First of all, Jeb is doing a ****ing stellar job on the terrain. That needs to be said. And, to be honest, I think he knows it, given the soaring feedback he's gotten lately on jungles and height limit increases. The man deserves all the good words he gets.
However, there are still some elements concerning terrain that need work, and it would be a good idea for us to compile them, and talk them out a bit. Without whining, submit what you perceive to be the main terrain elements that need work.
Here's my little list (which I will likely add to later):
1. Biome Mismatching & Hard Transitions
More often than not (and far more often than should be) biomes are pieced together in such a way that makes little to no sense, and unfortunately this hampers the immersive quality of the game. When I stumble out of a snowy pine forest into a sweltering jungle or a smoldering desert, it jarrs me out of the game. I'm no longer traversing a living, breathing world, but rather surveying a sloppily stitched together photoshop job.
And what amplifies this (and is actually a problem that could be listed on its own, but I include here because of its relation to the issue) are the hard 3-10 block transitions between biomes. I'm not sure why Mojang thought it was a good idea to change it from gradual transitions to short (they actually pointed this out as if it was a good thing), but it looks pretty awful for the most part, especially with biomes that are so drastically different from one another.
2. Hard Color Coding of Biomes
The issue of biome colors being hard wired into the game, and thus rendering texture pack designers incapable of modifying the look of the game without hacking and modding the game outright, baffles me in its obviousness. Why did Mojang introduce the grasscolor.png and foliagecolor.png files to supposedly control the biome coloration if they weren't going to actually use them? The end result is that we're stuck with unnaturally putrid looking purple swamps and sterile blue pine forests. I do wish Jeb would give texture pack designers the liberty to control those ourselves (not to mention the water and lava animations).
3. Lack or Overabundance of Foliage
For some reason, Minecraft is populated with two kinds of foliage. Unbelievably dense, or non-existant. Forests are packed to the limit with tiny little trees (which causes a great deal of lag, by the way), and plains and mountains are rendered almost completely bare of any sort of trees. Mountains especially look weird without a the occasional sprig of trees. They look like cancer patients. Sick and unnatural. Either we're dropped off into a forest too dense to bother building in, or we're dropped off in an empty plain with no trees around to liven up the atmosphere or build with. Forests could use a tone down of trees, and plains and mountains could use a little sprinkle.
4. Swamps are... Awful
I can really think of no other way to say it. Swamps need work. Not only is there very little of value in them and nothing to really keep you coming back, but they look pretty terrible. This is in part due to the fact that Mojang has hard coded a purplish tint into the biome to change the green to brown, and the fact that the biome transition is so short that each block of transition is exposed and... just plain bad looking. They also feel rather bare and lacking in their own individual atmosphere. Aside from the vines, nothing really distinguishes it from any other biome in the game. The trees look the same. The grass is simply brown, yet the same. Mushrooms can be found everywhere else.
5. Flatness
While Jeb did recently incorporate a slight increase in height variation, it still feels a little flat. I certainly don't think we should get rid of the flat plains, they are fantastic in highlighting mountains on the horizon, and great for building. But I do think we need an in-between biome, a hilly biome, to shake things up a bit. Being limited to either massively jagged mountains overhanging miles overhead or flat plains with nothing of value on them for miles, is kind of discouraging.
6. Overabundance of Jungles
I get it. Jungles are awesome. And I'm not being facetious. They are indeed awesome, by far the best biome in the game. But I don't think we need as many jungle biomes to spawn as currently do. Not only does the overabundance make them feel much less special than they should, but they tend to overshadow the biomes around them, highlighting their lack of character and novelty.
7. Empty Oceans
I am definitely not of the opinion that oceans are too big. Oceans should be big. Enormous. They should surround our continents and landmasses entirely. But there should be something of value in them, rather than being just plain... empty. And I don't mean underwater content, although that would be pretty great as well. I mean they should be populated with tons of medium to large sized islands. There should be a reason for us to set sail in them. We should want to explore them, to discover what awesome kind of environments lay within them. In fact, it might be a good idea to limit jungles (or perhaps a new "tropical" biome) exclusively to the sea. We should be rewarded for setting sail!
