One thing I noticed in ALL releases since at least 1.3 is that the number of new bugs was always bigger than the number of bugfixes, even when the release didn't add anything new to the game.
I KNOW Minecraft it's still in beta, and bugs are expeected, but as a developer myself, I can't stand this kind of thing. I mean, there were times when an already fixed bug returned!!!
My question is: there's absolutely no test coverave in the code at all? Because if it did, all they would need to to would be run the tests and see where something stopped working correctly. That can't be too hard, even with Java (I already wrote tests for Java and they aren't that difficult to make).
Sorry if this is just another winning thread (I know it is), but I just expect to someone from the dev team to read this and think about it. But anyway, great game, keep it up the hard work
If they took the time to test (and correct) each bug in every update, you'd have the "NOTCH! UR 2 SLOW MORAN!!!" crowd up in arms. If they don't, then you have other people up in arms over the bugs (which generally are fixed in a day or two, pending on their importance).
Essentially, it is best (at least in my opinion) to have a mixture of testing the updates, while trying to get them out as fast as possible.
Also, is's not very likely that they're going to find all the bugs in any given update, but the community will find all of them.
Sorry if this is just another winning thread (I know it is), but I just expect to someone from the dev team to read this and think about it. But anyway, great game, keep it up the hard work
nice typo, but i have to disagree, the testers were probably looking for obscure stuff, they were testing, probably on peaceful, trying to see if anything new didnt work. why would they bother to check if dying made your weapons break? it would seem that that wouldnt happen, so why test for it.
My question is: there's absolutely no test coverave in the code at all?
There obviously is testing going on, since you're participating in it. The game's in beta testing right now. Since the game isn't released until 11/11/11, if you're playing it today, it's proof positive that there is indeed testing going on, and you're one of the testers. Have fun! :smile.gif:
As for testing in the code, what you can test for automatically with code is extremely limited. Barring true AI, there will never be an automated way to catch all bugs. The best and most effective way to test a program is to put it into the hands of a large number of users.
It's just disappointing that such obvious critical bugs get shipped out. I don't expect every bug to be ironed out on release of a patch, but this is just ridiculous.
I've had the game crash on me 6 times, it happened when I opened a hatch and/or looked at the sky. I think it's been fixed with 1.6.3. or 1.6.4.
But yeah I have to agree, this release is not his best. No more occlusion culling(adv OpenGL), I agree it was buggy with a little bit of artifacts, but it didn't make the game unplayable or made it crash (well ,for me anyways).
I also used optifog, which pretty much fixed Occlusion culling, but now the mod creator wants the next versions to be without occlusion culling. Either due to the fact he got an old Intel 915 equipped laptop or because notch totally removed it.
It's just disappointing that such obvious critical bugs get shipped out. I don't expect every bug to be ironed out on release of a patch, but this is just ridiculous.
It's a hell of a lot easier to just give the new release to us so that we can find the bugs a lot quicker.
All you have to do is not update, if you really care.
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GENERATION 20: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
It's a hell of a lot easier to just give the new release to us so that we can find the bugs a lot quicker.
All you have to do is not update, if you really care.
I play online. If I want to play, I have to update.
And I'm not sure how it's easier to just push out an update that includes game breaking bugs, which you then have to rush and fix which ends up creating even more bugs in the process. And now here we are with critical bugs still present.
I play online. If I want to play, I have to update.
And I'm not sure how it's easier to just push out an update that includes game breaking bugs, which you then have to rush and fix which ends up creating even more bugs in the process. And now here we are with critical bugs still present.
The same way that it is for any other game that has a Beta. You know how much stuff would be broken in the newer CoD games or other games if they didn't do betas?
What do you think will get bugs found faster, the paid testers (probably just 1-2 people for Mojang) doing as many matches as they can or 750,000 players doing a bunch of different stuff at the same time and reporting any glitches they find?
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Some of the bugs (eg. the Weapon drop, CHest and Furnace ones) are inexcusably too obvious to test, others such as the CPU intensive stuff?
Well, not everyone gets that...I don't, for one, I got an increase in performance.
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Notch on his twitter: "bugs that feel wrong get fixed"
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
What in the world is the point of such complaint threads.
Bugs happen. Even to Notch. It's reality.
He's not making them on purpose either.
It only makes it seem that some will never ever be satisfied, and just have a deeply seated need to whine and complain. Waah patches take too long.. waah patches too buggy.. waaah Notch too lazy.. waaah Notch bad decisions.
Some of you seem to have long since forgotten this is a beta test, despite the fact you paid to participate. You are just getting early access. It's a beta test. There are going to be bugs. It's unreasonable to expect a glitch to last forever. It's unreasonable to expect perfect, bug free updates. It's pointless to complain about unintentional bugs.
It just makes people seem like a bunch of whiners with a high sense of entitlement.
nice typo, but i have to disagree, the testers were probably looking for obscure stuff, they were testing, probably on peaceful, trying to see if anything new didnt work. why would they bother to check if dying made your weapons break? it would seem that that wouldnt happen, so why test for it.
LOL didn't notice the typo.
Anyway, I know code testing is limited for this kind of coding, but my point is that there are many bugs that could have been avoided very easily using the right testing metodology, such as using unit tests (non programmeers probably won't understant that last thing, but I'm not talking about tests as "play the game and see what happens", it's more like "run this function and see the value that it returns" eg. "check how many uses some tool has, kill the player and check it again").
