I like to make maps in Minecraft and I also like that you need to make them and don't just have them.
I like having a large area scouted and being able to find and remembering landmarks.
however I HATE the maps themselves. Every upgrade is a sidegrade, because you only sacrifice range for accuracy and a 4/4 map has so little accuracy that the only thing you can read off one is general type of biome and snow if any. In order to precisely navigate somewhere you need smaller backup maps or remember the places, which should be the job of a map. And that's not their only problem. Their crafting is very buggy, often enough the paper is just consumed without upgrading the map, often enough the map's positioning mark just gets stuck or completely obscures a large area of the map because it is so fat and it's a 4/4 map, when you walk between two 4/4 maps, none of them can really tell where exactly you are(so there's an inexplicable gap between them) and despite the inaccuracy it takes forever for a 4/4 map to draw when exploring.
Also the maps generalize a lot of blocks, making the world look even plainer than it already is.
Why do we need to use extra paper, if the map doesn't increase in size or information density at all?
So why don't I just use a map from a mod you may ask?
They are not an utility, they are a cheat. They tell you exactly where you are, where you are facing, what mobs are around you and where they are, they let you zoom in and out whenever you want, exceeding the normal map's accuracy in every imaginable way and then there are the waypoints. Epicly useful for remembering landmarks and pathfinding.
Why would that be a problem? You have to do absolutely nothing for any of it! In regular MC we don't have that, because Steve, if everything he has is himself has no way of knowing what is in front of him and behind him when he can't see it. That's logical and immersive. You don't see him wear any hi-tech radar equipment, do you?(by default)
This bugs me, why isn't there something combining the best of both worlds?
Why can't we have a real map with pins and labels for landmarks, zoomability and everything?
Would that make sense? Absolutely!
The maps we use in real life have landmark names all over them and large books of maps oftenly have one area and a few pages later a closeup on these areas and travellers always liked to pin their maps.
Why can't we have maps that are both useful and make sense to be the way they are at the same time?
I don't really see those minimaps as cheating, aside from being able to see entities and such - you can just press F3 in vanilla and see exactly where you are, and the Console Edition even puts coordinates right on the map, even though the measly world size (864x864 blocks) doesn't really make coordinates very useful (the maps themselves are equivalent to 3/4 zoom maps and one map covers the whole world). I just record coordinates on a piece of paper when I want to mark something for future reference, such as a cave I was exploring and don't plan to return to it right away (I also build cobblestone pillars so I can easily find where I left off without knowing the exact coordinates; I carry around a fully zoomed out map so I can see where I've already been; if anything, I think the 128 block radius they map is a bit too large, a 32-64 block radius would be much more accurate at showing where I've been underground).
Also, the issue you describe with maps not zooming out is a bug - do not shift-click to zoom out, only pick it up out of the slot.
I don't really see those minimaps as cheating, aside from being able to see entities and such - you can just press F3 in vanilla and see exactly where you are, and the Console Edition even puts coordinates right on the map, even though the measly world size (864x864 blocks) doesn't really make coordinates very useful (the maps themselves are equivalent to 3/4 zoom maps and one map covers the whole world). I just record coordinates on a piece of paper when I want to mark something for future reference, such as a cave I was exploring and don't plan to return to it right away (I also build cobblestone pillars so I can easily find where I left off without knowing the exact coordinates; I carry around a fully zoomed out map so I can see where I've already been; if anything, I think the 128 block radius they map is a bit too large, a 32-64 block radius would be much more accurate at showing where I've been underground).
Also, the issue you describe with maps not zooming out is a bug - do not shift-click to zoom out, only pick it up out of the slot.
Having abstract numbers doesn't help exploration at all.
Such a practise would be just as ugly, or even uglier than the maps currently in Minecraft.
F3 view is very useful for finding chunk borders, though.
You do not seem to understand my point.
Also I did not shift-click. I once did, it failed and then aware that that might have been the problem never did it again and still got the issue.
Having abstract numbers doesn't help exploration at all.
Such a practise would be just as ugly, or even uglier than the maps currently in Minecraft.
F3 view is very useful for finding chunk borders, though.
You do not seem to understand my point.
Also I did not shift-click. I once did, it failed and then aware that that might have been the problem never did it again and still got the issue.
You seemed to suggest that having coordinates to tell you exactly where you are is an outright cheat:
They are not an utility, they are a cheat. They tell you exactly where you are...
