I was critiquing branch mining in another thread and thought I ought to just make my own thread specifically about the subject, and to point out that digging a straight line is superior to branch mining in terms of overall effectiveness.
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First of all, branch mining exposes fewer blocks than digging in a straight line for the same amount of effort made.
The reasons for this are 3 fold:
1) It doesn't matter if you miss blocks in one area as long as you have an equal chance of finding diamonds in another area. So you're not going to find *more* diamonds on average by making sure you don't miss diamonds in one area, when it is just as effective to look for diamonds in some other area.
2) With branch mines, you have closely spaced parallel tunnels and there is a risk of re-encountering an area you have previously excavated, this will therefore reduce the overall average number of blocks you newly expose per block you break.
3) With branch mines, at the junction between each branch and the main tunnel, you need to break blocks on a wall where the surfaces of as many as 4 blocks, which are adjacent to the blocks you're breaking, have already been exposed. This will slightly contribute further to an even lower ratio of exposed surfaces per broken block.
A 3-spaced branch mine is slightly more effective than a 2-space due to reason #2, above. A 4-space is even more effective. But an infinite space (straight line) mine is the best overall.
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Secondly, there is no advantage in way of travel distance with branch mines over straight lines. When people believe that branch mining confers a benefit in the way of reduced travel distances, they don't take into account the time needed to travel back up each branch after reaching its end.
OKAY... consider these scenarios...
Note: When counting the number of blocks exposed in each method, I didn't count the 4 blocks adjacent to the origin, because I considered them already exposed. In other words, I presume clearing the origin block was not part of the process.
A.) Consider this branch mine.
Note:
1) that 15 spaces of digging effort were made.
2) that 41 blocks were exposed during the digging, beyond the initial condition, and including the excavated blocks of the tunnel itself.
3) that if 1 return trip is made, 30 blocks need to be traversed in order to dig the mine and return to the origin. Remember: You have to count the distance you must travel to go back up each branch after reaching its end.
B.) Now consider this really long straight tunnel.
Note:
1) The same effort was expended building it. 15 spaces were dug.
2) 45 blocks were exposed beyond the initial conditions, and including the excavated blocks of the tunnel itself. That's 4 more blocks uncovered than the branch mine.
3) If you count the number of blocks that were traveled building the tunnel and returning to the origin, you will find that it was 30, which was the same distance we had to travel to build the branch mine and return to its origin.
i just think it takes the fun out of exploring everything..i prefer old fashioned min gin from cave to cave for this reason :smile.gif: but you do put in some good points
i do branch mining where i dig down then branch out in 3 diffrent paths that go seperate ways,
although its easy to get lost in, it, for me seems to get more resources. Plus, i don't like caves.
Edit:] what if you run into a lava pool when your digging straight down?
i do branch mining where i dig down then branch out in 3 diffrent paths that go seperate ways,
although its easy to get lost in, it, for me seems to get more resources. Plus, i don't like caves.
Edit:] what if you run into a lava pool when your digging straight down?
You can completely survive with 2 Fire Resistance I enchanted armors.
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Give a man a fish, and he'll be fed for a day.
Give a man a puffer fish, and he'll be fed for the rest of his life.
When you branch mine properly, you do at least 3-space, and you do _very long_ branches. Personally I branch 200 blocks out, three to the side, then 200 home if I need cobblestone. Coal deposits are sometimes seen twice (in and out), diamonds never. If I have plenty of cobble I do 300 or 400 shafts. The main branch has a railroad, so I get back and forth pretty quick. Gives a steady supply of gold, iron and dimonds, in fact I tend to forget moving stacks of diamonds along when I relocate. I have more ressources apart from cobblestone than I can use, so I think branch minig is pretty efficient.
I do branches because it is a great way to unstress. Nothing but you, your diamond pickaxe, and time to reflect on the day that passed. I guess it is a bit like fishing in that respect. Other people with different tempers might find it boring, so do whatever rocks your boat.
