I am building an underground minecart line going from one of my forts to another. It's just a straight line, and with the limited amount of gold I have, want to make the most efficient track using powered rails. So..
What is the most efficient way to lay out your powered rails?
What I mean is, how many consecutive rails does it take to accelerate to the maximum speed, and
how far apart can the powered rails be to maintain that top speed?
I should note that how they are powered doesn't matter at this point; let's assume they are all powered and there is no concern as to how.
Let's bring some visuals up in here.
So this is the start. Still unsure if I need 3 or 4 powered rails to get the most acceleration.
16 blocks down, this is what I have. It seems to hold the max speed, so I think we solved this dilemna. All that leaves is the 3 or 4 question, at the start.
I am building an underground minecart line going from one of my forts to another. It's just a straight line, and with the limited amount of gold I have, want to make the most efficient track using powered rails. So..
What is the most efficient way to lay out your powered rails?
What I mean is, how many consecutive rails does it take to accelerate to the maximum speed, and
how far apart can the powered rails be to maintain that top speed?
Educated guess here:
Start you rail 3 or 4 blocks up (For initial speed)
Ok, so every 16 blocks maintains maximum speed? The wiki is a tad unclear; it says 'satisfactory speed'
Still hard to tell if 3 or 4 blocks at the start is needed. A MPH mod would be pretty useful right now!
For a smooth acceleration, place 8 unpowered rails between every single booster rail. It's a bit hard to get started but it accelerates you the perfect amount.
I think I should have been clearer :tongue.gif: I'm trying to find a way to go from stationary to maximum speed the fastest, and then the most rail-efficient way to keep that maximum speed. When the wiki says "Satisfactory" and "Acceptable" it's not being too specific, and I don't know if Satisfactory means Maximum.
While putting them 16 apart seems to keep it at a decent enough speed, is it going the max speed? does it decelerate at all within those 16 blocks?
EDIT: And by maximum speed, I mean the max speed that the powered rails can provide; not the booster glitch.
I think I should have been clearer :tongue.gif: I'm trying to find a way to go from stationary to maximum speed the fastest, and then the most rail-efficient way to keep that maximum speed. When the wiki says "Satisfactory" and "Acceptable" it's not being too specific, and I don't know if Satisfactory means Maximum.
While putting them 16 apart seems to keep it at a decent enough speed, is it going the max speed? does it decelerate at all within those 16 blocks?
Yeah, I think.
If you aren't using INVedit, separate by 16. If you are, separate by 8.
I think I should have been clearer :tongue.gif: I'm trying to find a way to go from stationary to maximum speed the fastest, and then the most rail-efficient way to keep that maximum speed. When the wiki says "Satisfactory" and "Acceptable" it's not being too specific, and I don't know if Satisfactory means Maximum.
While putting them 16 apart seems to keep it at a decent enough speed, is it going the max speed? does it decelerate at all within those 16 blocks?
How many blocks apart from a booster track will it take the minecart to decelerate? The world may never know.
Also, dude. I'm pretty sure that'd be impossible to figure out. Make a booster track ever 2 rails, then. It sure a **** wont slow down then :biggrin.gif:
How many blocks apart from a booster track will it take the minecart to decelerate? The world may never know.
Also, dude. I'm pretty sure that'd be impossible to figure out. Make a booster track ever 2 rails, then. It sure a **** wont slow down then :biggrin.gif:
Thats what i'm trying to figure out! :biggrin.gif: I started off with every 2, but i'm trying to find way that uses the least amount of gold.
There has to be some scientific way to decide this. And by scientific, I mean punching rails and sticking them in different places until it works the best.
Based on a limited experiment trying to replace my door/ladder glitch booster with a perpetual motion power rail booster (4 power rails and 4 curved normal rails in a circle, RS torch in the middle), it seems as though once the cart has attained maximum speed, power rails will not add additional momentum. It made no difference whether I let the cart make 2 trips around, or 100 trips around, once I hit the button to let it loose, it would travel only a modest distance.
