Jeb was told by Notch to cultivate the sandbox nature of the game instead of continue the road to a pure survival experience. This was done because that's what the community is asking for. When we look for Roguelike survival games we go somewhere else. They are a dime a dozen, while Minecraft is still fairly unique.
]
I don't mind the RPG stuff. I mind that it has been balanced to be too easy. XP was fine, but right now the only source of XP we lack is XP for breathing. You get XP for doing ANYTHING.
Similarly, you get food (potatoes) off of mobs. It's a mess. And F3 is a frakking debug tool, not an ingame feature. same for ingame difficulty change
They are doing exactly what the community wants in the pace they are able too. The fact that Minecraft still have increasing sales after 2 years should be solid evidence.
I suspect that if Minecraft had been coded in C/++ rather than Java, sales would be MUCH worse due to the lack of any ability to mod it (even now they STILL haven't put a single bit of a mod api into Minecraft months after they said they would get at least a basic barebones framework going).
250,816 threads with 3,929,408 posts. That's from the 14 [sub]forums dedicated to all things modding on the MCF site.
From the newly created FTB modpack forums: 2327 threads with 24,631 posts.
From the somewhat longer-lived Technic/Tekkit modpack forums: 26,043 threads with 219,385 posts.
Totasl: 279,186 threads and 4,173,424 posts. That's 23.15% of ALL of the posts on MCF + FTB + Technic forums, as in almost A QUARTER OF ALL OF THE POSTS; and that's just the lower limit.
I suspect that if Minecraft had been coded in C/++ rather than Java, sales would be MUCH worse due to the lack of any ability to mod it (even now they STILL haven't put a single bit of a mod api into Minecraft months after they said they would get at least a basic barebones framework going).
250,816 threads with 3,929,408 posts. That's from the 14 [sub]forums dedicated to all things modding on the MCF site.
From the newly created FTB modpack forums: 2327 threads with 24,631 posts.
From the somewhat longer-lived Technic/Tekkit modpack forums: 26,043 threads with 219,385 posts.
Totasl: 279,186 threads and 4,173,424 posts. That's 23.15% of ALL of the posts on MCF + FTB + Technic forums, as in almost A QUARTER OF ALL OF THE POSTS; and that's just the lower limit.
I kind of agree, but if they had that Mod API, there wouldn't be any problem at all, because you would be able to make the mods, the problem is they haven't.
Okay, to all the people saying that they like the game the way it is: Creative Mode. It would have a ton of togglable features so that you could play the current survival in it. I hardly see how THAT is a bad thing. Everyone gets what they want if we do that.
Now for some suggestions and replies.
As for crafting, I like the grid. It's convenient, simple, and has the right feel to it. I do think there should be a way to make a larger grid though, just so there would be room for more complex things. Even if we do trash the grid, I don't think there should be a minigame. I don't want to have to perform unnecessary steps that just waste time for simple creations.
As for the people saying "Spears? HA! Adding more variety and player customization would completely ruin the entire point of combat! ... Somehow... Anyways, how would you even MAKE them? The ONLY possible recipe is for shovels." ... Well, you are aware that sticks can be placed in the crafting bench DIAGONALLY, right? It would be something like this:
( = Stick, = Empty, = Weapon Material)
Other new weapons could be made diagonal as well. Pretty obvious solution there.
Tutorial: Maybe there could be a new button in the inventory screen, and clicking it would open up a special sort of "guide". The guide would have basic information and be written as though it were written by the player as a sort of journal. The guide would have personal notes hinting at possible things to do ("If I'm going to survive, I'm going to need tools and supplies. Maybe I could make a sort of makeshift workbench to make my tools on."). The hints would be fairly obvious at first, but after the player knows how to do the basics (crafting, mobs, etc), they would get a bit more clever. The point is to tell people some of the things they CAN make, maybe hint at some of the materials, so that they aren't totally blind. The guide would also record what you learn, such as recipes for items you have already made, how durable certain materials are, tips for dealing with mobs, and general information. Note that it only records things this way that you would have already learned, as a sort of reference book or reminder. The idea is to take the wiki, scrap everything but the basic info that you pretty much need to play the game, and make it accessible in-game while not giving away enough information to ruin the experience of figuring things out on your own.