When you branch mine properly, you do at least 3-space, and you do _very long_ branches. Personally I branch 200 blocks out, three to the side, then 200 home if I need cobblestone. Coal deposits are sometimes seen twice (in and out), diamonds never. If I have plenty of cobble I do 300 or 400 shafts. The main branch has a railroad, so I get back and forth pretty quick. Gives a steady supply of gold, iron and dimonds, in fact I tend to forget moving stacks of diamonds along when I relocate. I have more ressources apart from cobblestone than I can use, so I think branch minig is pretty efficient.
I do branches because it is a great way to unstress. Nothing but you, your diamond pickaxe, and time to reflect on the day that passed. I guess it is a bit like fishing in that respect. Other people with different tempers might find it boring, so do whatever rocks your boat.
Well I find branch mining tedious, myself. Which is probably why I'm out to disprove its popular status as an effective mining strategy.
Also, it doesn't matter how long the branches are or how far they are spaced apart, the branch mine will never be as effective as digging a straight 2x1 tunnel, in terms of number of blocks exposed per number of blocks broken. Nor will it be superior in terms of travel distance (I'm pretty sure).
Another advantage of the straight line is that you don't have to plan it or make sure your branches are spaced properly (cuz there aren't any).
I start out with a tunnel that are 200 long with a 90 degree turn every 50 blocks. That should put me back where I started. Then I make tunnels crossing the 50x50 area and I dig them out back and forth. I usually end my digging fairly close to the shaft up to my base. I have very little "unproductive" travel.
There are also other, better tunnel patterns you can use. One popular pattern is to dig the tunnels in a spiral. The turns reduce the digging to block exposing ratio, but it results in less travel.
Personally, I'm not going for time efficiency and I even have my tunnels a lot closer to one another than absolutly needed. I also make tunnels at levels without diamonds and I create them at layers where there are lava. Just like my castle I want my mines to look goooood :tongue.gif:
Let's say your inventory is full and you need to return to your base. When you later return to mining, do you continue on the long tunnel or do you start a new one? :biggrin.gif:
Let's say your inventory is full and you need to return to your base. When you later return to mining, do you continue on the long tunnel or do you start a new one? :biggrin.gif:
I was just about to concede your point. But then I realized that if you're just digging a long straight tunnel, it is probably out of laziness. In which case there is no motivation to return to the very end of the tunnel to resume mining where you left off. you can just start a new tunnel in some other direction.
I believe that no matter where you stop in either the branch mine or the straight tunnel, the total distance traveled to dig the mine and return to the origin will be the same. Since there is (usually) no reason to return to the end of the straight tunnel after making a drop-off, it eliminates the disadvantage you would have if you were to travel the extra distance to get back there. The only scenario in which this wouldn't be true is when your inventory became full or your pick breaks before you had finished mining ores that have already been exposed. So I guess it is possible that you might save a very little bit of time traveling while branch mining. Though I don't think it is enough to cancel out its other disadvantages.
Edit: Then I realized you can only start a new straight line tunnel in so many directions (4) before you will have to do something that resembles branch mining an awful lot. Maybe branch mining is inevitable to a certain degree, but they should be spaced far apart anyway.
Edit: Then I realized you can only start a new straight line tunnel in so many directions (4) before you will have to do something that resembles branch mining an awful lot. Maybe branch mining is inevitable to a certain degree, but they should be spaced far apart anyway.
That's exactly why branch mining IS more efficient. It is the tightest possible selection that results in the blocks displayed. It is the inevitable conclusion.
Note: I don't branch mine either, I spelunk.
Your "E" shaped branchmining is also flawed. Good branch mining is fractal based, and you would be better off turning that E into an S shape, then when you want to go back home, you go to the top/bottom and just dig back through the blocks creating a straight line back home.
3 space branch mining is about 85% effective, due to deposits being more than 1 block. Staggered multi-level branch mining pushes that number to over 98%.
As for efficiency (blocks per dug block), yes, a straight line is more efficent, short term. Long term it will slowly devolve into a branch mine anyway, so this point is moot.
