You new design is better, but it's still beatable by glitched minecarts. I probably ought to have explained. First, build a circle of track with four pieces. place 3 carts in the circle. They should boost each other around the track and then "merge." At this point, if you let them off the track, they'll just keep going.
I can use this glitch to break into your vault by knocking out the curved tracks that trap intruders with water, then riding the glitched carts over the bare bedrock.
@Fase: It was fake. Spectrrr quoted the relevant evidence a few pages back.
Edit:
Also, has anyone broken through my boat phase door? I didn't want to oversell it, but I believe it's totally impenetrable and by far the most griefer-resistant of all current designs.
I don't know If this was mentioned, but the solution is simple really: Create a complex passcode lock that, when activated, Dosnt open doors, but instead sends a minecart/boat infront of a 1x1 hole so you can phase through. But resets it self when you leave. *will make working prototype*
Jumbify
Hey Jumbify, welcome to the conversation.
There have been various 1x1 hole designs created, some with a lava curtain you tele through, some where you just click a chest cart as it flies by, etc... but every single one of em suffers from the fundamental flaw that you can get through that 1x1 hole with either a boat, a minecart, or both. NO method of protection has yet been invented to guard this hole. If you want to read more on how it works and why this design branch of the project has been somewhat abandoned, you can start reading the back threads here: viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=240778&start=150#p3472443
I get the idea i'ts time to update the OP with a listing of the designs that DON'T work and why.... I'll try to get to that tonight.
You new design is better, but it's still beatable by glitched minecarts. I probably ought to have explained. First, build a circle of track with four pieces. place 3 carts in the circle. They should boost each other around the track and then "merge." At this point, if you let them off the track, they'll just keep going.
I can use this glitch to break into your vault by knocking out the curved tracks that trap intruders with water, then riding the glitched carts over the bare bedrock.
Could you stop that method of breaking in by placing a rise at the end of the passage? Then the coupled carts wouldn't be able to go any further.
You new design is better, but it's still beatable by glitched minecarts. I probably ought to have explained. First, build a circle of track with four pieces. place 3 carts in the circle. They should boost each other around the track and then "merge." At this point, if you let them off the track, they'll just keep going.
I can use this glitch to break into your vault by knocking out the curved tracks that trap intruders with water, then riding the glitched carts over the bare bedrock.
Could you stop that method of breaking in by placing a rise at the end of the passage? Then the coupled carts wouldn't be able to go any further.
Ive been following this with some interest. Time to comment.
The glitched cart method here is certainly feasible. but as stated why can't you design an antechamber out of bedrock that has no places for a 4x4 circle of carts? If you made a tunnel to it long enough then even the momentum of the cart wouldnt carry through.
It be a pain in the butt to get down to, but the more secure you make something, the harder it is for the real people to get in as well.
Easy. Make it out of TNT and have it all explode if you break down the door. Add a red stone lock and boom. Done.
Quote from spectrrr »
RULES:
6) You can assume the attacker has plenty of lives to spare (in other words, one time use dynamite mines won’t cut it)
:wink.gif: :wink.gif: :wink.gif:
Ouch. Sorry. But I kind of meant like "If you bust in here, you will never get the treasure, cause it will be cinders." When you think about it, that's the only way to build a truly "Unbreakable Treasure vault."
dude , I would just cover the whole thing in water and be safe.... you know that would make the tnt not damage any blocks?
I believe the carts actually continue to build momentum as they go, so long tunnels probably aren't the solution, but I suppose a tiny antechamber accessed by a vertical shaft from below would work. No amount of momentum will make minecarts levitate. You'd have to be careful with interior boosters, though, since they tend to create 2x2 spaces.
you are absolutely correct........ or are you? I kind of see this like the theory of evolution. We've been told it's true for so long that we have begun to assume a THEORY is indeed a FACT.
With that example, you're forgetting that scientific theories are different from theories in our daily life, gravity is still a theory and I'm fairly sure we know that's real, for example.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Notch on his twitter: "bugs that feel wrong get fixed"
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
you are absolutely correct........ or are you? I kind of see this like the theory of evolution. We've been told it's true for so long that we have begun to assume a THEORY is indeed a FACT.
