Well I sure hope notch tries his best to his own ability to make a product that he believes that is good for the consumer. Anyhow there is only one other person working with him, two people working on a game must not be easy. I am not a good programmer by any means but effort counts. The thing is as soon as minecraft is finished completely , we won't have to worry about the mods update problem , I am not saying disregard mods all together but the mod problem is only temporally an issue. A issue which I hope is fixed for modders .
he is giving it second thoughts and looking into a new and easier way to do it that won't be so time consuming on his part. He's not abandoning anything.
Currently modifications are not at all restrictive. A Mod API would restrict your access to the game by limiting the level at which you are able to modify the game. If you don't believe me, ask Notch.
There is no reason that the presence of an API would force you to follow the API's rules. To quote one of the guys who taught me to code, "A good hacker can write with anything, a great hacker can write around anything."
I suggest you go back and talk to the person that taught you to code and ask him his opinion on the logic behind a coder/dev team spending months working on an API that will just be ignored by most of the community as it will likely not be flexible enough. I'm sure he'll tell you exactly what I've already said, and you seem to have entirely glossed over.
~~~
Quote from xiix »
Quote from Guswut »
Quote from xiix »
What is "our work"?
ALL modifications are based upon the MineCraft code. That is what he is referencing. It is NOT open source (you need to pay to get a copy), and is not to be distributed (which is currently the major problem, and is going to likely be what he needs to solve next).
Well as of now, yes they are no arguments there. Guess I read that statement in the context of them creating an API and then preventing people from making money off mods that use it unless they go thru Mojang (possibly charging for said API excluded).
There isn't an easy way from them to prevent people from creating mods, from my basic understanding of the code. They'd have to re-design the entire way the game is packaged and released, which would likely be a metric turtle-ton of work.
And I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't charge for the API, but if they did, that's their choice. If they go and restructure their deployment system to make unofficial mods unavailable, that's their choice, too. You are not entitled to have mods just because you've had them before, want them, and think you are entitled to them.
That said, Notch is a too-good-for-his-own-good nice guy, and will surely not charge for the API if he can help it. Hopefully, though, the dev team come up with a good way to allow code integration without it being killed with each update, and then adding a simple mod-loader like addon that'd allow mods to be easily dealt with in the game client.
And THEN we all get our cookies.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fire And Ice
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
The Bukkit people do a great job. I'm not confident that Mojang can replicate the quality of their work. I don't really understand why Notch doesn't give them some kind of official support.
Instead of an API, which is limited, wouldn't a mojang-run MCP work just as well? As long as mojang releases the update and an updated MCP at the same time there would be a much smaller wait between mod updates.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from The Zephyr »
If he were so inclined, he could carry a Nimitz class supercarrier, but that'd take him two trips. That ranks about an eight on my scale, with Mars being a 9 and the Andromeda galaxy being nearly a 10.
AWWWWW... my mods just keep breaking. The mods arent a great problem tho, the problem is my multiplayer server. then i have to update ALL plugins. ALL.
I wasnt thinking so much about ssp modding in the api but more on the smp part. only a couple of hooks for example HUD would be awesome and you could do so much with it combined with bukkit. i think on it like this: you connect to the smp server it downloads whats required like new items and blocks and maybe a piece of code too. now that would be awesoe but the danger for viruses would be big. And im pretty sure that he stated earlier a long time ago that he would eventually make ssp into a local server so i think the smp is being their main target first, IF tehy decided to implement it. ive been looking forward to it a long time but nada...
Why is Notch a hypocrite for officially adding a mod someone made for his own game? I could understand if it was like someone else's game he was ripping code/ideas from, but if I make a game and someone hacks it to add their own improvements AND distributes it, imo that just became free game if I like it.
The really sad thing is that I'd be lying if I said i shopped it...
Also, of course those search results will appear you typed in "Notch" and "Minecraft" which are the most searched terms and those websites are also the most visited. In addition, Google pretty much ignores the "hypocrite" part.
Sigh, there's no getting through to people sometimes.
Read my post again.
Did it?
Good.
Now, he's talking about how bad mods are, because they'd somehow, by some magical fairy means, detract money, from him, because people would be making money of his work, somehow.
He is concerned, about this.
Following?
Good.
Preceding this statement, he's stating that he's essentially ripping someone else's work, to add to his, so he can make more money.
That's irony and hypocrisy if i ever saw it, look it up.
He's pretty much stating "Hey, don't make any money of my work! Now, let's check the modding sections of this forum and see what i can get my grubby hands on..."
I'll end this with this fun little tidbit:
"Plugins for the game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, including selling them for money."
Now, before anyone posts anything, read my first post again, read this a second time, think about it for a minute, go read some more of Notch's amusing blogposts, take a sip of ice tea, it's pretty good this early in the spring, think of atleast three communities of considerable size that DOESN'T run on modified server software, think about some games that thrive on community mods and official API's (GMod, mount and blade, Half-Life), then we'll talk.
the only mods he added were given to him by the creators and so far the only mods he added were ones that improved performance and aesthetics(trees(the big ones?) and lighting)
Notch didn't say mods were bad he only wants to change the pistons because they don't fit his vision of his game
Edited: "The main problems we need to solve are preventing people from making money off our work (unless they have a license deal with us)" He means that doesn't want people to steal his codes to make their own games to profit from. I mean he's fine with people making clones of minecraft as long as they don't use minecraft's code and artwork.
I do wish it was a bit more simpler to add these mods, only the more simple mods are the ones I have actually tried.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Sigh, there's no getting through to people sometimes.
Read my post again.
Did it?
Good.
