You have completely lost the entire concept of Minecraft, and I pity your closed-mindedness. Throughout your post, your main topic was progression, challenges, advancing difficulty, developing gameplay along a timeline. I don't know if you just don't understand the game, or simply choose to ignore the inspired genius of it, but Minecraft is NOT A STORYLINE, MISSION-BASED, OR ROLE PLAYING GAME. It is a SANDBOX. If you don't understand the difference.... You shouldn't be on the forum. You should be playing the game constantly until you figure out how it works. Nuff said.
I agree with this entirely.
Silents: Mojang should absolutely fix flaws, such as repetitive terrain, glitchy movement, lighting, mobs cheating through fences, etc. The lack of endless levels of progress in the game, complexity in combat, etc. are not flaws. Well okay, there is always room for improvement, but it's not essential.
Minecraft has hundreds of hours of game play even though every thing can be found and acquired in ten. What's this mean? It means the game play doesn't lie in depth but breadth, and there's a lot of it. To push for deep play in the core is to miss the point. It's up to map makers and creative individuals to use Minecraft to make thousands of interesting play experiences, not Mojang to establish just one.
Silents: Mojang should absolutely fix flaws, such as repetitive terrain, glitchy movement, lighting, mobs cheating through fences, etc. The lack of endless levels of progress in the game, complexity in combat, etc. are not flaws. Well okay, there is always room for improvement, but it's not essential.
Minecraft has hundreds of hours of game play even though every thing can be found and acquired in ten. What's this mean? It means the game play doesn't lie in depth but breadth, and there's a lot of it. To push for deep play in the core is to miss the point. It's up to map makers and creative individuals to use Minecraft to make thousands of interesting play experiences, not Mojang to establish just one.
Exactly. Hence the modding, hence the mini games, hence the various adventure servers/maps(MineZ, Herobrines mansion series, Etc., etc.). Minecraft has such a potential for that area, that to alter the vanilla to be more like those would end up limiting both aspects in their excitement and creativity. Us, there are, as you said, flaws. Terrain, movement, and visual control/lighting/clarity are my three top flaws as well. But, these are 1: not anywhere near reasons not to play the game, and 2: very fixable. I personally see very few of the OP's suggestions/complaints as ACTUAL flaws, I just see them as the confusion and dismay of a "traditional" gamer playing a "non-traditional" game.
Insurrection, in the OP you start by saying minecraft is a good game but there are a lot of ways things can be made better. I agree with your original statement on both points. I also agree that many of your ideas for improving the game (much of points 2-6) would be good for the game. I just think you missed the basic point of minecraft.
I more or less pointed out that it has a lot of potential, but that it never really makes use of this potential. Whether or not it's a "good" game is up for debate, but regardless, there's a lot of things it could use improving- which was the overall point of my original post.
I'm sure you are aware that LOTS of people like building and doing whatever they feel like, and enjoy having this freedom. You exaggerate grossly when you say minecraft has almost nothing of interest, simply because it doesn't have many directed challenges. This doesn't mean that adding such challenges wouldn't be good to add; I'm merely reacting to your overly strong negativity.
The thing is, Minecraft has a huge base for content- like, you could just throw in SO much content into Minecraft, and it would receive it VERY well. Blocks, mobs, biomes, items, etc- they're all things you can add more and more to, and it wouldn't detract from the game at all. As long as none of them are "forced" elements, of course (having a bajillion mobs all bombard you at once would be annoying).
By starting with an overly strong negative, you push me to react. Then you pull back, and say something much more reasonable.
Admittedly I've been rather strong in my general tone, but that's more or less a reaction to the endless heaps of praise Minecraft gets. It's alright to be positive, but Minecraft gets TOO much positive praise, and has its flaws grossly overlooked. Even by so-called "critics", who dole out 10/10's for far too many games these days.
Again, overly strong. There is water, lava, moving items, mob forces, fire, TNT, projectiles, pistons. The challenge is making interesting things out of them.
So what would be wrong with adding more stuff? Compared to even static videogames (which require a lot of though and effort into how they're implemented), you can pretty much just throw in content to Minecraft and it'll usually work pretty fine. Granted, when I say "throw in", I don't mean toss it into the code and leave it at that- but there's so many biomes, mods, blocks, and etc that could be added with virtually no effort, but they just... aren't.
I believe this is by design. Notch himself has said he's not interested in making a game as such. He wants to create the tools by which people can create their own fun. And people do, by the millions. They are aiming for breadth, and leaving it up to the community to create depth. The core game is shallow, and does what it needs to enable people to create their own thing.
With mods, sure. Also, again, saying what Notch & co "intended" isn't really relevant.
I'm not against your proposals. I'm against your saying minecraft is bad. If you don't understand what's good in minecraft already, you will simply be pushing to make it go a direction that doesn't belong to the core. I'll say it differently: Minecraft is a platform for people to create their own game. And it's good as that.