What that means, if correct, is that as soon as the cart leaves the power rails, it will start to lose velocity. So to actually maintain max speed continuously, you would need continuous power rails. How frequently you need them to stay "close enough" to max speed is going to depend on what you think close enough is. :smile.gif:
I'm pretty sure this is why power rails aren't that effective for going uphill, because they rapidly slow down on un-powered portions of the upslope. It's the glitch-booster's ability to stack momentum well above the max velocity that is why they can go flying up huge inclines with no slowdown.
I still like my glitch boosters. But I guess one advantage if they get fixed/removed is that I'll never have that little mental twitch that occurs whenever I have to talk about momentum and velocity as if they are independent properties. :tongue.gif:
Rails don't accelerate your cart-they simply reset the cart speed to maximum. Put one powered rail every 32 blocks if on flat ground and every 3-5 blocks going up an incline. You don't need more than one at a time.
...Or... you could make a small classic booster *snip* which will reliably take you 512 blocks at maximum speed.
he wants to use real boosters, not glitches
the original booster thing isn't a glitch, really. it's simply a loophole in the laws surrounding minecarts. if a minecart is bumped into, it will try to move away from the item pushing it. thus, if two are even in their alignment, they will continue to push off each other, while dragging each other at the same time.
There has to be some scientific way to decide this. And by scientific, I mean punching rails and sticking them in different places until it works the best.
That kind of 'best' is really up to you then. You have quite a few posts here of different lengths people find works for them and the wiki giving you some other guide lines.. I think you are to the point of try em every 2, 4, 6 ... etc until you find what you feel is best. People with a ton of gold are almost assuredly going to pick lower numbers because they are more realistic to them while those with new worlds and low gold counts will stretch it out as far as they can.
Good luck! And maybe when you are done you can post back with what your best was :smile.gif:
PS The powered booster mentioned by SpaceGhostCTC is awesome, but can leave you with queasy feelings for now :wink.gif:
Rails don't accelerate your cart-they simply reset the cart speed to maximum. Put one powered rail every 32 blocks if on flat ground and every 3-5 blocks going up an incline. You don't need more than one at a time.
Rails DO NOT RESET anything. If it did then anytime a glicth boosted car travelled over a P-rail then the glitch effects would be reset. But they aren't so there's no such reset occuring.
...Or... you could make a small classic booster *snip* which will reliably take you 512 blocks at maximum speed.
he wants to use real boosters, not glitches
the original booster thing isn't a glitch, really. it's simply a loophole in the laws surrounding minecarts. if a minecart is bumped into, it will try to move away from the item pushing it. thus, if two are even in their alignment, they will continue to push off each other, while dragging each other at the same time.
It's a glitch. The collision meshes work properly when carts are both on flat level straight tracks. It's when a cart glitches in between the front and rear collision meshes that the effect happens.
Rails don't accelerate your cart-they simply reset the cart speed to maximum. Put one powered rail every 32 blocks if on flat ground and every 3-5 blocks going up an incline. You don't need more than one at a time.
Rails DO NOT RESET anything. If it did then anytime a glicth boosted car travelled over a P-rail then the glitch effects would be reset. But they aren't so there's no such reset occuring.
I'm sick to death of hearing this "they don't keep giving you momentum" rumor.
Here's what happens: They give smaller boost as your momentum increases. Seriously, I tested it myself. Here's how many tiles booster tracks will send an empty minecart:
1 : 6.5
2 : 9.5
3 : 10.5
4 : 11
5 : 12
6 : 13
7 : 14.5
8 : 15
9 : 15.5
10: 16
15: 17.5
50: 24
I didn't try to be very specific about fractions so these numbers aren't perfect but you can see the trend pretty easily. The first rail gives a lot of boost. The next gives about half as much. The next four only give about 1 tile more distance. The next four only give about one half.
*This actually accounts for why most people think it caps out. When they set up loops they quickly reach a point where the booster rails are only giving as much energy as it takes to get through the two tracks that turn it around to go on another boost rail.