With that example, you're forgetting that scientific theories are different from theories in our daily life, gravity is still a theory and I'm fairly sure we know that's real, for example.
ahh that's true, gravity is only a theory, which we certainly know is real and exists. (hadn't thought about that in my hasty reply)
But to try and take your example a step further, we know gravity exists and we can measure certain elements of its affects on the universe around us, however we are continuously improving and revising our knowledge and theories of it. Newton's works were pretty accurate, but ultimately superseded by even more complete and accurate information from Einstein, which more than likely will one day be superseded by (or simply unified/made compatible with) one of the quantum theories of gravity, as our knowledge of quantum mechanics slowly expands and grows.
The point in it all, it's just a theory that any vault with an entrance way of any kind must be eventually accessible without a code. I believe that the the game has so many glitches that it is VERY possible there exists a successful combination of shielded materials and mechanism that could produce the desired effect of creating a vault which cannot physically be broken into without knowing or guessing the correct lock combination.
Just like the theory of solids was shattered and then updated when the first brave user got in a boat and walked through a solid wall... then it became "solid, except under X circumstances." Or in the case of a vault, "open, except under X circumstances."
It is just a matter of systematically exploring and understanding more and more about each of the glitches and techniques available, until finally we understand enough of the picture that we can put the pieces together in the right order and create a new theory of vault security :smile.gif:
In other news, that little thing called RL struck tonight. I was not able to get to any of the promised vault tests. Sorry, I'll try to get to em tomorrow night.
How's this for a plan (fell for something similar on a friends server!):
Chest at the end of a 2*1 corridor (wide enough to walk down but too narrow to move) built of bedrock with block of dirt above
The dirt block hides a dispensor full of arrows triggered by the removal of a redstone torch on the side of the dirt block. A NOT/AND combination of logic means that if the correct code is entered at the start of the tunnel, the dispensor is disabled...
Obviously the corridor would have to be a decent length to prevent triggering and running away!
As I say, I'm new to all this, but thought it might work?
The thief couldn't care less, since he's wearing diamond armour and probably has a stash of food in his hotbar. He's also probably quick at getting stuff out of chests as well.
How's this for a plan (fell for something similar on a friends server!):
Chest at the end of a 2*1 corridor (wide enough to walk down but too narrow to move) built of bedrock with block of dirt above
The dirt block hides a dispensor full of arrows triggered by the removal of a redstone torch on the side of the dirt block. A NOT/AND combination of logic means that if the correct code is entered at the start of the tunnel, the dispensor is disabled...
Obviously the corridor would have to be a decent length to prevent triggering and running away!
As I say, I'm new to all this, but thought it might work?
Hi there, welcome to the discussion (and the forums)!
It is only through experimentation and critique that we can improve. The problems there are numerous, but I'll hit a couple for you to chew on:
1) Something like a dispenser is not self resetting (it will only shoot till it runs out). A would be thief can expend multiple lives until it is empty and then walk away with the loot.
2) simply destroy the dispenser, or put up a barrier.
3) arrows have a curved trajectory, in a 2x1 corridor they won't travel far. Even assuming the corridor was much higher, range is simply not long enough to prevent someone from getting out.
4) iron/diamond armor and a good stock of cooked pork could easily keep you alive until you get out.
Fascinating topic, I briefly thought about this a while ago when I was thinking of building a redstone-locked bedrock fortress on my SMP server and the problem is how do you keep people from just breaking the door? I never explored it any further, but you guys have re-kindled my interest!
However I'd recommend adjusting the topic a little. This reminds me a lot of discussions on cryptography and security in the IT world. Searching for a 100% unbreakable vault is most likely futile, just as in cryptography there's no such thing as perfect information security. Instead, try coming up with a design that is technically breakable but would either take too much time or too many resources for it to be worthwhile. The idea is to make it so difficult to find a solution that no one would spend the time on it, or they would be discovered and dealt with before they can complete breaking it. Finding an effective way to hide it, camouflage it, and obfuscate it from people using X-Ray texture packs would be ideal. The challenge is multiplied greatly if it is difficult to find or get to in the first place.
