I too would like to say that the OP has a very well thought out argument.
It really is the 'idea' of wolves that everyone is in love with. When I first saw the video, my kneejerk reaction was a 'ohmigawdeffinSWEET!' train of thought. I believed that it would be some sort of 'Black & White' companion with whom I could train and use for a multitude of purposes. I also believe this to be what most people are seeing when they look at the wolves in MC.
The OP is completely right in the fact that to get them to that point, they are going to require one of the most code-heavy overhauls that Minecraft has ever seen. To this date, there has been nothing like it. All of the current mobs use the same AI, but to develop the wolf (which, I believe notch will do, because as stated before, pets are a whole new can of worms) weeks, if not months of development time is going to have to be devoted to them. This effectively delays the development of new mobs, monster villages, and any other pipe dreams out there.
Notch however, is in a difficult position. What other game has such a number of people taking a VERY active interest in the development process? No matter which way he goes now, it's going to make a large number of people distressed. I'm interested to see what direction this goes, but for now we'll just have to wait and see.
And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I'm a concept artist and designer who teaches game design in San Francisco.
-J
Tldr; OP has a very valid argument, I think we all need to take a step back and really think about this one before we react.
I got tired after reading your first few ranting points. Why do you go all out when something doesn't work right in a game? I bet that in an FPS, if there was a gun you liked that's not in the game, you would rant all day about it. Just sayin'.
In this case, I think an idea has been suggested that is totally secondary to the core gameplay of Minecraft, which to my mind revolves around exploration and construction.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
I'd like to say "I called it!" I called that wolves would be boring after a few minutes/ days.
Anyways,
Yes OP is right, wolves are just a novelty that wastes time that could be spent on better things.
They feel like something from a mod, that's interesting for a few days, then you get bored of it. I think it's ok, but not worth the time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Wolves are staying. Too many people requested pets since minecraft was created, I just can't see mojang dropping them now. I'm sure the wolf pathfinding will be fixed soon.
Wolves are as relevant to the game as cake and cookies and squids, they're just fun additions.
I too would like to say that the OP has a very well thought out argument.
It really is the 'idea' of wolves that everyone is in love with. When I first saw the video, my kneejerk reaction was a 'ohmigawdeffinSWEET!' train of thought. I believed that it would be some sort of 'Black & White' companion with whom I could train and use for a multitude of purposes. I also believe this to be what most people are seeing when they look at the wolves in MC.
The OP is completely right in the fact that to get them to that point, they are going to require one of the most code-heavy overhauls that Minecraft has ever seen. To this date, there has been nothing like it. All of the current mobs use the same AI, but to develop the wolf (which, I believe notch will do, because as stated before, pets are a whole new can of worms) weeks, if not months of development time is going to have to be devoted to them. This effectively delays the development of new mobs, monster villages, and any other pipe dreams out there.
Notch however, is in a difficult position. What other game has such a number of people taking a VERY active interest in the development process? No matter which way he goes now, it's going to make a large number of people distressed. I'm interested to see what direction this goes, but for now we'll just have to wait and see.
And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I'm a concept artist and designer who teaches game design in San Francisco.
-J
Tldr; OP has a very valid argument, I think we all need to take a step back and really think about this one before we react.
You are a mature and awesome person.
Quote from BURRITO333 »
I got tired after reading your first few ranting points. Why do you go all out when something doesn't work right in a game? I bet that in an FPS, if there was a gun you liked that's not in the game, you would rant all day about it. Just sayin'.
You are not making any sense and completely misunderstood the thread like 80% of everyone else here.
Quote from MadCow21 »
Quote from FlowerChild »
In this case, I think an idea has been suggested that is totally secondary to the core gameplay of Minecraft, which to my mind revolves around exploration and construction.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
I think this may be the first valid counter-point in this entire thread. Awesome sauce :smile.gif:
You're absolutely right. I've been playing minecraft for so long now that I totally neglected the survival aspect that was so central to the experience in my first few in-game days. Now, with everything lit up in my building areas, and with high-above-ground minecart rail-systems interconnecting those areas, survival is far from my mind (unless I'm building permiter defense around new areas, which is a fairly routine process for me now).
So yes, I agree, survival IS a central aspect of the gameplay experience in the early game, and it would suffer if it were not there.
