To summarize this post, the system is changing from a glitch to a well functioning product, everybody needs to accept it and take off their nostalgia goggles, before its eventually changed to where old boosters no longer work. It may be 1.6, it may be 3.0.
This. Particularly the last bit. I have worked with glitch boosters, not the more "advanced" once, like the C-Booster and the like, but enough to admit that I don't really prefer them. These new blocks aren't perfect, but they work, and they make minecart systems more accessible to new players. My initial experiences with minecarts would have been far less frustrating if this had been in Beta 1.2_01.
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"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength, and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend." -Stephen King
1) Booster tracks either boost or brake. There is no 'middle ground', where the track acts like a normal track, neither boosting nor braking. Minecarts MK.II has boosters that act as normal tracks when off.
2) Detector tracks don't differentiate between empty and full carts. (A possible crafting recipe exists to make an empty cart detector with a wood plate instead of stone. So, why wasn't this done for this update???) Minecarts MK.II has empty and full cart detectors.
3) Many cart stations use a stone plate to 'hold' an empty cart until a player enters it, at which time the stone plate triggers a booster and sends off the cart. With the current system this is impossible. Ignoring the obvious lack of separate empty/full cart detectors, If the cart is on a detector track (to be detected), it cannot be on a booster track (to be boosted). Minecarts MK.II used a separate Stop block that stops carts, not on top of itself, but before they get onto it, meaning a cart could be stopped while sitting on a booster track. Turn off the Stop block, turn on the booster, and away you go.
4) So called 'Pez dispensers', where minecarts go up a ramp and fall into a stack, and have the bottom one boosted away, are not possible- the carts stack vertically and fall straight down, thus the current boosters will not boost them (since they have no initial speed vector). Minecarts MK.II boosters are directional, so they will boost even a cart falling vertically onto them.
5) etc, etc, etc
I do understand that the 'old' 'glitch' minecart physics still work, that that allows for workarounds for some of these issues. I can still use a 'glitch' booster to pull a cart over a normal stone pressure plate to see if it has a player in it. But what's the point of the detector track, then, if I have to everything the old way anyway??
There is also a partial workaround for #3- put the Boost/brake track on an angle. When off, the cart stops on the ramp. Get in, hit a button. Boost track powers on, releasing cart, which starts to move/roll due to gravity. Booster then accelerates already moving cart.
Don't get me wrong. Something is better than nothing. But to see such a partial, broken system implemented, when a fully thought-out and working system is just sitting there....
...snip... A classical booster will send you maybe an additional 150 blocks or so than your current momentum would have, for that 10-11 iron, provided you were already at full speed. ...snip...
I don't know what type of boosters you used prior to the 1.5 update, but I get 600-800 block boosts from my stable setups with 12 track pieces and 2 carts. How much gold + redstone would it take you to get that amount of boost from the new system?
I'm not saying that I don't like the powered rails and detectors (I absolutely love them), but the material cost for the amount of distance achieved doesn't mean that I will be abandoning my current system for powered rails anytime soon.
It looks like once the glitched boosters are gone, unless gold becomes more common, this game gains it's first "grind" if you wish to achieve any sort of distance using minecarts.
OP has done nothing but declare his ignorance in all things related to minecarts.
Any person who uses the C-Booster, Smart Booster (or any other booster for that matter) frequently and has a good understanding of how minecarts, boosters, and tracks work will see the string of falsehoods and ignorant observations in that post.
You are just an amateur giving an uninformed opinion about a 2 practically useless new items whose functions were already possible in the game. Not only are the conventional substitutes for these items already in the game, but they function far better.
To summarize this post, the system is changing from a glitch to a well functioning product, everybody needs to accept it and take off their nostalgia goggles, before its eventually changed to where old boosters no longer work. It may be 1.6, it may be 3.0.
No. It's switching from a well functioning glitch to a crap product that needs to be desperately improved. And this has nothing to do with nostalgia (do you even know what the word means?), but facts. Glitch boosters are inexpensive and push you for great distances no matter the elevation. Gold boosters are expensive and barely push you 12 blocks on level ground and 3 blocks going up.
Let's think about it this way. IT'S IN BETA! Beta is a pre-finished product! Also, I have a problem with the glitch boosters. When people find an annoying glitch, that impacts them in a negative way, they complain. When they find a glitch that they can exploit, they want to keep it. What is wrong with this picture?
