Wait... so you can use bedrock? What's the point than if you don't do it legit...
The point is to give un-modded servers a way to give certain users some kind of a secure area, using nothing but minecraft engineering ingenuity. :smile.gif:
Quote from rodabon »
The minecart track idea is a pretty good idea. I'm thinking to make it more secure it should take two people to operate the mechanism that gains access. One person at a remote station and the person actually entering. For example, the person entering rides a cart into a security antechamber to the vault where he has to punch in the code. The second person is in a security room where a redstone torch lights up indicating a code has been punched in and they enter a second code to complete the access sequence.
I'm also thinking the vault needs to be fairly large so that someone with xray mods can only observe from a good distance away making it hard to see the code sequences.
*edit*
I'm thinking make the minecart travel through a long enough 1X1 tunnel that someone will surivive, but have a dispenser that pops an item out on the track if they enter the sequence wrong. Then they smother if they stay in the cart or even better if they get out it pops them into a bedrock holding cell with no way out where they can just rot unless they have a way to kill themselves
reallllllllly good point about the xray users, I had not thought about that!
I'll think a bit on how to foil them....
Wouldn't an item popped out on the track from a dispenser just get picked up by the player before the minecart hit it?
Quote from Aarow »
Quote from spectrrr »
Quote from Aarow »
Easy. Make it out of TNT and have it all explode if you break down the door. Add a red stone lock and boom. Done.
Quote from spectrrr »
RULES:
6) You can assume the attacker has plenty of lives to spare (in other words, one time use dynamite mines won’t cut it)
:wink.gif: :wink.gif: :wink.gif:
Ouch. Sorry. But I kind of meant like "If you bust in here, you will never get the treasure, cause it will be cinders." When you think about it, that's the only way to build a truly "Unbreakable Treasure vault."
LOL! good point there!!
although I can envision that being a griefer's heaven! *player A breaks in vault*
*vault blows up*
*player B screams and ragequits*
mmk, i'm done checking the thread till tonight, LOTS of great ideas getting thrown around!
The C-booster 'teleport' effect would be great for getting into a structure with absolutely no opening, but I don't know of any way to turn it on and off...
OK, I know i said i was done till later... but i had an idea :smile.gif:
I redesigned the lava incinerator to go UP rather than down. This eliminated the 2 block high air gaps in the previous design.... BUT since its not gravity fed and the carts have to go up a hill, it introduces the possibility that the system could get jammed.
What do you guys think?
(dirt and sign are for photo cutaway only, it would obviously be encased on that side too.)
Quote from GosHawk »
The C-booster 'teleport' effect would be great for getting into a structure with absolutely no opening, but I don't know of any way to turn it on and off...
Getting out after you tele in is actually REALLY easy, using the same design as above but without the lava (and more room to breath).
Just use Bedrock. You cant break it, and if you enclose the redstone all you would need is a simple combo lock and no one could get it short of brute force guessing the combo.
If haveing a huge combo is to annoying or you dont want people guessing it you will need some form of teleport method either with a mod or maybe the Nether but of course thats not truly safe.
Ok, so I'm here at your vault. There's a huge sequence of redstone wiring enclosed by bedrock that can only open the door if the switches are in the correct sequence. Or, I could equip my trusty diamond pickaxe, take a few seconds to break the door, walk in, and steal all the loot.
Based on your parameters, I'm not sure that it's 100% possible to build a design that can't be broken into. But I think your design is the right idea - make a cart track that only leads to the vault if you have the right combo, and kills anyone who does it wrong.
Quote from rodabon »
*edit*
I'm thinking make the minecart travel through a long enough 1X1 tunnel that someone will surivive, but have a dispenser that pops an item out on the track if they enter the sequence wrong. Then they smother if they stay in the cart or even better if they get out it pops them into a bedrock holding cell with no way out where they can just rot unless they have a way to kill themselves
I really like this idea. Granted, enough trial and error will eventually allow the user to make it in, but it's simple and to the point - and if you have a massive combination (Something you have to write down due to length is ideal) it's virtually impossible to have it broken into. So long as everything's in bedrock, nobody can cheat their way through by breaking it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The war...has begun."
