@Doctor G33k
I haven't ventured to even think about the Nether yet in terms of Minecraft war, but this is a good suggestion. However, Just as joe51498 has pointed out... in the current state that the nether is in, this isn't yet a viable strategy XD. Once the Nether becomes a little more predictable and less glitchy [probably will be by the time SMP damage comes out anyway] this may be viable technique, though it would take a very large amount of time and, like you said, someone with considerable knowledge to be able to pull it off accurately on an often enough basis. It would also, as Joe also pointed out, drain valuable Obsidian vaults.
@BOOMcow
I suppose I could write up a piece on the different jobs, it'll be fun.
How buildings are constructed is also important... I should probably consider that as well, thanks for all your suggestions!
I've got a tactic to add to your OP, involving Naval Warfare.
So you've got a nice big ocean surrounding your castle. Wonderful! But what if enemies launched a large naval assault, and were structuring cannons not too far away? Oh crap! Lets get some boats out there and stop them! Now you could just plop down some boats after jumping in the water, or you could have and underwater harbor! Using the underwater harbor (building it deep enough so enemies couldn't swim down into it) you could launch a large fleet within a split second, going full speed, and catching the enemy COMPLETELY unaware. Using this tactic, you could quickly and efficiently stop enemy naval threats.
@Kromeh
I've just seen one of those in a thread by bwolfert Etho [sorry, I credited the wrong person, I was thinking of a different thread by wolfert...], they're really impressive. I'll probably add it to the thread at the same time as Joe gives me his Floating harbor. It's the best of both worlds :biggrin.gif:
@Kromeh
I've just seen one of those in a thread by bwolfert, they're really impressive. I'll probably add it to the thread at the same time as Joe gives me his Floating harbor. It's the best of both worlds :biggrin.gif:
I've done some work with underwater harbors there not useful for deploying anything larger than a fireteam and using them as the main way to deploy troops is just stupid.
EDIT: Its a PAIN to deploy troops this way first of all they would need to go down into a tunnel grab a boat ride the elevator up then start shooting. Not to mention if you only have one water elevator your sending your guys out one by one into a killing field now a Multi-channel is both easy to sabtoge AND hard to build. Oh also when you send your guys up the water elevator there HIGHLY visible and letting everyone know where your troops are coming from is NEVER a good idea Underground docking stations work very well for small scout posts and i've done some stuff with it but trying to employ it as a full fledged defense method is inpossible.
He definitely didn't say that he thought they should be used as a main way to deploy troops. And I agree with you that it's not a viable way to do so. But being able to dispense a 3-8 person boat squad all equipped with bows and arrows at just the push of a button? You can't say that a tactic like that isn't viable...
Why would it be a pain? Just grab the boat and go. Your job IS to come out shooting.
The problem is security. If people swim down the boat release elevator they could try and break into the base this way... it would either be best to separate such a struture from the main base, or have intense security inside...
Also, I think you're viewing it differently than I am... it would be a 1 time blitzkrieg type of thing to catch them off guard, not a re-used tactic because as you said... having them see troops repeatdely exiting from an area is a bad idea...
Also TNT cannons can be used as war machines to bombard an enemy city.
Lol, don't we have a whole section on this?
@Joe
Hm... I won't settle for this unless we actually give it a try one day in training, once SMP damage is out. I guess we'll just have to see if it really falls apart at the seams at that time. I'll give you 10 if it doesn't work XD
Also, could you *-snip-* some of your quotes? XD Or use @'s.
About ranks: If you do use ranks it is advisable to define position using armour. As in leaders such as lieutenants and generals have diamond while everyone else has iron.
There are also four types of soldier:The foot soldier, the archer, the engineer, and of course, the runecrafter. Runecrafting will be very important. With enchanted weapons and armour, pyrokenesis, and other useful stuff I could see this being an important aspect of war.
(Skins would be good to deversify ranks and classes of soldiers.)