Take away the coordinates, erm, "abstract numbers" and minimaps are not much different from in-game maps. Plus, I find the fact that minimaps, at least the one I've used before (Rei's Minimap in 1.6.2) do not show everything you've explored is a big limitation - they only show the immediate surrounding area, like a zoom level 0 map in-game which is centered around the player instead of a fixed point (I wouldn't be surprised if there is a mod that actually does this) so you don't need to make more - how do you make a map of your entire world? So you have some waypoints way out there but no permanent map of the area? That sounds abstract to me.
And I did NOT imply that you would ONLY have coordinates; as seen in my link you actually need a map in order to see them in Console Edition - so they go together. It is also not that hard at all to center a map at a known point; for example, on the map I'm currently using I know that the center is located at x=0, z=2048 and the edges are from x = -1024 to +1024 and z = 1024 to 3072 - knowing that a certain point is located within the bounds of a given map makes it much easier to navigate than if I only had coordinates or maps (I modded the game myself to show your coordinates in the inventory screen without the need for F3 and/or blocking the screen).
That said, ExplorerCraft may be what you are looking for; it lets you put markers on in-game maps and makes them easier to use, especially when covering large distances (I have not used this mod; Zeno410 uses it in their Survival journal, with plenty of screenshots):
Plus, I find the fact that minimaps, at least the one I've used before (Rei's Minimap in 1.6.2) do not show everything you've explored is a big limitation - they only show the immediate surrounding area, like a zoom level 0 map in-game which is centered around the player instead of a fixed point (I wouldn't be surprised if there is a mod that actually does this) so you don't need to make more - how do you make a map of your entire world? So you have some waypoints way out there but no permanent map of the area? That sounds abstract to me.
Antique Atlas apparently works in conjunction with in-game maps. You can combine them all into a convenient book instead of carrying around a bunch of map items that don't stack. I don't know what other features it has, though, as I've never actually got around to using it before switching to a minecraft version that AA hasn't upgraded to yet.
Myself, I prefer to use Journeymap. It has a fullscreen map that shows everywhere you've been in your world that you can drag around and zoom to look at things. You can separately toggle hostiles, passives, pets, and villagers, you can place waypoints, and there's even a nifty automapping feature that lets you unlock nearby portions of the map you haven't gone to yet (it doesn't fully reveal the map, but you can at least get an inkling of what's coming up so you can determine if you're going in a wrong direction).
I stopped using Minimaps because it was easy to cheat with for teleporting, exploring caves, finding mob spawners, etc. I now just write coordinates down for things I may want to come back to in a Bibliocraft book or Book & Quill and use Warp Book mod to teleport places. It requires a book and ender pearl to create the book and then a paper and ender pearl to create each warp page. Each book can contain up to 56 warps I think. Every time you teleport, it consumes hunger depending on distance so you can't just teleport anywhere or between dimensions. It gives a nice fair medium. If you would like to teleport longer distances or across dimensions, I would suggest XPTeleporters. I also use OpenBlock's gravestone feature to assure my items don't despawn whenever I die. That's the hardest part about playing without minimaps is knowing where you died.
Shirololl I'm not aware of a mod that will give you what you want.
I do want to attempt to persuade you to my viewpoint regarding minecraft maps, which I think matches the developers take on it. Think of the larger scale maps as being maps of a larger amount of area on the same size paper. You lose the amount of detail you can present in the same size paper as the macro scale increases.
For example a real life road atlas map really doesn't have a lot of detail and instead cheats by switching to an icon/line system to call out towns, roads, and points of interest. The actual detail of the geography on the page is very basic. This is because at the scale necessary to fit the map onto a page (or two side by side) individual building and even the roads aren't going to be visible and thus have no value worth relying on. However if you get a trail map for hiking of a smaller region you can get quite a bit more geographical detail although again they still cheat because even at that scale even if you took for example an actual satellite map image of the area you would have a hard time picking out trail and points of interest.
Minecrafts larger scale maps are actually surprisingly useful for navigation partially because of the positional marker that shows your location. I find that when exploring new areas, if I don't want to actually map them but just want to know where I am in relation to my base, I'll just pack a map of my base to refer to when I'm ready to head back. The white circle on the side shows me the direction I am in relation to my base and I head that way until I'm back on my map. I'll usually pack a compass as a backup just in case I might lose the map or the marker gets stuck. I usually avoid traveling through nether portals during a play session where I'm intending to use a map or compass because that is a major cause for them to mess up. If I do I'll log out then back in before taking my mapping journey.