I understand pretty well what makes Minecraft "good". I also understand it has a lot- a LOT- of room for expansion. Expansion that Mojang takes literally months to add.
I'm not talking about mods. I'm talking about map making. Minecraft excels as a platform for building the games which take advantage of the features in survival mode.
I'm not arguing that survival can't be improved. I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be pushed in the direction of deep directed play. Mojang should not emphasize directional content, but continue adding open-ended content that can be used to make whatever.
I'm curious what you mean when you say "directed play". Do you mean the kind of content that is added with a specific purpose, to let the player experience it "as intended" with little to no interaction from outside sources? Because I fully advocate dynamic content that interacts with the rest of the world seamlessly. I would never want Minecraft to ever be "streamlined" or Skyrim-itized.
As for mods, there's no end to inventing new stuff, but that doesn't mean minecraft is a bad game because people create mods.
The point is that you really need mods if you want a decent amount of depth when it comes to content. That's... not really acceptable when you have a talented team at hand who could add this content (likely with more refining and cohesion).
I object to the word "lacking". It's impossible to be everything to everyone. Is there something not in survival that if added could make it better? An infinite amount of different things. Is there some basic changes that would make a big enhancement? Perhaps some of those should be done.
You can pretty much easily sum up all of Minecraft's content in one image. I don't mean a specific image, but it's not really hard to represent 90% of Minecraft's content. That's the thing that's bothersome. There just isn't much content at all.
Every game has a limited playability. Minecraft's is measured in years. But if people get tired of the same, well that's no surprise. That mods provide something different is no surprise. Mojang continues to add various things to make the game more interesting and that's exactly what they should do. And they must restrain themselves to avoid changing the balance and feel of the game from what people like to something very different. None of this means minecraft is incomplete.
They can avoid "changing the balance and feel of the game" and still add content. They can add a LOT of content.
Minecraft is a create-your-own game. It will never be a FPS. But it can be whatever else you or somebody makes of it. Do tell what gameplay can't be made or can't be done that should be.
You can't really create that many fleshed out games with Minecraft at all, though. Even with the redstone update and stuff, you can't just make Banjo Kazooie or something out of Minecraft. You can't even really make Super Mario Brothers.
It's not that great, and you really overrate how much Minecraft is for a "create-your-own-game" platform. It lacks far too many elements to make this remotely decent (namely, a proper set of creative mode tools for map makers...).
You want to have all these changes? Go make your own game and do all the work yourself.Have fun with all that time spent.
I intend to make an overhaul mod for Minecraft, as well as my own game, yes.
I don't see why you say "Have fun with all that time spent" as though it's supposed to mean something. I fully understand the amount of time and effort it makes to create a video game.
I think this is the right answer for OP. The changes proposed could be done via mods, but it's really turning Minecraft into something else. Which is the point of minecraft anyway to do that, but the result would be a very niche game compared to minecraft itself. But for the extent of changes suggested here, it's a lot of work any way you slice it.
It wouldn't really be a "niche" game if my intended plans were put forth. It'd just be Minecraft with more to it in every single way.
I've always thought of it being more of an overhaul, and those things typically have some pretty hefty changes.
Suppose the API is needed to do anything that major without it becoming too much of a pain, though.
Yeah. I don't intend to release anything until the API is out. It's mind numbingly painful to have to re-do the code every single update.
Personally, the changes to the skeletons, the rapid shooting and practically 100% accuracy sucks. It sure does make the game harder, no problem there. The problem is it's at a ridiculous level. Before if you were good, even without armor you could take on 2-3 skeletons with an iron/diamond sword. Now it is impossible without some kind of armor, and with enough skeletons even an enchanted diamond armor is nothing.
I think it's a step in the right direction, but they really gave the difficulty a big boost.
Again, it's hard, no problem there. But it's not the right kind of hard. If you lose really it isn't your fault for losing, except for even getting in the fight. I don't like that. The right hard is when you can do it, if you lose you feel like it's your fault, and if you win it's because you were able enough. Right now it's just impossible to get that feel I think.
I think it's a good way to push the bow though. But I don't like that either. I'm a melee user, I only use the bow in PvP, I never use it for mobs, but now I'm forced to, and I don't like that. It gives me less freedom than before.
Again, these are just my thoughts, however I think they're quite true.
I like the difficulty of skeletons themselves now. They're as difficult as they should have been, now. The issue is their frequency. I went over individual difficulty vs overall difficulty before, and I think this change actually made the game a lot harder- and not in a good way.
Remember, despite people thinking I'm advocating turning the game into some kind of Castlevania or Dark Souls-esque game in terms of difficulty, I'm not. I'd like it to remain possible to avoid most difficulty if you really don't want to get your butt kicked. Minecraft should be a peaceful game.
