despawn, I'd do so.
For beginning the best thing you can probably do is make a 3x3x4 dirt thing
with a hole in the top encasing you and your heart log, with having at least 1 dirt and 1 log always on hand. The hole in the top will allow you generally to kill spiders while not getting attacked. The extra dirt will help to poke out holes in your dirt encasing to make sure there are no creepers around while being able to quickly replace it if there are (make sure to dig at an angle so that IF there is a creeper you can immediately place the block without worrying about there not being a block there to place your dirt with). You could also use the dirt as a hit and run tactic to punch the creeper outside your hideyhole and then immediately cover yourself back up afterwards.
The extra log (or two once you're further along) will help you jump up and peak around and is essentially used for scouting the area. To see whether or not it's safe further away from you once you've cleared the immediate area around your dirt fort. You've gotta be really careful with where your tree is because if you do this a creeper can still potentially see you and blow up. So make sure to check all sides of your dirt hut before going out.
In general, leave zombies alone, do not attack. Let them burn up in the light of the sun, then use their flesh for food ONLY when you're about to starve or you're really low on health and have enough flesh to get to full. Otherwise wait till you have a farm to eat regularly.
If you can, when in your hole jump and look around and if you see a skeleton try lure them over to you by peaking out, letting them path your way and then holing yourself in for the night, also letting them burn up in the light of day for their bones and arrows.
After a while you'll have a two high trunk and in general will be fine from all but spiders. That's why you'll keep your dirt hut until you have a roof over your head.
In general, basic stuff, but there are little tricks to it. You may have to make your own bag of tricks, or learn stuff as you go. For me personally hardcore is WAY too hard, but I wish you luck in trying it out.
Taking some time off the castle challenge to try this one. First night I hid in my dirt box with a hole on top for spiders. I got 1 amd it dropped 2 strings! The next day and night 2 i spent fishing in a pond just close enough i could fish in it. Caught 2 fish and 2 salmon. Third day my 2 original saplings both grew. Expanded out slightly to reach more animals (sheep specifically) and tall grass. Replanted the 6 saplings. Third night. 6 zombies, a spider, and 5 creepers decided to gang up on my poor little tree. It is no more.
Question about using vines. If I get 1 vine from a tree is the swamps, can I use that on the outside of the tree and have it grow? I have spread into the swamps with my saplings, but they don't produce their own vines. This would make it much easier to get around my tree and to add branches (I'm at this point)
I would say that vines are allowed to be used instead of ladders as long as you only climb on them when each section is connected to your tree. Though, if you're gonna use them to stop yourself from taking fall damage I'd have to say that the spot where you're going to land must be connected to your tree, though the vine not necessarily.
In general vines are basically decoration and tools in my opinion. I have several spots set up around my current tree where there are vines growing, not always from my tree, but where if I were to jump off my tree, I'd hit the vines and land on my roots. e.g.: Jump off a branch, jungle tree growing below it, it has vines, land in the vines, land on my root that goes right by the jungle tree that said vines are growing on. You could also argue that you could jump off your tree and into a pool of water that is held by your roots, but that takes a bit more time and effort to get out of the pool than to just walk out of the vine.
ok, @Kathyrria, I've posted on this challenge a while ago, and got some responce from the original creator, but I kinda wanna get YOUR oppinion on it. A while back, I talked about changing some textures to look more "wood like". mainly sheep, seeing as how you can get 16 different colors from them. Anyway, what I'm getting at is: what if I capture a sheep (after making it out to one) and bring it back into my Tree, then I keep it there with a lead, fence, and name tag (because that keeps 'em from despawning). If its a white sheep that'll be the best, because I can easily dye it all colors. now for the real thing:
I was going to (try) texture the wools acordingly:
White: Old Growth bark (i'll be basing all off of oak logs, I'll try and make them semi-compatable with the others, or maybe the Heart Wood)
Light Grey: lighter Old Growht
Grey: Matured Bark (maybe mossy?)
Black: New Bark
Red: Heart Wood
Pink: Heart Wood (darker or lighter?)
Green: Sap Veins (ya know, because tree's have "veins" in them. this would be good for making quick transportation out)
Yellow: Core Wood (light ring)
Orange: Core Wood (dark ring)
Blue: lighter Sap Vein (maybe a water vein)
Light Blue: Root 1
Cyan: Root 2
Purple: Root 3
Lime: Moss
Magenta: (maybe I'll make this the heart? or Old growth bark)
Finally Brown: Rooty Dirt (maybe the dirt texture with bits of wood texture on it, used in deep root systems)
I was also thinking about re-texturing Obsidian or maybe Stonebricks (all types) to be a "fire resistant wood"
Obsidian: Petrified Stone
Stone Bricks: Fire Resistant Bark
Cracked Bricks: Chared Bark
Circle Bricks: Knot (ya know, because most all tree's have knots in them)
So, let me know what you think, i'm going to do it, and (if I can figure out how) if you think this would work I'll post a copy of the wools for everyone, and if not, then if enough people ask, I'll post it (if that becomes true, it'll be for the "easy" version of the mod, or for those who want a little more detail/exitement for their world)
So here is what I have. I decided against the vines as they would cause me to have to change my design too much from how I have it now to get all the way to the top. Ill just go up from the inside.
