i don't know why this is still discussed ( have not read all 27 pages )
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with correct combination a chest cart will go past the 1 square opening. (or a dispenser will shoot an item there, in this case you can let the dispenser shoot through the bedrock and no opening would be needed what so ever)
you can't reach the cart the cart without the code and there's nothing to break (except the buttons on the outside, and that won't get you anywhere)
You can pour water down the hole, also, no offence, but this seems that this design is almost impossible to expand without redoing it completly.
I don't know why this topic is still being dicussed, if you really want to solve this "unbreakable vault" thing, make an adminium box, make sure somone is inside at all times, or almost all times, and only give /tp powers to mods and admins, or just make a mod/admin only warp inside.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheLoneCreeper »
Secondly: Welcome to the forums; expect creepy people, trolls, and people that whine about updates. In other words: Welcome to a place of pain and suffering. xD
While that is a very good idea, unfortunately, as far as I know it wouldn't work. no two blocks, including transparent blocks like tracks and signs, can occupy the same one block space, so a tunnel at least 1x2 would be needed, voiding the benefit gained from the lava. I haven't been following this thread recently, but it seems that there are a lot of good ideas, but mostly all of them have some issues that aren't apparent at the start. It is, however, a great idea in theory, and if there was not the issue of two objects in the same space, I could definitely see it working.
While that is a very good idea, unfortunately, as far as I know it wouldn't work. no two blocks, including transparent blocks like tracks and signs, can occupy the same one block space, so a tunnel at least 1x2 would be needed, voiding the benefit gained from the lava.
Ok, then.... I'll try to figure something out about that... Thanks!!!
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Edited post: My idea was already fully discussed in this topic
Guys, enough of this. People aren't reading key pieces of information in the thread (granted, it is 27 pages long now), posting the same ridiculously faulty design repeatedly, and still believe that lava is going to help anything.
We really need to move this information somewhere else where it is more organized such as a wiki.
Here's some facts to keep in mind with designs:
1. Entities offer no external protection (yes, cart based vaults have been proven easily breakable)
2. Fluids offer no external protection
3. Mechanics of the vault (entities, redstone, fluids, etc.) must be inside the vault
4. An unbreakable vault must stop boat phasing
Essentially, we must use the limitations from facts 1,2, and 3 in order to solve the boat phasing problem. We can stop phasing into a vault from below by building the vault on top of the void, but this exposes the sides and the top.
Few topics to explore to make progress:
Has anyone seen any sort of downward phasing beyond the sneak glitch (moving downwards from the top of a vault)?
Is it possible to use chunk errors to add additional protection into a vault? This could prevent phasing in from any number of sides of a vault.
The nether might be an acceptable option in the future as Notch is enabling it in SMP in 1.6. Is this something we would want to use as a method entry? If used in conjunction with forced chunk errors (given we can accomplish this), you can trap a vault by surrounding it with permanent chunk errors, leaving the chunk(s) with the vault only accessible via a nether portal. This can prevent phasing from the sides completely, only allowing entrance and exit via the top of the vault.
Ok... i confess i didn't read all the 27 pages, so theres plenty of stuff that i don't know if was already tested or not (like lava walls).
One thing that i was going to ask is what are exactly the circusntances that allow phasing, like:
1- it can always be made upwards? Every design would have to be made on top of the void?
2- it can always be made in a 1x1 tunnel? Filled with water or dry?
3- minecart phasing works if the tracks are already full with other minecarts?
4- do you take any type of damage while phasing? suffocation/burning/drowning etc
5- Generally what are the known limitations of phasing (distance/wall lenght/inclination, etc.etc)
6- What are the known ways to avoid phasing?
7- What is the sneak glitch?
There's not a single post where all of these aspects are put together, and they are essential for new people trying to join the challenge and make their own designs (like me). Other places like mc wiki and youtube have Zero references to phasing.
I guess a good start would be to read all the thread, you would say? I will. But a reference post for that would be good.
I don't even know how minecart phasing is possible! I tried to do that in a 1x1 space and suffocated... like one would expect.