Want to know more? Check out the beginnings of my novel, Chronicles of Light, at Figment.com. Latest update: Chapter 1: Life of a Thief.
Why has nobody thought of something so simple: Obsidian surrounded by a layer or two of water, then another layer of obsidian, all underwater, and only accessible from the bottom.
Think about it. If the thief can't find the source or drain quite literally everything, they're forced to try and dig through while underwater. Even if they have a diamond pick, being underwater will drag out that time immensely, meaning that a would-be thief would likely drown before they break even a single block.
Another advantage here is that any break-in attempt will not be very subtle at all, as a thief would be forced to drain a considerable portion of the surrounding water to be able to break just the outer wall without suffocating.
Your gonna have to be carful and make it VERY cramped. With enough trial and error, people can use nether portals to teleport INSIDE the vault. Portals can't spawn in a small enough space, so you'll need to make sure the vault doesn't have any large rooms.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
LOGIC BE DUH EXPLOIT OF LIFE!!! U MUST DO AS ME SAYZ!!
I would lean toward a vault that the player never enters at all. Entering your redstone combination code would activate a minecart storage system to retrieve your storage cart and bring it to a 1x1 hole in the bedrock vault wall, where you can add / remove stuff.
Have a pressure plate next to the hole which you must be standing on in order for the cart to come (add a timer to the combination lock so that you must step on the plate within a certain time after entering your code or the system resets and you have to enter the code again).
The point of this thread (as I take it) is to find an unbeatable door mechanism. Assume would-be thieves aren't going to play nice.
I've been looking at a mechanism that sends a minecart past a 1x1 hole in the bedrock, using lava to prevent sneaking through in a boat. It's promising, but I'm not totally convinced it can't be beaten with some water-based shenanigans.
there is no door.
you use obsidian portals
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Moxz »
the only time i get angry is when i have to deal with ****ing retards
Your gonna have to be carful and make it VERY cramped. With enough trial and error, people can use nether portals to teleport INSIDE the vault. Portals can't spawn in a small enough space, so you'll need to make sure the vault doesn't have any large rooms.
That's solved easily enough. Before constructing your vault, build a portal where you plan to construct it, go through it to the Nether, and fill every block of Nether within a decent radius of where you emerge with bedrock.
i don't think there are many ways to do this, i'd say use the spawn protection to your advantage, and make a room of anything really, and put some chests inside, with a button to open an iron door, this will stop people from getting inside because you're unable to edit the button with a click, or mine the door/walls as everything is under spawn protection, so only mods will be able to get inside
I built a working prototype of my design. Here's the concept: The entrance is a 1x1 hole with a curtain of lava behind it and no surface to place blocks in range. interestingly, water doesn't seem to affect falling lava, so I believe there's no way to displace the lava and sneak through in a boat. 'When you enter the combination, a door releases a minecart which is boosted up a ramp and dropped past the hole. To get in, you spam right click, catch the cart, and teleport through the lava. If you miss, the cart is relaunched. Pics (sorry for the poor angles. Turns out this thing isn't easy to photograph):
top:
side:
This is more or less what the entrance will look like:
If they dont try to solve the combination lock, they will need to break the door. If they do so, the lava will fall down.
Problem? Yes - they can just block the hole :sad.gif:
[] []
[] []
[] []
They remove the sand, and lava will flow somewhere and kill them.. Problem yes - you can just block the lava.. Maybe a combination with a falling floor will help, because it will make something flow = destroy torches underneath gravel/sand.
Why has nobody thought of something so simple: Obsidian surrounded by a layer or two of water, then another layer of obsidian, all underwater, and only accessible from the bottom.
Think about it. If the thief can't find the source or drain quite literally everything, they're forced to try and dig through while underwater. Even if they have a diamond pick, being underwater will drag out that time immensely, meaning that a would-be thief would likely drown before they break even a single block.