My root system:
I made it to the swamps:
Which is where I found these guys:
The base floor of my tree. The heart log is in the middle. I have sugar cane, wheat and potatoes:
Under the base of my tree is my mushroom farm. It's slightly off centered so even if a creeper says hi it won't reach my heart log:
My main root. I plan on making it much bigger. I goes to level 12. If I found any ore I branched off and had my root actually touch the ores to mine them:
My tree has 4 floors (counting the top, and not underneath). My bed is on the second floor and there is nothing else on the other two floors. I didn't find sheep so it took a while to get a bed because I used the string from spiders for a fishing pole early in the challenge and I have met fewer spiders than anything else:
And lastly, the outside of my tree. I am currently working on making the canopy go higher in the center since right now it is kinda just a big frisbee type shape:
My entrance is a 1 block jump that has a gate behind the block so from the outside it looks like a 1 block hole but you can still get in and out. I don't remember who posted it, but I am using the technique where you cut down the tree and leave the bottom block to spread but I break the dirt block below it and replace it with a log so my roots are "in the ground."
Any suggestions to make it look better, easier to get around, etc...
@Drakoflame I think that for the more artistic side of the challenge that changing the wool textures is a cool idea. The main thing would be making sure that there's a basic understanding of which wool is which type of decorative tree bits. I suggest using a slight (very slight) tint for each decorative block with the original wool color would be an interesting, though possibly unappealing for certain wool colors, thing to do.
Will you be able to tell by looking at the sheep which tree decoration it will be, or will the sheep look like a normal colored sheep until you shear it and see the drops? Do you have the experience yourself, or do you know someone, or need help finding someone to make the textures for these decorative blocks both repeatable and able to stick beside other blocks without looking weird? I have minimal pixeling experience but could probably either help with this or find someone who is capable to help with this endeavor. Would you be interested in making the 'ring' textures link together? What about someone who doesn't want to use the traditional oak tree?
I think you should leave obsidian the way it is in vanilla, but with the stone bricks and stuff I think it's reasonable to re-texture them to be 'fire-resistant' wood.
@jrmysell To make it easier to get around you could probably place some of your surface roots further apart. I find that I can run jump to roots that are 3 blocks apart relatively easily. After a certain point you should not need to have all your roots that close together anyways. If you find that you like to get to other roots more quickly from certain locations you can make the roots connect into each other too. It's not required that they just go out and not interact with each other at all.
Another thing, for me, I used to make my roots the way you've been doing them: always having one right next to the other when going in a diagonal direction. I've since changed the way I do this (see spoiler below). Having had experience with pixeling has lead me to see how you can have a 'line' without having each pixel directly connected to the other. I can post a set of pictures about my personal rules regarding root placement later if you'd like.
I have found that placing my roots on lvl 11 and mining that way has lead to more diamonds than on lvl 12.
To make it look better you could probably start putting out branches in your canopy that gradually go out further than the ones below. After time this will mean you'll need to expand your trunk and or get rid of or edit the lower branches, but that's part of building a tree. If you want it to look a bit more natural while you're building your trunk wider, if you find you've made a mistake take a step back and look at it. If you think it doesn't look horrible leave it there and build around it, or add to it. It can help give your tree more character.
There are also some pretty great trees made in minecraft using some editing tools and if you find that you want to try a different look you can always use those images as references or guides. In the end it's all about fun. You may want to try telling a story with your tree. Is it sad? If so perhaps it would lean over sideways a lot and have lots of vines, like a weeping willow. Is it a strong tree? Perhaps it would have a thick trunk and large roots and branches coming off of it. There are many ways you can go. Your tree appears to be very systematically taking over it's area, and sticking to a very geometric pattern. Perhaps try making your tree branches obey certain rules as you build them.
*goes to pull up pictures of part of her current tree*
These are in sequential order. I personally like to make many trees from my one tree. I've currently only been working on one, but plan on making others. This is on the TSC server that my friend Mailleweaver runs. If you're interested please check out our forum: http://treecrafters.forumotion.com/
"Will you be able to tell by looking at the sheep which tree decoration it will be, or will the sheep look like a normal colored sheep until you shear it and see the drops? Do you have the experience yourself, or do you know someone, or need help finding someone to make the textures for these decorative blocks both repeatable and able to stick beside other blocks without looking weird?"