So you cannot boat phase upwards diagonally? - I guess i already knew the answer... you first go horizontal then move upwards, then horizontal, then upwards, ... pretty basic. :sad.gif:
EDIT: I've read the first 10 pages... they gave me a good perspective on the matter... that idea of mine was suggested like a hundred times in this thread (1x1 delivery hole).
question.... the upwards track glitch was already discarded as possibility? (since it requires 1 block of air for each track layer, what would allow up-diagonal phasing)
I assume you cannot use lava to prevent upwards boat phasing? Does it even work against horizontal phasing, or can you phase "into" the wall (instead of right through) and remove any lava/fire via water, bucket, punching or filling it with dirt?
And if you can place vehicles in solid walls, why can you only phase 2 blocks horizontally?
People came to a consensus about building just above the void, so that there would be no way of phasing upwards (so you wouldnt need lava anyway in this case, unless you are talking about phasing already inside the vault, which is the case of my new concept design described below:)
According to answer 6) in Grizdale's post you can use lava in corners to prevent horizontal phasing since you will not be able to reach an adjacent block to remove/replace the lava block. (I guess)
I don't know the cause of the 2 block phasing limit, thats something i was wondering here too.
Since nobody answered my question about the minecart glitch, considering it is still a viable possibility, i think there's a way to unite this glitch with the lava-in-the-corners trick.
Here's it, Ark's concept design nº1:
(white area is filled with bedrock blocks, I just didn't put in there to clean the visual. Every vault wall would be three blocks thick, except for the opening which is two blocks thick)
-You press the right password, the storage minecart will start moving inside the vault
-You press a MAIN LEVER which will and DEACTIVATE the center rail number 2 (causing any minecart to stop in it)
-The minecart will enter the slope being powered by the activated rails number 1s, and will stop in the center (rail nº2), so that you can now exchange the content through the opening.
-When you are satisfied, you press the MAIN LEVER again, which will ACTIVATE center rail number 2, causing the minecart to go up the slope and back to the it's start position (where there will be another powered rail that is activated by the password buttons). EDIT: POSSIBLY THE POWERED RAIL nº 2 WILL HAVE TO BE DOWNWARDS TO GENERATE MOMENTUM.
-Those lava blocks will hopefully prevent anyone trying to phase up or left. IT is perfectly possible to put more lava blocks to prevent phasing right AND down as well. You would end up with somekind of chess kind of look:
(remember every block of lava is sorrounded in every direction by bedrock)
(EDIT: I think this is not just possible, it MUST be done, or else you could phase down-left-down-left until reaching the horizontal track)
seems I wasn't clear on stoping boat phasing if the lava block is the same level as you head or higher its possible to partially phase and take/destroy the lava
only when the lava is the same hight as your legs does it stop boat phasing and at the same time not destroyable
But then if you phase down one more block the lava will be at same level as your head, right?
What would leave the only solution being: every place where there would be a lava block at the same level as the head of the player, must have another lava block simultaneously at the foot level. (it is possible to do that in the concept above)
Have you checked my design above? Do you think it would be possible to boat phase it?
If affirmative, do you have any suggestion that would help?
you could take the lava out on that design... at least I think you can if I am understanding it right.
also you can just set some tnt up in it making it inaccessible to every one. this is because tnt can go through corners
I'm almost finishing the design (test version) made in stone. Then I'll use MCedit to replace stone by bedrock and place the lava in the holes (using the blueprint you can build it with bedrock from the start).... As soon as I finish i'll post here to see if anyone can enter it.
About using the TNT, at most you'll grief the hole where you deposit itens, minecart tracks can be replaced from outside. If you manage to phase a little into the vault and explode one of the tracks through uphill corners, then possibly it can be replaced using the same technique, by the player who owns the vault. Or one server admin can fly into the hole and place the track again in two seconds. (your chest is safe though)
IF you destroy the minecart accidentally when depositing or withdrawing itens, you can place another in the track, and it will work just fine. You would be able to take the content that was left inside and fell on top of the tracks only by phasing two blocks into the hole.