Now, he's talking about how bad mods are, because they'd somehow, by some magical fairy means, detract money, from him, because people would be making money of his work, somehow. The quote you provided never said anything about concern for Mojang losing money. That's something you're reading into it.
He is concerned, about this.
Following?
Good.
Preceding this statement, he's stating that he's essentially ripping someone else's work, to add to his, so he can make more money. When it was originally suggested to Notch that the pistons be added to vanilla Minecraft, he said that he really liked it, but would only consider adding it if the idea was submitted to him by the maker of the mod. The guy who made the piston mod, who's name escapes me, gave Mojang the code, and permission to add it. There was no "ripping off" here.
That's irony and hypocrisy if i ever saw it, look it up.
He's pretty much stating "Hey, don't make any money of my work! Now, let's check the modding sections of this forum and see what i can get my grubby hands on..."
I'll end this with this fun little tidbit:
"Plugins for the game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, including selling them for money."
Now, before anyone posts anything, read my first post again, read this a second time, think about it for a minute, go read some more of Notch's amusing blogposts, take a sip of ice tea, it's pretty good this early in the spring, think of atleast three communities of considerable size that DOESN'T run on modified server software, think about some games that thrive on community mods and official API's (GMod, mount and blade, Half-Life), then we'll talk.Call of Duty. BAM. I didn't even need to think about that one. I could now say "Halo" but that would feel like cheating. Every Elder Scrolls game to date - Sure, there's a modding community, but the vast majority of players run vanilla. That's two games, at least. Starcraft 2's custom map support, while a mere shadow of what we had in SC1 and WC3, is there, though I would hazard to say the game would go on fine without it, so, does that count? I also find it humorous that you cite "Gmod" as an example. Yes, Gmod thrives on mods, but that's probably because, you know, it's a modding tool, so that's pretty much it's entire reason for existence. At any rate, I fail to see how this ties in with the rest of your post. Notch doesn't like modders, and likes to steal their work, so the modding community is...Yeah, I don't get it.
All the guys complaining are complete idiots. You know that you are modding a BETA game. Things change all the time and they will continue until the finished version (most likely). An example of your stupidity would be writing your name in wet cement only to have it recovered. You then write your name it it again and gain it is covered. You decide the best course of action is to complain to the person who pours cement because he is messing with "your" artistic medium. Notch does not have to do jack for any of you. He could drop everything right now and would be fully in the right to do so. So shut up.
the difference is that notch had said that beta is just a title. the real version wont be much different and even that is just a milestone. nothing more. so its a very big posibilty that the cement truck thought he did a good job the first time and decided he didnt want to come back.
More notch being lazy if you ask me. And now with Jens on another project it will be weeks before we get another update with nothing in it. Seriously this dude is the laziest developer I have ever seen.
Preceding this statement, he's stating that he's essentially ripping someone else's work, to add to his, so he can make more money.
That's irony and hypocrisy if i ever saw it, look it up.
First of all, it's not "someone else's work", it's someone modifying HIS work, with the knowledge and consent that any such modifications may be incorporated into the game. He's not stealing anything - he's using what he's been given.
And, if you were truly interested in mods being successful and supported, what better way than to incorporate them into the game?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
Please note that when you buy the game, you're paying for the game as it is right now!
Reading is hard.
Need I say more?
I suggest you go back and talk to the person that taught you to code and ask him his opinion on the logic behind a coder/dev team spending months working on an API that will just be ignored by most of the community as it will likely not be flexible enough. I'm sure he'll tell you exactly what I've already said, and you seem to have entirely glossed over.
~~~
There isn't an easy way from them to prevent people from creating mods, from my basic understanding of the code. They'd have to re-design the entire way the game is packaged and released, which would likely be a metric turtle-ton of work.
And I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't charge for the API, but if they did, that's their choice. If they go and restructure their deployment system to make unofficial mods unavailable, that's their choice, too. You are not entitled to have mods just because you've had them before, want them, and think you are entitled to them.
That said, Notch is a too-good-for-his-own-good nice guy, and will surely not charge for the API if he can help it. Hopefully, though, the dev team come up with a good way to allow code integration without it being killed with each update, and then adding a simple mod-loader like addon that'd allow mods to be easily dealt with in the game client.
And THEN we all get our cookies.
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
Also, of course those search results will appear you typed in "Notch" and "Minecraft" which are the most searched terms and those websites are also the most visited. In addition, Google pretty much ignores the "hypocrite" part.
the only mods he added were given to him by the creators and so far the only mods he added were ones that improved performance and aesthetics(trees(the big ones?) and lighting)
Notch didn't say mods were bad he only wants to change the pistons because they don't fit his vision of his game
Edited: "The main problems we need to solve are preventing people from making money off our work (unless they have a license deal with us)" He means that doesn't want people to steal his codes to make their own games to profit from. I mean he's fine with people making clones of minecraft as long as they don't use minecraft's code and artwork.
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
I added words. It's just so much easier.
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp
But if he was logical about it, he wouldn't be able to make yet another bitching thread on the minecraft forums!
the difference is that notch had said that beta is just a title. the real version wont be much different and even that is just a milestone. nothing more. so its a very big posibilty that the cement truck thought he did a good job the first time and decided he didnt want to come back.
You program a game like Minecraft.
First of all, it's not "someone else's work", it's someone modifying HIS work, with the knowledge and consent that any such modifications may be incorporated into the game. He's not stealing anything - he's using what he's been given.
And, if you were truly interested in mods being successful and supported, what better way than to incorporate them into the game?
Because they probably don't earn enough money to hire other devs.
Notch does.
Though this isn't to say I suggest Notch hire someone else. Just pointing out the obvious difference.