(sorry, messed up the quote thingy)
@Kathyrria
I have kinda... poor texturing skills. As well, I have already replaced the textures and I'm happy with a few, and sad at the rest. The "ring" textures wouldn't really be a connected texture, I think that if I were to actualy turn it into a texturepack would take me a while, but I would actually be willing to put in some time to learn how and maybe even learn how to use the MCP Connected Texture thing, it would make the texture look better (with the "veins" having an animated or a connected texture/random texture to give it a bit of 'spice'). Right now I have it set up so yellow and orange wool are "ring" pieces, with orange being the dark ring and yellow being the light one. I have them set up around my "heart" to look like the rings of a tree. (but because of the lack of CT, their a solid block of one color). I've also retextured the Red Wool to be a kind of "heart wood", having a bright red texture, "replacing" my heart, and I am currently working on thinking of idea's on how I"m going to grow up, and keep it "realistic". I've also desided while doing my textures, to darken cactus a bit and turn them into "thorns" so now if you have some sand and a few cacti, you can grow "thorns" around your trunk. As for not wanting to use the original oak wood, I think my textures are vague enough, the only problem is that the petrified wood, new bark (I think thats it, I don't have the textures on hand atm), and possibly the vein textures might not be compatable, but I think people could make them work. The ring textures are actualy altered birch and oak wood planks, so they should work (if your using 1.6.4 and below, because the 4 types are sorta similar, you can use the
pink and red wool (faided heart, bright heart) for the rings in the jungle tree, and use the other two as the "heart").
And, now that all that random goodness is gone, maybe you could help me find someone to help make textures as mine are....... well.... anyway, I can work on making some items look a bit more "woody". I was thinking that maybe I could turn one of (or all) the plank textures into "shaved logs" and you could use those as interior blocks and be able to walk on them, seeing as their part of your tree, but then I thought "no... that wouldn't really work because when it comes to it, how do you tell between other tree planks and YOUR tree's planks..." and I thought "well if I knew how to us the MCP meta data thingy or whatever, I could set oak, birch, spruce, and jungle "shaved logs" do meta's 8,9,10,11. but that would be hard to get without use /give..." so, if you can think of a good substatute I'd love to hear it. Perhaps using that one mod that adds a billion different blocks that can be re-textured, or even using the Chisle mod and re-texturing a few of the blocks (the wools would work best for that as you use 8 wool 1 string and get 8 of the Chisle wool back). While I'm on the subject of textures, I was thinking maybe of making the wood tools look more barky, changing sheep to look like little wood sprites, cows might look like beatles which then drop beetle shells that you can craft into armor and things. I'd really like to also learn how to actualy change the names of the blocks so I don't have to guess "oh, crud, what did I call white wool again? oh yea, Heart Logs", so maybe you can help there as well?
Alright, thats it for todays Text Wall, comb thru that and find interesting tidbits and let me know what ya think!
So, I've been playing with this concept, mostly building an acacia tree in the latest vanilla snapshot,and wondering how the rules would actually be enforced if you all did have a current mod. I'm curious if I'm trying it the same way you are. What I see (and have been pretending at) is:
1: Begin the challenge in a new world, using any seed you like. Alternatively if you want to play in your main world, drop everything you have in a chest and run far into the wilderness without picking up anything.
2: Pick a single tree of any type, in any area, and harvest all saplings and logs from it except the bottom Log, which will become your Heart-log. (If you're extremely unlucky and the tree drops no saplings at all, just punch leaves on other nearby trees until you get one, or simply dump your logs and pick a new tree.) When you have done this, jump onto the Heart-log to begin the challenge proper!
Players start with an item to bond to a tree. This item might be somehow craft-able to allow players to join the fun in an existing world, but its use wipes your inventory.
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3: You cannot move away from your tree. You cannot dig or mine blocks or items unless you are standing on, or directly next to either a log or leaves directly connected to your Heart-log through other logs. Pretend that you at all times need to be able to reach out an arm and touch a log or a leaf belonging to your tree, whether the log is above, under, or beside you. This includes killing animals too, you can't run off your tree to go hunting! You can however leave the log a few seconds to pick up the fallen blocks, but only to collect the items, not to mine or travel further away. And since it's a common question: Jumping is allowed!
Moving out of contact with your tree's logs/leaves works like being underwater (short grace period, then you take damage until you die) - depending on difficulty, the amount of 'bubbles' could be cut per step away from Peaceful.
The left-click option is disabled when not within 1 block of your tree's logs/leaves.
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4: You can chop other trees down, but you cannot use wood from a tree that is not the offspring of the first saplings you harvested. If you must chop down other trees, throw it's logs and saplings away, or turn the logs into planks, sticks or charcoal, or any other otherwise "dead" material. A tree cannot grow by absorbing other trees after all. It can only conquer them!
Logs/leaves are tree-specific, in case you didn't guess. Build whatever you want, but only your tree's type of logs/leaves will count for contact.
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5: >snip < 6: >snip< 7:
As always, it's better to try to play in-character to what you're doing, and having a mod that would distinguish your heartwood would be best.
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1: "Hardcore mode" - If you die even just one single time, the challenge is lost, and you must start over again. You should try to aim for this challenge when you begin even if it's optional
You dying kills your tree. Not sure I really like this one, but... meh.
2:Build a working fireplace inside your tree!
Play with fire at your own risk, for extra street-cred with the other tree-spirits. :-p
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3: Reach the Nether! Grow roots "through" the portal by placing roots at both sides of it, and expand your tree into the furnace of hell itself.
Building roots through portals should be possible.
