Insurrection, in the OP you start by saying minecraft is a good game but there are a lot of ways things can be made better. I agree with your original statement on both points. I also agree that many of your ideas for improving the game (much of points 2-6) would be good for the game. I just think you missed the basic point of minecraft.
I'm sure you are aware that LOTS of people like building and doing whatever they feel like, and enjoy having this freedom. You exaggerate grossly when you say minecraft has almost nothing of interest, simply because it doesn't have many directed challenges. This doesn't mean that adding such challenges wouldn't be good to add; I'm merely reacting to your overly strong negativity.
But there isn't really anything to build.
...
But again, there isn't really much to build with, or much to build other than just making cool looking things. It's all superfluous. I'm suggesting they add more to the building- more to find, more to explore, more to experience.
...
Also, when I say there's "nothing to collect", I don't mean it literally. Look at Terraria- it has so much more to collect and build with, and building isn't even the focus! Minecraft has the development team, the community power, and just so much more resources to work with- but it forgoes all of that. And for what? To keep it "simple"? To appease extremely easy to please people? We could have so much more- why are we letting people like that hold this game back from its true potential?
By starting with an overly strong negative, you push me to react. Then you pull back, and say something much more reasonable.
But there are no physics. They offer literally no physics to work with at all- it's just place and remove. Sand and gravel is the only thing remotely resembling physics. That's not a challenge- that's a complete lack of challenge.
Again, overly strong. There is water, lava, moving items, mob forces, fire, TNT, projectiles, pistons. The challenge is making interesting things out of them.
And again, I'm suggesting they add more to make it more interesting. No, I don't mean tacking on mobs, making it needlessly harder, or etc- I don't want Mo' Creatures. But if you had read my initial post, you'd understand that.
I did read it and I do understand that.
I'm not saying Minecraft needs to completely destroy itself and then start over again. I'm saying virtually everything needs to be expanded upon- because virtually everything is extremely simple (to a fault), poorly thought out, and almost entirely lacking in cohesiveness.
I believe this is by design. Notch himself has said he's not interested in making a game as such. He wants to create the tools by which people can create their own fun. And people do, by the millions. They are aiming for breadth, and leaving it up to the community to create depth. The core game is shallow, and does what it needs to enable people to create their own thing.
I'm not against your proposals. I'm against your saying minecraft is bad. If you don't understand what's good in minecraft already, you will simply be pushing to make it go a direction that doesn't belong to the core. I'll say it differently: Minecraft is a platform for people to create their own game. And it's good as that.
I understand that you're trying to get the game changed, and I like all of your ideas. However, I have one question. Where the hell did you get all this time to type all this out?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Hmm... no diamonds here. Maybe I should look underground?"
I'm not saying Minecraft needs to completely destroy itself and then start over again. I'm saying virtually everything needs to be expanded upon- because virtually everything is extremely simple (to a fault), poorly thought out, and almost entirely lacking in cohesiveness.
I believe this is by design. Notch himself has said he's not interested in making a game as such.
See:
Quote from OP »
Pointing out what Notch, Jeb, and/or Mojang "intended" is rather irrelevant. Even if you provide proof of where they actually said what their intentions are, this thread is a criticism of flaws. Generally speaking, no one ever intends to create flaws. That's why they're called flaws- why they're synonymous with accidents. Most of the time, flaws are unintentional. However, if it's an intentional flaw, then it needs to be changed even more.
He wants to create the tools by which people can create their own fun. And people do, by the millions. They are aiming for breadth, and leaving it up to the community to create depth. The core game is shallow, and does what it needs to enable people to create their own thing.
Yes, those are called mods, many of which add content that Minecraft itself is sorely lacking. If the base game were better, the mods could work on adding more details instead of basic content that is being repeated by a billion mods in barely different ways.
I'm not talking about mods. I'm talking about map making. Minecraft excels as a platform for building the games which take advantage of the features in survival mode.
I'm not arguing that survival can't be improved. I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be pushed in the direction of deep directed play. Mojang should not emphasize directional content, but continue adding open-ended content that can be used to make whatever.
As for mods, there's no end to inventing new stuff, but that doesn't mean minecraft is a bad game because people create mods.
I'm not talking about mods. I'm talking about map making. Minecraft excels as a platform for building the games which take advantage of the features in survival mode.