[edit]
I forgot to mention that for dedicated travel between points of interest or building sites I rely on roads, rail lines and nether portal networks and not maps for the same reasons you site. Maps at the larger scales just don't show enough detail to pick out anything but extremely large structures.
Try out Zeno410's mod ExplorerCraft it has most of what you are looking for, and it is updated for 1.8.
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BTC 1FhCLQK2ZXtCUQDtG98p6fVH7S6mxAsEey
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Hmm, never seemed very cheaty to me, because you had to make the maps and the markers, and because it is not a minimap, but I could be wrong. It also seems sort-of complex, but, although I have never played with it, I have Seen Zeno play with it in his survival journal, Zeno's Explorations and Mod Development.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BTC 1FhCLQK2ZXtCUQDtG98p6fVH7S6mxAsEey
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Are you playing on a server? Because it does not matter whether you play on 1.8 or 1.8.9 in singleplayer, unless there is a serious or game-play-altering bug that was fixed that I don't know about (not the server-sided security issues). Actually, even for servers Mojang keeps claiming that they are "100% compatible with all 1.8 versions" (any 1.8.x client should be able to connect to any 1.8.x server without issues).
If you insist on using the latest version you'll almost never find any mods (especially more complex ones) that are updated to it - there are even still mods that have not updated to 1.8 yet!
Are you playing on a server? Because it does not matter whether you play on 1.8 or 1.8.9 in singleplayer, unless there is a serious or game-play-altering bug that was fixed that I don't know about (not the server-sided security issues). Actually, even for servers Mojang keeps claiming that they are "100% compatible with all 1.8 versions" (any 1.8.x client should be able to connect to any 1.8.x server without issues).
If you insist on using the latest version you'll almost never find any mods (especially more complex ones) that are updated to it - there are even still mods that have not updated to 1.8 yet!
And no, a downgrade is not an option. My mods are on 1.8.9
BTC 1FhCLQK2ZXtCUQDtG98p6fVH7S6mxAsEey
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Then a downgrade should be an option, because TC5 has a version for 1.8. if you're willing to give up some features then you should be able to downgrade. also here is the download link for TC5 for 1.8: Thaumcraft-1.8-5.0.3.jar
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BTC 1FhCLQK2ZXtCUQDtG98p6fVH7S6mxAsEey
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Then a downgrade should be an option, because TC5 has a version for 1.8. if you're willing to give up some features then you should be able to downgrade. also here is the download link for TC5 for 1.8: Thaumcraft-1.8-5.0.3.jar
Thaumcraft is the most important aspect of playing Minecraft for me. So no.
Thaumcraft is the most important aspect of playing Minecraft for me. So no.
You do know that there is a version of Thaumcraft for 1.8 and a version for 1.8.9 so, if you are willing to sacrifice some features, you can downgrade and and still have most of Thaumcraft's features, and a map mod.
Also if you do not want to give up some features then I can't help anymore. Explorercraft is the only mod I can think of that has most of what you want.
BTC 1FhCLQK2ZXtCUQDtG98p6fVH7S6mxAsEey
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
I like to make maps in Minecraft and I also like that you need to make them and don't just have them.
I like having a large area scouted and being able to find and remembering landmarks.
however I HATE the maps themselves. Every upgrade is a sidegrade, because you only sacrifice range for accuracy and a 4/4 map has so little accuracy that the only thing you can read off one is general type of biome and snow if any. In order to precisely navigate somewhere you need smaller backup maps or remember the places, which should be the job of a map. And that's not their only problem. Their crafting is very buggy, often enough the paper is just consumed without upgrading the map, often enough the map's positioning mark just gets stuck or completely obscures a large area of the map because it is so fat and it's a 4/4 map, when you walk between two 4/4 maps, none of them can really tell where exactly you are(so there's an inexplicable gap between them) and despite the inaccuracy it takes forever for a 4/4 map to draw when exploring.
Also the maps generalize a lot of blocks, making the world look even plainer than it already is.
Why do we need to use extra paper, if the map doesn't increase in size or information density at all?
So why don't I just use a map from a mod you may ask?
They are not an utility, they are a cheat. They tell you exactly where you are, where you are facing, what mobs are around you and where they are, they let you zoom in and out whenever you want, exceeding the normal map's accuracy in every imaginable way and then there are the waypoints. Epicly useful for remembering landmarks and pathfinding.