I know this breaks the intent of the OP, but I'd suggest having two categories. Keep searching for an unbreakable vault just in case you find it, but expand the search to include weaker but viable designs.
Hopefully later this week I'll fire up another SMP server, OP some friends, and see what we can come up with. This looks like a fun topic to explore. Anyway, here's a small requirements list for what I'd want in a good vault on a public SMP server:
[*:2hpwhnqc]Easy for the owner to enter and exit (or use, if it's a locked-away storage minecart type), and not too time-consuming or expensive to operate.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to locate or detect if you don't know it exists.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to locate the user interface (i.e. hidden redstone circuits that you have to access by knowing exactly what blocks to place buttons on)
[*:2hpwhnqc]Obfuscated and confusing user interface. For example, with the above point, lots of blocks that seem to be connected to circuits where you can hook up indicator torches or input buttons/levers, but they actually have no effect on the lock or even lock the mechanism.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Lack of feedback. It should be difficult to discern if you're using the system correctly or not.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Adjustable. If I build a vault and fully understand it, someone else should be able to build their own vault using the same techniques and it should still be difficult and time-consuming for me to enter.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to grief. TNT, water, lava, seeds, cacti, boats, extra redstone torches, etc. should be unable to jam up the locking mechanism or entry point. Basically there should be no way for other users to destroy the vault's mechanisms from the outside and lock the owner out. As long as it can be repaired from the outside without hacks or MCEdit then it would meet this requirement.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Finally, the mechanism should have several layers of obscurity or obfuscation, to defend against X-Ray texture pack users. i.e. random redstone circuits, crazy 3D layouts, minecart tracks, blinking lights, water and lava, maybe even rooms full of TNT or dark rooms where mobs will spawn.
I think these are ideal requirements but as with any system ANY design will have to compromise. I might try something really simple to begin with, for example an 8-bit redstone combination lock which operates a long, winding 2x1 bedrock hallway with iron doors every couple steps. It'll probably include some standard door defense techniques in order to discourage breaking the door or slow down attackers who commit to that, but mostly it would rely on having so many doors that an attacker would easily be discovered before they finish entering. A maze design could add some required complexity. If the user enters the right combination then they can easily enter by following only the open doors, but there are tons of interconnected and winding passages with iron doors to confuse an attacker.
Those are my thoughts. I don't mean to derail the "unbreakable" requirement and I hope you guys find something!
I've got it. My concept takes advantage of the "theoretically possible to destroy with over 9000 TNT" nature of bedrock.
Basically, you have three vaults. The first one is the room with the combination lock. The second is the one with the redstone logic. And the third is the treasure room, which should be a bit like this:
[] [] [] [] [] [] []
= sign to make the water not have an annoying current.
The basic idea is that you have the redstone lead, while still completely encased with bedrock, to a huge number of TNT cannons (Note that this vault is designed to be theoretically possible, not practical). Each of these cannons should be delayed in such a way that every single one fires at the same time, and hits the bedrock block capping the treasure room. Obviously, the cannons should have bedrock cases to prevent somebody from running his own wires to them.
The result is that, although it's highly inconvenient/impractical, it would accomplish the goal of creating a vault which can only be broken by entering the code.
Oh, almost forgot, there also needs to be some bedrock interference in the air so that any cannons which aren't part of the system won't be able to hit the target.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Zarfot »
*This post intentionally left blank, although the the presence of this sentence means that this isn't true, good fight*
I've got it. My concept takes advantage of the "theoretically possible to destroy with over 9000 TNT" nature of bedrock.
No amount of TNT is enough to destroy bedrock, because explosion damage doesn't stack. If it did, someone would have broken obsidian with a TNT cannon by now (it only would take 78 TNT).
Quote from The_RabiDuck »
Ok, I'm new to this so be kind!
How's this for a plan (fell for something similar on a friends server!):
Chest at the end of a 2*1 corridor (wide enough to walk down but too narrow to move) built of bedrock with block of dirt above
The dirt block hides a dispensor full of arrows triggered by the removal of a redstone torch on the side of the dirt block. A NOT/AND combination of logic means that if the correct code is entered at the start of the tunnel, the dispensor is disabled...
Obviously the corridor would have to be a decent length to prevent triggering and running away!