If map-making takes advantage of survival mode features, why not improve survival mode to make maps more interesting to play? Also, just because it excels at a certain area, it isn't an excuse not to improve other aspects of the game.
I'm not arguing that survival can't be improved. I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be pushed in the direction of deep directed play. Mojang should not emphasize directional content, but continue adding open-ended content that can be used to make whatever.
So if Mojang does add more open-ended content, should they depend on the community to fill in the spaces that they are lacking in?
As for mods, there's no end to inventing new stuff, but that doesn't mean minecraft is a bad game because people create mods.
Minecraft has enough content for people to be hooked to it for a while. But later on when a lot of people depend on mods to make it the game they want it to be, this means that there's something missing from the gameplay of Minecraft that people find interesting. Minecraft isn't a bad game because of mods necessarily, but when people look to mods where Minecraft is lacking, that's where it can be better.
So if Mojang does add more open-ended content, should they depend on the community to fill in the spaces that they are lacking in?
I object to the word "lacking". It's impossible to be everything to everyone. Is there something not in survival that if added could make it better? An infinite amount of different things. Is there some basic changes that would make a big enhancement? Perhaps some of those should be done.
Minecraft has enough content for people to be hooked to it for a while. But later on when a lot of people depend on mods to make it the game they want it to be, this means that there's something missing from the gameplay of Minecraft that people find interesting. Minecraft isn't a bad game because of mods necessarily, but when people look to mods where Minecraft is lacking, that's where it can be better.
Every game has a limited playability. Minecraft's is measured in years. But if people get tired of the same, well that's no surprise. That mods provide something different is no surprise. Mojang continues to add various things to make the game more interesting and that's exactly what they should do. And they must restrain themselves to avoid changing the balance and feel of the game from what people like to something very different. None of this means minecraft is incomplete.
Minecraft is a create-your-own game. It will never be a FPS. But it can be whatever else you or somebody makes of it. Do tell what gameplay can't be made or can't be done that should be.
You want to have all these changes? Go make your own game and do all the work yourself.Have fun with all that time spent.
http://abetterminecraft.blogspot.com/ This is the blog where he gives updates on his total conversion mod and/or new game entirely (albeit rarely). So, in a way, he *is* making his own game and doing all the work to get these changes.
http://abetterminecraft.blogspot.com/ This is the blog where he gives updates on his total conversion mod and/or new game entirely (albeit rarely). So, in a way, he *is* making his own game and doing all the work to get these changes.
Cool, didn't know that. Hope he is enjoying the endless hours of work
Quoiting that blog: "Design is still HEAVILY being worked on (and has been for the past, well, almost year now), but the more and more things are discussed, the more I realized I'd need to completely rip out Minecraft's code and overhaul it. It isn't worth it from that perspective."
I think this is the right answer for OP. The changes proposed could be done via mods, but it's really turning Minecraft into something else. Which is the point of minecraft anyway to do that, but the result would be a very niche game compared to minecraft itself. But for the extent of changes suggested here, it's a lot of work any way you slice it.
Comrade, I began by making a point-by-point analysis to this post, in near complete agreement, however my computer likes to eat that sort of thing. So for the time being, you have merely my support and heartfelt desire for this post to be read time and again by the team at Mojang.
Quoiting that blog: "Design is still HEAVILY being worked on (and has been for the past, well, almost year now), but the more and more things are discussed, the more I realized I'd need to completely rip out Minecraft's code and overhaul it. It isn't worth it from that perspective."
I think this is the right answer for OP. The changes proposed could be done via mods, but it's really turning Minecraft into something else. Which is the point of minecraft anyway to do that, but the result would be a very niche game compared to minecraft itself. But for the extent of changes suggested here, it's a lot of work any way you slice it.
I've always thought of it being more of an overhaul, and those things typically have some pretty hefty changes.
Suppose the API is needed to do anything that major without it becoming too much of a pain, though.
Okay, MC2.0 was a good joke. Meanwhile, I find 1.5 changes to skeletons and zombies are a good step in the direction of making MC a little more challenging. Personally I think that's all they should do: Keep making incremental improvements to the game.
Okay, MC2.0 was a good joke. Meanwhile, I find 1.5 changes to skeletons and zombies are a good step in the direction of making MC a little more challenging. Personally I think that's all they should do: Keep making incremental improvements to the game.