As for mobs... Well, having hostile mobs spawn mostly underground is a good idea. But I'm kind of against it. There need to be a few mobs that ONLY spawn in the overworld. I think that Spiders shouldn't really spawn underground either (the normal ones, I mean. There could be underground variants). Non-tame wolves become hostile at night. Et cetera. While I do want to be able to wander around peacefully at night, there needs to be a fair amount of danger so that you have an actual reason to build a shelter. Having few hostiles doesn't achieve this. I'm not saying there need to be a bunch though, or even a medium amount. Just make it to where you encounter them little enough to wander outside at night peacefully, yet still be on your guard. Sort of like the forests in Skyrim.
Going back to Spiders, how about we make them spin actual webs like real spiders, instead of just randomly producing web where they walk? They would have to be sort of difficult... but not really hard... to see, and behave exactly like cobweb. Spiders themselves would wait nearby, and be completely neutral until one of two things happen: You attack them, or you step into the webbing. If normal spiders don't work this way, maybe a new kind could?
I feel the Nether just isn't really worth it. It's only real use is for potions. If memory serves, the only things that mobs drop that you can't get in the overworld are potion items. You also need the blase rods for eyes of ender, but once you get a few, you never need to go there again. Sure, potions are nice, but you don't really need them. If you're like me and don't use potions much, then the Nether is near useless. It needs to be expanded on. It's one of the more dangerous places in Minecraft, and just isn't worth all the risks. Plus there's barely anything there to get in the first place. Nether definitely needs more content.
I also remember reading something about a Ghoul that would serve as a sort of leader for other undead, or be a "siege" mob. That isn't really how I picture ghouls. I think they should be slightly smaller than the player (about 1.5-1.75 blocks tall), move around in fast, jittery motions, make a mad dash for the player when they see them... Be a sort of hyperactive psychopath on an extreme sugar rush kind of thing. Maybe the siege mob/undead leader could be named something else?
As for Texture Packs, yeah. There need to be official, Mojang-Made texture packs. Especially if they are higher or lower resolution versions of the default. I was also thinking of a kind of built in Painterly Pack. Not necessarily an in-game one, but I would like to see one added.
I think one of the big issues is that Mojang begun expanding the game in the RPG department then seemed to slow down drasticlly. In the time Minecraft has been in development, it could have potentially yielded an amazing game with many elements from both creative and RPG modes. It hasn't. For example, when written books came out, I was sat at my computer desk thinking "Why did they need to make it when there's already a better plugin for this?".
Sorry for bringing this up again but: The better than Wolves author has a mod that rivals the game itself, programmed just by him, with way more and better, yet still minecrafty content.
I have seen other mods, and what they do, and who did it. 5 of the best modders (that can work together) would achieve way more than Mojang ever can
Sorry for bringing this up again but: The better than Wolves author has a mod that rivals the game itself, programmed just by him, with way more and better, yet still minecrafty content.
I have seen other mods, and what they do, and who did it. 5 of the best modders (that can work together) would achieve way more than Mojang ever can
Coloring by numbers is usually a little bit easier then filling a completely blank canvas.
I'm not dissing modders. A lot of the stuff they create is amassing and require just as much skill and knowledge as what Mojang is putting out, but Minecraft is a project significantly larger than for example BTW.
You could also argue that even though Mojang is quite a few people they are still just a tiny group compared to the 7 million people owning a copy of Minecraft. It would be bloody unbelievable if not a few thousand of those millions were significantly more skilled than the people at Mojang. And when they make mods they create not only a few new mobs or blocks. They can change the gameplay completely.
How do you compare DayZ with Arma 2? Which one is better? Do you think DayZ should have been coded into Arma 2?
Sorry, but this rant is rather pointless in my opinion. Not that some things couldn't be implemented but let me explain why:
As I've played video games well over a decade now, I can see this trend going nowadays, that every game points you where to go, what to do and what not to do. This trend can even be seen in a single game as it evolve over years, for example World of Warcraft. Few years back you didn't have quests pointing exactly to where you need to go.
The problem with this concept is that it discourages any sense of creativity or improvisation. I think that Minecraft is this popular because you learn the game through interaction with the virtual world, and not through boring manuals or hints.
I see what you mean, but what he's suggesting is to make the current Minecraft even better. It won't give you steps to take or a direction to take, quite the contrary, it will give you a lot more stuff to do and think about while playing. Make the game better in other words, not change what it is, but rather add or change a lot to it, in order to improve this sense of freedom it already has. At least that's how I see it.
Coloring by numbers is usually a little bit easier then filling a completely blank canvas.