Everything can be 100% automated and controlled by levers you pull. Its so elegant
Imagine a line with your worksite on one end and a warehouse on the other. You push a button, and up to 144 blocks away a parked chest cart sitting peacefully in your house next to the normal chests is now on its way. In less than a minute, an extra set of tools and a place to dump your inventory full of cobble has arrived. Push another button and off it goes, back to its proper spot. If you were slick with redstone you could have a ton of different ends and routing combinations and select which chest cart or which train station you want to travel to with nothing more than a button or a lever.
Sure, you could KIND OF do this with the old glitches, but it took 1) a learning curve 2) a lot of space for some ludicrous perpetual motion machine thing 3) a lot of luck that it would actually work. Half the time you'd be going around resetting everything. The automated rail networks were amazing but I remember the junctions being housed in enormous structures full of random ups and downs to boosters and a rats nest of circuits, not worth the time unless it was for the sake of building a megaproject.
Also I am glad that maybe now riding in carts will be pleasant and not jerky and glitchy.
I'm quite fond of the new boosters also. On my 1400m line I have about 100 boosters set up. It takes a little bit to reach full speed, but it works well. Also, if I get out at any point of the track, it is a short walk to the next booster, and I'm off again. I can't tell you how many times I've had to walk my long track because a cart on the track stopped me. The only real improvement I think is needed is for chest carts to be boosted the same way as a cart with a player in it.
Unfortunately, I have discovered that auto systems like the one above are not possible because the cart needs a firection force to be boosted. If it is sitting on a gold booster and the booster is powered it will just sit because it must be moving to determine which way it will boost. :sad.gif: This will only become possible if future pistons can push minecarts.
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You can either have it break on a slope, and powering it up afterward would cause it to continue. You can also place a block behind a booster, which will determine the direction for the booster, and send you off.
Unfortunately, I have discovered that auto systems like the one above are not possible because the cart needs a firection force to be boosted. If it is sitting on a gold booster and the booster is powered it will just sit because it must be moving to determine which way it will boost. :sad.gif: This will only become possible if future pistons can push minecarts.
Stub ends, where you have a powered track, and a block after it(must be a full block) will launch the cart.
Also is gold really that rare? I have a good supply of it from mining diamonds and lapiz on similar levels as it is found. I
You can either have it break on a slope, and powering it up afterward would cause it to continue. You can also place a block behind a booster, which will determine the direction for the booster, and send you off.
No offense but I don't think you've ever experimented enough with the old railway system before posting this...
First off, properly made boosters can send you infinitely and are very reliable. Slowing down is as easy as setting up a pressure plate in the middle of the track. How do you speed up again? That pressure plate is wired to Redstone that sends a booster cart to propel you infinitely once more.
Secondly all you need to create the old fashioned boosters is iron and wood. In the time it would take you to find enough gold to match the efficiency and power of the old boosters you could of created a massive railway system using the older method.
What basis do you have for saying that?
I have been using minecart systems for nearly a year now, and have used probably 10 or more types of boosters. And I am familiar with the system you describe, with plate to stop the cart, and a button to send another from an infinite loop to restart it. I used it a month ago, actually, to setup secondary stations from the grand-central hub I built on our server.
The thing is, if you are honest with yourself, you will certainly have to admit that particular system of sending a cart from an infinite loop is grossly inferior. It is true that it does give a very powerful boost of hundreds of blocks, but it is quite costly. It requires 2 or more carts to work well, and it require great knowledge of track-quirks to setup properly, and a ton of extra carts and space. And on top of all that, it is SO easy to damage or jam. If a single broken block drops onto one of the tracks, it will stop the carts and jam the machine. If a mob gets in there, it can get fouled up as well. And on top of all this, the system will glitch out on its own with no explanation, even being sealed in glass, and the carts will freak out. And the system changes and breaks in some different way with every update. And on top of all that, there are a million ways for people to mess up the system, or to grief it.
Are you really suggesting that all that space, all that iron, all the exerptise it requires to setup, and all the time it takes to reset when it breaks down a million times, is really superior a few boosters conencted to a switch, that literally takes up no space, costs no iron, has no moving parts to jam, and is easy to fix if griefed, is not better?
Believe me friend, I am not speaking from a perspective of ignorance of these at all. I am speaking from the frustration of being forced to use them and forced to fix them for months to make stations work.
You can either have it break on a slope, and powering it up afterward would cause it to continue. You can also place a block behind a booster, which will determine the direction for the booster, and send you off.