I would build a vault with a 2 blocks strong ceiling. A little area of the ceiling (1x1 blocks) would be only 1 block strong.
Then i would place a chest somewhere with random stuff, where it also has to contain a cart and a rail.
When i would like to enter the vault, i would take the rail and the cart and place the rail on this special area, where the ceiling is only 1 block strong.
Now i would place the cart on the rail, jump into it and destroy it, while i am sitting in it. What would happen is, that a glitch causes me to fall trought the block below me.
This is simple and works fine, but if u dont hide this special ceiling area well, ppl would be able to find it... but it's just an idea.
I don't believe that glitch works in SMP. So... No.
Would it be beneficial if any design incorporated intended boat phasing?
I encourage everyone to download it and try to enter the area where the minecart stay still deep inside the vault.
There's no way i could explain with smilies how the blocks are placed, the best i could do is the image in my other post in this page. If you want you can MCEDIT it and fly into the vault, or do whatever you need, to understand the system.
There's a TXT file in the .rar that you MUST read before you do anything. It explains some basics.
I'll not answer people who clearly didn't read the TXT before asking (questions like "i could just press the withdraw button instead of breaking into the vault?" are laughable).
To consider it cracked, you must use the known phasing methods, in a SMP server. You cannot use the sneak glitch since it does not work in SMP servers. You must reach the minecarts start position.
Post here a small explanation of how you cracked it, and post also SCREENSHOTS or a video if possible, to back it up.
To consider it griefed you must be able to do something inside that is irreversible (like destroying the storage minecart and itens inside it). Destroying rails while phased is not irreversible, since another player can do the same phasing to replace them.
To consider it griefed you must be able to do something inside that is irreversible (like destroying the storage minecart and itens inside it). Destroying rails while phased is not irreversible, since another player can do the same phasing to replace them.
Anywhere that rails can be replaced after destruction is a place which is not a secure area. Also remember that TNT blasts go through corners, making it extremely easy to grief rail-based systems.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hans Lemurson's Thread of Links:http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/371610-hans-lemursons-thread-of-links/
Look here to find links to my inventions, creations, and my Youtube channel featuring Amazing Creations of Mine (Redstone engineering FTW!!!) and charming Music-Videos about clones. I also made "Minecraft in Minecraft" (2D platformer/building game). I'm currently trying to make a computer.
OK.... now i've read the entire thread and tested the latest Grizdale design. I feel so dumb for suggesting the 1x1 hole in my first post here. But i still think that is a viable option (preventing known phase/grief methods)
Quote from Hans Lemurson »
Anywhere that rails can be replaced after destruction is a place which is not a secure area. Also remember that TNT blasts go through corners, making it extremely easy to grief rail-based systems.
I agree with you. My idea was that if you could place TNT and explode the uphill track through the corner, the owner could phase half-block in, and replace the track destroyed. But i just realized that if the owner can replace the uphill track, it means that a griefer could place a second TNT in that very space and explode the track two layers above him (in an unreachable spot). I'll try to figure this out...
IMO the 1x1 hole is not so bad as it seems. It only must prevent boat phasing (using lava), and TNT griefing. I Believe i can abuse the minecart glitch, that when in a curve he phase through one block. One block between rail and hole is enough to avoid TNT.
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I made a Delayer using two dispensers. Very simple but efficient. It uses only two AND gates:
1- If lever-in-wrong-position AND pressure-plate-OFF (no item on it), turn ON Dispenser 1.
2- If lever-in-wrong-position AND 1 second later, pressure plate is still OFF, turn ON Dispenser 2
Number 1 guarantees that the dispenser will only turn ON if there's not already an iten in the pressure plate, this avoids a griefer randomly pressing the levers to empty the dispenser. So one 5 minutes time count will only start when another 5 minutes has passed (the previous item disappeared).
Number 2 happens when Dispenser 1 is empty, using 3 repeaters (set at 10 clicks = 1 sec) to check if the signal was sent to Dispenser 1 but the pressure plate was not activated 1 sec later (meaning it's empty). It must be 10 clicks because it is more than the shooting+falling time of a Dispenser1 item... if it were less, they would both activate.