8. Deserts Sprinkled With Oases
Not sure why, but Mojang seems to love to sprinkle water deposits all over deserts. I understand the draw of having the occasional oasis in the desert, but they're currently buckshot with the things. I think one of the main attributes that makes a desert a desert is the dryness. Perhaps Mojang felt that deserts were a little boring and bare and wanted to add something to liven them up, but I personally think that deserts should be rather bare. I still find them interesting. Give them some cacti, lizards, and hilly mounds of sand, and I think they're pretty good.
All of this I like. The islands would really make it more fun to explore, because normally I just stay in one place and hang out there, because the rest of minecraft looks exactly the same. A tropical island in the middle of the ocean would be awesome, with coconuts and everything :P. There should also be more things for exploring. Possibly making pumpkins more rare and more useful, since I remember I used to travel miles to find at least one pumpkin to have for a jack-o-lantern. Maybe have them do something cool... but I don't really know. Just something to make the game more rewarding for exploring. The NPC villages were nice, but those could also have more value. I mean, once you can go out of your way to look for them, you don't really need the little bits of wheat that they have. They are cool to find, and I really like NPC villages, just make them either more rare or something along those lines. Some reason to explore.
IMHO, the frequency of jungles does need to be toned down a bit and the piece about height variation is true, either flat or mountainous, no in-between. You want non-mountainous highlands? Check out Scotland. In Pennsylvania mountains are literally covered with massive green forests. Mountains in minecraft feel like cancer patients because really, any mountain that doesn't go above the treeline should be forested. I don't know why people hate on swamps so much, but I think an awesome touch to the swamp - and the game in general - would be fog. The sort of fog that hampers movement and ease of travel. Zombies and monsters could spawn in fog in the middle of the day OR you could introduce a new mob that only spawns in fog banks like a partially transparent ghost or something. Another idea is to put in graveyards and destroyed and abandoned villages. This would greatly enhance the level of intrigue in the game, create more dynamic areas and bring an element of life to the world. Perhaps some villages could be haunted and a thick layer of fog hangs over them constantly until you destroy some kind of crystal in the caves below it? That is, if you can get past the hordes of the undead.
Another thought, what, besides housing the end-dragon, is the point of The End? There aren't really any interesting resources to get there that allow you to do cool new stuff like in the nether. Granted, it is way tougher to get to, but the rewards for visiting should be more interesting. Sorry if the last bit was a little off-topic.
I must say I enjoy swamp biomes, because of the water and the dark coloring, but I haven't seen many. Biomes are suppose to be separated with rivers, but most of the time that doesn't work well. I agree with the idea that the desert looks like it got blasted with a water shotgun, there should be less water.
My hope is with Jebs recent work of greatly expanding the # of block ID's available, that we can get more diversity within the biomes themselves, particularly oceans. Sea weed growing in patches on the bottom, sort of like vines but growing upward. How to intigrate them with water is the big question, but should be possible. Swamps and the random waterpools could really use some cattails IMO to add interest.
Generation itself could indeed use more work and I agree the bald mountains are an eyesore IMO. Also deserts should be exempt from random water pool generaton (see my terrain features idea below for an alternative). I disagree about the forests being too dense. I too think that they need a hills biome and that hills should have either an occasional tree here and there and/or occasionally small clumps of trees in depressions. I would like to see a badlands biome, that is mostly exposed rock and gravel, with occasional small patches of sand and dirt.
I would like to see biome specific natural terrain features that have a small chance to be placed into the terrain, much like villages and mineshafts are now. These features would be large and custom built. For example deserts might have a balancing rock/rock arch or an oasis, plains might have a 'devils tower', oceans might have a volcanic island, mountains might have a glacier, etc. These features would assist with visual navigation of the terrain and provide variety and interest.