I'm not dissing modders. A lot of the stuff they create is amassing and require just as much skill and knowledge as what Mojang is putting out, but Minecraft is a project significantly larger than for example BTW.
BTW adds far more than "just a few blocks".
The problem with this concept is that it discourages any sense of creativity or improvisation. I think that Minecraft is this popular because you learn the game through interaction with the virtual world, and not through boring manuals or hints.
this has NOTHING to do with what the OP suggests. He suggests a tutorial for people who never played it before. It's stupid that you need 3rd party sources to figure out how the game works. It doesn't need to hold hands, i hate that in tutorials. But things like crafting recipes? Many of them are only intuitive if you've played the game before...
I don't get why some people have trouble grasping what you are trying to point out here. I've had a lot of trouble trying to get similar ideas across in threads that I have started. It's very simple. Survival mode needs to be greatly expanded upon in order to continue to hold the interest of some of the player base (myself included in that group).
Sure, there's nearly no limit to the fun you can have creatively in Minecraft. But just being creative for the sake of being creative, isn't really all that special. What is special, to some players, is that the survival aspects of Minecraft, gives you a practical reason to build structures, and to innovate with redstone. These aspects give you a world in which to interact with your artwork. This is what hooked me in from the start. But pretty quickly, the survival/gameplay elements wear thin and there really isn't much left to do beyond being creative, and even that loses a little bit of its magic and purpose.
Also, I'm not real big on multiplayer gaming in general. In Minecraft, I enjoy checking out other peoples creations, and showing off mine, but I don't really care for tagging along with dudes that I don't know, for any other purpose. If I do any multiplay at all, it's strictly local. Anyway, a lot more people play Minecraft in single player survival mode, than a lot of people might think. And if you are one of these people, you would know exactly what's wrong with survival mode. The thing is, the game was more fun at first, when survival seemed to matter.
THANK YOU. You have successfully explained what this entire thread is about in a single post!
I don't see why people think we're trying to limit creativity. If anything we're trying to expand on it. Besides, how is ADDING content like new weapons, new mobs, and new movement options "limiting" everything? We're trying to add new and fun mechanics to the game. Not take them away! What we are taking away is a pretty small amount of unnecessary, nonsensical, or just plain stupid mechanics.
(Also, on the off chance that a Mojang employee is reading this, Mod API.)
Wow. Just wow. That is one heck of a thought-out post. I really think that Mojang should implement some of the stuff you mentioned. maybe have skeletons be able to shatter glass panes on Hard? That could work. And the "smart movement" thing? Absolutely. As it is, it is much too simple: walk, strafe, jump, sprint. I mean, really? How hard can it be to use some of the stuff the the SmartMovement mod uses? If one guy could do, there is no reason that developers and professionals can't do this stuff, maybe even improve on it. And the armor thing, too. Sheer brilliance. Hats off to you, my good man! *DSoloha says in a fake British accent* I really think that Minecraft could use something like that. I know of one game that uses such a thing, Runescape. As we all know, Runescape is quite a popular MMORPG (nowhere near as popular as Minecraft, but hey), and in Runescape, you have the option of wearing different armors. Some armors, the stronger ones, make you ba able to sprint at a slower rate than some of the weaker ones, like, for example, the iron armor makes you run at a slightly slower rate than the bronze armor. I also think that the terrain idea is a good one. It would spice up gameplay quite a bit, and you could build even more fantastic creations, such as, for example, a house built over a ravine that has a river below it, in which the player could have a staricase leading down to fish in. (I think I worded that weird - sorry 'bout that!) Well, that's all I've got for now. And you, sir, have earned your self a rep point and a few s. (Use them well, that's an entire veins' worth.)
I love this post. Insurrection, you're brilliant. My Minecraft itself isn't terribly great (Old launcher, bad computer), but your version of minecraft would be amazing. Actual forests (Definitely cool), Spider forests (Better, so much better. I hate them so much and this would only increase my love of hating them, if you know what I mean). Your mob suggestions are brilliant, and I'm actually at a loss to disagree with anything here.
Also, I simply love how you're just... Like... an antitroll if I've ever seen one. You're responding to comments with a cool head, continually point out that you're not saying this MUST happen, only that you believe it SHOULD, and maintain that this is a discussion page. Good job, you're officially one of a rare handful of reasonable opinionated people.
I AGGREED WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD yes this is legendary post, some of the ideas are already made, I think mojang have read this.
You sir, you are awesome.
Who in the name of Soromon the Dark one necroed this post? It was dead and in the ground, but someone had to be a lich and bring it back? Let it die people, it's done enough damage.