To remedy this, they just need to make skeletons not spawn above ground anymore. Make 'em spawn around layer 50 and below.
You have completely lost the entire concept of Minecraft, and I pity your closed-mindedness.
"Close-mindedness"? That's a pretty bold statement. I fully welcome other trains of thought, suggestions, and ideas. I prefer discussion. It's why I posted it in a forum in the first place, instead of a soapbox simulator like tumblr.
Throughout your post, your main topic was progression, challenges, advancing difficulty, developing gameplay along a timeline. I don't know if you just don't understand the game, or simply choose to ignore the inspired genius of it, but Minecraft is NOT A STORYLINE, MISSION-BASED, OR ROLE PLAYING GAME. It is a SANDBOX. If you don't understand the difference.... You shouldn't be on the forum. You should be playing the game constantly until you figure out how it works. Nuff said.
I... what? Where did I say "Minecraft should be a storyline, mission based, roleplaying game"? Where on earth are you drawing that from?
I have- from the very beginning- simply advocated (rather strongly, admittedly) that Minecraft should have a lot more content. It has a fantastic base for content creation, but not enough of it in any of its given methods.
The only thing I would say I've really advocated for changing/overhauling is the general difficulty and combat- but not to make it "harder" or the like. Just to make it more dynamic, and to be yet another element for content expansion.
the OP seems to feel the need to make minecraft MORE structured, with less breathing room within the "rules", which is what I feel is the opposite of the games goal.
No, I don't. I don't feel that at all. Quit strawmanning.
One of which, is to expand and alter the biomes! The adventure update helped, but more, and more needs to be added, the exploration aspect of minecraft, while having so much potential, tends to be strangled by the lack of things to explore!
Which I strongly advocated in one of my initial points in the original post.
i like it but i saw somewhere you were making a mod for this and was wondering if you could upload it? sounds like a great idea
Not until the API is out- even then, it'll be some time before I push out a release for it. I'm jugging a lot of different projects and have been rather busy as of late, but I do intend to make a mod for Minecraft to at least somewhat rectify a lot of my complaints.
And? A lot of its points are still relevant. Only a few of them aren't too relevant anymore (the slime spawning, which was actually added, for example). Each major point is still very much so relevant to Minecraft today.
Exactly. Hence the modding, hence the mini games, hence the various adventure servers/maps(MineZ, Herobrines mansion series, Etc., etc.). Minecraft has such a potential for that area, that to alter the vanilla to be more like those would end up limiting both aspects in their excitement and creativity.
I don't think every mod should be implemented into vanilla. Only the ones that add content without inhibiting the content of other mods should be put in. It's funny you point out stuff like "MineZ", because that's the exact kind of stuff I wouldn't want in vanilla.
Us, there are, as you said, flaws. Terrain, movement, and visual control/lighting/clarity are my three top flaws as well. But, these are 1: not anywhere near reasons not to play the game, and 2: very fixable.
1: I never said "Nobody should play the game because these are lacking!".
Granted, but I don't know if you intended this, but the I saw your entire post, you kept suggesting progression, other linear content, and combat. I thouroughly and completely agree with the addition of blocks and items. I read very little emphasis in your OP
I've read some of the stuff, I disagree with you completely, these ideas are in fact terrible in my opinion.
Leave it Mojang when it comes to creating Minecraft...
Granted, but I don't know if you intended this, but the I saw your entire post, you kept suggesting progression, other linear content, and combat. I thouroughly and completely agree with the addition of blocks and items. I read very little emphasis in your OP
Where did I suggest linear content? Progression should be there, but only if you want to progress. And I only meant that in the sense that it should be a way to allow for dynamic difficulty- so it's not really even "progression".
Combat should be improved regardless. Not made to be "harder" or needlessly complex (see: fighting games), but just have a bit more to it. It's painfully, painfully boring and lacking right now. Literally all you do is click and sorta aim.
I've read some of the stuff, I disagree with you completely, these ideas are in fact terrible in my opinion.
Leave it Mojang when it comes to creating Minecraft...
Where did I suggest linear content? Progression should be there, but only if you want to progress."
What is this supposed to mean? The player doesn't have the choice to develop without having to "progress" as scripted through the gameplay?? That statement confused me.
What is this supposed to mean? The player doesn't have the choice to develop without having to "progress" as scripted through the gameplay?? That statement confused me.
I don't know where you're getting "scripted" from.
I meant that if you wanted an easier time, you would stay above ground. If you wanted to progress into harder difficulties, you would progress downwards into the earth and into places like the nether. That is ideally how difficulty should work, and is what I discussed in the OP. Right now, difficulty is pretty much the same no matter which biome you're in (because mobs spawn the same in every place), or how far you're down. The only real difference is lava in the deeper areas. That's it.
Other than that, I didn't really suggest progression.
Also, you have yet to explain how I suggested "other linear content".