As I say, I'm new to all this, but thought it might work?
The stylish way to break into this would either be:
A: Break the dirt, replace it with tnt, and get out of range before it explodes, then (if the dispenser's still running) just use dirt to block the corridor and scoop up all the items from the chest
B: Break the dirt, replace with a cake. You can open chests with cake on top, and the cake will block most/all the arrows.
Oh. There goes that idea. I thought it stacked if it were multiple explosions on the same tick. I'll think about this more though, I still may be able to come up with something.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Zarfot »
*This post intentionally left blank, although the the presence of this sentence means that this isn't true, good fight*
Oh. There goes that idea. I thought it stacked if it were multiple explosions on the same tick. I'll think about this more though, I still may be able to come up with something.
your numbers are a little off - according the wiki it would theoretically take 360,000 TNT to destroy bedrock. I can't wait to see THAT cannon :wink.gif:
# Although debate has led over whether Bedrock is able to be destroyed, Notch confirmed on the 11th of February 2011, during a Machinima Live stream[2], that it is indestructible, or so solid that the amount of TNT(about 360,000) it would to take to destroy it would more than certainly crash your computer, therefore the save file would show no evidence of the explosion ever happening.
# Contrary to common belief, it is not possible to break bedrock with a pickaxe in 12.5 hours. The bedrock has a TNT resistance of 18 million, but a "hardness" of -1. A block breaks once the amount of damage it has taken from a click matches the block's hardness; this value starts at 0 and increases, thus -1 cannot be reached.
Hey Z3R0M0N5T3R, welcome to the discussion! Sorry, I'm getting to the new designs as fast as time allows me.
To be honest, I don't really understand your drawing. Because players can phase through walls under the right conditions, block placement is really what makes or breaks these ideas, which i can't get any idea of at all from the drawing :sad.gif:
Maybe I wasn't very clear. The idea is to have a simple lock design of your choice, hooked up underground to a looping circular track. When activated, the track would allow a cart to veer out of the loop, into an entry room. so that you can retrieve the contents of a Chest Minecart. The minecart is powered by an engine cart that is provided by the transactor, and the engine can enter, but not leave the track, unless input is given to the track via password. The whole thing is surrounded by Bedrock,and the track is only one square tall; Keeping anyone from going into the room with the looping track without dying of suffocation. Plus, they won't be able to find, let alone destroy or peer in the cart.
I've already made it on my map, but I'll make a more condensed, pre-planned one on a different map. I'll provide the save ASAP. My prototype works, but Is unstable because it isn't completely surrounded with Bedrock at the moment, I'm sure I've left a nook unfilled.Also, thank you for the welcome!
-Z3R0
Track: [] [] [] [] [] <Recieved end [] [] [] [] []
^Loop track. Room is one block tall
Input needed to switch tracks = Track
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey, I'm new here.
Currently working on a clocktower, still need schematics for some memory units...
Nice to meet you!
this value starts at 0 and increases, thus -1 cannot be reached.
Well, I don't know how the whole it's calculated, but if it's an integer value, an overflow will surely happen, and then -1 WILL be reached.
And if it's using float values, then I'm 100% confident you can't destroy it because of the machine-epsilon precision.
According to someone who was poking around in the code, it is using float values. I haven't seen or confirmed this for myself, but i see little reason to doubt them :smile.gif:
Quote from Z3R0M0N5T3R »
Hey Z3R0M0N5T3R, welcome to the discussion! Sorry, I'm getting to the new designs as fast as time allows me.
To be honest, I don't really understand your drawing. Because players can phase through walls under the right conditions, block placement is really what makes or breaks these ideas, which i can't get any idea of at all from the drawing :sad.gif:
Maybe I wasn't very clear. The idea is to have a simple lock design of your choice, hooked up underground to a looping circular track. When activated, the track would allow a cart to veer out of the loop, into an entry room. so that you can retrieve the contents of a Chest Minecart. The minecart is powered by an engine cart that is provided by the transactor, and the engine can enter, but not leave the track, unless input is given to the track via password. The whole thing is surrounded by Bedrock,and the track is only one square tall; Keeping anyone from going into the room with the looping track without dying of suffocation. Plus, they won't be able to find, let alone destroy or peer in the cart.