Gotta agree with the guy above me. I don't see how does this topic cause any damage, even if I may not agree with some things on it. Generating debate about the quality and features of the game should only improve the game.
Why do you say this topic causes damage?
I don't mind the RPG stuff. I mind that it has been balanced to be too easy. XP was fine, but right now the only source of XP we lack is XP for breathing. You get XP for doing ANYTHING.
Similarly, you get food (potatoes) off of mobs. It's a mess. And F3 is a frakking debug tool, not an ingame feature. same for ingame difficulty change
I suspect that if Minecraft had been coded in C/++ rather than Java, sales would be MUCH worse due to the lack of any ability to mod it (even now they STILL haven't put a single bit of a mod api into Minecraft months after they said they would get at least a basic barebones framework going).
250,816 threads with 3,929,408 posts. That's from the 14 [sub]forums dedicated to all things modding on the MCF site.
From the newly created FTB modpack forums: 2327 threads with 24,631 posts.
From the somewhat longer-lived Technic/Tekkit modpack forums: 26,043 threads with 219,385 posts.
Totasl: 279,186 threads and 4,173,424 posts. That's 23.15% of ALL of the posts on MCF + FTB + Technic forums, as in almost A QUARTER OF ALL OF THE POSTS; and that's just the lower limit.
I kind of agree, but if they had that Mod API, there wouldn't be any problem at all, because you would be able to make the mods, the problem is they haven't.
Quote my post to bring me back to the topic, in case you answered/talked to me, thank you.
Now for some suggestions and replies.
As for crafting, I like the grid. It's convenient, simple, and has the right feel to it. I do think there should be a way to make a larger grid though, just so there would be room for more complex things. Even if we do trash the grid, I don't think there should be a minigame. I don't want to have to perform unnecessary steps that just waste time for simple creations.
As for the people saying "Spears? HA! Adding more variety and player customization would completely ruin the entire point of combat! ... Somehow... Anyways, how would you even MAKE them? The ONLY possible recipe is for shovels." ... Well, you are aware that sticks can be placed in the crafting bench DIAGONALLY, right? It would be something like this:
(
Other new weapons could be made diagonal as well. Pretty obvious solution there.
Tutorial: Maybe there could be a new button in the inventory screen, and clicking it would open up a special sort of "guide". The guide would have basic information and be written as though it were written by the player as a sort of journal. The guide would have personal notes hinting at possible things to do ("If I'm going to survive, I'm going to need tools and supplies. Maybe I could make a sort of makeshift workbench to make my tools on."). The hints would be fairly obvious at first, but after the player knows how to do the basics (crafting, mobs, etc), they would get a bit more clever. The point is to tell people some of the things they CAN make, maybe hint at some of the materials, so that they aren't totally blind. The guide would also record what you learn, such as recipes for items you have already made, how durable certain materials are, tips for dealing with mobs, and general information. Note that it only records things this way that you would have already learned, as a sort of reference book or reminder. The idea is to take the wiki, scrap everything but the basic info that you pretty much need to play the game, and make it accessible in-game while not giving away enough information to ruin the experience of figuring things out on your own.
As for mobs... Well, having hostile mobs spawn mostly underground is a good idea. But I'm kind of against it. There need to be a few mobs that ONLY spawn in the overworld. I think that Spiders shouldn't really spawn underground either (the normal ones, I mean. There could be underground variants). Non-tame wolves become hostile at night. Et cetera. While I do want to be able to wander around peacefully at night, there needs to be a fair amount of danger so that you have an actual reason to build a shelter. Having few hostiles doesn't achieve this. I'm not saying there need to be a bunch though, or even a medium amount. Just make it to where you encounter them little enough to wander outside at night peacefully, yet still be on your guard. Sort of like the forests in Skyrim.
Going back to Spiders, how about we make them spin actual webs like real spiders, instead of just randomly producing web where they walk? They would have to be sort of difficult... but not really hard... to see, and behave exactly like cobweb. Spiders themselves would wait nearby, and be completely neutral until one of two things happen: You attack them, or you step into the webbing. If normal spiders don't work this way, maybe a new kind could?
I feel the Nether just isn't really worth it. It's only real use is for potions. If memory serves, the only things that mobs drop that you can't get in the overworld are potion items. You also need the blase rods for eyes of ender, but once you get a few, you never need to go there again. Sure, potions are nice, but you don't really need them. If you're like me and don't use potions much, then the Nether is near useless. It needs to be expanded on. It's one of the more dangerous places in Minecraft, and just isn't worth all the risks. Plus there's barely anything there to get in the first place. Nether definitely needs more content.