Now, I guess the question would be how much the wolves really contribute to the survival aspect. As they stand, I actually find they hinder your ability to survive (getting in your way, pushing you into danger, etc.) in many situations, but also help in a few (dealing with hostile mobs), so I don't see them really helping or hurting that aspect in the sum total. The potential is definitely there for them to help however, given more development time.
But again, I think they would require a LOT of work to get to that point. Namely, pathfinding would have to be substantially improved, and good pathfinding is definitely a non-trivial task (especially in a dynamic world like that of Minecraft).
So, while I think your counter-point has a lot of merit (and thank you for it :smile.gif: ), I don't think it really affects my central arguement. I still think the development time involved still heavily outweighs the potential here for helping the player survive.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
I think this may be the first valid counter-point in this entire thread. Awesome sauce :smile.gif:
You're absolutely right. I've been playing minecraft for so long now that I totally neglected the survival aspect that was so central to the experience in my first few in-game days. Now, with everything lit up in my building areas, and with high-above-ground minecart rail-systems interconnecting those areas, survival is far from my mind (unless I'm building permiter defense around new areas, which is a fairly routine process for me now).
So yes, I agree, survival IS a central aspect of the gameplay experience in the early game, and it would suffer if it were not there.
Now, I guess the question would be how much the wolves really contribute to the survival aspect. As they stand, I actually find they hinder your ability to survive (getting in your way, pushing you into danger, etc.) in many situations, but also help in a few (dealing with hostile mobs), so I don't see them really helping or hurting that aspect in the sum total. The potential is definitely there for them to help however, given more development time.
But again, I think they would require a LOT of work to get to that point. Namely, pathfinding would have to be substantially improved, and good pathfinding is definitely a non-trivial task (especially in a dynamic world like that of Minecraft).
So, while I think your counter-point has a lot of merit (and thank you for it :smile.gif: ), I don't think it really affects my central arguement. I still think the development time involved still heavily outweighs the potential here for helping the player survive.
If you don't like it, either stop playing Minecraft or don't tame them. Simple.
If you don't like the thread, don't post to it or quit the forums. Just as simple.
But I'm not the one being a complete oxymoron, am I now?
Well, I'll try to look past your complete misuse of the word and try to respond to what I think was the intent of your message:
You are suggesting that if I don't like an aspect of an activity (in this case, the wolves in Minecraft), I should either:
a) avoid that aspect (the wolves).
:cool.gif: stop engaging in the activity entirely (Minecraft as a whole).
In order to point out how illogical that statement is, I retorted by saying, that if you don't like an aspect of an activity (this thread on these forums), you should either:
a) avoid that aspect (don't post to the thread)
:cool.gif: stop engaging in the activity entirely (quit the forums).
Or to put it in simple terms you might be capable of understanding:
Again, my whole argument revolves not around whether I like the wolves or not, or whether I want to play with them or not (which I don't, and I won't), BUT about all the other features that could be in the game if the wolves aren't there.
Sure, I can stop playing with the wolves if I don't like them, but that still means I won't get to play with everything else that is not going to make it into the game because of them.
You act as if there is some magical number of time that Notch and crew will continue to develop minecraft and that wolves take up such a significant portion of that time that something awesome will get skipped over for it.
He will develop it so long as it makes money, and if his daily sales are any indication I don't think it will stop for a long time. I'm not worried about wolf development taking away from anything else.
I'd like to say "I called it!" I called that wolves would be boring after a few minutes/ days.
Anyways,
Yes OP is right, wolves are just a novelty that wastes time that could be spent on better things.
They feel like something from a mod, that's interesting for a few days, then you get bored of it. I think it's ok, but not worth the time.
Wolves are not really a novelty, no matter how you look at it. A mob that can be domesticated and won't despawn is what a lot of users have been wanting for a very long time. A novelty is something like lapis lazuli blocks- they don't add much, they're just there to be pretty. Wolves DO add to the game, they definitely give me a reason to settle in multiple biomes (I personally love deserts, but you can only get wolves in forests) and they add an interesting new dynamic to hunting. I no longer have to waste swords on passives since I can guide wolves with my bare fist, and one punch will down a cow without wasting arrows or sword durability. If the teleporting near the player is an issue, make them stay home while you're mining or exploring somewhere they can't navigate well. And of course, being pets, they add more companionship and emotion into gameplay. It's already been shown that some players genuinely care about their digital pets (People loving digital pets has been known since tamagotchi), and the emotion these dogs is hardly something you can disregard and call novelty.