Another advantage here is that any break-in attempt will not be very subtle at all, as a thief would be forced to drain a considerable portion of the surrounding water to be able to break just the outer wall without suffocating.
That won't work because it's easy to make a small (and subtle) air pocket to work in.
I would lean toward a vault that the player never enters at all. Entering your redstone combination code would activate a minecart storage system to retrieve your storage cart and bring it to a 1x1 hole in the bedrock vault wall, where you can add / remove stuff.
Have a pressure plate next to the hole which you must be standing on in order for the cart to come (add a timer to the combination lock so that you must step on the plate within a certain time after entering your code or the system resets and you have to enter the code again).
I think this is the right idea. Back before dispensers I used to see people making complex cart systems that were basically push an empty card into a hole, it started a booster reaction that eventually spit out a storage cart. Get your storage cart materials then push it back and the reaction started over again and it spit out the original empty cart. So if you encase the entire booster mechanism with bedrock other than 1x1 holes for cart access nobody could get in to grief it. After that I'm sure you could design in a lock mechanism such that the track lead into to lava or something (if you're snotty maybe to another mechanism that spits their cart back out at them or something) if the combo wasn't right and started the booster reaction when it was. A sufficiently long combo would assure nobody accidentally stumbles upon the correct one.
The only trouble I see is griefing the track area that you can reach and any of the levers needed for the combo. But the levers you run the risk of griefing regardless of the type of vault if you want what that works with a combo lock and the tracks could only be griefed as far as one could reach in a 1x1 hole (2 or 3 tracks? I'd have to try it). Either way anything they can reach to destroy, you can reach to replace. Stolen mine carts could be an issue too, but still they are replaceable. Granted it would be annoying having to replace tracks and such, but there is no way to permanently damage the vault or ever give them access to the items without knowing the combination.
Just use Bedrock. You cant break it, and if you enclose the redstone all you would need is a simple combo lock and no one could get it short of brute force guessing the combo.
If haveing a huge combo is to annoying or you dont want people guessing it you will need some form of teleport method either with a mod or maybe the Nether but of course thats not truly safe.
Someone could still break the door. you'd need a very complex mechanism that makes tnt explode and lava fall when you do it, but you'd still need to be sure that that it's gonna kill the attacker
I built a working prototype of my design. Here's the concept: The entrance is a 1x1 hole with a curtain of lava behind it and no surface to place blocks in range. interestingly, water doesn't seem to affect falling lava, so I believe there's no way to displace the lava and sneak through in a boat. 'When you enter the combination, a door releases a minecart which is boosted up a ramp and dropped past the hole. To get in, you spam right click, catch the cart, and teleport through the lava. If you miss, the cart is relaunched. Pics (sorry for the poor angles. Turns out this thing isn't easy to photograph):
top:
side:
This is more or less what the entrance will look like:
I spent a couple days testing and trying to refine a design like that. You can improve the cart tele mechanism by having the switch active 3-4 carts which get sent down one after another and end up creating a stack. saves you from having to spam click and hope you catch it on the way by. (carts will stack if they land on a door further down, below where the player can see)
fundamental flaw that I ended up not being able to overcome was this:
YES you CAN sneak a boat through, even a lava curtain.
so if you're SIDE view looks like this: ( = minecart)
[]
[] [] []
[] []
all an attacker has to do is this: ( = boat)
[]
[] []
[]
Place the dirt (can't put a boat on the block next to the lava), put the boat on the dirt block, get in, place a bucket of water anywhere indicated, and enjoy the ride. Without armor you usually survive, with something like iron armor I never died once.
The same thing could also be done with a minecart to go flying through the hole. I played with placing Bedrock around the opening and was able to keep a user from having enough space to minecart in.... but the boat still worked.
I also played with very THICK lava curtain and offset minecart, and I could STILL swim through the lava, get into an air pocket, and start building out from there.