So what I'm noticing here is that your heart-log should essentially send out something like a redstone current which travels indefinitely through its tree-type's logs and leaves and is used to test if you're in touch with your tree. If you leave your tree, you can't do much of anything to the world around you, and you soon begin to die. Since this is a challenge, there are currently no perks to being a tree-spirit.
As an added curiosity, I've been contemplating how to make this mesh with regular Survival so that you could have dryads and regular players coexist. I'm thinking that the dryads should get essentially beacon benefits from their tree, dependent upon how much tree they have, and the ability to share their beacon-perks with others whilst in contact with their tree (so they can bless others for the good of their tree). Making a dryad essentially a thinking beacon would be a great reason for non-dryads to want to keep them around, while limiting them to their trees would make the non-dryads feel that they've got something else to counter the perks of being a tree-spirit.
As a small change that I think would greatly enhance the playstyle, I would also like to see saplings plant-able on their own type of log with placement like torches, so that you can grow branches without adding dirt up a tree (the tree would still grow like normal from that point, just not requiring dirt below it).
Has anybody else given the idea of how this challenge would mesh with normal Survival players any thought?
Can i use the logs from my original tree to make "dead" items? eg. stick, pickaxe
You can. Depending on where your tree is, your own logs may be your only source of wood. It's mostly just the fact that it's your own logs and you wanna use to grow your tree that keeps most from using their tree's wood to make 'dead' items.
You can. Depending on where your tree is, your own logs may be your only source of wood. It's mostly just the fact that it's your own logs and you wanna use to grow your tree that keeps most from using their tree's wood to make 'dead' items.
Wood quickly became a non-issue for me when I've tried this challenge - both with acacia in the newest snapshots and with oak on the PS3 version.
I started with cutting my tree down to the stump and gathering saplings, then immediately planted one sapling diagonally adjacent to the stump. Usually the first tree isn't enough logs to get far, so I save saplings and instead focus on a quick shelter while my second tree grows. Shelter starts as digging one block down next to the sapling, then continuing a spiral staircase down around the stump, extending a taproot down as needed - which is only one block if you essentially build a 3x3x2 hollow immediately under your stump.
You can usually harvest at least the next tree before sundown. I then replant and root out diagonally the opposite direction 5 blocks to plant a second sapling. That leaves enough wood to make a crafting table, 8 sticks, and 4 planks - plus one more down from the taproot. During the first night, you can make a pick and use it to continue the downward spiral - taking just enough time from the taproot to gather blocks that fell further down before returning to your tree. By daybreak, you should be able to manage your first stone tool(s) and a furnace. After this, one wood gets burned with two sticks for fuel to make charcoal, you make up some torches, and then move on to extending the tree-farm and the taproot-mine as you see fit. I like to have around 6-10 trees planted specifically to harvest (with a torch near each so they grow at night) and then start building up my tree-proper.
In my PC world, I've chosen an isolated area and have yet to see a single sheep - much to my disappointment. The desert on half the horizon certainly doesn't help. Still, by focusing on digging down my taproot early, I was able to find iron and make a bucket - vital to getting wheat growing at a reasonable rate for my own health. After my roots spread far enough, I started simply planting around my stump, preferring a mostly-naturaly appearance for my actual tree - I find that my 'built' trees just don't have an organic-enough feel to me, so I try to simply make do with how many sapling grow next to and on top of each other with very little modification to the external appearance.
After my tree got big enough around, the spiral staircase down around the taproot was extended up around the stump and central trunk as well - then I planted trees on dirt atop the tree, replacing the dirt with logs when the sapling grew. The problem I've had with this tree, though, is that it gets progressively wider as it goes up, rather than branching. Doesn't look quite right (despite being pretty cool). I highly recommend acacia for a vanilla world-tree - its branching growth-patterns and ability to grow adjacent to itself work well in my opinion.
In the PS3 version, I'm playing a tree which has 'adopted' a village - I'm building a castle-wall around the village out of my oaks, and the heartwood is at the base of the first corner tower. The root-system grows through the roads, and floors/walls/roofs are seeing blocks replaced by more oak as the village is made accessible to me by the spreading wood. When I'm done, the whole village will be invisible behind the tree from the outside, and I'll be able to casually walk among the humans of my village. It's been fun to work my patient takeover of the area.
Similar to the skyblock challenge, this setup encourages you to really think about efficient use of your resources, but I've found that part of that is to be practical about when you really should use your own tree's wood to make other things - which I think is really quite early. Crafting table, wood pick, stone pick, torches - these are all early acquisitions for me. Once the tree starts taking off, then you'll clear-cut other trees and be able to be picky about using other-tree-logs as the basis for your sticks and planks.
This is quite an amazing challenge and it is such a change of pace from playing FTB or Solitarycraft. I really wanted a pure experience when I tried this, so I braved the jump to the recent (and not yet heavily modded) 1.7.4 Minecraft. I ended up blessing an acacia tree, which has proven to be... interesting. I had some close calls with zombies and starvation, but I mustered through and now have the beginnings of a massive tree with many farms nestled inside its roots. I have no lack of food, so I can begin to expand the influence of my little Godling.
