In this thread, share your experience with mob farming. Is it a balanced game mechanic? Is it imbalanced? Please explain your choice in your post.
Note: This thread is not about if mob farms make Minecraft imbalanced. This thread is for discussing if mob farming itself is imbalanced when compared to alternative methods for gathering mob drops.
Note2: The poll, and it's results, are based on opinion. A poll based on facts is known as a quiz.XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bad design on the mug led to water and magma occasionally forming blockages. A catwalk allows access to fix these, in a recent cleaning attempt two legendary miners slipped on water on the catwalk and fell to their deaths in the obsidian mold.
For anyone new coming into the thread, please read this before you start rambling about "it's my game and I'll do what I want", "don't force your views", "it's fair", "don't like it don't use it", "TNT is so hard to get", "there's nothing wrong with it", etc. We've already addressed what you're about to say countless times in this thread before, so don't even start with it. Just read the big red text.
Realize that we are talking about pure game mechanics. We are not taking into consideration gameplay balance or how mob farms affect the game. It's kind of like pure mathematics.. it's not always applicable to everyday life and may not have a direct impact all the time, but that doesn't make it not exist.
We are not talking about game balance.
We don't care if it is acceptable or not.
We don't care if it is viewed as cheating or not.
We don't care if is viewed as wrong or not.
We don't care if you use them in your game or not.
We do not think it is wrong.
We do not think it is unacceptable.
We do not think it is bad.
An imbalanced mechanic can exist in a balanced game.
An imbalanced game mechanic can make a game balanced.
The value of the items is not a factor.
"We" being us who realize that mob farms are imbalanced in comparison to mob hunting.
Huh. Well that seems OPed but my question is how can they nerf it? They can't change the spawns or drops because then more people would have to build them to just get enough. It would end up hurting the normal player who collects string with a sword.
Basically I think anything can be OPed if you take it far enough. I don't think Notch is worried about the game mechanics being affected by giant 64x64 mod traps people make.
If by "nerfed/balanced" you mean "mob AI improves" then yessirree, sign me up. Overall combat could be much better without turning Minecraft into Mine Fortress 2.
If you mean any other sort of change, including changes to water or lava physics, damage immunity, nanny mods, selective item drop restrictions based on damage source, then no.
Yeah, this forum is as fun as a game sometimes; and it has a moderately steep learning curve. I forgot to put poll in the header. could you suggest a balanced poll. I'm a little overstimulated. Also I don't know how to link a thread. Help?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bad design on the mug led to water and magma occasionally forming blockages. A catwalk allows access to fix these, in a recent cleaning attempt two legendary miners slipped on water on the catwalk and fell to their deaths in the obsidian mold.
I don't think Notch should try to balance the mob spawning in order to balance the mob farms. However, I wouldn't mind Notch changing the spawn for other reasons, which effect the mob farms to get less loot. I hope you know what I am saying
I don't like dark box traps because they make the game a little too easy, imo. You can build them any where any world any time no problem. I DO, however, appreciate Spawner traps. They are limiting and kind of make sense. Spawners are actually spawning monsters and I believe that society would actually take advantage of them if they were found in a real life MineCraftia
More of this topic? If you were trying to survive in a world where monsters spawned in dark corners, and dropped usefull equipment that would help you thrive when killed, wouldnt you try to trap them? And as mentioned above, how do you balance it? If you propose a good plan to balance it, I might get behind it, but seeing as there is currently no posted way of doing this, I'm going to say it should be left alone. If anything, mob traps seem like a little bit of creativity people are putting into their worlds, to me atleast.
We've discussed various alternatives in the Mob Farm discussion, but I understand that you probably don't want to sift through 40 pages.
-Mobs drop nothing when killed by the environment.
-Spawning algorithms that decrease spawn rate when an absurd amount of them die in a given area.
-Mobs that drop unique and helpful items when killed by the player and not the environment.
-Mobs that can destroy blocks.
-Better AI and pathfinding.
-Changes to liquid physics.
-Lava burns signs.
There's plenty of alternatives that would benefit the game as a whole while fixing this exploit in the process.