Too bad version 2.0 was April Fools joke. Would've been awesome if it was real.
Personally, the changes to the skeletons, the rapid shooting and practically 100% accuracy sucks. It sure does make the game harder, no problem there. The problem is it's at a ridiculous level. Before if you were good, even without armor you could take on 2-3 skeletons with an iron/diamond sword. Now it is impossible without some kind of armor, and with enough skeletons even an enchanted diamond armor is nothing.
I think it's a step in the right direction, but they really gave the difficulty a big boost.
Again, it's hard, no problem there. But it's not the right kind of hard. If you lose really it isn't your fault for losing, except for even getting in the fight. I don't like that. The right hard is when you can do it, if you lose you feel like it's your fault, and if you win it's because you were able enough. Right now it's just impossible to get that feel I think.
I think it's a good way to push the bow though. But I don't like that either. I'm a melee user, I only use the bow in PvP, I never use it for mobs, but now I'm forced to, and I don't like that. It gives me less freedom than before.
Again, these are just my thoughts, however I think they're quite true.
Well I'm back now. Yay. Anyways, my enter key seems to not be working on the forums at the moment, so I'll check back tomorrow I suppose. I would like Iajube to explain his point in this, though. Minecraft has flaws in just about every single part of it due to those parts not being well expanded upon. Instead of fixing the flaws and allowing for MORE diversity and creativity, he would rather keep things the way they are going and make more flaws, all so we can have more miscellaneous and random items. Am I reading his posts correctly, or is there some misunderstanding here?
You have completely lost the entire concept of Minecraft, and I pity your closed-mindedness. Throughout your post, your main topic was progression, challenges, advancing difficulty, developing gameplay along a timeline. I don't know if you just don't understand the game, or simply choose to ignore the inspired genius of it, but Minecraft is NOT A STORYLINE, MISSION-BASED, OR ROLE PLAYING GAME. It is a SANDBOX. If you don't understand the difference.... You shouldn't be on the forum. You should be playing the game constantly until you figure out how it works. Nuff said.
Well I'm back now. Yay. Anyways, my enter key seems to not be working on the forums at the moment, so I'll check back tomorrow I suppose. I would like Iajube to explain his point in this, though. Minecraft has flaws in just about every single part of it due to those parts not being well expanded upon. Instead of fixing the flaws and allowing for MORE diversity and creativity, he would rather keep things the way they are going and make more flaws, all so we can have more miscellaneous and random items. Am I reading his posts correctly, or is there some misunderstanding here?
You are completely correct. As I've just stated, the OP seems to feel the need to make minecraft MORE structured, with less breathing room within the "rules", which is what I feel is the opposite of the games goal.
There are many more ways to improve the game without making it more confusing and restricting. One of which, is to expand and alter the biomes! The adventure update helped, but more, and more needs to be added, the exploration aspect of minecraft, while having so much potential, tends to be strangled by the lack of things to explore!
I'm sure you are aware that LOTS of people like building and doing whatever they feel like, and enjoy having this freedom. You exaggerate grossly when you say minecraft has almost nothing of interest, simply because it doesn't have many directed challenges. This doesn't mean that adding such challenges wouldn't be good to add; I'm merely reacting to your overly strong negativity.
By starting with an overly strong negative, you push me to react. Then you pull back, and say something much more reasonable.
Again, overly strong. There is water, lava, moving items, mob forces, fire, TNT, projectiles, pistons. The challenge is making interesting things out of them.
I did read it and I do understand that.
I believe this is by design. Notch himself has said he's not interested in making a game as such. He wants to create the tools by which people can create their own fun. And people do, by the millions. They are aiming for breadth, and leaving it up to the community to create depth. The core game is shallow, and does what it needs to enable people to create their own thing.
I'm not against your proposals. I'm against your saying minecraft is bad. If you don't understand what's good in minecraft already, you will simply be pushing to make it go a direction that doesn't belong to the core. I'll say it differently: Minecraft is a platform for people to create their own game. And it's good as that.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
"Hmm... no diamonds here. Maybe I should look underground?"
Yes, those are called mods, many of which add content that Minecraft itself is sorely lacking. If the base game were better, the mods could work on adding more details instead of basic content that is being repeated by a billion mods in barely different ways.