I would enjoy progressive difficulty. I suspect many players would not, unless it was very gradual and not keeping pace with equipment. They like to get deep ores and nether materials with minor difficulty. There is a reason the End only offers a trophy.
You're totally missing the concept of Minecraft, adding really anything that is on this list to the actual game would effect the gameplay so much that it wouldn't feel as "Minecraft" anymore.
Plus, the way you wrote the thread, mocking on Minecraft is just ignorant.
You've got to understand that Minecraft isn't a roleplaying game, it's a game where you place blocks, create the coolest things and survive.
Minecraft is a very original and strange game, it's the reason I fell in love with it.
Also you mocking on Mojang, saying that they don't update Minecraft enough is the thing I disagree with the most.
Every update is major, sometimes I dislike how much they change to the game, seeing this thread just makes me wanna hit myself again a wall.
I can't believe this thread got this popular, this is honestly just garbage.
I don't know where you're getting "scripted" from.
I meant that if you wanted an easier time, you would stay above ground. If you wanted to progress into harder difficulties, you would progress downwards into the earth and into places like the nether. That is ideally how difficulty should work, and is what I discussed in the OP. Right now, difficulty is pretty much the same no matter which biome you're in (because mobs spawn the same in every place), or how far you're down. The only real difference is lava in the deeper areas. That's it.
Other than that, I didn't really suggest progression.
Also, you have yet to explain how I suggested "other linear content".
Aye, I see. Thank you for the clarification. And I would actually agree with increasing difficulty as the player goes deeper. This could also be worked into the cubic chunks thread. What I was reading into your OP was that you would like to add elements similar to player leveling, as different things were achieved different things were added to make it more difficult. Now your post makes more sense. I still don't totally agree, but I could live with it.
You're totally missing the concept of Minecraft, adding really anything that is on this list to the actual game would effect the gameplay so much that it wouldn't feel as "Minecraft" anymore.
What exactly feels like Minecraft? If his ideas were added when the game was created, would it still feel like Minecraft? It just seems that change is unwelcome because it changes something that feels familiar to you.
I am against most of the changes listed here, in fact I would prefer if everything went back to the way it was. A game that changes all the time is just not enjoyable to me. As soon as I get the system figured out, such as the redstone system, or mob logic, they go and change it all. And that really frustrates me. I do understand that changes are to be expected during a BETA phase. But once beta is complete and the game is release stop making changes! Sure go ahead and work on version two but don't mess with version one. But then your in BETA for version two which should be a completely different game.
I would enjoy progressive difficulty. I suspect many players would not, unless it was very gradual and not keeping pace with equipment. They like to get deep ores and nether materials with minor difficulty. There is a reason the End only offers a trophy.
Yeah, but what's the point of a trophy if it's not only easy to get, but doesn't really do anything? Also, I would like to think that were progressive difficulty added, you could still have access to all the basics fairly easily- iron, etc. If anything, getting iron would be about the same, and the above ground portion of the game would actually be easier (if my ideas were put in). So you could still get a lot of materials pretty easy.
You're totally missing the concept of Minecraft, adding really anything that is on this list to the actual game would effect the gameplay so much that it wouldn't feel as "Minecraft" anymore.
What is "Minecraft"? Does everyone share your sentiments? Even if they do, what does that mean? Why should it be considered over ideas that expand the content of the game?
You've got to understand that Minecraft isn't a roleplaying game, it's a game where you place blocks, create the coolest things and survive.
Minecraft is a very original and strange game, it's the reason I fell in love with it.
It's actually not all that original. It's just got elements from various games cobbled together (Dwarf Fortress, Infiniminer, Dungeon Keeper).
Besides, I haven't been suggesting they make it a roleplaying game. I don't know where this keeps coming from.
Also you mocking on Mojang, saying that they don't update Minecraft enough is the thing I disagree with the most.
They both do and don't. They update too frequently (thus breaking mods constantly), but the actual content of the updates is very small. Compare it to mod teams who don't do this as their job. Mod makers push out content at an amazing rate. A professional team can't even compete with a single modding team. That's ridiculous.
What I was reading into your OP was that you would like to add elements similar to player leveling, as different things were achieved different things were added to make it more difficult.
Nah, I don't really like that idea. Notch said at some point that he doesn't like the idea of things magically popping up after you do X thing- and I'd have to agree with him. The Enderman idea could be considered something like that, but it would just change their behavior and spawn rate- not exactly the same as spawning a new mob. Plus, it was just a random idea- one I admittedly didn't think through very much.
Pretty much everything else works off the basis of mobs being found in different areas.
A game that changes all the time is just not enjoyable to me. As soon as I get the system figured out, such as the redstone system, or mob logic, they go and change it all. And that really frustrates me. I do understand that changes are to be expected during a BETA phase. But once beta is complete and the game is release stop making changes! Sure go ahead and work on version two but don't mess with version one. But then your in BETA for version two which should be a completely different game.