Do this for me then... using no glitch boosters, make a station that will stop a cart when it arrives, let the player get out, then get back in and get boosted in the same direction it was originally traveling.
I understand that you can stop it on on incline to achieve this, but how much of a pita is it going to be resetting that cart every time you exit when it gets bumped off the track due to player collision? Not only that, but how aesthetically pleasing will your stations look with angled slopes coming in and out?
Are you actually arguing that? You give me the simple answer yourself. It is pretty damn simple, actually. And it takes NO EXTRA SPACE- it is on the track itself. And if it falls off... you place it back on, with a right click, lol.
And you are saying a downslope is unsightly, yet the old system to start from a stationary position, where a giant beast full of 30 pieces of track, 2 carts, and a nest of redstone, which takes up a hundred of blocks of cubic space, and is a pain to fix when it glitches out or jams, is less unsightly?
as of lately I have yet to see someone whining about this particular update. I dare you to send me to at least 2 thread with this "Whining" you are talking about.
No. It's switching from a well functioning glitch to a crap product that needs to be desperately improved. And this has nothing to do with nostalgia (do you even know what the word means?), but facts. Glitch boosters are inexpensive and push you for great distances no matter the elevation. Gold boosters are expensive and barely push you 12 blocks on level ground and 3 blocks going up.
Looking back at what things were, you're all trying to relive those days and acting like this will never work. Try experimenting extensively before you start blabbing and posting rant-esque **** about a glitch that was never meant to be should stay in the game. If you're going maximum speed, they'll definitely push you 32 blocks. True that they suck horsedick going uphill, I'm not even going to deny that. The fact is that they reset your speed when you run over one, which makes going up hard.
as of lately I have yet to see someone whining about this particular update. I dare you to send me to at least 2 thread with this "Whining" you are talking about.
You must be blind. Open your eyes before you think you are calling someone else out.
Do this for me then... using no glitch boosters, make a station that will stop a cart when it arrives, let the player get out, then get back in and get boosted in the same direction it was originally traveling.
that's too easy
the station is on a branch, and the track ends on a powered rail with a block after it so the cart goes again in reverse when power is applied(the branch is a wye shape and the cart goes back on the main line in the correct direction, without any changing switch orientation needed if you plan it right).
It is also easily to make this automatic so a cart would stop at each station by itself even if unoccupied by a rider capable of pushing a button trackside., there would be a detector rail you hit immediately before the dead end, that sends a pulse through a bunch of delayers which after many seconds reaches the normally unpowered rail at the end launching the cart. You could make it long enough to give someone a chance to board, and put note blocks in the chain of delayers to act as chimes for when a cart first arrives and then leaves, just like on a real transit system.
Also like a real life modern subway such as the Singapore MRT or the people movers at many big airports like Atlanta, you could try platform screens where an iron door opens to let you reach the cart but is otherwise closed, preventing mobs from getting on the tracks in an otherwise open-air elevated station you didn't want to close in.
Are you actually arguing that? You give me the simple answer yourself. It is pretty damn simple, actually. And it takes NO EXTRA SPACE- it is on the track itself. And if it falls off... you place it back on, with a right click, lol.
And you are saying a downslope is unsightly, yet the old system to start from a stationary position, where a giant beast full of 30 pieces of track, 2 carts, and a nest of redstone, which takes up a hundred of blocks of cubic space, and is a pain to fix when it glitches out or jams, is less unsightly?
I am with you on the new system being full of promises, but that I have to rectify. The "giant beast" can be well hidden and create a really cool station nonetheless. Fully automated, and rarely glitches, apart from the boosters needing a push once in a while.
I think there is no need to go to such length to convince others the new system is a nice change. Please, don't trash the old like that. It had it's advantages, and the new one does too.
I don't get that need to convince people not on the merits of the new, but on the flaws of the old.
This. Particularly the last bit. I have worked with glitch boosters, not the more "advanced" once, like the C-Booster and the like, but enough to admit that I don't really prefer them. These new blocks aren't perfect, but they work, and they make minecart systems more accessible to new players. My initial experiences with minecarts would have been far less frustrating if this had been in Beta 1.2_01.
1) Booster tracks either boost or brake. There is no 'middle ground', where the track acts like a normal track, neither boosting nor braking. Minecarts MK.II has boosters that act as normal tracks when off.