Why would that be a problem? You have to do absolutely nothing for any of it! In regular MC we don't have that, because Steve, if everything he has is himself has no way of knowing what is in front of him and behind him when he can't see it. That's logical and immersive. You don't see him wear any hi-tech radar equipment, do you?(by default)
This bugs me, why isn't there something combining the best of both worlds?
Why can't we have a real map with pins and labels for landmarks, zoomability and everything?
Would that make sense? Absolutely!
The maps we use in real life have landmark names all over them and large books of maps oftenly have one area and a few pages later a closeup on these areas and travellers always liked to pin their maps.
Why can't we have maps that are both useful and make sense to be the way they are at the same time?
I made a D flip-flop!
I don't really see those minimaps as cheating, aside from being able to see entities and such - you can just press F3 in vanilla and see exactly where you are, and the Console Edition even puts coordinates right on the map, even though the measly world size (864x864 blocks) doesn't really make coordinates very useful (the maps themselves are equivalent to 3/4 zoom maps and one map covers the whole world). I just record coordinates on a piece of paper when I want to mark something for future reference, such as a cave I was exploring and don't plan to return to it right away (I also build cobblestone pillars so I can easily find where I left off without knowing the exact coordinates; I carry around a fully zoomed out map so I can see where I've already been; if anything, I think the 128 block radius they map is a bit too large, a 32-64 block radius would be much more accurate at showing where I've been underground).
Also, the issue you describe with maps not zooming out is a bug - do not shift-click to zoom out, only pick it up out of the slot.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Having abstract numbers doesn't help exploration at all.
Such a practise would be just as ugly, or even uglier than the maps currently in Minecraft.
F3 view is very useful for finding chunk borders, though.
You do not seem to understand my point.
Also I did not shift-click. I once did, it failed and then aware that that might have been the problem never did it again and still got the issue.
I made a D flip-flop!
You seemed to suggest that having coordinates to tell you exactly where you are is an outright cheat:
Take away the coordinates, erm, "abstract numbers" and minimaps are not much different from in-game maps. Plus, I find the fact that minimaps, at least the one I've used before (Rei's Minimap in 1.6.2) do not show everything you've explored is a big limitation - they only show the immediate surrounding area, like a zoom level 0 map in-game which is centered around the player instead of a fixed point (I wouldn't be surprised if there is a mod that actually does this) so you don't need to make more - how do you make a map of your entire world? So you have some waypoints way out there but no permanent map of the area? That sounds abstract to me.
And I did NOT imply that you would ONLY have coordinates; as seen in my link you actually need a map in order to see them in Console Edition - so they go together. It is also not that hard at all to center a map at a known point; for example, on the map I'm currently using I know that the center is located at x=0, z=2048 and the edges are from x = -1024 to +1024 and z = 1024 to 3072 - knowing that a certain point is located within the bounds of a given map makes it much easier to navigate than if I only had coordinates or maps (I modded the game myself to show your coordinates in the inventory screen without the need for F3 and/or blocking the screen).
That said, ExplorerCraft may be what you are looking for; it lets you put markers on in-game maps and makes them easier to use, especially when covering large distances (I have not used this mod; Zeno410 uses it in their Survival journal, with plenty of screenshots):
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1292179-1-8-1-7-x-1-6-x-1-5-2-explorercraft-0-9-multimap
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Antique Atlas apparently works in conjunction with in-game maps. You can combine them all into a convenient book instead of carrying around a bunch of map items that don't stack. I don't know what other features it has, though, as I've never actually got around to using it before switching to a minecraft version that AA hasn't upgraded to yet.
Myself, I prefer to use Journeymap. It has a fullscreen map that shows everywhere you've been in your world that you can drag around and zoom to look at things. You can separately toggle hostiles, passives, pets, and villagers, you can place waypoints, and there's even a nifty automapping feature that lets you unlock nearby portions of the map you haven't gone to yet (it doesn't fully reveal the map, but you can at least get an inkling of what's coming up so you can determine if you're going in a wrong direction).
I stopped using Minimaps because it was easy to cheat with for teleporting, exploring caves, finding mob spawners, etc. I now just write coordinates down for things I may want to come back to in a Bibliocraft book or Book & Quill and use Warp Book mod to teleport places. It requires a book and ender pearl to create the book and then a paper and ender pearl to create each warp page. Each book can contain up to 56 warps I think. Every time you teleport, it consumes hunger depending on distance so you can't just teleport anywhere or between dimensions. It gives a nice fair medium. If you would like to teleport longer distances or across dimensions, I would suggest XPTeleporters. I also use OpenBlock's gravestone feature to assure my items don't despawn whenever I die. That's the hardest part about playing without minimaps is knowing where you died.
Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately they all don't work for 1.8.9...
I made a D flip-flop!
Shirololl I'm not aware of a mod that will give you what you want.
I do want to attempt to persuade you to my viewpoint regarding minecraft maps, which I think matches the developers take on it. Think of the larger scale maps as being maps of a larger amount of area on the same size paper. You lose the amount of detail you can present in the same size paper as the macro scale increases.
For example a real life road atlas map really doesn't have a lot of detail and instead cheats by switching to an icon/line system to call out towns, roads, and points of interest. The actual detail of the geography on the page is very basic. This is because at the scale necessary to fit the map onto a page (or two side by side) individual building and even the roads aren't going to be visible and thus have no value worth relying on. However if you get a trail map for hiking of a smaller region you can get quite a bit more geographical detail although again they still cheat because even at that scale even if you took for example an actual satellite map image of the area you would have a hard time picking out trail and points of interest.
Minecrafts larger scale maps are actually surprisingly useful for navigation partially because of the positional marker that shows your location. I find that when exploring new areas, if I don't want to actually map them but just want to know where I am in relation to my base, I'll just pack a map of my base to refer to when I'm ready to head back. The white circle on the side shows me the direction I am in relation to my base and I head that way until I'm back on my map. I'll usually pack a compass as a backup just in case I might lose the map or the marker gets stuck. I usually avoid traveling through nether portals during a play session where I'm intending to use a map or compass because that is a major cause for them to mess up. If I do I'll log out then back in before taking my mapping journey.
[edit]
I forgot to mention that for dedicated travel between points of interest or building sites I rely on roads, rail lines and nether portal networks and not maps for the same reasons you site. Maps at the larger scales just don't show enough detail to pick out anything but extremely large structures.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Try out Zeno410's mod ExplorerCraft it has most of what you are looking for, and it is updated for 1.8.
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
If only we could mark points on the Minecraft maps, I would be happy to use them. As they are, I'm only interested in making wall decorations of them.
I make cairns and obelisks and place signs to help me navigate. Maps offer little guidance, as far as I can tell.
My short story-like journals; quick-and-easy reads:
My Quest for Elytra Complete! (Pic Intense, End-Game Spoilers)
[Journal & Pics] After a Year and a Half, I Finally Found a Jungle
FrozenCore: Hardcore Death; 3/20/15 to 5/3/15; Eight Weeks on a Frozen World in Pictures
I knew Zeno had a map mod, but had never looked at it in detail. I had mistakenly assumed it was more 'cheaty' like a lot of other map mods.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Again:
Not for 1.8.9...
I made a D flip-flop!
Hmm, never seemed very cheaty to me, because you had to make the maps and the markers, and because it is not a minimap, but I could be wrong. It also seems sort-of complex, but, although I have never played with it, I have Seen Zeno play with it in his survival journal, Zeno's Explorations and Mod Development.
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Are you playing on a server? Because it does not matter whether you play on 1.8 or 1.8.9 in singleplayer, unless there is a serious or game-play-altering bug that was fixed that I don't know about (not the server-sided security issues). Actually, even for servers Mojang keeps claiming that they are "100% compatible with all 1.8 versions" (any 1.8.x client should be able to connect to any 1.8.x server without issues).
If you insist on using the latest version you'll almost never find any mods (especially more complex ones) that are updated to it - there are even still mods that have not updated to 1.8 yet!
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
And no, a downgrade is not an option. My mods are on 1.8.9
I made a D flip-flop!
What's your mod list? Also have you installed ZenoTechnology.
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
TC5 and of course Baubles.
It's not saying it was incompatible with any mods, though.
also yes.
I made a D flip-flop!
Then a downgrade should be an option, because TC5 has a version for 1.8. if you're willing to give up some features then you should be able to downgrade. also here is the download link for TC5 for 1.8: Thaumcraft-1.8-5.0.3.jar
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Thaumcraft is the most important aspect of playing Minecraft for me. So no.
I made a D flip-flop!
You do know that there is a version of Thaumcraft for 1.8 and a version for 1.8.9 so, if you are willing to sacrifice some features, you can downgrade and and still have most of Thaumcraft's features, and a map mod.
Also if you do not want to give up some features then I can't help anymore. Explorercraft is the only mod I can think of that has most of what you want.
We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.