This challenge has got my mind buzzing with mod possibilities. I have read through all 1441 posts in this thread, as well as all links with relevant offshoot information, and have begun to compile many ideas for a mod. I saw that an old mod was developed by MythicManiac, and that there was a semi-recent update by another modder (that I now cannot locate). Still, I think there is something missing. The challenge is incredible at its base, but there are some inconsistencies with the lore and the implementation. Dryads, specifically Hamadryads, are a living part of their trees. Food shouldn't be a consideration, at least not in the conventional sense. The heart of the tree should provide sustenance, assuming of course that it is itself in good health. After all, you and the tree are one. A spirit of the tree shouldn't have such trouble navigating on its wood: it should be able to pass right through it if needed (no more doors on trees!!), or scale the bark and leaves as if they were ladders (no more dirt towers to get that last log!). Photosynthesis and bioluminescence should also play a role here, as having torches inside a tree seems absurd and the sun should play an important role as well. A craftable light source that isn't a torch and could be fairly easily obtained through trees is an easy fix. Harder to fix are the enforcement rules for the mod. I think having some kind of configurable level of enforcement would be required, as may people do like to change up the rules (as they should!). At least I have a solid page of notes and ideas brainstormed.
I have been dabbling at programming over the years. Most of my experience is with Python, but I have a basic understanding of C++. Close enough to Java that I feel like starting to learn and begin to mod. For over a year now I have waited for inspiration to strike me as to what a good mod could be -- I think this is it.
Side note: I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of a tree's roots "mining" for ores, as real life plants use all manner of trace minerals and elements in their makeup. As an example, plants use iron in the construction of chlorophyll. I only mention this because some people seemed to think that metals were un-treelike. I'm not saying you should coat the tree in iron blocks or anything... not unless you want to, of course.
edit: spelling...
I'll go one step further and do this challenge on a pvp server, where I'll even have other players as a danger to my home tree.
Ah! Nice to see someone interested in trying to make an updated mod for this challenge. I had a personal dislike of the one made when this challenge was first created, so I just didn't use it or have experience with it, but I would love to see what you come up with and how you go about your plans for the mod.
As a biologist I like seeing your ideas regarding food and ores. Also, the ideas concerning lighting, doors, and climbing. While I do not know of much coding other than the basics (which I learned over 6 years ago and tossed out of my head soon after learning) I hope you can figure out how to achieve that. If anything, there could also be plant based machines that could be made whose designs could be based off the biochemical properties of chlorophyll, or that water is transported easily up trees through special cells (essentially a vertical piping system). Basically if you want to make a recipe for something that is based off reality in a way I could be your girl.
I would love to give you ideas or help you bounce things around for the mod if you ever need help or want some ideas/suggestions. I currently have just under 3 years of experience with this challenge, with almost 1 year of being a moderator for a TSC server. On the server I have a couple friends who have minor experience in coding and I think we as a group in general could give you some great feed back, as well as provide a way to beta your mod if you are interested.
Feel free to message me, or visit our server's forum: http://treecrafters.forumotion.com/
Tree Spirit Challenge Server
Thanks for the feedback! I went on vacation this past week, and then had the good fortune to get sick with the ever-present flu. Seriously, been sick like four times this winter... anyway, had many great ideas compiled while on my trip, so now it's just a matter of buckling down and getting something produced. I'm in no serious rush to get going on the mod due to Forge 1.7 being a little delayed. I'm aiming for 1.7 for this mod, though that may be short-sighted. At least this gives me a chance to learn the syntax and core libraries of Java. Have two little kiddo's to keep track of, so the process may be a bit longer than I would like.
I don't want to just put out a list of the million changes to the game that I want to make. I have seen that done with no resulting mod. Trying to keep my energy and interest invested into this, and if a little vagueness keeps me inspired then so be it
The primary idea that I have bouncing around is probably one of the biggest hurdles that needs to be surmounted: I want the player to be able to choose any kind of tree as their spirit tree, yet still allow the mod to distinguish between the chosen tree / it's daughters and other not genetically related trees. Spirit wood vs dead wood. I figure that I could let the player do the usual punching tree and leaves, collect logs and saplings, then designate the heart of the tree (maybe through a one-time use item? right-click dependent on nbt data flag spirit-tree-active=false?), which would then activate the mods enforcement of being close to the tree and its roots without consequences. The consequences and level of enforcement will definitely be configurable. To distinguish spirit vs non-spirit wood and saplings I would need to change the id's or damage values to make them functionally incompatible and easily distinguished by the mod, but still allow the same look and feel of whatever natural tree the player choose. I don't wan to force some particular aesthetic choice on the player, as Lilariel pointed out as a negative previously.
Sorry for the long posts...
I suggest being very careful when exploring caves and such (mind you it'll take a while to get to that point). When first starting out, if you can, just stick to making a strip mine. If you're going to cave I suggest watching some Mindcrack UHC vids to get ideas of how to minimize the encounters you'll have while caving since you'll be limited to moving along your roots. Also, if a cave ends up having too many monsters, and you can get far enough away for them to despawn, I'd do so.