Using two dispensers, you have 64 x 9 x 2 (stack/slots/dispensers) itens in total, which equals 1152. One item will delay the activation by 5 minutes, so it's 5760 minutes in total, or 96 hours. That's also the amount of time the Delayer would be working without needing a refil (considering the griefer purposely put wrong codes to empty the dispensers).
To me this is by far the best design made... the most advanced one.
I was just entering here to post my sugestion of a 1x1 shaft (to prevent boat placing) when then i tested your 4.1 version and it uses exactly this concept.
the guy that said he managed to enter your 4.1 design never posted screenshots of how did he do it... Have you stopped trying to improve it because of that?
One doubt is how do you exit your vault? Using the logoff-on-top-of-a-repeater trick?
And no matter what i cant enter your vault... in every version of it i have tried the basic principle failed. The minecart simply doesnt stay in the corner so that i can click it. The "silver line" doesnt appear.
In 4.1 the minecart wasnt even carried by the water, it stood still in the first water block... so far away from the corner.
I think it can be related to minecart propulsion, maybe it is going too slow, or the water is not flowing, i'll try to figure it out. Oh, you can also use powered minecarts, they would eliminate those boosters you have there completely, making it more compact.
And I don't see the need to go all the way to the sky limit. AFAIK it's impossible to phase down or glitch yourself down in SMP (how would you get out anyway?).
Right now, aside from my own designs, I'm only trying to figure a way to teleport yourself to the minecart in a way that would be impossible to use a boat.
Theory:
A secure vault needs only 3 things.
(1) Secure input of redstone signal
(2) Secure entry that is only accessible after entering signal
(3) Secure exit
(3) is easiest, only needing to sand yourself.
(1) and (2) have always been the weak points of any design.
My vault:
2xwall at all points except in anti-boat protected areas.
Is either built on top of the void, or with a bedrock base extending to the void to prevent unwanted sanding in.
The button input has 2xwall at feet level, redstone is located below button, behind 2xwall.(I think this is the most secure design).
layer 0: below feet
layer1: feet
layer2: head
layer 0: .... layer1: .... layer2+:
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( is button, is wire)
- - - - -
layer 1: .... layer2: .... layer3+:
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[] | |
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( is cart track)
In layer1 the air could be replaced completely with bedrock, however you would have to TNT out the cart from the end of the tunnel.
Notes:
There are no phase-down glitches in SMP.
All fluids(lava) must always be below head level, or it can be destroyed.
Repeaters can be snuck over, but you cant sand up into a 2x1 hole with a repeater.
Due to minecart phasing, there must be no 1x1 holes into the vault.
Due to boat phasing, all walls must be 2x thick.
I know someone said boats can phase through a 2-think wall, but I have not been able to replicate that.
WE NEED MORE DATA ON EXACTLY WHAT BOAT PHASING CAN AND CANNOT DO.
4 simple steps to build your own unbreakable vault:
(1) Place chest
(2) Disconnect from the internet
(3) ???
(4) Profit
I know this isn't the answer you are looking for. But it works, doesn't require bedrock, and you can still connect to smp (providing the server is on your machine) using localhost and such.
As of right now, (in vanilla) there is no way to build a chest which can be accessed by one person, which is impossible for others to access.
Ok i've checked it. Confirm to me if i'm right:
Your vault uses the principle that when logging in a SMP server it will check if you are in a 2 block high free space, and if not it will change your spawn point up, until it finds that free space, correct?
The TNT blocks the entrance so when you put the correct code it explodes the TNT and frees the space. You ride the minecart into a 1 block space, that is a few blocks below the entering area, with your head inside a bedrock block, you logoff and login, you'll be teleported upwards to the spot where the TNT was before.
Before you leave the vault you put more TNT in the entrance space again, then you sand yourself (placing the block and entering it while it falls) and logoff and login and you'll be on top of the vault. Is that correct?
It looked perfect to me. I just don't understand why the need of a minecart in the entrance if you can just sand yourself like you do to enter the vault. Is that because you don't want to leave a two-block free space under the entrance?