Your point on "flatness" leaves me utterly confused, short of plains (which are quite rare in my current seeds) every biome is quite hilly. Are we playing the same game?
IMHO, the frequency of jungles does need to be toned down a bit and the piece about height variation is true, either flat or mountainous, no in-between. You want non-mountainous highlands? Check out Scotland. In Pennsylvania mountains are literally covered with massive green forests. Mountains in minecraft feel like cancer patients because really, any mountain that doesn't go above the treeline should be forested. I don't know why people hate on swamps so much, but I think an awesome touch to the swamp - and the game in general - would be fog. The sort of fog that hampers movement and ease of travel. Zombies and monsters could spawn in fog in the middle of the day OR you could introduce a new mob that only spawns in fog banks like a partially transparent ghost or something. Another idea is to put in graveyards and destroyed and abandoned villages. This would greatly enhance the level of intrigue in the game, create more dynamic areas and bring an element of life to the world. Perhaps some villages could be haunted and a thick layer of fog hangs over them constantly until you destroy some kind of crystal in the caves below it? That is, if you can get past the hordes of the undead.
Another thought, what, besides housing the end-dragon, is the point of The End? There aren't really any interesting resources to get there that allow you to do cool new stuff like in the nether. Granted, it is way tougher to get to, but the rewards for visiting should be more interesting. Sorry if the last bit was a little off-topic.
I can't agree with this enough. Everything about it is PERFECT. Especially the foggy ideas for the swamp.
I also think the swamp's mud should be a bit like soulsand. Ever tried walking in a swamp? Try living in one. It's loads of fun. (well, for me at least.) The swamp's been drained for the most part, making it more livable, but still, the slightest bit of water sets it off even on high ground. Your feet slip and you have to walk duck-footed for a while until you reach somewhere higher and dry. the water looks murky, which I think should be added to minecraft. The water is so dense you can't see much if anything through it unless left alone. So, in minecraft, I think it should get murky if you walk in it, and around the banks. The fog level is ridiculous here. It gets to the point that you expect herobrine to pop out and kill you. (I am talking about real life there.)
Plus, ghosts would make the game that much more realistic. Ever been on an investigation? You'll be a believer.
Anyway, backing what you said, Swamps should be foggier, filled with slightly slowing mud (not too bad though, since it'll make it completely dreadful) murky water, dense fog (even denser after the rain) and harmless ghosts as well as rare poltergeists.
There should be graveyards and burial grounds scattered around close to villages both ruined and working. I think that the ruined graveyards would be sweet if they worked like a stronghold. If you mined something (like a gravestone) there should be a zombie that spawns. If you kill it, it would die and no others will spawn until you mine something else. If you mine a double-marker, 2 zombies should pop up, etc. There should, however, be something hidden in the graves (like diamonds or something) that would make you want to explore the graveyards. Ghosts should inhabit the working graveyards to act like guardians.
I donno, just some ideas
But still, I really do agree with what you posted. Even that would be amazing
I also think the swamp's mud should be a bit like soulsand. Ever tried walking in a swamp? Try living in one. It's loads of fun. (well, for me at least.) The swamp's been drained for the most part, making it more livable, but still, the slightest bit of water sets it off even on high ground. Your feet slip and you have to walk duck-footed for a while until you reach somewhere higher and dry. the water looks murky, which I think should be added to minecraft. The water is so dense you can't see much if anything through it unless left alone. So, in minecraft, I think it should get murky if you walk in it, and around the banks. The fog level is ridiculous here. It gets to the point that you expect herobrine to pop out and kill you. (I am talking about real life there.)
Plus, ghosts would make the game that much more realistic. Ever been on an investigation? You'll be a believer.
Anyway, backing what you said, Swamps should be foggier, filled with slightly slowing mud (not too bad though, since it'll make it completely dreadful) murky water, dense fog (even denser after the rain) and harmless ghosts as well as rare poltergeists.