I've already made it on my map, but I'll make a more condensed, pre-planned one on a different map. I'll provide the save ASAP. My prototype works, but Is unstable because it isn't completely surrounded with Bedrock at the moment, I'm sure I've left a nook unfilled.Also, thank you for the welcome!
-Z3R0
Track: [] [] [] [] [] <Recieved end [] [] [] [] []
^Loop track. Room is one block tall
Input needed to switch tracks = Track
ok, I'm getting you a little clearer i think.
You have a chestcart with some kind of a mechanism to send it out.
problems with that as I understand it:
1) diamond armor + an inventory full of cooked pork + peaceful mode means you can live in a 1x1 space for an absurdly long time. much longer than is feasible to imagine creating a track long enough to kill you.
2) track switches designed to send a cart in the wrong direction unless a code is entered can also be broken with a few attempts - just ride a cart in till you get to the switch, hop out, break the tracks going the wrong way and replace the switched track with what is now a straight track. press F5 and you can see while suffocating.
So far, these two issues remain unsolved in all our designs.
I was trying to think of a way you could do this, and I kind of came up with an idea but I wasn't sure how to implement it. Using the "minecart maze" idea but instead of it being flat, make it vertical. Kind of the way a bike lock would work, but in a more "3D" environment. So that to get into the vault, it would require you to input a combination outside that opens the iron doors in the right combination to allow you to fall to the next level...
= Tracks, = Bedrock, [] = hole w/ iron door
Top level: []
then the next level would be diff... []
etc...
So each level there would be a diff combination required so that the open door would allow the minecart to drop. if you could do this + the 1x1 space so that people couldnt just get out of the minecart and destroy it & the door.
FASEworld | Capitalism, Hoooo! | Allods Yasker's Tower
You new design is better, but it's still beatable by glitched minecarts. I probably ought to have explained. First, build a circle of track with four pieces. place 3 carts in the circle. They should boost each other around the track and then "merge." At this point, if you let them off the track, they'll just keep going.
I can use this glitch to break into your vault by knocking out the curved tracks that trap intruders with water, then riding the glitched carts over the bare bedrock.
@Fase: It was fake. Spectrrr quoted the relevant evidence a few pages back.
Edit:
Also, has anyone broken through my boat phase door? I didn't want to oversell it, but I believe it's totally impenetrable and by far the most griefer-resistant of all current designs.
Hey Jumbify, welcome to the conversation.
There have been various 1x1 hole designs created, some with a lava curtain you tele through, some where you just click a chest cart as it flies by, etc... but every single one of em suffers from the fundamental flaw that you can get through that 1x1 hole with either a boat, a minecart, or both. NO method of protection has yet been invented to guard this hole. If you want to read more on how it works and why this design branch of the project has been somewhat abandoned, you can start reading the back threads here: viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=240778&start=150#p3472443
I get the idea i'ts time to update the OP with a listing of the designs that DON'T work and why.... I'll try to get to that tonight.
Could you stop that method of breaking in by placing a rise at the end of the passage? Then the coupled carts wouldn't be able to go any further.
Ive been following this with some interest. Time to comment.
The glitched cart method here is certainly feasible. but as stated why can't you design an antechamber out of bedrock that has no places for a 4x4 circle of carts? If you made a tunnel to it long enough then even the momentum of the cart wouldnt carry through.
It be a pain in the butt to get down to, but the more secure you make something, the harder it is for the real people to get in as well.
dude , I would just cover the whole thing in water and be safe.... you know that would make the tnt not damage any blocks?
I believe the carts actually continue to build momentum as they go, so long tunnels probably aren't the solution, but I suppose a tiny antechamber accessed by a vertical shaft from below would work. No amount of momentum will make minecarts levitate. You'd have to be careful with interior boosters, though, since they tend to create 2x2 spaces.
With that example, you're forgetting that scientific theories are different from theories in our daily life, gravity is still a theory and I'm fairly sure we know that's real, for example.