I was thinking that maybe a nice thing to add would be base types (such as a hidden base) and other such things.
In terms of ranks, I'm organizing my troops in a more standardized rank and file order, with higher ranks leading them into the fight.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warriors of Chaos!!!
Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
About ranks: If you do use ranks it is advisable to define position using armour. As in leaders such as lieutenants and generals have diamond while everyone else has iron.
There are also four types of soldier: The most common, the foot soldier, the archer, the engineer, and of course, the runecrafter. Runecrafting will be very important. With enchanted weapons and armour, pyrokenesis, and other useful stuff I could see this being an important aspect of war.
Skins would be good to deversify ranks and classes of soldiers.
Defining Rank with armour is a bad idea:
1. It points out the most important people in your army as targets with different armour.
2. Why would you intentionally use weaker armor...
Defining Rank with skin is a bad idea:
1. It points out the most important people in your army as targets with different armour.
Types of soldiers:
1. Notch is implementing runecrafting?... Pyrokinesis???
2. I think you're leaving out a LOT of jobs, or consolidating them too much.
Amazing thread! I was wondering if anyone had contemplated warfare when it comes around. I myself have read The Art of War and I think this is a fantastic adaptation of it. I may have a few ideas to present in a bit.
Amazing thread! I was wondering if anyone had contemplated warfare when it comes around. I myself have read The Art of War and I think this is a fantastic adaptation of it. I may have a few ideas to present in a bit.
Thanks for the compliments :smile.gif:
I'm interested in seeing what you have to contribute
Interesting thread. I agree with most of the things that were said, but having a wooden bridge connecting your fort to the rest of the map is sort of a double edged sword. Though you can burn the bridge and postpone the ememy from entering your base, you would be cut of from the rest of the world, unable to getany recsources ouside of your walls. Your enemy may be smart enough to even burn the bridge on purpose to leave you isolated.
In direct conflicts, you will want your front soldiers to have the strongest armor possible, while your archers and support are on a lower armor priority. This can be explempified by having the front soldiers using diamond/iron, while your archers and support use only iron/leather. Front line soldiers are the key to keeping the enemy from advancing, and even dream of touching your archers.
In in-direct conflicts, you will want whoever will be most active on the field to have the best armor. For example, if the area is very mountanious and you are preforming an ambush, you'll want most soldiers equiped with bows, and have those that aren't some decent armor when they go in to choke. Another scenario is a direct conflict, but with soldiers preforming tactical movements, such as flanking or tunneling. You'll want to equip your flankers with as good of, if not better, armor than your main front, so that the enemy army has absolutely no chance of escape.
In fights that have both a naval and land based fronts, you would most likely want your land based troops to have stronger armor, considering the mobility of boats.
Having one single troop fitted with full diamond while the rest of your army is in only leather, is not advisable however. A balanced group of units is much more effective as a fighting force than a single unit with some minor support. Spread out your resources so that if one takes a fall, not all is lost.
An interesting read, and a fine written one at that. However, I feel that some key points are missing in it, and to namely:
In many games with extensive building, Tower Defence in combination with ground troops is always considered a viable option for defence. The main difference between a tower and any common fortification or cannon is that Towers are normally specialized, like units, in order to deal with certain types of opposing units to soften up foes, making it easier for troops to fend them off. A few examples would be:
Guard Tower
The most basic of all tower designs, guard towers are basically raised fortifications outfitted to give archers maximum benefit while protecting them as much as possible. These towers are effective at picking off melee and air threats from a far range, and are quite popular due to their relative ease of construction compared to other designs and overall reliability. Typically, they fare quite well combined with any other type of unit, though shot-happy archers may end up shooting allies if attempting to execute moves such as arrow volleys. It is important to make sure that a tower is designed so that it aids the archer in doing his/her job rather then simply obscuring their sight and making them a target for artillery, and like all towers, a guard tower should have at least one storage that is close to access, stocked with surplus arrows+swords in cases of an emergency.