I also remember reading something about a Ghoul that would serve as a sort of leader for other undead, or be a "siege" mob. That isn't really how I picture ghouls. I think they should be slightly smaller than the player (about 1.5-1.75 blocks tall), move around in fast, jittery motions, make a mad dash for the player when they see them... Be a sort of hyperactive psychopath on an extreme sugar rush kind of thing. Maybe the siege mob/undead leader could be named something else?
As for Texture Packs, yeah. There need to be official, Mojang-Made texture packs. Especially if they are higher or lower resolution versions of the default. I was also thinking of a kind of built in Painterly Pack. Not necessarily an in-game one, but I would like to see one added.
And... done.
Great thinking, I agree with this man/woman.
Quote my post to bring me back to the topic, in case you answered/talked to me, thank you.
Sorry for bringing this up again but: The better than Wolves author has a mod that rivals the game itself, programmed just by him, with way more and better, yet still minecrafty content.
I have seen other mods, and what they do, and who did it. 5 of the best modders (that can work together) would achieve way more than Mojang ever can
Coloring by numbers is usually a little bit easier then filling a completely blank canvas.
I'm not dissing modders. A lot of the stuff they create is amassing and require just as much skill and knowledge as what Mojang is putting out, but Minecraft is a project significantly larger than for example BTW.
You could also argue that even though Mojang is quite a few people they are still just a tiny group compared to the 7 million people owning a copy of Minecraft. It would be bloody unbelievable if not a few thousand of those millions were significantly more skilled than the people at Mojang. And when they make mods they create not only a few new mobs or blocks. They can change the gameplay completely.
How do you compare DayZ with Arma 2? Which one is better? Do you think DayZ should have been coded into Arma 2?
On what do you not agree? How do you think it could be improved?
I see what you mean, but what he's suggesting is to make the current Minecraft even better. It won't give you steps to take or a direction to take, quite the contrary, it will give you a lot more stuff to do and think about while playing. Make the game better in other words, not change what it is, but rather add or change a lot to it, in order to improve this sense of freedom it already has. At least that's how I see it.
Quote my post to bring me back to the topic, in case you answered/talked to me, thank you.
BTW adds far more than "just a few blocks".
this has NOTHING to do with what the OP suggests. He suggests a tutorial for people who never played it before. It's stupid that you need 3rd party sources to figure out how the game works. It doesn't need to hold hands, i hate that in tutorials. But things like crafting recipes? Many of them are only intuitive if you've played the game before...
Sure, there's nearly no limit to the fun you can have creatively in Minecraft. But just being creative for the sake of being creative, isn't really all that special. What is special, to some players, is that the survival aspects of Minecraft, gives you a practical reason to build structures, and to innovate with redstone. These aspects give you a world in which to interact with your artwork. This is what hooked me in from the start. But pretty quickly, the survival/gameplay elements wear thin and there really isn't much left to do beyond being creative, and even that loses a little bit of its magic and purpose.
Also, I'm not real big on multiplayer gaming in general. In Minecraft, I enjoy checking out other peoples creations, and showing off mine, but I don't really care for tagging along with dudes that I don't know, for any other purpose. If I do any multiplay at all, it's strictly local. Anyway, a lot more people play Minecraft in single player survival mode, than a lot of people might think. And if you are one of these people, you would know exactly what's wrong with survival mode. The thing is, the game was more fun at first, when survival seemed to matter.
I don't see why people think we're trying to limit creativity. If anything we're trying to expand on it. Besides, how is ADDING content like new weapons, new mobs, and new movement options "limiting" everything? We're trying to add new and fun mechanics to the game. Not take them away! What we are taking away is a pretty small amount of unnecessary, nonsensical, or just plain stupid mechanics.
(Also, on the off chance that a Mojang employee is reading this, Mod API.)
[Overused Signature Goes Here]
Also, I simply love how you're just... Like... an antitroll if I've ever seen one. You're responding to comments with a cool head, continually point out that you're not saying this MUST happen, only that you believe it SHOULD, and maintain that this is a discussion page. Good job, you're officially one of a rare handful of reasonable opinionated people.
You sir, you are awesome.
Like my ducks?
I think this topic adresses a serious flaw in MC's design.
Why do you say this topic causes damage?