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
ahh that's true, gravity is only a theory, which we certainly know is real and exists. (hadn't thought about that in my hasty reply)
But to try and take your example a step further, we know gravity exists and we can measure certain elements of its affects on the universe around us, however we are continuously improving and revising our knowledge and theories of it. Newton's works were pretty accurate, but ultimately superseded by even more complete and accurate information from Einstein, which more than likely will one day be superseded by (or simply unified/made compatible with) one of the quantum theories of gravity, as our knowledge of quantum mechanics slowly expands and grows.
The point in it all, it's just a theory that any vault with an entrance way of any kind must be eventually accessible without a code. I believe that the the game has so many glitches that it is VERY possible there exists a successful combination of shielded materials and mechanism that could produce the desired effect of creating a vault which cannot physically be broken into without knowing or guessing the correct lock combination.
Just like the theory of solids was shattered and then updated when the first brave user got in a boat and walked through a solid wall... then it became "solid, except under X circumstances." Or in the case of a vault, "open, except under X circumstances."
It is just a matter of systematically exploring and understanding more and more about each of the glitches and techniques available, until finally we understand enough of the picture that we can put the pieces together in the right order and create a new theory of vault security :smile.gif:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In other news, that little thing called RL struck tonight. I was not able to get to any of the promised vault tests. Sorry, I'll try to get to em tomorrow night.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The thief couldn't care less, since he's wearing diamond armour and probably has a stash of food in his hotbar. He's also probably quick at getting stuff out of chests as well.
Easily breakable.
Hi there, welcome to the discussion (and the forums)!
It is only through experimentation and critique that we can improve. The problems there are numerous, but I'll hit a couple for you to chew on:
1) Something like a dispenser is not self resetting (it will only shoot till it runs out). A would be thief can expend multiple lives until it is empty and then walk away with the loot.
2) simply destroy the dispenser, or put up a barrier.
3) arrows have a curved trajectory, in a 2x1 corridor they won't travel far. Even assuming the corridor was much higher, range is simply not long enough to prevent someone from getting out.
4) iron/diamond armor and a good stock of cooked pork could easily keep you alive until you get out.
However I'd recommend adjusting the topic a little. This reminds me a lot of discussions on cryptography and security in the IT world. Searching for a 100% unbreakable vault is most likely futile, just as in cryptography there's no such thing as perfect information security. Instead, try coming up with a design that is technically breakable but would either take too much time or too many resources for it to be worthwhile. The idea is to make it so difficult to find a solution that no one would spend the time on it, or they would be discovered and dealt with before they can complete breaking it. Finding an effective way to hide it, camouflage it, and obfuscate it from people using X-Ray texture packs would be ideal. The challenge is multiplied greatly if it is difficult to find or get to in the first place.
I know this breaks the intent of the OP, but I'd suggest having two categories. Keep searching for an unbreakable vault just in case you find it, but expand the search to include weaker but viable designs.
Hopefully later this week I'll fire up another SMP server, OP some friends, and see what we can come up with. This looks like a fun topic to explore. Anyway, here's a small requirements list for what I'd want in a good vault on a public SMP server:
[*:2hpwhnqc]Easy for the owner to enter and exit (or use, if it's a locked-away storage minecart type), and not too time-consuming or expensive to operate.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to locate or detect if you don't know it exists.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to locate the user interface (i.e. hidden redstone circuits that you have to access by knowing exactly what blocks to place buttons on)
[*:2hpwhnqc]Obfuscated and confusing user interface. For example, with the above point, lots of blocks that seem to be connected to circuits where you can hook up indicator torches or input buttons/levers, but they actually have no effect on the lock or even lock the mechanism.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Lack of feedback. It should be difficult to discern if you're using the system correctly or not.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Adjustable. If I build a vault and fully understand it, someone else should be able to build their own vault using the same techniques and it should still be difficult and time-consuming for me to enter.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Difficult to grief. TNT, water, lava, seeds, cacti, boats, extra redstone torches, etc. should be unable to jam up the locking mechanism or entry point. Basically there should be no way for other users to destroy the vault's mechanisms from the outside and lock the owner out. As long as it can be repaired from the outside without hacks or MCEdit then it would meet this requirement.
[*:2hpwhnqc]Finally, the mechanism should have several layers of obscurity or obfuscation, to defend against X-Ray texture pack users. i.e. random redstone circuits, crazy 3D layouts, minecart tracks, blinking lights, water and lava, maybe even rooms full of TNT or dark rooms where mobs will spawn.