TNT tower
Working a a basic principle of
This allows towers to rain deadly explosives on melee ground, such as Pyromaniacs (Lava bucket/Flint + Tinder users), Swordsmen, and Pillagers/Axemen with impunity without damaging themselves or surrounding grounds. Due to their close range, these structures work poorly in conjunction with your own ground forces, and are best complemented with archers in order to be used to their full potential. Like all towers, they are vulnerable to artillery via TNT cannon, and can also be sabotaged relativity easily if their blast absorb pools are dried up. Despite these drawbacks, TNT towers should always be considered when facing a foe who likes to use large amounts of melee in order to function, as long as one takes heed to remember their strengths and faults!
Casting Tower
A new type of tower to arrive, casting towers are the result of modifying Guard towers in order to utilize "Fishing Rods" in order to attack foes rather then conventional arrows or TNT. While one might laugh at such a thought at first, Casting Towers could prove lethal to unprepared clusters of units, and are devastating against melee in ways that not even Guard Towers can match. The biggest thing that sets a Casting Tower apart from the other two varieties is that it costs virtually no resources in order to attack, due to the current reloading mechanics of rods. This makes casting towers substantially cheaper then other towers and TNT cannons, while at the same time maintaining the ability to provide safety for their users and dangerous power against offense. The key to making a Casting tower successful is either building it on a rained area, preferably on a hill, or building it so that it reaches the desired height, allowing it to toss foes into the air at maximum, dealing heavy damage through gravity, while maintaining a desired firing range. In basic, the height of a tower increases its potential damage, but too-tall towers start to lose valuable firing range. Balance is key.
I personally think that warfare will evolve in the direction of set piece battles between skirmishers. Generally I see the average warrior donned in whatever armor they can gather themselves; as the style of Medieval mercenary armies. Weapons however will be more or less distributed by the leaders, and being the most common material, Iron will most likely be the standard.
It's the only reasonable compromise between availability and strength. Diamond is so rare that unless the Army was also a full-time mining firm on the side, it wouldn't be plausible for them to wear between 15-20 diamonds worth of armor and weapons a piece. At the same time, leather and stone are so unreasonably weak compared to Iron that they aren't usable. That just about leaves Iron as the only good choice for mass-armament.
On the topic of tactics however, I think a very formalized line battle will become commonplace. Any strategic warfare will be done on defensive means. Minecraft has the unique authority of being the only game with long enough times for transit to be sufficient in length for traps, ambushes and the like to be set up in the advance of an oncoming army; but the long spawn walking distance will prevent long reinforcement filled battles.
That being said, Trench warfare also appears to be an option, with two armies of archers digging in either in a castle or around it and awaiting the others supply lines run out. This sort of makes self-sufficient communities a requirement, and may result in both sides building massively defensive cities and pursuing little offense. I think either flying vehicles or a massive increase in server population would ensure attacking is an option.
Well, that's about all the idea I had for now.
Oh, here's a picture though.
Such as: City militas, Royal army (ofiicial army), and more, including the different ways to use them.
Also the different buildings that buildings they need. Such as: Barracks, forts, training buildings, and outposts.
I haven't ventured to even think about the Nether yet in terms of Minecraft war, but this is a good suggestion. However, Just as joe51498 has pointed out... in the current state that the nether is in, this isn't yet a viable strategy XD. Once the Nether becomes a little more predictable and less glitchy [probably will be by the time SMP damage comes out anyway] this may be viable technique, though it would take a very large amount of time and, like you said, someone with considerable knowledge to be able to pull it off accurately on an often enough basis. It would also, as Joe also pointed out, drain valuable Obsidian vaults.
@BOOMcow
I suppose I could write up a piece on the different jobs, it'll be fun.
How buildings are constructed is also important... I should probably consider that as well, thanks for all your suggestions!