I understand wolves aren't doing anything for you and your playstyle, but if you take anything from my post just have an open mind before completely ignoring everything the wolves add just because you want this game to invoke feelings of loneliness just like it did when you first started playing. Multiplayer alone should show you that the lonely feeling you got from playing is NOT the only feeling that this game should give.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
I think this may be the first valid counter-point in this entire thread. Awesome sauce :smile.gif:
You're absolutely right. I've been playing minecraft for so long now that I totally neglected the survival aspect that was so central to the experience in my first few in-game days. Now, with everything lit up in my building areas, and with high-above-ground minecart rail-systems interconnecting those areas, survival is far from my mind (unless I'm building permiter defense around new areas, which is a fairly routine process for me now).
So yes, I agree, survival IS a central aspect of the gameplay experience in the early game, and it would suffer if it were not there.
Now, I guess the question would be how much the wolves really contribute to the survival aspect. As they stand, I actually find they hinder your ability to survive (getting in your way, pushing you into danger, etc.) in many situations, but also help in a few (dealing with hostile mobs), so I don't see them really helping or hurting that aspect in the sum total. The potential is definitely there for them to help however, given more development time.
But again, I think they would require a LOT of work to get to that point. Namely, pathfinding would have to be substantially improved, and good pathfinding is definitely a non-trivial task (especially in a dynamic world like that of Minecraft).
So, while I think your counter-point has a lot of merit (and thank you for it :smile.gif: ), I don't think it really affects my central arguement. I still think the development time involved still heavily outweighs the potential here for helping the player survive.
Well, yeah. I'm certainly not making an argument for the awesome survivability benefits that wolves offer (as I have yet to log in), but judging by their description here they seem at least somewhat relevant in that respect.
I'm also not really overly concerned about rushing MC thru beta. I can enjoy the game pretty much indefinitely in its current form, there's no sub fee, and future releases are free to me no matter when he gets around to finishing them, so I don't see any point in urging haste.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
I understand wolves aren't doing anything for you and your playstyle, but have i you take anything from my post just have an open mind before completely ignoring everything the wolves add just because you want this game to invoke feelings of loneliness just like it did when you first started playing. Multiplayer alone should show you that the lonely feeling you got from playing is NOT the only feeling that this game should give.
Indeed. Everyone should be open-minded in the first place, but this community being the way it is, I don't see that changing any time soon. I agree though, wolves aren't completely useless. It's just a matter of how much of a priority they would have been right now.
If you don't like the thread, don't post to it or quit the forums. Just as simple.
I'll take that as a compliment. However I'm not a professional game developer, sure would be nice if I was though.
It really is the 'idea' of wolves that everyone is in love with. When I first saw the video, my kneejerk reaction was a 'ohmigawdeffinSWEET!' train of thought. I believed that it would be some sort of 'Black & White' companion with whom I could train and use for a multitude of purposes. I also believe this to be what most people are seeing when they look at the wolves in MC.
The OP is completely right in the fact that to get them to that point, they are going to require one of the most code-heavy overhauls that Minecraft has ever seen. To this date, there has been nothing like it. All of the current mobs use the same AI, but to develop the wolf (which, I believe notch will do, because as stated before, pets are a whole new can of worms) weeks, if not months of development time is going to have to be devoted to them. This effectively delays the development of new mobs, monster villages, and any other pipe dreams out there.
Notch however, is in a difficult position. What other game has such a number of people taking a VERY active interest in the development process? No matter which way he goes now, it's going to make a large number of people distressed. I'm interested to see what direction this goes, but for now we'll just have to wait and see.
And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I'm a concept artist and designer who teaches game design in San Francisco.
-J
Tldr; OP has a very valid argument, I think we all need to take a step back and really think about this one before we react.
It's interesting that you think that the core gameplay of Survival Mode has nothing to do with survival.
Somehow I don't think the developers share that view.
Anyways,
Yes OP is right, wolves are just a novelty that wastes time that could be spent on better things.
They feel like something from a mod, that's interesting for a few days, then you get bored of it. I think it's ok, but not worth the time.
Wolves are as relevant to the game as cake and cookies and squids, they're just fun additions.