I think these are ideal requirements but as with any system ANY design will have to compromise. I might try something really simple to begin with, for example an 8-bit redstone combination lock which operates a long, winding 2x1 bedrock hallway with iron doors every couple steps. It'll probably include some standard door defense techniques in order to discourage breaking the door or slow down attackers who commit to that, but mostly it would rely on having so many doors that an attacker would easily be discovered before they finish entering. A maze design could add some required complexity. If the user enters the right combination then they can easily enter by following only the open doors, but there are tons of interconnected and winding passages with iron doors to confuse an attacker.
Those are my thoughts. I don't mean to derail the "unbreakable" requirement and I hope you guys find something!
Basically, you have three vaults. The first one is the room with the combination lock. The second is the one with the redstone logic. And the third is the treasure room, which should be a bit like this:
[]
The basic idea is that you have the redstone lead, while still completely encased with bedrock, to a huge number of TNT cannons (Note that this vault is designed to be theoretically possible, not practical). Each of these cannons should be delayed in such a way that every single one fires at the same time, and hits the bedrock block capping the treasure room. Obviously, the cannons should have bedrock cases to prevent somebody from running his own wires to them.
The result is that, although it's highly inconvenient/impractical, it would accomplish the goal of creating a vault which can only be broken by entering the code.
Oh, almost forgot, there also needs to be some bedrock interference in the air so that any cannons which aren't part of the system won't be able to hit the target.
No amount of TNT is enough to destroy bedrock, because explosion damage doesn't stack. If it did, someone would have broken obsidian with a TNT cannon by now (it only would take 78 TNT).
The stylish way to break into this would either be:
A: Break the dirt, replace it with tnt, and get out of range before it explodes, then (if the dispenser's still running) just use dirt to block the corridor and scoop up all the items from the chest
B: Break the dirt, replace with a cake. You can open chests with cake on top, and the cake will block most/all the arrows.
your numbers are a little off - according the wiki it would theoretically take 360,000 TNT to destroy bedrock. I can't wait to see THAT cannon :wink.gif:
Excerpts from the wiki: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Bedrock
Maybe I wasn't very clear. The idea is to have a simple lock design of your choice, hooked up underground to a looping circular track. When activated, the track would allow a cart to veer out of the loop, into an entry room. so that you can retrieve the contents of a Chest Minecart. The minecart is powered by an engine cart that is provided by the transactor, and the engine can enter, but not leave the track, unless input is given to the track via password. The whole thing is surrounded by Bedrock,and the track is only one square tall; Keeping anyone from going into the room with the looping track without dying of suffocation. Plus, they won't be able to find, let alone destroy or peer in the cart.
I've already made it on my map, but I'll make a more condensed, pre-planned one on a different map. I'll provide the save ASAP. My prototype works, but Is unstable because it isn't completely surrounded with Bedrock at the moment, I'm sure I've left a nook unfilled.Also, thank you for the welcome!
-Z3R0
Track:
^Loop track. Room is one block tall
Input needed to switch tracks
Currently working on a clocktower, still need schematics for some memory units...
Nice to meet you!
According to someone who was poking around in the code, it is using float values. I haven't seen or confirmed this for myself, but i see little reason to doubt them :smile.gif:
ok, I'm getting you a little clearer i think.
You have a chestcart with some kind of a mechanism to send it out.
problems with that as I understand it:
1) diamond armor + an inventory full of cooked pork + peaceful mode means you can live in a 1x1 space for an absurdly long time. much longer than is feasible to imagine creating a track long enough to kill you.
2) track switches designed to send a cart in the wrong direction unless a code is entered can also be broken with a few attempts - just ride a cart in till you get to the switch, hop out, break the tracks going the wrong way and replace the switched track with what is now a straight track. press F5 and you can see while suffocating.
So far, these two issues remain unsolved in all our designs.
Top level:
then the next level would be diff...
etc...
So each level there would be a diff combination required so that the open door would allow the minecart to drop. if you could do this + the 1x1 space so that people couldnt just get out of the minecart and destroy it & the door.