Quote from cookingfat »
I've not read the whole thread yet, but wasn't sure if you are aware that after the 1.5 update, minecarts don't flow in water any more. I think it's a bug and not intentional.
That explains it... now i wonder how could Grizdale solve it in his design.
Quote from AeroMuch »
I has an idea, Havent checked if anyone worked it out but...
-snip-
By extensive testings, people on this thread discarded wooden/iron doors as entrance methods because no matter what you do to try to protect them, there will be always some way to extend your life time, and you can always die and return there to finish the job.
Usually people think of lava, but forgets food and armor (I did the same). Unless the lava is in somewhere unreachable, anyone can clean it with enough protection and respawns.
Anywhere a Pressure Plate is, a lever can replace it. So one single guy could remove those PPs and put levers in their blocks, so no need of a second person to put the code. Also you didn't say how the minecart with the tresure would go to the guy standing in the PPs, and that is basically the main problem right now.
But i believe Blackberry Pie design pretty much nails it.
You can pour water down the hole, also, no offence, but this seems that this design is almost impossible to expand without redoing it completly.
I don't know why this topic is still being dicussed, if you really want to solve this "unbreakable vault" thing, make an adminium box, make sure somone is inside at all times, or almost all times, and only give /tp powers to mods and admins, or just make a mod/admin only warp inside.
Minecarts run in tracks that have signs on it's walls?
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Edited post.... my idea was already fully discussed in this topic
While that is a very good idea, unfortunately, as far as I know it wouldn't work. no two blocks, including transparent blocks like tracks and signs, can occupy the same one block space, so a tunnel at least 1x2 would be needed, voiding the benefit gained from the lava. I haven't been following this thread recently, but it seems that there are a lot of good ideas, but mostly all of them have some issues that aren't apparent at the start. It is, however, a great idea in theory, and if there was not the issue of two objects in the same space, I could definitely see it working.
Ok, then.... I'll try to figure something out about that... Thanks!!!
--------------------------
Edited post: My idea was already fully discussed in this topic
I do maps and stuff.
We really need to move this information somewhere else where it is more organized such as a wiki.
Here's some facts to keep in mind with designs:
1. Entities offer no external protection (yes, cart based vaults have been proven easily breakable)
2. Fluids offer no external protection
3. Mechanics of the vault (entities, redstone, fluids, etc.) must be inside the vault
4. An unbreakable vault must stop boat phasing
Essentially, we must use the limitations from facts 1,2, and 3 in order to solve the boat phasing problem. We can stop phasing into a vault from below by building the vault on top of the void, but this exposes the sides and the top.
Few topics to explore to make progress:
Has anyone seen any sort of downward phasing beyond the sneak glitch (moving downwards from the top of a vault)?
Is it possible to use chunk errors to add additional protection into a vault? This could prevent phasing in from any number of sides of a vault.
The nether might be an acceptable option in the future as Notch is enabling it in SMP in 1.6. Is this something we would want to use as a method entry? If used in conjunction with forced chunk errors (given we can accomplish this), you can trap a vault by surrounding it with permanent chunk errors, leaving the chunk(s) with the vault only accessible via a nether portal. This can prevent phasing from the sides completely, only allowing entrance and exit via the top of the vault.
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Vault stuff here
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^Void^
One thing that i was going to ask is what are exactly the circusntances that allow phasing, like:
1- it can always be made upwards? Every design would have to be made on top of the void?
2- it can always be made in a 1x1 tunnel? Filled with water or dry?
3- minecart phasing works if the tracks are already full with other minecarts?
4- do you take any type of damage while phasing? suffocation/burning/drowning etc
5- Generally what are the known limitations of phasing (distance/wall lenght/inclination, etc.etc)
6- What are the known ways to avoid phasing?
7- What is the sneak glitch?
There's not a single post where all of these aspects are put together, and they are essential for new people trying to join the challenge and make their own designs (like me). Other places like mc wiki and youtube have Zero references to phasing.