I'm not arguing that survival can't be improved. I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be pushed in the direction of deep directed play. Mojang should not emphasize directional content, but continue adding open-ended content that can be used to make whatever.
As for mods, there's no end to inventing new stuff, but that doesn't mean minecraft is a bad game because people create mods.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
If map-making takes advantage of survival mode features, why not improve survival mode to make maps more interesting to play? Also, just because it excels at a certain area, it isn't an excuse not to improve other aspects of the game.
So if Mojang does add more open-ended content, should they depend on the community to fill in the spaces that they are lacking in?
Minecraft has enough content for people to be hooked to it for a while. But later on when a lot of people depend on mods to make it the game they want it to be, this means that there's something missing from the gameplay of Minecraft that people find interesting. Minecraft isn't a bad game because of mods necessarily, but when people look to mods where Minecraft is lacking, that's where it can be better.
I object to the word "lacking". It's impossible to be everything to everyone. Is there something not in survival that if added could make it better? An infinite amount of different things. Is there some basic changes that would make a big enhancement? Perhaps some of those should be done.
Every game has a limited playability. Minecraft's is measured in years. But if people get tired of the same, well that's no surprise. That mods provide something different is no surprise. Mojang continues to add various things to make the game more interesting and that's exactly what they should do. And they must restrain themselves to avoid changing the balance and feel of the game from what people like to something very different. None of this means minecraft is incomplete.
Minecraft is a create-your-own game. It will never be a FPS. But it can be whatever else you or somebody makes of it. Do tell what gameplay can't be made or can't be done that should be.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
http://abetterminecraft.blogspot.com/ This is the blog where he gives updates on his total conversion mod and/or new game entirely (albeit rarely). So, in a way, he *is* making his own game and doing all the work to get these changes.
Cool, didn't know that. Hope he is enjoying the endless hours of work
I think this is the right answer for OP. The changes proposed could be done via mods, but it's really turning Minecraft into something else. Which is the point of minecraft anyway to do that, but the result would be a very niche game compared to minecraft itself. But for the extent of changes suggested here, it's a lot of work any way you slice it.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
I've always thought of it being more of an overhaul, and those things typically have some pretty hefty changes.
Suppose the API is needed to do anything that major without it becoming too much of a pain, though.
Begin! I think it's good. Compared to the current Minecraft I'm very happy with it, very very happy.
Quote my post to bring me back to the topic, in case you answered/talked to me, thank you.
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
Too bad version 2.0 was April Fools joke. Would've been awesome if it was real.
Personally, the changes to the skeletons, the rapid shooting and practically 100% accuracy sucks. It sure does make the game harder, no problem there. The problem is it's at a ridiculous level. Before if you were good, even without armor you could take on 2-3 skeletons with an iron/diamond sword. Now it is impossible without some kind of armor, and with enough skeletons even an enchanted diamond armor is nothing.
I think it's a step in the right direction, but they really gave the difficulty a big boost.
Again, it's hard, no problem there. But it's not the right kind of hard. If you lose really it isn't your fault for losing, except for even getting in the fight. I don't like that. The right hard is when you can do it, if you lose you feel like it's your fault, and if you win it's because you were able enough. Right now it's just impossible to get that feel I think.
I think it's a good way to push the bow though. But I don't like that either. I'm a melee user, I only use the bow in PvP, I never use it for mobs, but now I'm forced to, and I don't like that. It gives me less freedom than before.
Again, these are just my thoughts, however I think they're quite true.
Quote my post to bring me back to the topic, in case you answered/talked to me, thank you.
You have completely lost the entire concept of Minecraft, and I pity your closed-mindedness. Throughout your post, your main topic was progression, challenges, advancing difficulty, developing gameplay along a timeline. I don't know if you just don't understand the game, or simply choose to ignore the inspired genius of it, but Minecraft is NOT A STORYLINE, MISSION-BASED, OR ROLE PLAYING GAME. It is a SANDBOX. If you don't understand the difference.... You shouldn't be on the forum. You should be playing the game constantly until you figure out how it works. Nuff said.
You are completely correct. As I've just stated, the OP seems to feel the need to make minecraft MORE structured, with less breathing room within the "rules", which is what I feel is the opposite of the games goal.
click on my eggs
OR YOU WILL DIE