You are a mature and awesome person.
You are not making any sense and completely misunderstood the thread like 80% of everyone else here.
That is a valid argument.
You're blowing my mind. Seriously.
Thanks! :biggrin.gif:
I think this may be the first valid counter-point in this entire thread. Awesome sauce :smile.gif:
You're absolutely right. I've been playing minecraft for so long now that I totally neglected the survival aspect that was so central to the experience in my first few in-game days. Now, with everything lit up in my building areas, and with high-above-ground minecart rail-systems interconnecting those areas, survival is far from my mind (unless I'm building permiter defense around new areas, which is a fairly routine process for me now).
So yes, I agree, survival IS a central aspect of the gameplay experience in the early game, and it would suffer if it were not there.
Now, I guess the question would be how much the wolves really contribute to the survival aspect. As they stand, I actually find they hinder your ability to survive (getting in your way, pushing you into danger, etc.) in many situations, but also help in a few (dealing with hostile mobs), so I don't see them really helping or hurting that aspect in the sum total. The potential is definitely there for them to help however, given more development time.
But again, I think they would require a LOT of work to get to that point. Namely, pathfinding would have to be substantially improved, and good pathfinding is definitely a non-trivial task (especially in a dynamic world like that of Minecraft).
So, while I think your counter-point has a lot of merit (and thank you for it :smile.gif: ), I don't think it really affects my central arguement. I still think the development time involved still heavily outweighs the potential here for helping the player survive.
Finally!
We're getting somewhere slightly!
Oh god. This post made my IQ drop 10 points. Stop watching MLP and go to school please.
Well, I'll try to look past your complete misuse of the word and try to respond to what I think was the intent of your message:
You are suggesting that if I don't like an aspect of an activity (in this case, the wolves in Minecraft), I should either:
a) avoid that aspect (the wolves).
:cool.gif: stop engaging in the activity entirely (Minecraft as a whole).
In order to point out how illogical that statement is, I retorted by saying, that if you don't like an aspect of an activity (this thread on these forums), you should either:
a) avoid that aspect (don't post to the thread)
:cool.gif: stop engaging in the activity entirely (quit the forums).
Or to put it in simple terms you might be capable of understanding:
pwned.
*bro-fist*
You act as if there is some magical number of time that Notch and crew will continue to develop minecraft and that wolves take up such a significant portion of that time that something awesome will get skipped over for it.
He will develop it so long as it makes money, and if his daily sales are any indication I don't think it will stop for a long time. I'm not worried about wolf development taking away from anything else.
Wolves are not really a novelty, no matter how you look at it. A mob that can be domesticated and won't despawn is what a lot of users have been wanting for a very long time. A novelty is something like lapis lazuli blocks- they don't add much, they're just there to be pretty. Wolves DO add to the game, they definitely give me a reason to settle in multiple biomes (I personally love deserts, but you can only get wolves in forests) and they add an interesting new dynamic to hunting. I no longer have to waste swords on passives since I can guide wolves with my bare fist, and one punch will down a cow without wasting arrows or sword durability. If the teleporting near the player is an issue, make them stay home while you're mining or exploring somewhere they can't navigate well. And of course, being pets, they add more companionship and emotion into gameplay. It's already been shown that some players genuinely care about their digital pets (People loving digital pets has been known since tamagotchi), and the emotion these dogs is hardly something you can disregard and call novelty.
I understand wolves aren't doing anything for you and your playstyle, but if you take anything from my post just have an open mind before completely ignoring everything the wolves add just because you want this game to invoke feelings of loneliness just like it did when you first started playing. Multiplayer alone should show you that the lonely feeling you got from playing is NOT the only feeling that this game should give.
Well, yeah. I'm certainly not making an argument for the awesome survivability benefits that wolves offer (as I have yet to log in), but judging by their description here they seem at least somewhat relevant in that respect.
I'm also not really overly concerned about rushing MC thru beta. I can enjoy the game pretty much indefinitely in its current form, there's no sub fee, and future releases are free to me no matter when he gets around to finishing them, so I don't see any point in urging haste.
Indeed. Everyone should be open-minded in the first place, but this community being the way it is, I don't see that changing any time soon. I agree though, wolves aren't completely useless. It's just a matter of how much of a priority they would have been right now.