For beginning the best thing you can probably do is make a 3x3x4 dirt thing
The extra log (or two once you're further along) will help you jump up and peak around and is essentially used for scouting the area. To see whether or not it's safe further away from you once you've cleared the immediate area around your dirt fort. You've gotta be really careful with where your tree is because if you do this a creeper can still potentially see you and blow up. So make sure to check all sides of your dirt hut before going out.
In general, leave zombies alone, do not attack. Let them burn up in the light of the sun, then use their flesh for food ONLY when you're about to starve or you're really low on health and have enough flesh to get to full. Otherwise wait till you have a farm to eat regularly.
If you can, when in your hole jump and look around and if you see a skeleton try lure them over to you by peaking out, letting them path your way and then holing yourself in for the night, also letting them burn up in the light of day for their bones and arrows.
After a while you'll have a two high trunk and in general will be fine from all but spiders. That's why you'll keep your dirt hut until you have a roof over your head.
In general, basic stuff, but there are little tricks to it. You may have to make your own bag of tricks, or learn stuff as you go. For me personally hardcore is WAY too hard, but I wish you luck in trying it out.
Tree Spirit Challenge Server
I would say that vines are allowed to be used instead of ladders as long as you only climb on them when each section is connected to your tree. Though, if you're gonna use them to stop yourself from taking fall damage I'd have to say that the spot where you're going to land must be connected to your tree, though the vine not necessarily.
In general vines are basically decoration and tools in my opinion. I have several spots set up around my current tree where there are vines growing, not always from my tree, but where if I were to jump off my tree, I'd hit the vines and land on my roots. e.g.: Jump off a branch, jungle tree growing below it, it has vines, land in the vines, land on my root that goes right by the jungle tree that said vines are growing on. You could also argue that you could jump off your tree and into a pool of water that is held by your roots, but that takes a bit more time and effort to get out of the pool than to just walk out of the vine.
Tree Spirit Challenge Server
I was going to (try) texture the wools acordingly:
White: Old Growth bark (i'll be basing all off of oak logs, I'll try and make them semi-compatable with the others, or maybe the Heart Wood)
Light Grey: lighter Old Growht
Grey: Matured Bark (maybe mossy?)
Black: New Bark
Red: Heart Wood
Pink: Heart Wood (darker or lighter?)
Green: Sap Veins (ya know, because tree's have "veins" in them. this would be good for making quick transportation out)
Yellow: Core Wood (light ring)
Orange: Core Wood (dark ring)
Blue: lighter Sap Vein (maybe a water vein)
Light Blue: Root 1
Cyan: Root 2
Purple: Root 3
Lime: Moss
Magenta: (maybe I'll make this the heart? or Old growth bark)
Finally Brown: Rooty Dirt (maybe the dirt texture with bits of wood texture on it, used in deep root systems)
I was also thinking about re-texturing Obsidian or maybe Stonebricks (all types) to be a "fire resistant wood"
Obsidian: Petrified Stone
Stone Bricks: Fire Resistant Bark
Cracked Bricks: Chared Bark
Circle Bricks: Knot (ya know, because most all tree's have knots in them)
So, let me know what you think, i'm going to do it, and (if I can figure out how) if you think this would work I'll post a copy of the wools for everyone, and if not, then if enough people ask, I'll post it (if that becomes true, it'll be for the "easy" version of the mod, or for those who want a little more detail/exitement for their world)
My root system:
I made it to the swamps:
Which is where I found these guys:
The base floor of my tree. The heart log is in the middle. I have sugar cane, wheat and potatoes:
Under the base of my tree is my mushroom farm. It's slightly off centered so even if a creeper says hi it won't reach my heart log:
My main root. I plan on making it much bigger. I goes to level 12. If I found any ore I branched off and had my root actually touch the ores to mine them:
My tree has 4 floors (counting the top, and not underneath). My bed is on the second floor and there is nothing else on the other two floors. I didn't find sheep so it took a while to get a bed because I used the string from spiders for a fishing pole early in the challenge and I have met fewer spiders than anything else:
And lastly, the outside of my tree. I am currently working on making the canopy go higher in the center since right now it is kinda just a big frisbee type shape:
My entrance is a 1 block jump that has a gate behind the block so from the outside it looks like a 1 block hole but you can still get in and out. I don't remember who posted it, but I am using the technique where you cut down the tree and leave the bottom block to spread but I break the dirt block below it and replace it with a log so my roots are "in the ground."
Any suggestions to make it look better, easier to get around, etc...
Will you be able to tell by looking at the sheep which tree decoration it will be, or will the sheep look like a normal colored sheep until you shear it and see the drops? Do you have the experience yourself, or do you know someone, or need help finding someone to make the textures for these decorative blocks both repeatable and able to stick beside other blocks without looking weird? I have minimal pixeling experience but could probably either help with this or find someone who is capable to help with this endeavor. Would you be interested in making the 'ring' textures link together? What about someone who doesn't want to use the traditional oak tree?
I think you should leave obsidian the way it is in vanilla, but with the stone bricks and stuff I think it's reasonable to re-texture them to be 'fire-resistant' wood.