As for efficiency (blocks travelled per revealed block) whilst digging, straight line wins. Once you want to return home, a fractal or quad/binary tree pattern will always beat it.
1000 blocks is actually a faily long distance. The in game map is 1024 blocks high and wide. We are talking close to 3 minutes of walking. If you instead made a snake pattern of some sort you can eliminate those 3 minutes completely. The extra blocks you are mining in the turns will be totally worth it.
There will always be some walking or running, but if your tunnels come back on itself at one point you can reduce it to a minimum. The cost, if you can call it that, is the risk of running into the same resource vein twice, but the chance of that can also be reduced by having the brances far apart.
Complex patterns aren't really adviced though. Any need to count blocks slow you down. I personally use a big grid pattern where I make a 50x50 square area. In this case I count blocks, but when I'm mining inside the square I can quickly create multiple tunnels without any such concern because my access tunnel will tell me when to stop.
I mainly prefer it for the safety/time factor and the file space size decrease.
I do prefer looping my branches around rather than have a dead end. Less efficient in terms of block exposure but you end up right back in your trunk line each time after a mining run.
Thanks man, I never knew really what branch mining was, except digging tunnels and now I know its not as awesome as everybody says it is. I personally use X's mining method whatever that is called only with tunnels leading out to caves if I don't expose any beneath me. I like it because how organized it is.
Secondly, there is no advantage in way of travel distance with branch mines over straight lines. When people believe that branch mining confers a benefit in the way of reduced travel distances, they don't take into account the time needed to travel back up each branch after reaching its end.
I'm not going to try to argue your entire post, it's just not worth it, but I will dispute this quote.
That would only be true for people too ignorant to make an actual efficient branch mine.
When I make a branch mine, I dig out a main tunnel 112 blocks long. At the end of that Main Tunnel I dig a perpendicular Branch 101 blocks long. I then dig a Secondary Main Tunnel parallel to the Main Tunnel, obviously heading back towards the direction of them start of the Main Tunnel. I then dig another 100 block Branch back to the Main Tunnel.
What this allows me to do is dig a branch, skip 3 blocks and come back digging a new branch.
There is no wasted time walking back and forth in already dug out tunnels.
Also, in my main tunnel I place chests in the floor every other branch. This allows me to deposit everything I acquired over the two branches, thus freeing up room in my inventory and saving any valuable ores from getting lost if something unfortunate happens, which never has to me. Then when I am done mining for whatever period of time I spend mining I come back and collect all the valuable ores leaving the cobble, dirt, gravel and flint in those chests.
So I waste almost no time dropping off ores or walking up already dug tunnels, outside of the travel time spent in the main tunnel.
I can then extend that mine in the opposite direction from the branches just as easily and continue on.
Trying to get games written for windows to work on a Linux machine is like trying to put a diaper on an incontinent buffalo. Sure, you might get it all done, but you'll certainly be left with a huge mess, and it's very time consuming.
2. Straight line mine of similar size were 2000 blocks long. To mine further you have to walk 2000 blocks! (and so much map uncovered and the save file grows larger).
No, you just either make a right angle, or stop mining for a while, then continue your mine... in the opposite direction. You don't need to continue your mine at the end.
Indeed, I've been wondering why people branchmine at all, unless the just like creating an impressive underground archticture, or they have some restriction that encourages staying in a confined area (like when you have a 16x16 plot of protected land on a server).
Not only are straight lines easier to make use of, they also confer a much better chance of encountering abandoned mines, large underground caves, ravines, dungeons, strongholds, etc.
Someone please explain a good reason to branch mine other than less walking distance. In fact, said long tunnel can be a useful means of transportation, if one is so inclined as to place a rail system.
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First of all, branch mining exposes fewer blocks than digging in a straight line for the same amount of effort made.