I guess a good start would be to read all the thread, you would say? I will. But a reference post for that would be good.
I don't even know how minecart phasing is possible! I tried to do that in a 1x1 space and suffocated... like one would expect.
Thank you very much for answering!! :smile.gif:
So you cannot boat phase upwards diagonally? - I guess i already knew the answer... you first go horizontal then move upwards, then horizontal, then upwards, ... pretty basic. :sad.gif:
EDIT: I've read the first 10 pages... they gave me a good perspective on the matter... that idea of mine was suggested like a hundred times in this thread (1x1 delivery hole).
question.... the upwards track glitch was already discarded as possibility? (since it requires 1 block of air for each track layer, what would allow up-diagonal phasing)
People came to a consensus about building just above the void, so that there would be no way of phasing upwards (so you wouldnt need lava anyway in this case, unless you are talking about phasing already inside the vault, which is the case of my new concept design described below:)
According to answer 6) in Grizdale's post you can use lava in corners to prevent horizontal phasing since you will not be able to reach an adjacent block to remove/replace the lava block. (I guess)
I don't know the cause of the 2 block phasing limit, thats something i was wondering here too.
Since nobody answered my question about the minecart glitch, considering it is still a viable possibility, i think there's a way to unite this glitch with the lava-in-the-corners trick.
Here's it, Ark's concept design nº1:
(white area is filled with bedrock blocks, I just didn't put in there to clean the visual. Every vault wall would be three blocks thick, except for the opening which is two blocks thick)
-You press the right password, the storage minecart will start moving inside the vault
-You press a MAIN LEVER which will and DEACTIVATE the center rail number 2 (causing any minecart to stop in it)
-The minecart will enter the slope being powered by the activated rails number 1s, and will stop in the center (rail nº2), so that you can now exchange the content through the opening.
-When you are satisfied, you press the MAIN LEVER again, which will ACTIVATE center rail number 2, causing the minecart to go up the slope and back to the it's start position (where there will be another powered rail that is activated by the password buttons). EDIT: POSSIBLY THE POWERED RAIL nº 2 WILL HAVE TO BE DOWNWARDS TO GENERATE MOMENTUM.
-Those lava blocks will hopefully prevent anyone trying to phase up or left. IT is perfectly possible to put more lava blocks to prevent phasing right AND down as well. You would end up with somekind of chess kind of look:
(remember every block of lava is sorrounded in every direction by bedrock)
(EDIT: I think this is not just possible, it MUST be done, or else you could phase down-left-down-left until reaching the horizontal track)
So....Would it work?
But then if you phase down one more block the lava will be at same level as your head, right?
What would leave the only solution being: every place where there would be a lava block at the same level as the head of the player, must have another lava block simultaneously at the foot level. (it is possible to do that in the concept above)
Have you checked my design above? Do you think it would be possible to boat phase it?
If affirmative, do you have any suggestion that would help?
I'm almost finishing the design (test version) made in stone. Then I'll use MCedit to replace stone by bedrock and place the lava in the holes (using the blueprint you can build it with bedrock from the start).... As soon as I finish i'll post here to see if anyone can enter it.
About using the TNT, at most you'll grief the hole where you deposit itens, minecart tracks can be replaced from outside. If you manage to phase a little into the vault and explode one of the tracks through uphill corners, then possibly it can be replaced using the same technique, by the player who owns the vault. Or one server admin can fly into the hole and place the track again in two seconds. (your chest is safe though)
IF you destroy the minecart accidentally when depositing or withdrawing itens, you can place another in the track, and it will work just fine. You would be able to take the content that was left inside and fell on top of the tracks only by phasing two blocks into the hole.
I don't believe that glitch works in SMP. So... No.
Would it be beneficial if any design incorporated intended boat phasing?
Youtube: http://www.Youtube.com/MinecraftingStuff
My Current projects:
- New Repeater Quark, used for a variety of applications! You will learn something!
- Which pickaxe is the best?
- Tree Farm Innovations!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26445640/mine/V ... ALLAST.rar
I encourage everyone to download it and try to enter the area where the minecart stay still deep inside the vault.