**I think it's simpler than this though. I would think each track takes a % of the carts momentum away while classic boosters keep giving each cart some % more momentum while they touch. The powered rails just seem weak because they are linear instead of exponential so they can't compete with friction after a point.
***If I could find a damn meters/sec and/or momentum mod I wouldn't have to guess this kind of thing.
With a rider you get 8 times the distance (momentum is the same, the cart just doesn't lose as much as it goes along.) Maximum speed happens really quick. You'll need 3 powered tiles to get that. 2 tiles might technically put you up to top speed but only just there so you'll be traveling slower than that until the next booster rail (and if you space them out enough maybe below top speed the whole trip.)
Now if you want to be ultra-economical it just so happens that 2 tiles on a slope will send you about as far as 3 tiles flat. Trying to to only use one powered rail plus regular rails on a slope isn't going to work very well though as it takes the powered rail plus 3 regular rails just to get as much boost as two rails.
I should note though that 12 iron ingots worth of rails plus two carts is sufficient to send you ~1000 tiles with 100% reliability. Just have the main cart boosted eight tiles by both carts one way then do a little circle and then go back through the carts and off to wherever. This is about the maximum efficiency without having the cart on some closed loop doing laps or breaking into genuinely glitchy territory. The same number of gold ingots will take you 520 tiles going by the numbers in the wiki (or just 160 if you listen to some of the people in here.)
Gold is harder to come by so realistically you're getting more like 20-30% as much cart distance out of your mining effort by refusing to use classic boosters. It is almost less trouble to make a boat path. (keyword: "EATS road")
tldr; 2 booster tiles get you up to max speed but if you stick 15 of them together you get three times that much momentum. These tiles freaking give you energy past max speed.
For my grand railway, i use 3 powered rails every 64 blocks. It starts off with a 4 powered rail boost. As far as I can tell, it stays at max speed. Probably not the most efficient combination, but it suits my needs.
What is the most efficient way to lay out your powered rails?
What I mean is, how many consecutive rails does it take to accelerate to the maximum speed, and
how far apart can the powered rails be to maintain that top speed?
I should note that how they are powered doesn't matter at this point; let's assume they are all powered and there is no concern as to how.
Let's bring some visuals up in here.
So this is the start. Still unsure if I need 3 or 4 powered rails to get the most acceleration.
16 blocks down, this is what I have. It seems to hold the max speed, so I think we solved this dilemna. All that leaves is the 3 or 4 question, at the start.
Educated guess here:
Start you rail 3 or 4 blocks up (For initial speed)
Then place a powered rail every 16 tracks or so.
Still hard to tell if 3 or 4 blocks at the start is needed. A MPH mod would be pretty useful right now!
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While putting them 16 apart seems to keep it at a decent enough speed, is it going the max speed? does it decelerate at all within those 16 blocks?
EDIT: And by maximum speed, I mean the max speed that the powered rails can provide; not the booster glitch.
Yeah, I think.
If you aren't using INVedit, separate by 16. If you are, separate by 8.
Support the Slime Update!
How many blocks apart from a booster track will it take the minecart to decelerate? The world may never know.
Also, dude. I'm pretty sure that'd be impossible to figure out. Make a booster track ever 2 rails, then. It sure a **** wont slow down then :biggrin.gif:
Thats what i'm trying to figure out! :biggrin.gif: I started off with every 2, but i'm trying to find way that uses the least amount of gold.
There has to be some scientific way to decide this. And by scientific, I mean punching rails and sticking them in different places until it works the best.
he wants to use real boosters, not glitches
it's platforming...not parkour <<
What that means, if correct, is that as soon as the cart leaves the power rails, it will start to lose velocity. So to actually maintain max speed continuously, you would need continuous power rails. How frequently you need them to stay "close enough" to max speed is going to depend on what you think close enough is. :smile.gif:
I'm pretty sure this is why power rails aren't that effective for going uphill, because they rapidly slow down on un-powered portions of the upslope. It's the glitch-booster's ability to stack momentum well above the max velocity that is why they can go flying up huge inclines with no slowdown.