There should be graveyards and burial grounds scattered around close to villages both ruined and working. I think that the ruined graveyards would be sweet if they worked like a stronghold. If you mined something (like a gravestone) there should be a zombie that spawns. If you kill it, it would die and no others will spawn until you mine something else. If you mine a double-marker, 2 zombies should pop up, etc. There should, however, be something hidden in the graves (like diamonds or something) that would make you want to explore the graveyards. Ghosts should inhabit the working graveyards to act like guardians.
In addition to the ideas with the zombies popping out when gravestones are disturbed, there should be some biome-specific undead mobs. Ghosts in the swamps, zombies in standard forests, maybe wild-men in the jungle, mummies in the desert and some kind of frozen or abominable snowman zombie in taiga or tundra.
Also, in jungles there should be somewhat mayan-esque ruin structures. Just some extra thoughts : )
Maybe a solution for the mismatched biomes could be better coding? Some biomes would not be next to another, while others are okay. A desert wouldn't be next to a tundra biome, but either can be next to a mountain biome. I agree that jungles are nice, but less would be better and I wouldn't mind more islands at all, as long as it isn't too crowded.
Although I got the game in Beta I still have seen and love the beaches of alpha, I like the fact that Jeb tried to make new ones but there just not that good. Besides that I'm in love with 1.2 terrain generation.
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the sentence below is true.
the sentence above is false.
Good read. I pretty much agree with everything exept for the hilly biome thing. Plains are good, hills are good and i dont mind a little bit of both. Plus, the plains IMO should actually be a little flatter and the hills should be more "hilly".
Oh, I love the idea of having the jungle biomes limited to islands in the middle of the ocean... That certainly would make them seem more special, and give a great reason to venture out into the sea in search of them! ^^ I agree with most everything else, too, to some extent.
I can really think of no other way to say it. Swamps need work. Not only is there very little of value in them and nothing to really keep you coming back, but they look pretty terrible. This is in part due to the fact that Mojang has hard coded a purplish tint into the biome to change the green to brown, and the fact that the biome transition is so short that each block of transition is exposed and... just plain bad looking. They also feel rather bare and lacking in their own individual atmosphere. Aside from the vines, nothing really distinguishes it from any other biome in the game. The trees look the same. The grass is simply brown, yet the same. Mushrooms can be found everywhere else.
This is the only part I disagree with. Swamps are probably my favorite biome. Graveyards are a neat idea but should be limited to either villages or village ruins. I believe that the true issue with the terrain generator is the plethora of caves. I've made mine home in a desert biome, and I can barely dig a 5x5 hole without hitting a new cave system. Players who enjoy building underground structures are severely hampered by this.
This is the only part I disagree with. Swamps are probably my favorite biome. Graveyards are a neat idea but should be limited to either villages or village ruins. I believe that the true issue with the terrain generator is the plethora of caves. I've made mine home in a desert biome, and I can barely dig a 5x5 hole without hitting a new cave system. Players who enjoy building underground structures are severely hampered by this.
Completely agree with your point about too many caves. In my opinion I would prefer a cave to be a rare sighting instead of a common feature. Caves should be a good thing to find instead of a hindrance. This could be done pretty easily by making ores more abundant in and around cave systems. As of right now, branch mining is way too efficient for anyone to even consider going into a cave for resources other than the very beginning of a world. Caves, in my opinion, should be the more dangerous, but more rewarding alternative to branch mining.
However, there are still some elements concerning terrain that need work, and it would be a good idea for us to compile them, and talk them out a bit. Without whining, submit what you perceive to be the main terrain elements that need work.
Here's my little list (which I will likely add to later):
1. Biome Mismatching & Hard Transitions
More often than not (and far more often than should be) biomes are pieced together in such a way that makes little to no sense, and unfortunately this hampers the immersive quality of the game. When I stumble out of a snowy pine forest into a sweltering jungle or a smoldering desert, it jarrs me out of the game. I'm no longer traversing a living, breathing world, but rather surveying a sloppily stitched together photoshop job.