There's no way i could explain with smilies how the blocks are placed, the best i could do is the image in my other post in this page. If you want you can MCEDIT it and fly into the vault, or do whatever you need, to understand the system.
There's a TXT file in the .rar that you MUST read before you do anything. It explains some basics.
I'll not answer people who clearly didn't read the TXT before asking (questions like "i could just press the withdraw button instead of breaking into the vault?" are laughable).
To consider it cracked, you must use the known phasing methods, in a SMP server. You cannot use the sneak glitch since it does not work in SMP servers. You must reach the minecarts start position.
Post here a small explanation of how you cracked it, and post also SCREENSHOTS or a video if possible, to back it up.
To consider it griefed you must be able to do something inside that is irreversible (like destroying the storage minecart and itens inside it). Destroying rails while phased is not irreversible, since another player can do the same phasing to replace them.
Regards
Ark
Anywhere that rails can be replaced after destruction is a place which is not a secure area. Also remember that TNT blasts go through corners, making it extremely easy to grief rail-based systems.
Look here to find links to my inventions, creations, and my Youtube channel featuring Amazing Creations of Mine (Redstone engineering FTW!!!) and charming Music-Videos about clones. I also made "Minecraft in Minecraft" (2D platformer/building game). I'm currently trying to make a computer.
I agree with you. My idea was that if you could place TNT and explode the uphill track through the corner, the owner could phase half-block in, and replace the track destroyed. But i just realized that if the owner can replace the uphill track, it means that a griefer could place a second TNT in that very space and explode the track two layers above him (in an unreachable spot). I'll try to figure this out...
IMO the 1x1 hole is not so bad as it seems. It only must prevent boat phasing (using lava), and TNT griefing. I Believe i can abuse the minecart glitch, that when in a curve he phase through one block. One block between rail and hole is enough to avoid TNT.
-------------------------
I made a Delayer using two dispensers. Very simple but efficient. It uses only two AND gates:
1- If lever-in-wrong-position AND pressure-plate-OFF (no item on it), turn ON Dispenser 1.
2- If lever-in-wrong-position AND 1 second later, pressure plate is still OFF, turn ON Dispenser 2
Number 1 guarantees that the dispenser will only turn ON if there's not already an iten in the pressure plate, this avoids a griefer randomly pressing the levers to empty the dispenser. So one 5 minutes time count will only start when another 5 minutes has passed (the previous item disappeared).
Number 2 happens when Dispenser 1 is empty, using 3 repeaters (set at 10 clicks = 1 sec) to check if the signal was sent to Dispenser 1 but the pressure plate was not activated 1 sec later (meaning it's empty). It must be 10 clicks because it is more than the shooting+falling time of a Dispenser1 item... if it were less, they would both activate.
Using two dispensers, you have 64 x 9 x 2 (stack/slots/dispensers) itens in total, which equals 1152. One item will delay the activation by 5 minutes, so it's 5760 minutes in total, or 96 hours. That's also the amount of time the Delayer would be working without needing a refil (considering the griefer purposely put wrong codes to empty the dispensers).
Here's one triple screenshot of it, I'll post it later together with my other design:
http://tinypic.com/r/21dnz46/7
I believe it's possible to compact it... i'm just not that expert with redstone to do it.
To me this is by far the best design made... the most advanced one.
I was just entering here to post my sugestion of a 1x1 shaft (to prevent boat placing) when then i tested your 4.1 version and it uses exactly this concept.
the guy that said he managed to enter your 4.1 design never posted screenshots of how did he do it... Have you stopped trying to improve it because of that?
One doubt is how do you exit your vault? Using the logoff-on-top-of-a-repeater trick?
And no matter what i cant enter your vault... in every version of it i have tried the basic principle failed. The minecart simply doesnt stay in the corner so that i can click it. The "silver line" doesnt appear.
In 4.1 the minecart wasnt even carried by the water, it stood still in the first water block... so far away from the corner.