2) Detector tracks don't differentiate between empty and full carts. (A possible crafting recipe exists to make an empty cart detector with a wood plate instead of stone. So, why wasn't this done for this update???) Minecarts MK.II has empty and full cart detectors.
3) Many cart stations use a stone plate to 'hold' an empty cart until a player enters it, at which time the stone plate triggers a booster and sends off the cart. With the current system this is impossible. Ignoring the obvious lack of separate empty/full cart detectors, If the cart is on a detector track (to be detected), it cannot be on a booster track (to be boosted). Minecarts MK.II used a separate Stop block that stops carts, not on top of itself, but before they get onto it, meaning a cart could be stopped while sitting on a booster track. Turn off the Stop block, turn on the booster, and away you go.
4) So called 'Pez dispensers', where minecarts go up a ramp and fall into a stack, and have the bottom one boosted away, are not possible- the carts stack vertically and fall straight down, thus the current boosters will not boost them (since they have no initial speed vector). Minecarts MK.II boosters are directional, so they will boost even a cart falling vertically onto them.
5) etc, etc, etc
I do understand that the 'old' 'glitch' minecart physics still work, that that allows for workarounds for some of these issues. I can still use a 'glitch' booster to pull a cart over a normal stone pressure plate to see if it has a player in it. But what's the point of the detector track, then, if I have to everything the old way anyway??
There is also a partial workaround for #3- put the Boost/brake track on an angle. When off, the cart stops on the ramp. Get in, hit a button. Boost track powers on, releasing cart, which starts to move/roll due to gravity. Booster then accelerates already moving cart.
Don't get me wrong. Something is better than nothing. But to see such a partial, broken system implemented, when a fully thought-out and working system is just sitting there....
I don't know what type of boosters you used prior to the 1.5 update, but I get 600-800 block boosts from my stable setups with 12 track pieces and 2 carts. How much gold + redstone would it take you to get that amount of boost from the new system?
I'm not saying that I don't like the powered rails and detectors (I absolutely love them), but the material cost for the amount of distance achieved doesn't mean that I will be abandoning my current system for powered rails anytime soon.
It looks like once the glitched boosters are gone, unless gold becomes more common, this game gains it's first "grind" if you wish to achieve any sort of distance using minecarts.
No. It's switching from a well functioning glitch to a crap product that needs to be desperately improved. And this has nothing to do with nostalgia (do you even know what the word means?), but facts. Glitch boosters are inexpensive and push you for great distances no matter the elevation. Gold boosters are expensive and barely push you 12 blocks on level ground and 3 blocks going up.
Imagine a line with your worksite on one end and a warehouse on the other. You push a button, and up to 144 blocks away a parked chest cart sitting peacefully in your house next to the normal chests is now on its way. In less than a minute, an extra set of tools and a place to dump your inventory full of cobble has arrived. Push another button and off it goes, back to its proper spot. If you were slick with redstone you could have a ton of different ends and routing combinations and select which chest cart or which train station you want to travel to with nothing more than a button or a lever.
Sure, you could KIND OF do this with the old glitches, but it took 1) a learning curve 2) a lot of space for some ludicrous perpetual motion machine thing 3) a lot of luck that it would actually work. Half the time you'd be going around resetting everything. The automated rail networks were amazing but I remember the junctions being housed in enormous structures full of random ups and downs to boosters and a rats nest of circuits, not worth the time unless it was for the sake of building a megaproject.
Also I am glad that maybe now riding in carts will be pleasant and not jerky and glitchy.
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[url=http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100082]
You can either have it break on a slope, and powering it up afterward would cause it to continue. You can also place a block behind a booster, which will determine the direction for the booster, and send you off.
Massive Greek Temple
Greatest Waterslide Ever Built?
The Great Labyrinth
Classical Portal Temple and Piazza Project
Great Maze Making Contest
Stub ends, where you have a powered track, and a block after it(must be a full block) will launch the cart.
Also is gold really that rare? I have a good supply of it from mining diamonds and lapiz on similar levels as it is found. I
You can either have it break on a slope, and powering it up afterward would cause it to continue. You can also place a block behind a booster, which will determine the direction for the booster, and send you off.
Massive Greek Temple
Greatest Waterslide Ever Built?
The Great Labyrinth
Classical Portal Temple and Piazza Project
Great Maze Making Contest
What basis do you have for saying that?