Linking to a thread is as easy as copying the URL in your address bar, then using the URL tags (found at the top of the posting box. The code is
[url=www.url.com]This is the text that is displayed[/url]
A better poll and topic title:
Title: Your stance on Mob Grinders
Poll: What is your stance on Mob Grinders? Please choose one of the following. If you choose 'Other', please post and explain:
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should stay.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should be removed.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should stay, but with modification.
[*:2g7fwkzk]They can stay or go, either way is fine.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Other (Please explain).
It's a sandbox game. How can they possibly be overpowered? If it's single player then nobody really has any say what I can build in it except for me. The entire idea of them being overpowered is silly. Don't worry about what other people want to build. If you want to build one, great. If you don't, that's great too. Nerfing a building like that makes no sense.
Even if you nerd it, people are going yo get around it. It's a sandbox game. To truly do anything you would have to change so much that it would be too much effort for nothing.
Also, we don't need yet another thread about this. The first one should have died.
Now, allowing mobs to destroy blocks would be beyond epic, and is what I dream of, it would take Minecraft down a widely different road, and all that just to stop mob traps? Not likely. And there's a fine line between placing some cactus on your base to defend it, and building giant traps, so reducing drops from enviro kills seems a little... overboard, but I'm glad to see suggestions.
Now, allowing mobs to destroy blocks would be beyond epic, and is what I dream of, it would take Minecraft down a widely different road, and all that just to stop mob traps? Not likely. And there's a fine line between placing some cactus on your base to defend it, and building giant traps, so reducing drops from enviro kills seems a little... overboard, but I'm glad to see suggestions.
No, none of that is to stop mob grinders.
Those are suggestions that will improve the game as a whole.
As a side effect, they'll stop mob grinders from being quite as imbalanced. So take it as you want.
Quote from Jdeyoda »
It's a sandbox game. How can they possibly be overpowered? If it's single player then nobody really has any say what I can build in it except for me. The entire idea of them being overpowered is silly. Don't worry about what other people want to build. If you want to build one, great. If you don't, that's great too. Nerfing a building like that makes no sense.
Even if you nerd it, people are going yo get around it. It's a sandbox game. To truly do anything you would have to change so much that it would be too much effort for nothing.
Also, we don't need yet another thread about this. The first one should have died.
They're imbalanced in comparison to the rest of the game, and they don't work as a mechanic.
The first one should have died? So you're fine with not giving a place for people to voice their opinion and share valid arguments. Dang it, I forgot! That's exactly what forums are for. Maybe you should be reminded of that.
-Mobs drop nothing when killed by the environment.
-Spawning algorithms that decrease spawn rate when an absurd amount of them die in a given area.
-Mobs that drop unique and helpful items when killed by the player and not the environment. -Better AI and pathfinding.
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I posted this early on in the Mob Farm Thread, but it was quickly consumed in a raging flame war and ignored, so here it is again. I would love to hear people's opinions/criticisms.
I'm not exactly sure that there is anything to fix. Sure, you can say that mob farmers aren't fun or a valid use of the game mechanics, but that isn't for you to decide. It's a sandbox game. You need to decide your own type of fun from whatever means you want, and as long as you are not impeding other people's fun, it's fine. Besides, it's not a glitch. It's not some errant exploitable bug that Notch hasn't got around to fixing yet. It's an automated trap. You can argue that it's not a trap, but you'd be wrong, because that's really all it is.
No one gets hurt from mob farmers*. It doesn't make other people have less fun. If you don't like it, feel free to not use them, and play in places that don't use them. I won't stop you, nor will anyone else. It would be simply ridiculous to force someone to do something they don't want to do. It is equally ridiculous to force someone to not do something they want to do.
*You could say that griefing in SMP would be greatly reduced if there wasn't TNT to grief with. True. You can also remove TNT from the game, or restrict TNT access, or any number of simple solutions to that problem.
Additionally, now that we're getting solid numbers on people's opinions, I don't think we should remove something if the majority of people are fine with it the way it is.
It's a sandbox game. How can they possibly be overpowered? If it's single player then nobody really has any say what I can build in it except for me. The entire idea of them being overpowered is silly. Don't worry about what other people want to build. If you want to build one, great. If you don't, that's great too. Nerfing a building like that makes no sense.
Even if you nerd it, people are going yo get around it. It's a sandbox game. To truly do anything you would have to change so much that it would be too much effort for nothing.