Here's an approximation of what my TOP view looked like: ( = stacked minecarts on a door) []
(and on a side note, it was pretty damned badass to tele into a flaming minecart surrounded by pillars of lava.... and even more so when I rode a wooden boat through a lava fall!)
It would be awesome if you could figure out some way to stop me from boating in.... God knows I tried!
@spectrrr: Curses, you're right! I found a solution, sort of. If you place a ladder next to the entrance on the back side of the wall, it appears the boat can't get through. Problem is, you can knock out the ladder. But there's a glitch in some worlds (including mine) where blocks are totally unminable on a particular vertical plane. You could theoretically use that glitch to protect the ladder. Not really satisfying, I know. I'll be looking for something better.
( being a iron door.)
Use a redstone mechanism to make the sand fall once thief steps on the pressure plate where he thought the chest would be.
While in the ground BELOW that...
Theif has been pwnt, your treasure will be lost FOREVAH. And if found they will have to spend either 15-50 secs slashing and hacking at obsidian.When you want your treasure, just get your diamond pick(thieves want your treasure, right? Then there ought to be some diamond in der.) and break the obsidian.
Lol, I don't really have to worry about this in my server. There, if you grief or steal, instaban. They can tell its YOU because they have Big brother, a mod used to find out who stole or grieved.
The point is to give un-modded servers a way to give certain users some kind of a secure area, using nothing but minecraft engineering ingenuity. :smile.gif:
reallllllllly good point about the xray users, I had not thought about that!
I'll think a bit on how to foil them....
Wouldn't an item popped out on the track from a dispenser just get picked up by the player before the minecart hit it?
LOL! good point there!!
although I can envision that being a griefer's heaven!
*player A breaks in vault*
*vault blows up*
*player B screams and ragequits*
mmk, i'm done checking the thread till tonight, LOTS of great ideas getting thrown around!
I redesigned the lava incinerator to go UP rather than down. This eliminated the 2 block high air gaps in the previous design.... BUT since its not gravity fed and the carts have to go up a hill, it introduces the possibility that the system could get jammed.
What do you guys think?
(dirt and sign are for photo cutaway only, it would obviously be encased on that side too.)
Getting out after you tele in is actually REALLY easy, using the same design as above but without the lava (and more room to breath).
Ok, so I'm here at your vault. There's a huge sequence of redstone wiring enclosed by bedrock that can only open the door if the switches are in the correct sequence. Or, I could equip my trusty diamond pickaxe, take a few seconds to break the door, walk in, and steal all the loot.
Based on your parameters, I'm not sure that it's 100% possible to build a design that can't be broken into. But I think your design is the right idea - make a cart track that only leads to the vault if you have the right combo, and kills anyone who does it wrong.
I really like this idea. Granted, enough trial and error will eventually allow the user to make it in, but it's simple and to the point - and if you have a massive combination (Something you have to write down due to length is ideal) it's virtually impossible to have it broken into. So long as everything's in bedrock, nobody can cheat their way through by breaking it.
Want to know more? Check out the beginnings of my novel, Chronicles of Light, at Figment.com. Latest update: Chapter 1: Life of a Thief.
Think about it. If the thief can't find the source or drain quite literally everything, they're forced to try and dig through while underwater. Even if they have a diamond pick, being underwater will drag out that time immensely, meaning that a would-be thief would likely drown before they break even a single block.
Another advantage here is that any break-in attempt will not be very subtle at all, as a thief would be forced to drain a considerable portion of the surrounding water to be able to break just the outer wall without suffocating.
Problem?
Have a pressure plate next to the hole which you must be standing on in order for the cart to come (add a timer to the combination lock so that you must step on the plate within a certain time after entering your code or the system resets and you have to enter the code again).
there is no door.
you use obsidian portals
IGN: Biscot
https://www.twitch.tv/moxz - Various games.