Basically don't mess with a good thing
Minecraft has a bunch of flaws- and to be honest, I'd prefer they fix them in large sweeping updates rather than monthly updates (where major updates are once every 4-5 months), but whatever. It's still a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed. If they kept it as it was in 1.0, it would be mind numbingly bad.
Fml, I was half way through writing out a response and I accidentally refreshed the page. I'm not writing that out again, i'll bullet-point it.
1. Those 'small charms' you speak of are insanely important to many players. Especially when it comes to a lack of tutorial, where it adds to the survival feel. You do explain why it is 'necessary', but it would really kill a fun feeling of 'lone wolf survival'. If Minecraft gets a PC tutorial, then I leave the country...
2. Do not make Minecraft a hardcore/horror game. Obviously you weren't suggesting the horror as much, but a lot of your ideas seem like they are for people who are only here to survive in a 'man vs. beast' sort of way, where as many of us like Minecraft survival for its creativity and 'man vs. nature'
3. Following up my point that people like playing Minecraft to be creative, I have to acknowledge the first thing in your 'FAT' section. Your plan of adding options to creative is useless, since most people who want to feel accomplished for building want to use EVERY feature survival has. If you give creative mode the option to turn off flying, turn off spawning items, turn on health and hunger, etc., then you just have survival!
4. The WORST thing about the post was the bit on the graphics. I can respect that you don't call Minecraft's graphics horrible because it is made of blocks, but the default textures need NO work at all. It may be nostalgia talking, but Minecraft's textures make it unique from the clones that are made. Realistically, there is only so much you can do with 16x16, and they aren't going to up the ante. All we would be doing is going from good to good, and it would be an unnecessary change to the textures we know and love. For those who think differently, texture packs are not hard to install whatsoever.
The problem with 'fixing' Minecraft is that it is a different experience for everyone. You won't be able to please every single person. But the wrong idea is making it a hardcore game at its core. Hardcore players are more suited to download mods if they wish for things to really become more difficult.
Last thing, promise. In response you your post directly above this one, we really are forced to upgrade versions, seeing as it isn't particularly legal to obtain a previous jar, and multiplayer servers won't linger around in beta 1.3.6.
Well I'll stop there. Sorry if that didn't sound intelligent or well-thought out, but after losing my initial post I just half-assed this one.
1. Those 'small charms' you speak of are insanely important to many players. Especially when it comes to a lack of tutorial, where it adds to the survival feel. You do explain why it is 'necessary', but it would really kill a fun feeling of 'lone wolf survival'. If Minecraft gets a PC tutorial, then I leave the country...
Just go already then, if the only thing holding the game back from being better is it's god-awful fan base then you're part of the problem. Charms don't make a game's mechanics good. You contradict yourself by saying the lack of a tutorial adds to the fun feeling of "lone wolf survival", then say ...
2. Do not make Minecraft a hardcore/horror game. Obviously you weren't suggesting the horror as much, but a lot of your ideas seem like they are for people who are only here to survive in a 'man vs. beast' sort of way, where as many of us like Minecraft survival for its creativity and 'man vs. nature'
... you don't want some hardcore experience. Having no tutorial and being required to learn all crafting recipes yourself is a very difficult task, almost unfair. Survival is survival, let it be a fun survival game instead of a shitty survival game and a somewhat-okay building game.
3. Following up my point that people like playing Minecraft to be creative, I have to acknowledge the first thing in your 'FAT' section. Your plan of adding options to creative is useless, since most people who want to feel accomplished for building want to use EVERY feature survival has. If you give creative mode the option to turn off flying, turn off spawning items, turn on health and hunger, etc., then you just have survival!
This point is meant to address people like you who think the experience would be compromised if survival was actually focused on surviving instead of aesthetics and you still missed the point. How the fuck would allowing a player to blend creative and survival together make anything useless? OP is basically suggesting a slider to determine how much of the game you want to be focused on the creative building experience and how much on the surviving experience.
4. The WORST thing about the post was the bit on the graphics. I can respect that you don't call Minecraft's graphics horrible because it is made of blocks, but the default textures need NO work at all. It may be nostalgia talking, but Minecraft's textures make it unique from the clones that are made. Realistically, there is only so much you can do with 16x16, and they aren't going to up the ante. All we would be doing is going from good to good, and it would be an unnecessary change to the textures we know and love. For those who think differently, texture packs are not hard to install whatsoever.
If you understand that you're talking out of your own ass and accurately realize it's just nostalgia, then omit your point completely because it's already void. Look at the new model and texture for horses. While blocks are different since they naturally have to fit together and look aesthetically pleasing when paired with almost any other block, it's not like they do that now with the current textures. All we would be doing is going from once-acceptable-now-lazy to good, how you got going from good to good I have no clue.