I think it can be related to minecart propulsion, maybe it is going too slow, or the water is not flowing, i'll try to figure it out. Oh, you can also use powered minecarts, they would eliminate those boosters you have there completely, making it more compact.
And I don't see the need to go all the way to the sky limit. AFAIK it's impossible to phase down or glitch yourself down in SMP (how would you get out anyway?).
Right now, aside from my own designs, I'm only trying to figure a way to teleport yourself to the minecart in a way that would be impossible to use a boat.
Schematic for MCEdit users (http://www.mediafire.com/?i5u99j8uw0a81hr)
It uses a modified version of zomb13's "sand yourself in".
Note: glowstone and glass is ONLY SO YOU CAN SEE HOW IT WORKS(pretend it is bedrock).
Theory:
A secure vault needs only 3 things.
(1) Secure input of redstone signal
(2) Secure entry that is only accessible after entering signal
(3) Secure exit
(3) is easiest, only needing to sand yourself.
(1) and (2) have always been the weak points of any design.
My vault:
2xwall at all points except in anti-boat protected areas.
Is either built on top of the void, or with a bedrock base extending to the void to prevent unwanted sanding in.
The button input has 2xwall at feet level, redstone is located below button, behind 2xwall.(I think this is the most secure design).
layer 0: below feet
layer1: feet
layer2: head
layer 0: .... layer1: .... layer2+:
| |
| |
| |
|
( is button, is wire)
- - - - -
layer 1: .... layer2: .... layer3+:
| |
| |
[] | |
| [] |
| [] |
( is cart track)
In layer1 the air could be replaced completely with bedrock, however you would have to TNT out the cart from the end of the tunnel.
Notes:
There are no phase-down glitches in SMP.
All fluids(lava) must always be below head level, or it can be destroyed.
Repeaters can be snuck over, but you cant sand up into a 2x1 hole with a repeater.
Due to minecart phasing, there must be no 1x1 holes into the vault.
Due to boat phasing, all walls must be 2x thick.
I know someone said boats can phase through a 2-think wall, but I have not been able to replicate that.
WE NEED MORE DATA ON EXACTLY WHAT BOAT PHASING CAN AND CANNOT DO.
edit: layer errors fixed
Hey buddy I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems.
Author of the Infused Creatures addon for Thaumcraft.
(1) Place chest
(2) Disconnect from the internet
(3) ???
(4) Profit
I know this isn't the answer you are looking for. But it works, doesn't require bedrock, and you can still connect to smp (providing the server is on your machine) using localhost and such.
As of right now, (in vanilla) there is no way to build a chest which can be accessed by one person, which is impossible for others to access.
Ok i've checked it. Confirm to me if i'm right:
Your vault uses the principle that when logging in a SMP server it will check if you are in a 2 block high free space, and if not it will change your spawn point up, until it finds that free space, correct?
The TNT blocks the entrance so when you put the correct code it explodes the TNT and frees the space. You ride the minecart into a 1 block space, that is a few blocks below the entering area, with your head inside a bedrock block, you logoff and login, you'll be teleported upwards to the spot where the TNT was before.
Before you leave the vault you put more TNT in the entrance space again, then you sand yourself (placing the block and entering it while it falls) and logoff and login and you'll be on top of the vault. Is that correct?
It looked perfect to me. I just don't understand why the need of a minecart in the entrance if you can just sand yourself like you do to enter the vault. Is that because you don't want to leave a two-block free space under the entrance?
That explains it... now i wonder how could Grizdale solve it in his design.
By extensive testings, people on this thread discarded wooden/iron doors as entrance methods because no matter what you do to try to protect them, there will be always some way to extend your life time, and you can always die and return there to finish the job.
Usually people think of lava, but forgets food and armor (I did the same). Unless the lava is in somewhere unreachable, anyone can clean it with enough protection and respawns.
Anywhere a Pressure Plate is, a lever can replace it. So one single guy could remove those PPs and put levers in their blocks, so no need of a second person to put the code. Also you didn't say how the minecart with the tresure would go to the guy standing in the PPs, and that is basically the main problem right now.
But i believe Blackberry Pie design pretty much nails it.