I have been using minecart systems for nearly a year now, and have used probably 10 or more types of boosters. And I am familiar with the system you describe, with plate to stop the cart, and a button to send another from an infinite loop to restart it. I used it a month ago, actually, to setup secondary stations from the grand-central hub I built on our server.
The thing is, if you are honest with yourself, you will certainly have to admit that particular system of sending a cart from an infinite loop is grossly inferior. It is true that it does give a very powerful boost of hundreds of blocks, but it is quite costly. It requires 2 or more carts to work well, and it require great knowledge of track-quirks to setup properly, and a ton of extra carts and space. And on top of all that, it is SO easy to damage or jam. If a single broken block drops onto one of the tracks, it will stop the carts and jam the machine. If a mob gets in there, it can get fouled up as well. And on top of all this, the system will glitch out on its own with no explanation, even being sealed in glass, and the carts will freak out. And the system changes and breaks in some different way with every update. And on top of all that, there are a million ways for people to mess up the system, or to grief it.
Are you really suggesting that all that space, all that iron, all the exerptise it requires to setup, and all the time it takes to reset when it breaks down a million times, is really superior a few boosters conencted to a switch, that literally takes up no space, costs no iron, has no moving parts to jam, and is easy to fix if griefed, is not better?
Believe me friend, I am not speaking from a perspective of ignorance of these at all. I am speaking from the frustration of being forced to use them and forced to fix them for months to make stations work.
Massive Greek Temple
Greatest Waterslide Ever Built?
The Great Labyrinth
Classical Portal Temple and Piazza Project
Great Maze Making Contest
Do this for me then... using no glitch boosters, make a station that will stop a cart when it arrives, let the player get out, then get back in and get boosted in the same direction it was originally traveling.
I understand that you can stop it on on incline to achieve this, but how much of a pita is it going to be resetting that cart every time you exit when it gets bumped off the track due to player collision? Not only that, but how aesthetically pleasing will your stations look with angled slopes coming in and out?
And you are saying a downslope is unsightly, yet the old system to start from a stationary position, where a giant beast full of 30 pieces of track, 2 carts, and a nest of redstone, which takes up a hundred of blocks of cubic space, and is a pain to fix when it glitches out or jams, is less unsightly?
Massive Greek Temple
Greatest Waterslide Ever Built?
The Great Labyrinth
Classical Portal Temple and Piazza Project
Great Maze Making Contest
as of lately I have yet to see someone whining about this particular update. I dare you to send me to at least 2 thread with this "Whining" you are talking about.
Looking back at what things were, you're all trying to relive those days and acting like this will never work. Try experimenting extensively before you start blabbing and posting rant-esque **** about a glitch that was never meant to be should stay in the game. If you're going maximum speed, they'll definitely push you 32 blocks. True that they suck horsedick going uphill, I'm not even going to deny that. The fact is that they reset your speed when you run over one, which makes going up hard.
You must be blind. Open your eyes before you think you are calling someone else out.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=294882
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=294869
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=296929
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=294932
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=295503
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=296419
Massive Greek Temple
Greatest Waterslide Ever Built?
The Great Labyrinth
Classical Portal Temple and Piazza Project
Great Maze Making Contest
that's too easy
the station is on a branch, and the track ends on a powered rail with a block after it so the cart goes again in reverse when power is applied(the branch is a wye shape and the cart goes back on the main line in the correct direction, without any changing switch orientation needed if you plan it right).
It is also easily to make this automatic so a cart would stop at each station by itself even if unoccupied by a rider capable of pushing a button trackside., there would be a detector rail you hit immediately before the dead end, that sends a pulse through a bunch of delayers which after many seconds reaches the normally unpowered rail at the end launching the cart. You could make it long enough to give someone a chance to board, and put note blocks in the chain of delayers to act as chimes for when a cart first arrives and then leaves, just like on a real transit system.
Also like a real life modern subway such as the Singapore MRT or the people movers at many big airports like Atlanta, you could try platform screens where an iron door opens to let you reach the cart but is otherwise closed, preventing mobs from getting on the tracks in an otherwise open-air elevated station you didn't want to close in.
I am with you on the new system being full of promises, but that I have to rectify. The "giant beast" can be well hidden and create a really cool station nonetheless. Fully automated, and rarely glitches, apart from the boosters needing a push once in a while.
I think there is no need to go to such length to convince others the new system is a nice change. Please, don't trash the old like that. It had it's advantages, and the new one does too.
I don't get that need to convince people not on the merits of the new, but on the flaws of the old.
o.0