The problem with 'fixing' Minecraft is that it is a different experience for everyone. You won't be able to please every single person. But the wrong idea is making it a hardcore game at its core. Hardcore players are more suited to download mods if they wish for things to really become more difficult.
This entire topic is about fixing survival mode, not Minecraft. You'd know that if you took off your Minecraft t-shirt and payed attention to the literal title of the page. If you don't want people to be happy with actually difficult survival mechanics, reread the FAT section you were particularly concerned with.
lol, I havent been active on this thread for close to 8 months now (more or less) Im gonna have a loooot of catching up to do.
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If facebook, Myspage, and Twitter were all destroyed, 90% of teens would go insane. If you're one of the 10% that would be laughing at them, copy this into your signature and hope it happens.
is it? the blog was started in march so its a little old but he may still work on it but with the new coding required for textures idk
I agree with this entirely.
Silents: Mojang should absolutely fix flaws, such as repetitive terrain, glitchy movement, lighting, mobs cheating through fences, etc. The lack of endless levels of progress in the game, complexity in combat, etc. are not flaws. Well okay, there is always room for improvement, but it's not essential.
Minecraft has hundreds of hours of game play even though every thing can be found and acquired in ten. What's this mean? It means the game play doesn't lie in depth but breadth, and there's a lot of it. To push for deep play in the core is to miss the point. It's up to map makers and creative individuals to use Minecraft to make thousands of interesting play experiences, not Mojang to establish just one.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
Exactly. Hence the modding, hence the mini games, hence the various adventure servers/maps(MineZ, Herobrines mansion series, Etc., etc.). Minecraft has such a potential for that area, that to alter the vanilla to be more like those would end up limiting both aspects in their excitement and creativity. Us, there are, as you said, flaws. Terrain, movement, and visual control/lighting/clarity are my three top flaws as well. But, these are 1: not anywhere near reasons not to play the game, and 2: very fixable. I personally see very few of the OP's suggestions/complaints as ACTUAL flaws, I just see them as the confusion and dismay of a "traditional" gamer playing a "non-traditional" game.
I more or less pointed out that it has a lot of potential, but that it never really makes use of this potential. Whether or not it's a "good" game is up for debate, but regardless, there's a lot of things it could use improving- which was the overall point of my original post.
The thing is, Minecraft has a huge base for content- like, you could just throw in SO much content into Minecraft, and it would receive it VERY well. Blocks, mobs, biomes, items, etc- they're all things you can add more and more to, and it wouldn't detract from the game at all. As long as none of them are "forced" elements, of course (having a bajillion mobs all bombard you at once would be annoying).
Admittedly I've been rather strong in my general tone, but that's more or less a reaction to the endless heaps of praise Minecraft gets. It's alright to be positive, but Minecraft gets TOO much positive praise, and has its flaws grossly overlooked. Even by so-called "critics", who dole out 10/10's for far too many games these days.
So what would be wrong with adding more stuff? Compared to even static videogames (which require a lot of though and effort into how they're implemented), you can pretty much just throw in content to Minecraft and it'll usually work pretty fine. Granted, when I say "throw in", I don't mean toss it into the code and leave it at that- but there's so many biomes, mods, blocks, and etc that could be added with virtually no effort, but they just... aren't.
With mods, sure. Also, again, saying what Notch & co "intended" isn't really relevant.
I understand pretty well what makes Minecraft "good". I also understand it has a lot- a LOT- of room for expansion. Expansion that Mojang takes literally months to add.
I'm curious what you mean when you say "directed play". Do you mean the kind of content that is added with a specific purpose, to let the player experience it "as intended" with little to no interaction from outside sources? Because I fully advocate dynamic content that interacts with the rest of the world seamlessly. I would never want Minecraft to ever be "streamlined" or Skyrim-itized.
The point is that you really need mods if you want a decent amount of depth when it comes to content. That's... not really acceptable when you have a talented team at hand who could add this content (likely with more refining and cohesion).
You can pretty much easily sum up all of Minecraft's content in one image. I don't mean a specific image, but it's not really hard to represent 90% of Minecraft's content. That's the thing that's bothersome. There just isn't much content at all.
They can avoid "changing the balance and feel of the game" and still add content. They can add a LOT of content.
You can't really create that many fleshed out games with Minecraft at all, though. Even with the redstone update and stuff, you can't just make Banjo Kazooie or something out of Minecraft. You can't even really make Super Mario Brothers.
It's not that great, and you really overrate how much Minecraft is for a "create-your-own-game" platform. It lacks far too many elements to make this remotely decent (namely, a proper set of creative mode tools for map makers...).
I intend to make an overhaul mod for Minecraft, as well as my own game, yes.
I don't see why you say "Have fun with all that time spent" as though it's supposed to mean something. I fully understand the amount of time and effort it makes to create a video game.
It wouldn't really be a "niche" game if my intended plans were put forth. It'd just be Minecraft with more to it in every single way.