As to those bugs such as items not being ejected properly from a block when another block is placed over them, I may agree that we testers should identify this.
I imagine Minecraft is too complicated to QA with random playtesting. There must be an incredible number of things to check. It needs either a test suite or a manual checklist, and I think the latter would be so huge it would drive the testers crazy. I might try suggesting this on GetSatisfaction.
it just seems like there must be some kind of disconnect between internal testing and development schedules. if you have a decent QA person, you should be able to run automated unit tests like rod_igo mentioned to handle regression testing while having active use testing to supplement existing atps. all of this is dependent on having your developers regularly put their code into a source control repository though so that the testing can be constantly running instead of jamming it in at the last minute and missing tons and tons of critical bugs.
every update brings a lot of cool things, but the handling of testing, even for beta, feels like this game is basically being developed at a really long game jam.
edit:
But with a game as big as minecraft, why should you check code that worked before the update when the extra code you added seemingly had nothing to do with it.
So for example, you add hatches. What would be the point in testing weapon durability after you drop and pick it up after adding in that code. There is no reason to suspect that anything about it has changed so obviously why should you test it when you can test what you actually added and check everything operates as it should.
because issues can happen everywhere, which is why real software companies do intensive regression testing all the time.
I KNOW Minecraft it's still in beta, and bugs are expeected, but as a developer myself, I can't stand this kind of thing. I mean, there were times when an already fixed bug returned!!!
My question is: there's absolutely no test coverave in the code at all? Because if it did, all they would need to to would be run the tests and see where something stopped working correctly. That can't be too hard, even with Java (I already wrote tests for Java and they aren't that difficult to make).
Sorry if this is just another winning thread (I know it is), but I just expect to someone from the dev team to read this and think about it. But anyway, great game, keep it up the hard work
If they took the time to test (and correct) each bug in every update, you'd have the "NOTCH! UR 2 SLOW MORAN!!!" crowd up in arms. If they don't, then you have other people up in arms over the bugs (which generally are fixed in a day or two, pending on their importance).
Essentially, it is best (at least in my opinion) to have a mixture of testing the updates, while trying to get them out as fast as possible.
Also, is's not very likely that they're going to find all the bugs in any given update, but the community will find all of them.
Just my 2 cents...
nice typo, but i have to disagree, the testers were probably looking for obscure stuff, they were testing, probably on peaceful, trying to see if anything new didnt work. why would they bother to check if dying made your weapons break? it would seem that that wouldnt happen, so why test for it.
There obviously is testing going on, since you're participating in it. The game's in beta testing right now. Since the game isn't released until 11/11/11, if you're playing it today, it's proof positive that there is indeed testing going on, and you're one of the testers. Have fun! :smile.gif:
As for testing in the code, what you can test for automatically with code is extremely limited. Barring true AI, there will never be an automated way to catch all bugs. The best and most effective way to test a program is to put it into the hands of a large number of users.
But yeah I have to agree, this release is not his best. No more occlusion culling(adv OpenGL), I agree it was buggy with a little bit of artifacts, but it didn't make the game unplayable or made it crash (well ,for me anyways).
I also used optifog, which pretty much fixed Occlusion culling, but now the mod creator wants the next versions to be without occlusion culling. Either due to the fact he got an old Intel 915 equipped laptop or because notch totally removed it.
It's a hell of a lot easier to just give the new release to us so that we can find the bugs a lot quicker.
All you have to do is not update, if you really care.
I play online. If I want to play, I have to update.
And I'm not sure how it's easier to just push out an update that includes game breaking bugs, which you then have to rush and fix which ends up creating even more bugs in the process. And now here we are with critical bugs still present.
Not Troll actually read.
The same way that it is for any other game that has a Beta. You know how much stuff would be broken in the newer CoD games or other games if they didn't do betas?
What do you think will get bugs found faster, the paid testers (probably just 1-2 people for Mojang) doing as many matches as they can or 750,000 players doing a bunch of different stuff at the same time and reporting any glitches they find?
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Well, not everyone gets that...I don't, for one, I got an increase in performance.
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
Bugs happen. Even to Notch. It's reality.
He's not making them on purpose either.
It only makes it seem that some will never ever be satisfied, and just have a deeply seated need to whine and complain. Waah patches take too long.. waah patches too buggy.. waaah Notch too lazy.. waaah Notch bad decisions.
Some of you seem to have long since forgotten this is a beta test, despite the fact you paid to participate. You are just getting early access. It's a beta test. There are going to be bugs. It's unreasonable to expect a glitch to last forever. It's unreasonable to expect perfect, bug free updates. It's pointless to complain about unintentional bugs.
It just makes people seem like a bunch of whiners with a high sense of entitlement.
LOL didn't notice the typo.
Anyway, I know code testing is limited for this kind of coding, but my point is that there are many bugs that could have been avoided very easily using the right testing metodology, such as using unit tests (non programmeers probably won't understant that last thing, but I'm not talking about tests as "play the game and see what happens", it's more like "run this function and see the value that it returns" eg. "check how many uses some tool has, kill the player and check it again").
As to those bugs such as items not being ejected properly from a block when another block is placed over them, I may agree that we testers should identify this.
every update brings a lot of cool things, but the handling of testing, even for beta, feels like this game is basically being developed at a really long game jam.
edit:
because issues can happen everywhere, which is why real software companies do intensive regression testing all the time.