Also, we don't need yet another thread about this. The first one should have died.
They're imbalanced in comparison to the rest of the game, and they don't work as a mechanic.
The first one should have died? So you're fine with not giving a place for people to voice their opinion and share valid arguments. Dang it, I forgot! That's exactly what forums are for. Maybe you should be reminded of that.[/quote]
I'm completely fine with people voicing opinions. I just thing that the issue seemed to gather more discussion than it should have. I might not see the problem as others do, but to me it seemed bigger than it should have.
I'm currently building a mob spawned primarily for sulphur so I can have more TNT and experiment with it. I can see what you mean when it's compared to the rest of the game, but TNT has few uses to begin with. I also like the sight of those monolithic monument that I built that serves a function besides looking impressive. That is my case, I don't know about others.
I didn't mean to start another discussion. I foolishly used inflamitory language in the title. Oops. Anyway the discussion is here (and everything has already been said). http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=161076&start=1170 I feel like the linked thread should have a cast list; it is such a production. glad to be a part of it.
This here thread is just a tribute. To a thread that actually spawned two joke threads the other night; and now a tribute thread. To the GREATEST THREAD IN THE WORLD.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bad design on the mug led to water and magma occasionally forming blockages. A catwalk allows access to fix these, in a recent cleaning attempt two legendary miners slipped on water on the catwalk and fell to their deaths in the obsidian mold.
-Mobs drop nothing when killed by the environment.
-Spawning algorithms that decrease spawn rate when an absurd amount of them die in a given area.
-Mobs that drop unique and helpful items when killed by the player and not the environment. -Better AI and pathfinding.
Genius.
Apparently, Minecraft used to have better AI, which meant a swarm of mobs walking through that one 2x1 hole left in your 100x100 base because they'd 'see' you through walls and then act accordingly. Not to mention ruining a good chunk of cactus and other simple traps.
But being able to check when something was lava'd or drowned needs to be the only changes really (perhaps not including those from a spawner perhaps? The drop rates are low enough as is to not be a suitable permanent source, combined with the lack of controlled spawning), as at the very least it just means pushing them to a hole then standing there with mouse 1 held with a diamond sword in hand hitting them through a foot-height 1x1 hole, a significant drop on farmability.
This is all supposed to help the game overall, eh? Hrm, not so much...
-Mobs drop nothing when killed by the environment. No, this would eliminate at least 75% of the stuff available to newbies early on (sunlight kills, etc.)
-Spawning algorithms that decrease spawn rate when an absurd amount of them die in a given area. This also hurts normal players. Killing mobs all the time near your base will make it artificially safe, making living there less exciting. It certainly doesn't HELP the game overall (??)
-Mobs that drop unique and helpful items when killed by the player and not the environment. Okay, this would be good overall.
-Mobs that can destroy blocks. This would be super controversial, and would make the game really suck for a lot of people's playstyles. Anybody building creative architecture, but also wanting the challenge of mobs is out of luck now. I.e., probably the huge majority of all players. If you make it an option in the menu, fine, but then it doesn't stop mob farms...
-Better AI and pathfinding. To make AI good enough to see around corners four chunks away (where the actual hazard of the trap is) would require making AI absurdly strong, which would make normal play way too hard.
-Changes to liquid physics. The only changes that would really matter for ALL mob traps would require making mobs or items not flow in water, which would definitely hurt the overall game. (no defensive moats, no vending machines, all sorts of cool stuff gone.)
-Lava burns signs. This would help overall (although not do much to stop mob farms)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
I like how most of the people, even the naysayers, posting here seem to support a rebalance of mob traps atleast, and yet the poll shows a wide mark towards leaving them alone.
Nice to see people don't read for **** and just click a poll for their free items~
In this thread, share your experience with mob farming. Is it a balanced game mechanic? Is it imbalanced? Please explain your choice in your post.
Note: This thread is not about if mob farms make Minecraft imbalanced. This thread is for discussing if mob farming itself is imbalanced when compared to alternative methods for gathering mob drops.
Note2: The poll, and it's results, are based on opinion. A poll based on facts is known as a quiz.XD
Realize that we are talking about pure game mechanics. We are not taking into consideration gameplay balance or how mob farms affect the game. It's kind of like pure mathematics.. it's not always applicable to everyday life and may not have a direct impact all the time, but that doesn't make it not exist.