The reasons for this are 3 fold:
1) It doesn't matter if you miss blocks in one area as long as you have an equal chance of finding diamonds in another area. So you're not going to find *more* diamonds on average by making sure you don't miss diamonds in one area, when it is just as effective to look for diamonds in some other area.
2) With branch mines, you have closely spaced parallel tunnels and there is a risk of re-encountering an area you have previously excavated, this will therefore reduce the overall average number of blocks you newly expose per block you break.
3) With branch mines, at the junction between each branch and the main tunnel, you need to break blocks on a wall where the surfaces of as many as 4 blocks, which are adjacent to the blocks you're breaking, have already been exposed. This will slightly contribute further to an even lower ratio of exposed surfaces per broken block.
A 3-spaced branch mine is slightly more effective than a 2-space due to reason #2, above. A 4-space is even more effective. But an infinite space (straight line) mine is the best overall.
-------------------
Secondly, there is no advantage in way of travel distance with branch mines over straight lines. When people believe that branch mining confers a benefit in the way of reduced travel distances, they don't take into account the time needed to travel back up each branch after reaching its end.
OKAY... consider these scenarios...
Note: When counting the number of blocks exposed in each method, I didn't count the 4 blocks adjacent to the origin, because I considered them already exposed. In other words, I presume clearing the origin block was not part of the process.
A.) Consider this branch mine.
Note:
1) that 15 spaces of digging effort were made.
2) that 41 blocks were exposed during the digging, beyond the initial condition, and including the excavated blocks of the tunnel itself.
3) that if 1 return trip is made, 30 blocks need to be traversed in order to dig the mine and return to the origin. Remember: You have to count the distance you must travel to go back up each branch after reaching its end.
B.) Now consider this really long straight tunnel.
Note:
1) The same effort was expended building it. 15 spaces were dug.
2) 45 blocks were exposed beyond the initial conditions, and including the excavated blocks of the tunnel itself. That's 4 more blocks uncovered than the branch mine.
3) If you count the number of blocks that were traveled building the tunnel and returning to the origin, you will find that it was 30, which was the same distance we had to travel to build the branch mine and return to its origin.
Is there anything important that I've missed?
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You expose 5 blocks per 1 block destroyed.
Give a man a fish, and he'll be fed for a day.
although its easy to get lost in, it, for me seems to get more resources. Plus, i don't like caves.
Edit:] what if you run into a lava pool when your digging straight down?
Free + Crabs + Ability to trample/suffocate opponents in Cortex Command = Free Bombs.
I haven't checked, but I think it would at least cancel out the advantage you get from digging straight down.
Also, Lava.
You can completely survive with 2 Fire Resistance I enchanted armors.
Give a man a fish, and he'll be fed for a day.
I do branches because it is a great way to unstress. Nothing but you, your diamond pickaxe, and time to reflect on the day that passed. I guess it is a bit like fishing in that respect. Other people with different tempers might find it boring, so do whatever rocks your boat.
Also, it doesn't matter how long the branches are or how far they are spaced apart, the branch mine will never be as effective as digging a straight 2x1 tunnel, in terms of number of blocks exposed per number of blocks broken. Nor will it be superior in terms of travel distance (I'm pretty sure).
Another advantage of the straight line is that you don't have to plan it or make sure your branches are spaced properly (cuz there aren't any).
I start out with a tunnel that are 200 long with a 90 degree turn every 50 blocks. That should put me back where I started. Then I make tunnels crossing the 50x50 area and I dig them out back and forth. I usually end my digging fairly close to the shaft up to my base. I have very little "unproductive" travel.
There are also other, better tunnel patterns you can use. One popular pattern is to dig the tunnels in a spiral. The turns reduce the digging to block exposing ratio, but it results in less travel.