And what amplifies this (and is actually a problem that could be listed on its own, but I include here because of its relation to the issue) are the hard 3-10 block transitions between biomes. I'm not sure why Mojang thought it was a good idea to change it from gradual transitions to short (they actually pointed this out as if it was a good thing), but it looks pretty awful for the most part, especially with biomes that are so drastically different from one another.
2. Hard Color Coding of Biomes
The issue of biome colors being hard wired into the game, and thus rendering texture pack designers incapable of modifying the look of the game without hacking and modding the game outright, baffles me in its obviousness. Why did Mojang introduce the grasscolor.png and foliagecolor.png files to supposedly control the biome coloration if they weren't going to actually use them? The end result is that we're stuck with unnaturally putrid looking purple swamps and sterile blue pine forests. I do wish Jeb would give texture pack designers the liberty to control those ourselves (not to mention the water and lava animations).
3. Lack or Overabundance of Foliage
For some reason, Minecraft is populated with two kinds of foliage. Unbelievably dense, or non-existant. Forests are packed to the limit with tiny little trees (which causes a great deal of lag, by the way), and plains and mountains are rendered almost completely bare of any sort of trees. Mountains especially look weird without a the occasional sprig of trees. They look like cancer patients. Sick and unnatural. Either we're dropped off into a forest too dense to bother building in, or we're dropped off in an empty plain with no trees around to liven up the atmosphere or build with. Forests could use a tone down of trees, and plains and mountains could use a little sprinkle.
4. Swamps are... Awful
I can really think of no other way to say it. Swamps need work. Not only is there very little of value in them and nothing to really keep you coming back, but they look pretty terrible. This is in part due to the fact that Mojang has hard coded a purplish tint into the biome to change the green to brown, and the fact that the biome transition is so short that each block of transition is exposed and... just plain bad looking. They also feel rather bare and lacking in their own individual atmosphere. Aside from the vines, nothing really distinguishes it from any other biome in the game. The trees look the same. The grass is simply brown, yet the same. Mushrooms can be found everywhere else.
5. Flatness
While Jeb did recently incorporate a slight increase in height variation, it still feels a little flat. I certainly don't think we should get rid of the flat plains, they are fantastic in highlighting mountains on the horizon, and great for building. But I do think we need an in-between biome, a hilly biome, to shake things up a bit. Being limited to either massively jagged mountains overhanging miles overhead or flat plains with nothing of value on them for miles, is kind of discouraging.
6. Overabundance of Jungles
I get it. Jungles are awesome. And I'm not being facetious. They are indeed awesome, by far the best biome in the game. But I don't think we need as many jungle biomes to spawn as currently do. Not only does the overabundance make them feel much less special than they should, but they tend to overshadow the biomes around them, highlighting their lack of character and novelty.
7. Empty Oceans
I am definitely not of the opinion that oceans are too big. Oceans should be big. Enormous. They should surround our continents and landmasses entirely. But there should be something of value in them, rather than being just plain... empty. And I don't mean underwater content, although that would be pretty great as well. I mean they should be populated with tons of medium to large sized islands. There should be a reason for us to set sail in them. We should want to explore them, to discover what awesome kind of environments lay within them. In fact, it might be a good idea to limit jungles (or perhaps a new "tropical" biome) exclusively to the sea. We should be rewarded for setting sail!
8. Deserts Sprinkled With Oases
Not sure why, but Mojang seems to love to sprinkle water deposits all over deserts. I understand the draw of having the occasional oasis in the desert, but they're currently buckshot with the things. I think one of the main attributes that makes a desert a desert is the dryness. Perhaps Mojang felt that deserts were a little boring and bare and wanted to add something to liven them up, but I personally think that deserts should be rather bare. I still find them interesting. Give them some cacti, lizards, and hilly mounds of sand, and I think they're pretty good.