That's solved easily enough. Before constructing your vault, build a portal where you plan to construct it, go through it to the Nether, and fill every block of Nether within a decent radius of where you emerge with bedrock.
top:
side:
This is more or less what the entrance will look like:
[]
[]
If they dont try to solve the combination lock, they will need to break the door. If they do so, the lava will fall down.
Problem? Yes - they can just block the hole :sad.gif:
[]
[]
[]
They remove the sand, and lava will flow somewhere and kill them.. Problem yes - you can just block the lava.. Maybe a combination with a falling floor will help, because it will make something flow = destroy torches underneath gravel/sand.
Most secure:
They wont find it ^^
That won't work because it's easy to make a small (and subtle) air pocket to work in.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
I think this is the right idea. Back before dispensers I used to see people making complex cart systems that were basically push an empty card into a hole, it started a booster reaction that eventually spit out a storage cart. Get your storage cart materials then push it back and the reaction started over again and it spit out the original empty cart. So if you encase the entire booster mechanism with bedrock other than 1x1 holes for cart access nobody could get in to grief it. After that I'm sure you could design in a lock mechanism such that the track lead into to lava or something (if you're snotty maybe to another mechanism that spits their cart back out at them or something) if the combo wasn't right and started the booster reaction when it was. A sufficiently long combo would assure nobody accidentally stumbles upon the correct one.
The only trouble I see is griefing the track area that you can reach and any of the levers needed for the combo. But the levers you run the risk of griefing regardless of the type of vault if you want what that works with a combo lock and the tracks could only be griefed as far as one could reach in a 1x1 hole (2 or 3 tracks? I'd have to try it). Either way anything they can reach to destroy, you can reach to replace. Stolen mine carts could be an issue too, but still they are replaceable. Granted it would be annoying having to replace tracks and such, but there is no way to permanently damage the vault or ever give them access to the items without knowing the combination.
Someone could still break the door. you'd need a very complex mechanism that makes tnt explode and lava fall when you do it, but you'd still need to be sure that that it's gonna kill the attacker
I spent a couple days testing and trying to refine a design like that. You can improve the cart tele mechanism by having the switch active 3-4 carts which get sent down one after another and end up creating a stack. saves you from having to spam click and hope you catch it on the way by. (carts will stack if they land on a door further down, below where the player can see)
fundamental flaw that I ended up not being able to overcome was this:
YES you CAN sneak a boat through, even a lava curtain.
so if you're SIDE view looks like this: (
[]
[]
[]
all an attacker has to do is this: (
[]
[]
[]
Place the dirt (can't put a boat on the block next to the lava), put the boat on the dirt block, get in, place a bucket of water anywhere indicated, and enjoy the ride. Without armor you usually survive, with something like iron armor I never died once.
The same thing could also be done with a minecart to go flying through the hole. I played with placing Bedrock around the opening and was able to keep a user from having enough space to minecart in.... but the boat still worked.
I also played with very THICK lava curtain and offset minecart, and I could STILL swim through the lava, get into an air pocket, and start building out from there.
Here's an approximation of what my TOP view looked like: (
(and on a side note, it was pretty damned badass to tele into a flaming minecart surrounded by pillars of lava.... and even more so when I rode a wooden boat through a lava fall!)
It would be awesome if you could figure out some way to stop me from boating in.... God knows I tried!
(
Use a redstone mechanism to make the sand fall once thief steps on the pressure plate where he thought the chest would be.
While in the ground BELOW that...
Theif has been pwnt, your treasure will be lost FOREVAH. And if found they will have to spend either 15-50 secs slashing and hacking at obsidian.When you want your treasure, just get your diamond pick(thieves want your treasure, right? Then there ought to be some diamond in der.) and break the obsidian.
Lol, I don't really have to worry about this in my server. There, if you grief or steal, instaban. They can tell its YOU because they have Big brother, a mod used to find out who stole or grieved.
You you yoooouuuu!!!!! Yes, you!!! You are freaking awshome!!! Yeshyou are! Yoooouuuuu are awshomez!
<-outside
needs to go till heaven so people can not climb up