Personally, I'm not going for time efficiency and I even have my tunnels a lot closer to one another than absolutly needed. I also make tunnels at levels without diamonds and I create them at layers where there are lava. Just like my castle I want my mines to look goooood :tongue.gif:
I believe that no matter where you stop in either the branch mine or the straight tunnel, the total distance traveled to dig the mine and return to the origin will be the same. Since there is (usually) no reason to return to the end of the straight tunnel after making a drop-off, it eliminates the disadvantage you would have if you were to travel the extra distance to get back there. The only scenario in which this wouldn't be true is when your inventory became full or your pick breaks before you had finished mining ores that have already been exposed. So I guess it is possible that you might save a very little bit of time traveling while branch mining. Though I don't think it is enough to cancel out its other disadvantages.
Edit: Then I realized you can only start a new straight line tunnel in so many directions (4) before you will have to do something that resembles branch mining an awful lot. Maybe branch mining is inevitable to a certain degree, but they should be spaced far apart anyway.
Damn, two concessions in one post.
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Retired StaffThat's exactly why branch mining IS more efficient. It is the tightest possible selection that results in the blocks displayed. It is the inevitable conclusion.
Note: I don't branch mine either, I spelunk.
Your "E" shaped branchmining is also flawed. Good branch mining is fractal based, and you would be better off turning that E into an S shape, then when you want to go back home, you go to the top/bottom and just dig back through the blocks creating a straight line back home.
3 space branch mining is about 85% effective, due to deposits being more than 1 block. Staggered multi-level branch mining pushes that number to over 98%.
As for efficiency (blocks per dug block), yes, a straight line is more efficent, short term. Long term it will slowly devolve into a branch mine anyway, so this point is moot.
As for efficiency (blocks travelled per revealed block) whilst digging, straight line wins. Once you want to return home, a fractal or quad/binary tree pattern will always beat it.
There will always be some walking or running, but if your tunnels come back on itself at one point you can reduce it to a minimum. The cost, if you can call it that, is the risk of running into the same resource vein twice, but the chance of that can also be reduced by having the brances far apart.
Complex patterns aren't really adviced though. Any need to count blocks slow you down. I personally use a big grid pattern where I make a 50x50 square area. In this case I count blocks, but when I'm mining inside the square I can quickly create multiple tunnels without any such concern because my access tunnel will tell me when to stop.
I do prefer looping my branches around rather than have a dead end. Less efficient in terms of block exposure but you end up right back in your trunk line each time after a mining run.
I'm not going to try to argue your entire post, it's just not worth it, but I will dispute this quote.
That would only be true for people too ignorant to make an actual efficient branch mine.
When I make a branch mine, I dig out a main tunnel 112 blocks long. At the end of that Main Tunnel I dig a perpendicular Branch 101 blocks long. I then dig a Secondary Main Tunnel parallel to the Main Tunnel, obviously heading back towards the direction of them start of the Main Tunnel. I then dig another 100 block Branch back to the Main Tunnel.
What this allows me to do is dig a branch, skip 3 blocks and come back digging a new branch.
There is no wasted time walking back and forth in already dug out tunnels.
Also, in my main tunnel I place chests in the floor every other branch. This allows me to deposit everything I acquired over the two branches, thus freeing up room in my inventory and saving any valuable ores from getting lost if something unfortunate happens, which never has to me. Then when I am done mining for whatever period of time I spend mining I come back and collect all the valuable ores leaving the cobble, dirt, gravel and flint in those chests.
So I waste almost no time dropping off ores or walking up already dug tunnels, outside of the travel time spent in the main tunnel.
I can then extend that mine in the opposite direction from the branches just as easily and continue on.
No, you just either make a right angle, or stop mining for a while, then continue your mine... in the opposite direction. You don't need to continue your mine at the end.
Indeed, I've been wondering why people branchmine at all, unless the just like creating an impressive underground archticture, or they have some restriction that encourages staying in a confined area (like when you have a 16x16 plot of protected land on a server).
Not only are straight lines easier to make use of, they also confer a much better chance of encountering abandoned mines, large underground caves, ravines, dungeons, strongholds, etc.
Someone please explain a good reason to branch mine other than less walking distance. In fact, said long tunnel can be a useful means of transportation, if one is so inclined as to place a rail system.