We are not talking about game balance.
We don't care if it is acceptable or not.
We don't care if it is viewed as cheating or not.
We don't care if is viewed as wrong or not.
We don't care if you use them in your game or not.
We do not think it is wrong.
We do not think it is unacceptable.
We do not think it is bad.
An imbalanced mechanic can exist in a balanced game.
An imbalanced game mechanic can make a game balanced.
The value of the items is not a factor.
"We" being us who realize that mob farms are imbalanced in comparison to mob hunting.
Basically I think anything can be OPed if you take it far enough. I don't think Notch is worried about the game mechanics being affected by giant 64x64 mod traps people make.
If you mean any other sort of change, including changes to water or lava physics, damage immunity, nanny mods, selective item drop restrictions based on damage source, then no.
Automatic Mob-Proof Door made betta with the Beta (1.3)
Automatic Double Doors + GANGSTA RAP!!!
-Mobs drop nothing when killed by the environment.
-Spawning algorithms that decrease spawn rate when an absurd amount of them die in a given area.
-Mobs that drop unique and helpful items when killed by the player and not the environment.
-Mobs that can destroy blocks.
-Better AI and pathfinding.
-Changes to liquid physics.
-Lava burns signs.
There's plenty of alternatives that would benefit the game as a whole while fixing this exploit in the process.
Linking to a thread is as easy as copying the URL in your address bar, then using the URL tags (found at the top of the posting box. The code is
A better poll and topic title:
Title: Your stance on Mob Grinders
Poll: What is your stance on Mob Grinders? Please choose one of the following. If you choose 'Other', please post and explain:
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should stay.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should be removed.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Mob grinders should stay, but with modification.
[*:2g7fwkzk]They can stay or go, either way is fine.
[*:2g7fwkzk]Other (Please explain).
Even if you nerd it, people are going yo get around it. It's a sandbox game. To truly do anything you would have to change so much that it would be too much effort for nothing.
Also, we don't need yet another thread about this. The first one should have died.
No, none of that is to stop mob grinders.
Those are suggestions that will improve the game as a whole.
As a side effect, they'll stop mob grinders from being quite as imbalanced. So take it as you want.
They're imbalanced in comparison to the rest of the game, and they don't work as a mechanic.
The first one should have died? So you're fine with not giving a place for people to voice their opinion and share valid arguments. Dang it, I forgot! That's exactly what forums are for. Maybe you should be reminded of that.
Genius.
Additionally, now that we're getting solid numbers on people's opinions, I don't think we should remove something if the majority of people are fine with it the way it is.
They're imbalanced in comparison to the rest of the game, and they don't work as a mechanic.
The first one should have died? So you're fine with not giving a place for people to voice their opinion and share valid arguments. Dang it, I forgot! That's exactly what forums are for. Maybe you should be reminded of that.[/quote]
I'm completely fine with people voicing opinions. I just thing that the issue seemed to gather more discussion than it should have. I might not see the problem as others do, but to me it seemed bigger than it should have.
I'm currently building a mob spawned primarily for sulphur so I can have more TNT and experiment with it. I can see what you mean when it's compared to the rest of the game, but TNT has few uses to begin with. I also like the sight of those monolithic monument that I built that serves a function besides looking impressive. That is my case, I don't know about others.
This here thread is just a tribute. To a thread that actually spawned two joke threads the other night; and now a tribute thread. To the GREATEST THREAD IN THE WORLD.
Apparently, Minecraft used to have better AI, which meant a swarm of mobs walking through that one 2x1 hole left in your 100x100 base because they'd 'see' you through walls and then act accordingly. Not to mention ruining a good chunk of cactus and other simple traps.
But being able to check when something was lava'd or drowned needs to be the only changes really (perhaps not including those from a spawner perhaps? The drop rates are low enough as is to not be a suitable permanent source, combined with the lack of controlled spawning), as at the very least it just means pushing them to a hole then standing there with mouse 1 held with a diamond sword in hand hitting them through a foot-height 1x1 hole, a significant drop on farmability.
Nice to see people don't read for **** and just click a poll for their free items~