@jrmysell To make it easier to get around you could probably place some of your surface roots further apart. I find that I can run jump to roots that are 3 blocks apart relatively easily. After a certain point you should not need to have all your roots that close together anyways. If you find that you like to get to other roots more quickly from certain locations you can make the roots connect into each other too. It's not required that they just go out and not interact with each other at all.
Another thing, for me, I used to make my roots the way you've been doing them: always having one right next to the other when going in a diagonal direction. I've since changed the way I do this (see spoiler below). Having had experience with pixeling has lead me to see how you can have a 'line' without having each pixel directly connected to the other. I can post a set of pictures about my personal rules regarding root placement later if you'd like.
I have found that placing my roots on lvl 11 and mining that way has lead to more diamonds than on lvl 12.
To make it look better you could probably start putting out branches in your canopy that gradually go out further than the ones below. After time this will mean you'll need to expand your trunk and or get rid of or edit the lower branches, but that's part of building a tree. If you want it to look a bit more natural while you're building your trunk wider, if you find you've made a mistake take a step back and look at it. If you think it doesn't look horrible leave it there and build around it, or add to it. It can help give your tree more character.
There are also some pretty great trees made in minecraft using some editing tools and if you find that you want to try a different look you can always use those images as references or guides. In the end it's all about fun. You may want to try telling a story with your tree. Is it sad? If so perhaps it would lean over sideways a lot and have lots of vines, like a weeping willow. Is it a strong tree? Perhaps it would have a thick trunk and large roots and branches coming off of it. There are many ways you can go. Your tree appears to be very systematically taking over it's area, and sticking to a very geometric pattern. Perhaps try making your tree branches obey certain rules as you build them.
*goes to pull up pictures of part of her current tree*
These are in sequential order. I personally like to make many trees from my one tree. I've currently only been working on one, but plan on making others. This is on the TSC server that my friend Mailleweaver runs. If you're interested please check out our forum: http://treecrafters.forumotion.com/
Tree Spirit Challenge Server
(sorry, messed up the quote thingy)
@Kathyrria
I have kinda... poor texturing skills. As well, I have already replaced the textures and I'm happy with a few, and sad at the rest. The "ring" textures wouldn't really be a connected texture, I think that if I were to actualy turn it into a texturepack would take me a while, but I would actually be willing to put in some time to learn how and maybe even learn how to use the MCP Connected Texture thing, it would make the texture look better (with the "veins" having an animated or a connected texture/random texture to give it a bit of 'spice'). Right now I have it set up so yellow and orange wool are "ring" pieces, with orange being the dark ring and yellow being the light one. I have them set up around my "heart" to look like the rings of a tree. (but because of the lack of CT, their a solid block of one color). I've also retextured the Red Wool to be a kind of "heart wood", having a bright red texture, "replacing" my heart, and I am currently working on thinking of idea's on how I"m going to grow up, and keep it "realistic". I've also desided while doing my textures, to darken cactus a bit and turn them into "thorns" so now if you have some sand and a few cacti, you can grow "thorns" around your trunk. As for not wanting to use the original oak wood, I think my textures are vague enough, the only problem is that the petrified wood, new bark (I think thats it, I don't have the textures on hand atm), and possibly the vein textures might not be compatable, but I think people could make them work. The ring textures are actualy altered birch and oak wood planks, so they should work (if your using 1.6.4 and below, because the 4 types are sorta similar, you can use the
pink and red wool (faided heart, bright heart) for the rings in the jungle tree, and use the other two as the "heart").
And, now that all that random goodness is gone, maybe you could help me find someone to help make textures as mine are....... well.... anyway, I can work on making some items look a bit more "woody". I was thinking that maybe I could turn one of (or all) the plank textures into "shaved logs" and you could use those as interior blocks and be able to walk on them, seeing as their part of your tree, but then I thought "no... that wouldn't really work because when it comes to it, how do you tell between other tree planks and YOUR tree's planks..." and I thought "well if I knew how to us the MCP meta data thingy or whatever, I could set oak, birch, spruce, and jungle "shaved logs" do meta's 8,9,10,11. but that would be hard to get without use /give..." so, if you can think of a good substatute I'd love to hear it. Perhaps using that one mod that adds a billion different blocks that can be re-textured, or even using the Chisle mod and re-texturing a few of the blocks (the wools would work best for that as you use 8 wool 1 string and get 8 of the Chisle wool back). While I'm on the subject of textures, I was thinking maybe of making the wood tools look more barky, changing sheep to look like little wood sprites, cows might look like beatles which then drop beetle shells that you can craft into armor and things. I'd really like to also learn how to actualy change the names of the blocks so I don't have to guess "oh, crud, what did I call white wool again? oh yea, Heart Logs", so maybe you can help there as well?
Alright, thats it for todays Text Wall, comb thru that and find interesting tidbits and let me know what ya think!
Players start with an item to bond to a tree. This item might be somehow craft-able to allow players to join the fun in an existing world, but its use wipes your inventory.