I still like my glitch boosters. But I guess one advantage if they get fixed/removed is that I'll never have that little mental twitch that occurs whenever I have to talk about momentum and velocity as if they are independent properties. :tongue.gif:
the original booster thing isn't a glitch, really. it's simply a loophole in the laws surrounding minecarts. if a minecart is bumped into, it will try to move away from the item pushing it. thus, if two are even in their alignment, they will continue to push off each other, while dragging each other at the same time.
This method may require more redstone than you wanted to use(for the timer)but it works great.
That kind of 'best' is really up to you then. You have quite a few posts here of different lengths people find works for them and the wiki giving you some other guide lines.. I think you are to the point of try em every 2, 4, 6 ... etc until you find what you feel is best. People with a ton of gold are almost assuredly going to pick lower numbers because they are more realistic to them while those with new worlds and low gold counts will stretch it out as far as they can.
Good luck! And maybe when you are done you can post back with what your best was :smile.gif:
PS The powered booster mentioned by SpaceGhostCTC is awesome, but can leave you with queasy feelings for now :wink.gif:
Rails DO NOT RESET anything. If it did then anytime a glicth boosted car travelled over a P-rail then the glitch effects would be reset. But they aren't so there's no such reset occuring.
It's a glitch. The collision meshes work properly when carts are both on flat level straight tracks. It's when a cart glitches in between the front and rear collision meshes that the effect happens.
Not to mention http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=308670 clearly shows you can build up a good amount of momentum just using powered rails. (Built it last night and the more delay the farther you go so yeah..)
Here's what happens: They give smaller boost as your momentum increases. Seriously, I tested it myself. Here's how many tiles booster tracks will send an empty minecart:
1 : 6.5
2 : 9.5
3 : 10.5
4 : 11
5 : 12
6 : 13
7 : 14.5
8 : 15
9 : 15.5
10: 16
15: 17.5
50: 24
I didn't try to be very specific about fractions so these numbers aren't perfect but you can see the trend pretty easily. The first rail gives a lot of boost. The next gives about half as much. The next four only give about 1 tile more distance. The next four only give about one half.
*This actually accounts for why most people think it caps out. When they set up loops they quickly reach a point where the booster rails are only giving as much energy as it takes to get through the two tracks that turn it around to go on another boost rail.
**I think it's simpler than this though. I would think each track takes a % of the carts momentum away while classic boosters keep giving each cart some % more momentum while they touch. The powered rails just seem weak because they are linear instead of exponential so they can't compete with friction after a point.
***If I could find a damn meters/sec and/or momentum mod I wouldn't have to guess this kind of thing.
With a rider you get 8 times the distance (momentum is the same, the cart just doesn't lose as much as it goes along.) Maximum speed happens really quick. You'll need 3 powered tiles to get that. 2 tiles might technically put you up to top speed but only just there so you'll be traveling slower than that until the next booster rail (and if you space them out enough maybe below top speed the whole trip.)
Now if you want to be ultra-economical it just so happens that 2 tiles on a slope will send you about as far as 3 tiles flat. Trying to to only use one powered rail plus regular rails on a slope isn't going to work very well though as it takes the powered rail plus 3 regular rails just to get as much boost as two rails.
I should note though that 12 iron ingots worth of rails plus two carts is sufficient to send you ~1000 tiles with 100% reliability. Just have the main cart boosted eight tiles by both carts one way then do a little circle and then go back through the carts and off to wherever. This is about the maximum efficiency without having the cart on some closed loop doing laps or breaking into genuinely glitchy territory. The same number of gold ingots will take you 520 tiles going by the numbers in the wiki (or just 160 if you listen to some of the people in here.)
Gold is harder to come by so realistically you're getting more like 20-30% as much cart distance out of your mining effort by refusing to use classic boosters. It is almost less trouble to make a boat path. (keyword: "EATS road")
tldr; 2 booster tiles get you up to max speed but if you stick 15 of them together you get three times that much momentum. These tiles freaking give you energy past max speed.