So you've got a nice big ocean surrounding your castle. Wonderful! But what if enemies launched a large naval assault, and were structuring cannons not too far away? Oh crap! Lets get some boats out there and stop them! Now you could just plop down some boats after jumping in the water, or you could have and underwater harbor! Using the underwater harbor (building it deep enough so enemies couldn't swim down into it) you could launch a large fleet within a split second, going full speed, and catching the enemy COMPLETELY unaware. Using this tactic, you could quickly and efficiently stop enemy naval threats.
Clicky clicky for free minecraft
[simg]http://i.min.us/ilcpc.png[/simg]
I've just seen one of those in a thread by
bwolfertEtho [sorry, I credited the wrong person, I was thinking of a different thread by wolfert...], they're really impressive. I'll probably add it to the thread at the same time as Joe gives me his Floating harbor. It's the best of both worlds :biggrin.gif:He definitely didn't say that he thought they should be used as a main way to deploy troops. And I agree with you that it's not a viable way to do so. But being able to dispense a 3-8 person boat squad all equipped with bows and arrows at just the push of a button? You can't say that a tactic like that isn't viable...
Why would it be a pain? Just grab the boat and go. Your job IS to come out shooting.
The problem is security. If people swim down the boat release elevator they could try and break into the base this way... it would either be best to separate such a struture from the main base, or have intense security inside...
Edit: Something like this http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=84506 isn't easily see-able from above water...
Also, I think you're viewing it differently than I am... it would be a 1 time blitzkrieg type of thing to catch them off guard, not a re-used tactic because as you said... having them see troops repeatdely exiting from an area is a bad idea...
Lol, don't we have a whole section on this?
@Joe
Hm... I won't settle for this unless we actually give it a try one day in training, once SMP damage is out. I guess we'll just have to see if it really falls apart at the seams at that time. I'll give you 10 if it doesn't work XD
Also, could you *-snip-* some of your quotes? XD Or use @'s.
There are also four types of soldier:The foot soldier, the archer, the engineer, and of course, the runecrafter. Runecrafting will be very important. With enchanted weapons and armour, pyrokenesis, and other useful stuff I could see this being an important aspect of war.
(Skins would be good to deversify ranks and classes of soldiers.)
In terms of ranks, I'm organizing my troops in a more standardized rank and file order, with higher ranks leading them into the fight.
Warriors of Chaos!!!
Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
Defining Rank with armour is a bad idea:
1. It points out the most important people in your army as targets with different armour.
2. Why would you intentionally use weaker armor...
Defining Rank with skin is a bad idea:
1. It points out the most important people in your army as targets with different armour.
Types of soldiers:
1. Notch is implementing runecrafting?... Pyrokinesis???
2. I think you're leaving out a LOT of jobs, or consolidating them too much.
Thanks for the compliments :smile.gif:
I'm interested in seeing what you have to contribute
What happens when dragons get implemented? They'll basically dominate the whole battlefield!
I demonstrated it in the second part of this video:
In direct conflicts, you will want your front soldiers to have the strongest armor possible, while your archers and support are on a lower armor priority. This can be explempified by having the front soldiers using diamond/iron, while your archers and support use only iron/leather. Front line soldiers are the key to keeping the enemy from advancing, and even dream of touching your archers.
In in-direct conflicts, you will want whoever will be most active on the field to have the best armor. For example, if the area is very mountanious and you are preforming an ambush, you'll want most soldiers equiped with bows, and have those that aren't some decent armor when they go in to choke. Another scenario is a direct conflict, but with soldiers preforming tactical movements, such as flanking or tunneling. You'll want to equip your flankers with as good of, if not better, armor than your main front, so that the enemy army has absolutely no chance of escape.
In fights that have both a naval and land based fronts, you would most likely want your land based troops to have stronger armor, considering the mobility of boats.