Moving out of contact with your tree's logs/leaves works like being underwater (short grace period, then you take damage until you die) - depending on difficulty, the amount of 'bubbles' could be cut per step away from Peaceful.
The left-click option is disabled when not within 1 block of your tree's logs/leaves.
Logs/leaves are tree-specific, in case you didn't guess. Build whatever you want, but only your tree's type of logs/leaves will count for contact.
As always, it's better to try to play in-character to what you're doing, and having a mod that would distinguish your heartwood would be best.
You dying kills your tree. Not sure I really like this one, but... meh.
Play with fire at your own risk, for extra street-cred with the other tree-spirits. :-p
Building roots through portals should be possible.
So what I'm noticing here is that your heart-log should essentially send out something like a redstone current which travels indefinitely through its tree-type's logs and leaves and is used to test if you're in touch with your tree. If you leave your tree, you can't do much of anything to the world around you, and you soon begin to die. Since this is a challenge, there are currently no perks to being a tree-spirit.
As an added curiosity, I've been contemplating how to make this mesh with regular Survival so that you could have dryads and regular players coexist. I'm thinking that the dryads should get essentially beacon benefits from their tree, dependent upon how much tree they have, and the ability to share their beacon-perks with others whilst in contact with their tree (so they can bless others for the good of their tree). Making a dryad essentially a thinking beacon would be a great reason for non-dryads to want to keep them around, while limiting them to their trees would make the non-dryads feel that they've got something else to counter the perks of being a tree-spirit.
As a small change that I think would greatly enhance the playstyle, I would also like to see saplings plant-able on their own type of log with placement like torches, so that you can grow branches without adding dirt up a tree (the tree would still grow like normal from that point, just not requiring dirt below it).
Has anybody else given the idea of how this challenge would mesh with normal Survival players any thought?
You can. Depending on where your tree is, your own logs may be your only source of wood. It's mostly just the fact that it's your own logs and you wanna use to grow your tree that keeps most from using their tree's wood to make 'dead' items.
Tree Spirit Challenge Server
Wood quickly became a non-issue for me when I've tried this challenge - both with acacia in the newest snapshots and with oak on the PS3 version.
I started with cutting my tree down to the stump and gathering saplings, then immediately planted one sapling diagonally adjacent to the stump. Usually the first tree isn't enough logs to get far, so I save saplings and instead focus on a quick shelter while my second tree grows. Shelter starts as digging one block down next to the sapling, then continuing a spiral staircase down around the stump, extending a taproot down as needed - which is only one block if you essentially build a 3x3x2 hollow immediately under your stump.
You can usually harvest at least the next tree before sundown. I then replant and root out diagonally the opposite direction 5 blocks to plant a second sapling. That leaves enough wood to make a crafting table, 8 sticks, and 4 planks - plus one more down from the taproot. During the first night, you can make a pick and use it to continue the downward spiral - taking just enough time from the taproot to gather blocks that fell further down before returning to your tree. By daybreak, you should be able to manage your first stone tool(s) and a furnace. After this, one wood gets burned with two sticks for fuel to make charcoal, you make up some torches, and then move on to extending the tree-farm and the taproot-mine as you see fit. I like to have around 6-10 trees planted specifically to harvest (with a torch near each so they grow at night) and then start building up my tree-proper.
In my PC world, I've chosen an isolated area and have yet to see a single sheep - much to my disappointment. The desert on half the horizon certainly doesn't help. Still, by focusing on digging down my taproot early, I was able to find iron and make a bucket - vital to getting wheat growing at a reasonable rate for my own health. After my roots spread far enough, I started simply planting around my stump, preferring a mostly-naturaly appearance for my actual tree - I find that my 'built' trees just don't have an organic-enough feel to me, so I try to simply make do with how many sapling grow next to and on top of each other with very little modification to the external appearance.
After my tree got big enough around, the spiral staircase down around the taproot was extended up around the stump and central trunk as well - then I planted trees on dirt atop the tree, replacing the dirt with logs when the sapling grew. The problem I've had with this tree, though, is that it gets progressively wider as it goes up, rather than branching. Doesn't look quite right (despite being pretty cool). I highly recommend acacia for a vanilla world-tree - its branching growth-patterns and ability to grow adjacent to itself work well in my opinion.
In the PS3 version, I'm playing a tree which has 'adopted' a village - I'm building a castle-wall around the village out of my oaks, and the heartwood is at the base of the first corner tower. The root-system grows through the roads, and floors/walls/roofs are seeing blocks replaced by more oak as the village is made accessible to me by the spreading wood. When I'm done, the whole village will be invisible behind the tree from the outside, and I'll be able to casually walk among the humans of my village. It's been fun to work my patient takeover of the area.
Similar to the skyblock challenge, this setup encourages you to really think about efficient use of your resources, but I've found that part of that is to be practical about when you really should use your own tree's wood to make other things - which I think is really quite early. Crafting table, wood pick, stone pick, torches - these are all early acquisitions for me. Once the tree starts taking off, then you'll clear-cut other trees and be able to be picky about using other-tree-logs as the basis for your sticks and planks.