Another thought, what, besides housing the end-dragon, is the point of The End? There aren't really any interesting resources to get there that allow you to do cool new stuff like in the nether. Granted, it is way tougher to get to, but the rewards for visiting should be more interesting. Sorry if the last bit was a little off-topic.
Minecraft swamps can be wet, miserable sogs of mud and water, but they shouldn't look half-heartedly designed.
Generation itself could indeed use more work and I agree the bald mountains are an eyesore IMO. Also deserts should be exempt from random water pool generaton (see my terrain features idea below for an alternative). I disagree about the forests being too dense. I too think that they need a hills biome and that hills should have either an occasional tree here and there and/or occasionally small clumps of trees in depressions. I would like to see a badlands biome, that is mostly exposed rock and gravel, with occasional small patches of sand and dirt.
I would like to see biome specific natural terrain features that have a small chance to be placed into the terrain, much like villages and mineshafts are now. These features would be large and custom built. For example deserts might have a balancing rock/rock arch or an oasis, plains might have a 'devils tower', oceans might have a volcanic island, mountains might have a glacier, etc. These features would assist with visual navigation of the terrain and provide variety and interest.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
I can't agree with this enough. Everything about it is PERFECT. Especially the foggy ideas for the swamp.
I also think the swamp's mud should be a bit like soulsand. Ever tried walking in a swamp? Try living in one. It's loads of fun. (well, for me at least.) The swamp's been drained for the most part, making it more livable, but still, the slightest bit of water sets it off even on high ground. Your feet slip and you have to walk duck-footed for a while until you reach somewhere higher and dry. the water looks murky, which I think should be added to minecraft. The water is so dense you can't see much if anything through it unless left alone. So, in minecraft, I think it should get murky if you walk in it, and around the banks. The fog level is ridiculous here. It gets to the point that you expect herobrine to pop out and kill you. (I am talking about real life there.)
Plus, ghosts would make the game that much more realistic. Ever been on an investigation? You'll be a believer.
Anyway, backing what you said, Swamps should be foggier, filled with slightly slowing mud (not too bad though, since it'll make it completely dreadful) murky water, dense fog (even denser after the rain) and harmless ghosts as well as rare poltergeists.
There should be graveyards and burial grounds scattered around close to villages both ruined and working. I think that the ruined graveyards would be sweet if they worked like a stronghold. If you mined something (like a gravestone) there should be a zombie that spawns. If you kill it, it would die and no others will spawn until you mine something else. If you mine a double-marker, 2 zombies should pop up, etc. There should, however, be something hidden in the graves (like diamonds or something) that would make you want to explore the graveyards. Ghosts should inhabit the working graveyards to act like guardians.
I donno, just some ideas
But still, I really do agree with what you posted. Even that would be amazing
In addition to the ideas with the zombies popping out when gravestones are disturbed, there should be some biome-specific undead mobs. Ghosts in the swamps, zombies in standard forests, maybe wild-men in the jungle, mummies in the desert and some kind of frozen or abominable snowman zombie in taiga or tundra.
Also, in jungles there should be somewhat mayan-esque ruin structures. Just some extra thoughts : )
the sentence above is false.
This is the only part I disagree with. Swamps are probably my favorite biome. Graveyards are a neat idea but should be limited to either villages or village ruins. I believe that the true issue with the terrain generator is the plethora of caves. I've made mine home in a desert biome, and I can barely dig a 5x5 hole without hitting a new cave system. Players who enjoy building underground structures are severely hampered by this.
Completely agree with your point about too many caves. In my opinion I would prefer a cave to be a rare sighting instead of a common feature. Caves should be a good thing to find instead of a hindrance. This could be done pretty easily by making ores more abundant in and around cave systems. As of right now, branch mining is way too efficient for anyone to even consider going into a cave for resources other than the very beginning of a world. Caves, in my opinion, should be the more dangerous, but more rewarding alternative to branch mining.
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Ugly.