Having one single troop fitted with full diamond while the rest of your army is in only leather, is not advisable however. A balanced group of units is much more effective as a fighting force than a single unit with some minor support. Spread out your resources so that if one takes a fall, not all is lost.
Clicky clicky for free minecraft
[simg]http://i.min.us/ilcpc.png[/simg]
Hmm, sounds good.
In many games with extensive building, Tower Defence in combination with ground troops is always considered a viable option for defence. The main difference between a tower and any common fortification or cannon is that Towers are normally specialized, like units, in order to deal with certain types of opposing units to soften up foes, making it easier for troops to fend them off. A few examples would be:
Guard Tower
The most basic of all tower designs, guard towers are basically raised fortifications outfitted to give archers maximum benefit while protecting them as much as possible. These towers are effective at picking off melee and air threats from a far range, and are quite popular due to their relative ease of construction compared to other designs and overall reliability. Typically, they fare quite well combined with any other type of unit, though shot-happy archers may end up shooting allies if attempting to execute moves such as arrow volleys. It is important to make sure that a tower is designed so that it aids the archer in doing his/her job rather then simply obscuring their sight and making them a target for artillery, and like all towers, a guard tower should have at least one storage that is close to access, stocked with surplus arrows+swords in cases of an emergency.
TNT tower
Working a a basic principle of
This allows towers to rain deadly explosives on melee ground, such as Pyromaniacs (Lava bucket/Flint + Tinder users), Swordsmen, and Pillagers/Axemen with impunity without damaging themselves or surrounding grounds. Due to their close range, these structures work poorly in conjunction with your own ground forces, and are best complemented with archers in order to be used to their full potential. Like all towers, they are vulnerable to artillery via TNT cannon, and can also be sabotaged relativity easily if their blast absorb pools are dried up. Despite these drawbacks, TNT towers should always be considered when facing a foe who likes to use large amounts of melee in order to function, as long as one takes heed to remember their strengths and faults!
Casting Tower
A new type of tower to arrive, casting towers are the result of modifying Guard towers in order to utilize "Fishing Rods" in order to attack foes rather then conventional arrows or TNT. While one might laugh at such a thought at first, Casting Towers could prove lethal to unprepared clusters of units, and are devastating against melee in ways that not even Guard Towers can match. The biggest thing that sets a Casting Tower apart from the other two varieties is that it costs virtually no resources in order to attack, due to the current reloading mechanics of rods. This makes casting towers substantially cheaper then other towers and TNT cannons, while at the same time maintaining the ability to provide safety for their users and dangerous power against offense. The key to making a Casting tower successful is either building it on a rained area, preferably on a hill, or building it so that it reaches the desired height, allowing it to toss foes into the air at maximum, dealing heavy damage through gravity, while maintaining a desired firing range. In basic, the height of a tower increases its potential damage, but too-tall towers start to lose valuable firing range. Balance is key.
Just a slight obscure tactic.
The best post ever.
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It's the only reasonable compromise between availability and strength. Diamond is so rare that unless the Army was also a full-time mining firm on the side, it wouldn't be plausible for them to wear between 15-20 diamonds worth of armor and weapons a piece. At the same time, leather and stone are so unreasonably weak compared to Iron that they aren't usable. That just about leaves Iron as the only good choice for mass-armament.
On the topic of tactics however, I think a very formalized line battle will become commonplace. Any strategic warfare will be done on defensive means. Minecraft has the unique authority of being the only game with long enough times for transit to be sufficient in length for traps, ambushes and the like to be set up in the advance of an oncoming army; but the long spawn walking distance will prevent long reinforcement filled battles.
That being said, Trench warfare also appears to be an option, with two armies of archers digging in either in a castle or around it and awaiting the others supply lines run out. This sort of makes self-sufficient communities a requirement, and may result in both sides building massively defensive cities and pursuing little offense. I think either flying vehicles or a massive increase in server population would ensure attacking is an option.
Well, that's about all the idea I had for now.
Oh, here's a picture though.