Yeah. I don't intend to release anything until the API is out. It's mind numbingly painful to have to re-do the code every single update.
I like the difficulty of skeletons themselves now. They're as difficult as they should have been, now. The issue is their frequency. I went over individual difficulty vs overall difficulty before, and I think this change actually made the game a lot harder- and not in a good way.
Remember, despite people thinking I'm advocating turning the game into some kind of Castlevania or Dark Souls-esque game in terms of difficulty, I'm not. I'd like it to remain possible to avoid most difficulty if you really don't want to get your butt kicked. Minecraft should be a peaceful game.
To remedy this, they just need to make skeletons not spawn above ground anymore. Make 'em spawn around layer 50 and below.
"Close-mindedness"? That's a pretty bold statement. I fully welcome other trains of thought, suggestions, and ideas. I prefer discussion. It's why I posted it in a forum in the first place, instead of a soapbox simulator like tumblr.
I... what? Where did I say "Minecraft should be a storyline, mission based, roleplaying game"? Where on earth are you drawing that from?
I have- from the very beginning- simply advocated (rather strongly, admittedly) that Minecraft should have a lot more content. It has a fantastic base for content creation, but not enough of it in any of its given methods.
The only thing I would say I've really advocated for changing/overhauling is the general difficulty and combat- but not to make it "harder" or the like. Just to make it more dynamic, and to be yet another element for content expansion.
No, I don't. I don't feel that at all. Quit strawmanning.
It should never be more confusing or restricting.
Which I strongly advocated in one of my initial points in the original post.
Not until the API is out- even then, it'll be some time before I push out a release for it. I'm jugging a lot of different projects and have been rather busy as of late, but I do intend to make a mod for Minecraft to at least somewhat rectify a lot of my complaints.
And? A lot of its points are still relevant. Only a few of them aren't too relevant anymore (the slime spawning, which was actually added, for example). Each major point is still very much so relevant to Minecraft today.
I don't think every mod should be implemented into vanilla. Only the ones that add content without inhibiting the content of other mods should be put in. It's funny you point out stuff like "MineZ", because that's the exact kind of stuff I wouldn't want in vanilla.
1: I never said "Nobody should play the game because these are lacking!".
2: Exactly. They could be fixed, but aren't.
Leave it Mojang when it comes to creating Minecraft...
Where did I suggest linear content? Progression should be there, but only if you want to progress. And I only meant that in the sense that it should be a way to allow for dynamic difficulty- so it's not really even "progression".
Combat should be improved regardless. Not made to be "harder" or needlessly complex (see: fighting games), but just have a bit more to it. It's painfully, painfully boring and lacking right now. Literally all you do is click and sorta aim.
How are they "terrible"?
What is this supposed to mean? The player doesn't have the choice to develop without having to "progress" as scripted through the gameplay?? That statement confused me.
I don't know where you're getting "scripted" from.
I meant that if you wanted an easier time, you would stay above ground. If you wanted to progress into harder difficulties, you would progress downwards into the earth and into places like the nether. That is ideally how difficulty should work, and is what I discussed in the OP. Right now, difficulty is pretty much the same no matter which biome you're in (because mobs spawn the same in every place), or how far you're down. The only real difference is lava in the deeper areas. That's it.
Other than that, I didn't really suggest progression.
Also, you have yet to explain how I suggested "other linear content".
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
You're totally missing the concept of Minecraft, adding really anything that is on this list to the actual game would effect the gameplay so much that it wouldn't feel as "Minecraft" anymore.
Plus, the way you wrote the thread, mocking on Minecraft is just ignorant.
You've got to understand that Minecraft isn't a roleplaying game, it's a game where you place blocks, create the coolest things and survive.
Minecraft is a very original and strange game, it's the reason I fell in love with it.
Also you mocking on Mojang, saying that they don't update Minecraft enough is the thing I disagree with the most.
Every update is major, sometimes I dislike how much they change to the game, seeing this thread just makes me wanna hit myself again a wall.
I can't believe this thread got this popular, this is honestly just garbage.
Aye, I see. Thank you for the clarification. And I would actually agree with increasing difficulty as the player goes deeper. This could also be worked into the cubic chunks thread. What I was reading into your OP was that you would like to add elements similar to player leveling, as different things were achieved different things were added to make it more difficult. Now your post makes more sense. I still don't totally agree, but I could live with it.
What exactly feels like Minecraft? If his ideas were added when the game was created, would it still feel like Minecraft? It just seems that change is unwelcome because it changes something that feels familiar to you.
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Curse PremiumBasically don't mess with a good thing
Yeah, but what's the point of a trophy if it's not only easy to get, but doesn't really do anything? Also, I would like to think that were progressive difficulty added, you could still have access to all the basics fairly easily- iron, etc. If anything, getting iron would be about the same, and the above ground portion of the game would actually be easier (if my ideas were put in). So you could still get a lot of materials pretty easy.
What is "Minecraft"? Does everyone share your sentiments? Even if they do, what does that mean? Why should it be considered over ideas that expand the content of the game?
I'm not "mocking on" Minecraft. I'm pointing out its flaws.
It's actually not all that original. It's just got elements from various games cobbled together (Dwarf Fortress, Infiniminer, Dungeon Keeper).
Besides, I haven't been suggesting they make it a roleplaying game. I don't know where this keeps coming from.
They both do and don't. They update too frequently (thus breaking mods constantly), but the actual content of the updates is very small. Compare it to mod teams who don't do this as their job. Mod makers push out content at an amazing rate. A professional team can't even compete with a single modding team. That's ridiculous.
Nah, I don't really like that idea. Notch said at some point that he doesn't like the idea of things magically popping up after you do X thing- and I'd have to agree with him. The Enderman idea could be considered something like that, but it would just change their behavior and spawn rate- not exactly the same as spawning a new mob. Plus, it was just a random idea- one I admittedly didn't think through very much.
Pretty much everything else works off the basis of mobs being found in different areas.
Go find an old version of the game and stick to that. You're not forced to update.
Minecraft has a bunch of flaws- and to be honest, I'd prefer they fix them in large sweeping updates rather than monthly updates (where major updates are once every 4-5 months), but whatever. It's still a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed. If they kept it as it was in 1.0, it would be mind numbingly bad.
1. Those 'small charms' you speak of are insanely important to many players. Especially when it comes to a lack of tutorial, where it adds to the survival feel. You do explain why it is 'necessary', but it would really kill a fun feeling of 'lone wolf survival'. If Minecraft gets a PC tutorial, then I leave the country...
2. Do not make Minecraft a hardcore/horror game. Obviously you weren't suggesting the horror as much, but a lot of your ideas seem like they are for people who are only here to survive in a 'man vs. beast' sort of way, where as many of us like Minecraft survival for its creativity and 'man vs. nature'
3. Following up my point that people like playing Minecraft to be creative, I have to acknowledge the first thing in your 'FAT' section. Your plan of adding options to creative is useless, since most people who want to feel accomplished for building want to use EVERY feature survival has. If you give creative mode the option to turn off flying, turn off spawning items, turn on health and hunger, etc., then you just have survival!
4. The WORST thing about the post was the bit on the graphics. I can respect that you don't call Minecraft's graphics horrible because it is made of blocks, but the default textures need NO work at all. It may be nostalgia talking, but Minecraft's textures make it unique from the clones that are made. Realistically, there is only so much you can do with 16x16, and they aren't going to up the ante. All we would be doing is going from good to good, and it would be an unnecessary change to the textures we know and love. For those who think differently, texture packs are not hard to install whatsoever.
The problem with 'fixing' Minecraft is that it is a different experience for everyone. You won't be able to please every single person. But the wrong idea is making it a hardcore game at its core. Hardcore players are more suited to download mods if they wish for things to really become more difficult.
Last thing, promise. In response you your post directly above this one, we really are forced to upgrade versions, seeing as it isn't particularly legal to obtain a previous jar, and multiplayer servers won't linger around in beta 1.3.6.
Well I'll stop there. Sorry if that didn't sound intelligent or well-thought out, but after losing my initial post I just half-assed this one.
Just go already then, if the only thing holding the game back from being better is it's god-awful fan base then you're part of the problem. Charms don't make a game's mechanics good. You contradict yourself by saying the lack of a tutorial adds to the fun feeling of "lone wolf survival", then say ...
... you don't want some hardcore experience. Having no tutorial and being required to learn all crafting recipes yourself is a very difficult task, almost unfair. Survival is survival, let it be a fun survival game instead of a shitty survival game and a somewhat-okay building game.
This point is meant to address people like you who think the experience would be compromised if survival was actually focused on surviving instead of aesthetics and you still missed the point. How the fuck would allowing a player to blend creative and survival together make anything useless? OP is basically suggesting a slider to determine how much of the game you want to be focused on the creative building experience and how much on the surviving experience.
If you understand that you're talking out of your own ass and accurately realize it's just nostalgia, then omit your point completely because it's already void. Look at the new model and texture for horses. While blocks are different since they naturally have to fit together and look aesthetically pleasing when paired with almost any other block, it's not like they do that now with the current textures. All we would be doing is going from once-acceptable-now-lazy to good, how you got going from good to good I have no clue.
This entire topic is about fixing survival mode, not Minecraft. You'd know that if you took off your Minecraft t-shirt and payed attention to the literal title of the page. If you don't want people to be happy with actually difficult survival mechanics, reread the FAT section you were particularly concerned with.
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Curse PremiumYou could fill a book with all these features - and not a single one would be bad. Excellent post you have here.